Thsi anti-LEO stuff is greeaaat.  "What if I don't do this?"  "What if I ..., What if he......blah, blah."

MOST LEOs don't wake up in the morning and say, "I'm going to be a dick to whomever is driving a blue Nissan Altima today.

Quoted: "mind if I look in your car" -"Sorry sir, I do not consent to unwarranted searches and seizures" "do you mind if I cuff you for my safety" - "yes sir, I do mind. As an upstanding American, I heavily value my freedom." Those few with heart enough to ask whether they are under arrest are often answered with a question: Why? Do you want to be? No. Then sit the fuck down. The correct response to "Why? Do you want to be?" is "You did not answer my question. Am I under arrest? If I am not I desire to leave now." That sharpens the point a little, but is still non-confrontational. The next round is to state that "Under the Constitution and Bill of Rights of the United States, I am free to leave unless I am being detained or under arrest. I desire to exercise those rights. I desire to leave now. May I leave?"

When I'm on the internet I'm the toughest guy in the world.

Quoted: When I'm on the internet I'm the toughest guy in the world.

Wanna fight?

Quoted: And I am just the opposite - the thought of having an armed individual walk up to my truck door while I am stuck seated give me the willies. I get out of my vehicle or off my scoot and am generally waiting, license and insurance card in hand, for the LEO vehicle to come to a stop and officer to get out. Just as there a good folks and bad same applies to law officers and I prefer to be "on my feet" lest the unthinkable occur. mike ps - and yes I have had a number of occassions where I have been ordered back into the vehicle - which I simply ignore, for "those" are the types I'm outta the vehicle and on my "feet" for.....

Wow.

If what you say is true and you haven't been arrested for resisting/obstructing, then you are one lucky SOB.  I would hook you up in a heartbeat if you "ignored" my lawful orders.

Life is hard.  Life is harder when you're stupid.

Good luck.

Quoted: Quoted: And I am just the opposite - the thought of having an armed individual walk up to my truck door while I am stuck seated give me the willies. I get out of my vehicle or off my scoot and am generally waiting, license and insurance card in hand, for the LEO vehicle to come to a stop and officer to get out. Just as there a good folks and bad same applies to law officers and I prefer to be "on my feet" lest the unthinkable occur. mike ps - and yes I have had a number of occassions where I have been ordered back into the vehicle - which I simply ignore, for "those" are the types I'm outta the vehicle and on my "feet" for..... Wow. If what you say is true and you haven't been arrested for resisting/obstructing, then you are one lucky SOB.  I would hook you up in a heartbeat if you "ignored" my lawful orders. Life is hard.  Life is harder when you're stupid. Good luck.

That isn't what I would worry about,

Step 1 order back to car
Step 2 repeat order in case it wasn't understood the first time
Step 3 Wanna guess? Rhymes with he "showed me his pun".

Quoted: You have to follow the instructions of the officer, yes. Where in the world do you even get the idea that any of your suggestions pass legal muster? Decide whether you are going to "accept" cuffs? Wow.

Exactly!!

This is "FREEDOM", remember?  Follow instructions without question.  The Forces of the State can do no wrong!  After all, they are doing YOU a favor by allowing you to live.

Our Founders would be proud!!

Quoted: Quoted: You have to follow the instructions of the officer, yes. Where in the world do you even get the idea that any of your suggestions pass legal muster? Decide whether you are going to "accept" cuffs? Wow. Exactly!! This is "FREEDOM", remember?  Follow instructions without question.  The Forces of the State can do no wrong!  After all, they are doing YOU a favor by allowing you to live. Our Founders would be proud!!

"Our Founders", believed in freedom not anarchy.

Think about that in the Constitution. Most of the doument deals with the organization, election, powers, limitations on power, and responsbility of the federal government. After they got through with that they tacked on some Amendments, commonly called the Bill of Rights.

Think about where their heads were at.

Quoted: [ Exactly!! This is "FREEDOM", remember?  Follow instructions without question.  The Forces of the State can do no wrong!  After all, they are doing YOU a favor by allowing you to live. Our Founders would be proud!!

Must be you are in favor of just letting the motorist do whatever they feel like doing.

Quoted: Also, reasonable suspicion does not grant the right to search. If you don't have a warrant, all searches/seizures are presumed to be unconstitutional, with  some exceptions. I'm interested to see how many can name them.

Exigent circumstances
Consent
Searches incident to arrest
Vehicles
Containers in vehicles

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: As far as I know, you pretty much have to do what they tell you to do.    However, it is true that you don't have to consent to a search.   That may be true, but unless I'm mistaken, they still have to have 2 or more reasons to search the vehicle. (Stains, strange smell, suspicious behavior, etc etc) That's correct.  If they can articulate probable cause for a search, then they are going to search regardless of consent.  If they really want to search that bad, they're going to find a way to do it.

While it is true that they must have probable cause in order to conduct a warrantless search of a vehicle (with some other reasons, such as search incident to arrest, or an inventory before towing), there is no such "two reasons" rule.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: And I am just the opposite - the thought of having an armed individual walk up to my truck door while I am stuck seated give me the willies. I get out of my vehicle or off my scoot and am generally waiting, license and insurance card in hand, for the LEO vehicle to come to a stop and officer to get out. Just as there a good folks and bad same applies to law officers and I prefer to be "on my feet" lest the unthinkable occur. mike ps - and yes I have had a number of occassions where I have been ordered back into the vehicle - which I simply ignore, for "those" are the types I'm outta the vehicle and on my "feet" for..... Wow. If what you say is true and you haven't been arrested for resisting/obstructing, then you are one lucky SOB.  I would hook you up in a heartbeat if you "ignored" my lawful orders. Life is hard.  Life is harder when you're stupid. Good luck. That isn't what I would worry about, Step 1 order back to car Step 2 repeat order in case it wasn't understood the first time Step 3 Wanna guess? Rhymes with he "showed me his pun".

This, and the third time it wouldn't be "get in the car" it would be "Face down, on the ground...do it now"

If he still doesn't comply with that you hold him at gunpoint until you get help, or if you can't wait for help you go up the use of force.  Taser/Baton/OC

Right

Quoted: Quoted: Also, reasonable suspicion does not grant the right to search. If you don't have a warrant, all searches/seizures are presumed to be unconstitutional, with  some exceptions. I'm interested to see how many can name them. Exigent circumstances Consent Searches incident to arrest Vehicles Containers in vehicles

Huh?  Please explain that one.   Unless you mean a search of the immediately accessible to the driver, part of the vehicle.

Yes, you have to get out of the car. The courts recognize the right of an officer to tell you to get out of the car for the safety of the officer. If you don't, then you go to jail for obstruction depending on his mood.

The logic: you may have a weapon, he may not want to stand in the road and get hit while writing you a ticket, he may think you are drunk and wants to see you get out, he may need to frisk you or your car.

Traffic stops are little dictatorships. But you can be as rude as you wish to be.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: And I am just the opposite - the thought of having an armed individual walk up to my truck door while I am stuck seated give me the willies. I get out of my vehicle or off my scoot and am generally waiting, license and insurance card in hand, for the LEO vehicle to come to a stop and officer to get out. Just as there a good folks and bad same applies to law officers and I prefer to be "on my feet" lest the unthinkable occur. mike ps - and yes I have had a number of occassions where I have been ordered back into the vehicle - which I simply ignore, for "those" are the types I'm outta the vehicle and on my "feet" for..... Wow. If what you say is true and you haven't been arrested for resisting/obstructing, then you are one lucky SOB.  I would hook you up in a heartbeat if you "ignored" my lawful orders. Life is hard.  Life is harder when you're stupid. Good luck. That isn't what I would worry about, Step 1 order back to car Step 2 repeat order in case it wasn't understood the first time Step 3 Wanna guess? Rhymes with he "showed me his pun". This, and the third time it wouldn't be "get in the car" it would be "Face down, on the ground...do it now" If he still doesn't comply with that you hold him at gunpoint until you get help, or if you can't wait for help you go up the use of force.  Taser/Baton/OC Right

I'm 54 years old and have done this since I was 16. I don't give a shit whether officers like it or not for under traffic stops, it's MY comfort level I'm concerned with not the officers.

Thankfully use of a firearm willy-nilly for a traffic ticket stop down here in Texas will get you a quick return to civilian life and anyone drawing his weapon on me for choosing to handle the traffic stop on my feet is exactly the type of person I want to be on my feet for. It is after all simply a traffic stop and as I was probably exceeding the speed limit and guilty I'm generally going to be quite contrite and always tend to treat officers with all the respect they deserve unless their attitude indicates they don't deserve any, (several of the comments above come close to this attitude BTW)

Ask me how I know this?

Seems around the age of 22, a local constable took offense to my high speed pass on the freeway while driving w/ his wife and another in her personal car - I mistook him for someone looking to race and proceeded to suck the headlights outta her Chevy.

When the bullets started flying was the first indication that I might have been dealing with some form of officer, even though I could not actually tell as he was seated behind the wheel, wearing a "white" shirt, I stopped, quickly I might add, received a notepad paper copy of around 3 charges and proceeded home. This constable lost his badge 22 hours later in the local JP court, which is where I became aware of the Texas laws governing officer conduct during traffic stops.

Note: I come from a family of racers, dad w/ the scoots, uncle w/ cars and boats and it didn't hurt that at the time I was considered a perpetual habitual violator thanks to the racing car I drove and my inherited lead foot, all of which meant I was on a first name basis with dang near every DPS officer in the county who seemed to respect the fact that although I didn't really have to stop; I always did, (my car at that time could always dust even the interceptors and they all knew the car and where I lived).

The standing rule for the DPS from local JP was no tickets for speeds under a 100 as the judge and dad were great friends and I went to school w/ his daughter. A rookie DPS officer once drug me down to court in cuffs for 155 in 55, but in the process he miffed the judge w/ his attitude and I received a $4.95 charge for the violation - seems the judge didn't want to cheat the state outta it's "tax" and wanted to teach the officer a lesson. (Welcome to Texas - the good ole-boy state)

Getting out of the vehicle is not a personal challenge to the officer, just my own personal choice; as it makes me more comfortable as noted and allows me to lock my vehicle so that I have to give my permission before having my car searched. We do have rights in this country don't cha know and just because someone choses to excercise those rights is no slight against an officer. I have never refused a search as I generally never have anything to hide, but expect to be treated with same respect I'm giving and not be treated like crimnal or nere-do-well.

mike

Quoted: Note: I come from a family of racers, dad w/ the scoots, uncle w/ cars and boats and it didn't hurt that at the time I was considered a perpetual habitual violator thanks to the racing car I drove and my inherited lead foot, all of which meant I was on a first name basis with dang near every DPS officer in the county who seemed to respect the fact that although I didn't really have to stop; I always did, (my car at that time could always dust even the interceptors and they all knew the car and where I lived). The standing rule for the DPS from local JP was no tickets for speeds under a 100 as the judge and dad were great friends and I went to school w/ his daughter. A rookie DPS officer once drug me down to court in cuffs for 155 in 55, but in the process he miffed the judge w/ his attitude and I received a $4.95 charge for the violation - seems the judge didn't want to cheat the state outta it's "tax" and wanted to teach the officer a lesson. (Welcome to Texas - the good ole-boy state) mike

It's funny that people are in favor of corruption and a kangaroo court, so long as the corruption is working out for them.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: And I am just the opposite - the thought of having an armed individual walk up to my truck door while I am stuck seated give me the willies. I get out of my vehicle or off my scoot and am generally waiting, license and insurance card in hand, for the LEO vehicle to come to a stop and officer to get out. Just as there a good folks and bad same applies to law officers and I prefer to be "on my feet" lest the unthinkable occur. mike ps - and yes I have had a number of occassions where I have been ordered back into the vehicle - which I simply ignore, for "those" are the types I'm outta the vehicle and on my "feet" for..... Wow. If what you say is true and you haven't been arrested for resisting/obstructing, then you are one lucky SOB.  I would hook you up in a heartbeat if you "ignored" my lawful orders. Life is hard.  Life is harder when you're stupid. Good luck. That isn't what I would worry about, Step 1 order back to car Step 2 repeat order in case it wasn't understood the first time Step 3 Wanna guess? Rhymes with he "showed me his pun". This, and the third time it wouldn't be "get in the car" it would be "Face down, on the ground...do it now" If he still doesn't comply with that you hold him at gunpoint until you get help, or if you can't wait for help you go up the use of force.  Taser/Baton/OC Right I'm 54 years old and have done this since I was 16. I don't give a shit whether officers like it or not for under traffic stops, it's MY comfort level I'm concerned with not the officers. Thankfully use of a firearm willy-nilly for a traffic ticket stop down here in Texas will get you a quick return to civilian life and anyone drawing his weapon on me for choosing to handle the traffic stop on my feet is exactly the type of person I want to be on my feet for. It is after all simply a traffic stop and as I was probably exceeding the speed limit and guilty I'm generally going to be quite contrite and always tend to treat officers with all the respect they deserve unless their attitude indicates they don't deserve any, (several of the comments above come close to this attitude BTW) Ask me how I know this? Seems around the age of 22, a local constable took offense to my high speed pass on the freeway while driving w/ his wife and another in her personal car - I mistook him for someone looking to race and proceeded to suck the headlights outta her Chevy. When the bullets started flying was the first indication that I might have been dealing with some form of officer, even though I could not actually tell as he was seated behind the wheel, wearing a "white" shirt, I stopped, quickly I might add, received a notepad paper copy of around 3 charges and proceeded home. This constable lost his badge 22 hours later in the local JP court, which is where I became aware of the Texas laws governing officer conduct during traffic stops. Note: I come from a family of racers, dad w/ the scoots, uncle w/ cars and boats and it didn't hurt that at the time I was considered a perpetual habitual violator thanks to the racing car I drove and my inherited lead foot, all of which meant I was on a first name basis with dang near every DPS officer in the county who seemed to respect the fact that although I didn't really have to stop; I always did, (my car at that time could always dust even the interceptors and they all knew the car and where I lived). The standing rule for the DPS from local JP was no tickets for speeds under a 100 as the judge and dad were great friends and I went to school w/ his daughter. A rookie DPS officer once drug me down to court in cuffs for 155 in 55, but in the process he miffed the judge w/ his attitude and I received a $4.95 charge for the violation - seems the judge didn't want to cheat the state outta it's "tax" and wanted to teach the officer a lesson. (Welcome to Texas - the good ole-boy state) Getting out of the vehicle is not a personal challenge to the officer, just my own personal choice; as it makes me more comfortable as noted and allows me to lock my vehicle so that I have to give my permission before having my car searched. We do have rights in this country don't cha know and just because someone choses to excercise those rights is no slight against an officer. I have never refused a search as I generally never have anything to hide, but expect to be treated with same respect I'm giving and not be treated like crimnal or nere-do-well. mike

If you refused to get back in your car; you'd be seated in a vehicle whether you wanted to or not. Of course, it would be my vehicle with cuffs on. I'd let you go if it was a simple traffic offense you were stopped for (IMO 155mph isnt a simple traffic offense) and tell you exactly why you were cuffed and placed in the patrol vehicle.

Quoted: Quoted: Note: I come from a family of racers, dad w/ the scoots, uncle w/ cars and boats and it didn't hurt that at the time I was considered a perpetual habitual violator thanks to the racing car I drove and my inherited lead foot, all of which meant I was on a first name basis with dang near every DPS officer in the county who seemed to respect the fact that although I didn't really have to stop; I always did, (my car at that time could always dust even the interceptors and they all knew the car and where I lived). The standing rule for the DPS from local JP was no tickets for speeds under a 100 as the judge and dad were great friends and I went to school w/ his daughter. A rookie DPS officer once drug me down to court in cuffs for 155 in 55, but in the process he miffed the judge w/ his attitude and I received a $4.95 charge for the violation - seems the judge didn't want to cheat the state outta it's "tax" and wanted to teach the officer a lesson. (Welcome to Texas - the good ole-boy state) mike It's funny that people are in favor of corruption and a kangaroo court, so long as the corruption is working out for them.

Isn't it lovely?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Also, reasonable suspicion does not grant the right to search. If you don't have a warrant, all searches/seizures are presumed to be unconstitutional, with  some exceptions. I'm interested to see how many can name them. Exigent circumstances Consent Searches incident to arrest Vehicles Containers in vehicles Huh?  Please explain that one.   Unless you mean a search of the immediately accessible to the driver, part of the vehicle.

You don't need a warrant to search a car as long as there in PC. It's known as the Carroll Doctrine.

Quoted: Quoted: Also, reasonable suspicion does not grant the right to search. If you don't have a warrant, all searches/seizures are presumed to be unconstitutional, with  some exceptions. I'm interested to see how many can name them. Exigent circumstances Consent Searches incident to arrest Vehicles Containers in vehicles Border search Open fields

"accept cuffs?"      

Sorry, I couldn't help it.

You know I used to hate the police. They "harrased" me every time I would go anywhere. Giving me tickets, pulling me and my friends out of the car and searching us and talking down to us. It just wasnt fair........Until one day I wised up and realized that I was out at all hours of the night, driving vehicles that looked suspicious and usually I and my friends had one or more types of illegal substances on us.
I was asking for it!
That was 18 years ago........Its amazing now when I run into a police officer he is nice and polite. The attitude you give within the first five seconds of a traffic stop sets the stage for the rest of the encounter.

Exit the car and yell really loud " DON'T TASE ME, BRO "

When they walk up to my car I like to say, " I'd like a Bigmac, large fries, and a coke".

Obey the law. No more, no less.

Any time a Gov't official can approach you while you're obeying the law and demand you do more than the law requires of you to satisfy his ego, you are being asked to make your God-given Constitutional rights subserviant to his Un-Constitutional, ill-assumed powers. In truth, when obeying the law is no longer a sure protection from those who enforce it, there is no rule of law. That is true anarchy.

Quoted: You have to follow the instructions of the officer, yes. Where in the world do you even get the idea that any of your suggestions pass legal muster? Decide whether you are going to "accept" cuffs? Wow.

i've had cops ask me this before.  "i'm going to cuff you for your and my safety, allright?"  

wasn't really stated like a question, though.

Quoted: Quoted: You have to follow the instructions of the officer, yes. Where in the world do you even get the idea that any of your suggestions pass legal muster? Decide whether you are going to "accept" cuffs? Wow. i've had cops ask me this before.  "i'm going to cuff you for your and my safety, allright?"   wasn't really stated like a question, though.

Out of curiosity, what were you doing at the time?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You have to follow the instructions of the officer, yes. Where in the world do you even get the idea that any of your suggestions pass legal muster? Decide whether you are going to "accept" cuffs? Wow. i've had cops ask me this before.  "i'm going to cuff you for your and my safety, allright?"   wasn't really stated like a question, though. Out of curiosity, what were you doing at the time?

long story but since you asked i'll condense it-  when i was a senior in highschool (1997), some 7th grader brought his grand pappy's shotgun to school and threatened a teacher with it.  school went on lockdown, eleventy billion cops from every jurisdiction immaginable were present.  this teacher must have been a hostage negotiator in a former life.  she got the kid to let all the students go, then talked him out of his gun about a half hour later.  

anywho,  at 2:30 that day, (seniors got out a half hour early) i was parked in my car across the street from school with some friends, waiting for the girlfriend, smoking and just generally trying to look as cool is  i knew i was.  the place was still crawling with cops, sherrifs, the FBI, federal marshalls, and 3 jurisdictions of swat teams.  unbeknownst to me, one of my friends who was with me had a cheesy crossman bb pistol, yoy know the one, profile just like a 1911, and from more than 10yards away you couldn't tell the diffrence.  anyway, he had this crossman in his truck, and with all the cops around (and k9 units checking cars in the parking lot)  my friend decided the best place for this crossman was not in his truck, but in his backpack which he had with him in my car.  someone saw him putting it into his pack.  

first, 2 unmarked cars blocked us in.  then, in a show of force i'm pretty sure hasn't been seen since the Germans camped out on normandy beach woke up on the morning of june 6 1944, the swat vans scream in out of nowhere an and spew out enought men and firepower to take Hati.  no less than 20 guys in body armor with handguns, ARs, MP5s, shotguns and i'm pretty sure at least 2 had some sort of man portable nuclear rockets.  loud speaker blaring "nobody move, all windows down, all hands out of windows."  they ordered each of us out of the car, 10 steps backward, lie on the ground, hands laced behind head.  then cuffed us. one at a time. this took probably 20 minutes, and i was the last one out, so by that time, my friend had already explained that it was just a bb gun.  and everythign was calmed down.  the cop that delt with me was very cool and polite.  explaining what he was doing every step of the way, saying stuff like "everything's allright.  i'm gonna put some cuffs on you, ok?  just for our saftey, your not under arrest or anything."  i wasn't about to object.

after that, they were all very cool.  nice even.  they shot the shit with us for awhile.  told my friend he could pick up his crossman at the station in an hour.  "fuck that" he said, "you can keep that fucking thing"

the best part of the whole story was, at the very instant i was being ordered to the ground, and an M-4 was jammed into my back.  the school bell want off and every kid in the school saw me getting "arrested" by about 400 cops with heavy artillery.

i was a god for the rest of the school year.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Also, reasonable suspicion does not grant the right to search. If you don't have a warrant, all searches/seizures are presumed to be unconstitutional, with  some exceptions. I'm interested to see how many can name them. Exigent circumstances Consent Searches incident to arrest Vehicles Containers in vehicles Border search Open fields

Thanks for adding those, I'm smacking myself in the head now that I realize I missed them.

Obey the Law!

NSFW

DON'T PULL OVER IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Just how often are you getting pulled over, and what are you doing that has them pulling you out of the vehicle?

Driving while black and driving while under the age of 25 are pretty common reasons.

I got searched because "we have reports of drug dealers living on this road."  This road being a state highway that crossed half the state.

Not locked yet?  Surpising

Once, a policeman waved me thru at an accident, and I refused. I just sat there, he cant tell me what to do!    

Quoted: Not locked yet?  Surpising Once, a policeman waved me thru at an accident, and I refused. I just sat there, he cant tell me what to do!

THAT is standing up for liberty. Kudos, sir. Kudos.

Quoted: long story but since you asked i'll condense it-  when i was a senior in highschool (1997), some 7th grader brought his grand pappy's shotgun to school and threatened a teacher with it.  school went on lockdown, eleventy billion cops from every jurisdiction immaginable were present.  this teacher must have been a hostage negotiator in a former life.  she got the kid to let all the students go, then talked him out of his gun about a half hour later.   anywho,  at 2:30 that day, (seniors got out a half hour early) i was parked in my car across the street from school with some friends, waiting for the girlfriend, smoking and just generally trying to look as cool is  i knew i was.  the place was still crawling with cops, sherrifs, the FBI, federal marshalls, and 3 jurisdictions of swat teams.  unbeknownst to me, one of my friends who was with me had a cheesy crossman bb pistol, yoy know the one, profile just like a 1911, and from more than 10yards away you couldn't tell the diffrence.  anyway, he had this crossman in his truck, and with all the cops around (and k9 units checking cars in the parking lot)  my friend decided the best place for this crossman was not in his truck, but in his backpack which he had with him in my car.  someone saw him putting it into his pack.   first, 2 unmarked cars blocked us in.  then, in a show of force i'm pretty sure hasn't been seen since the Germans camped out on normandy beach woke up on the morning of june 6 1944, the swat vans scream in out of nowhere an and spew out enought men and firepower to take Hati.  no less than 20 guys in body armor with handguns, ARs, MP5s, shotguns and i'm pretty sure at least 2 had some sort of man portable nuclear rockets.  loud speaker blaring "nobody move, all windows down, all hands out of windows."  they ordered each of us out of the car, 10 steps backward, lie on the ground, hands laced behind head.  then cuffed us. one at a time. this took probably 20 minutes, and i was the last one out, so by that time, my friend had already explained that it was just a bb gun.  and everythign was calmed down.  the cop that delt with me was very cool and polite.  explaining what he was doing every step of the way, saying stuff like "everything's allright.  i'm gonna put some cuffs on you, ok?  just for our saftey, your not under arrest or anything."  i wasn't about to object. after that, they were all very cool.  nice even.  they shot the shit with us for awhile.  told my friend he could pick up his crossman at the station in an hour.  "fuck that" he said, "you can keep that fucking thing" the best part of the whole story was, at the very instant i was being ordered to the ground, and an M-4 was jammed into my back.  the school bell want off and every kid in the school saw me getting "arrested" by about 400 cops with heavy artillery. i was a god for the rest of the school year.

I saw that, you were McLovin in Superbad, Right?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZjaCv-p_rI

Quoted: Quoted: You have to follow the instructions of the officer, yes. Where in the world do you even get the idea that any of your suggestions pass legal muster? Decide whether you are going to "accept" cuffs? Wow. i've had cops ask me this before.  "i'm going to cuff you for your and my safety, allright?"   wasn't really stated like a question, though.

Probably wasn't really a question.

If a LEO asks you step from your vehicle, things aren't going well. Don't get out if you were not asked to. That can get pretty messy as well.


In before you get tased.



ARE YOU DETAINING ME? I'M I UNDER ARREST? ZZZZZZZZTZTTZTTZTTTTTZTTTZTTT!!!!

I think the standard proceedure for you is to simply be polite and ask them if you have to obey. If they ask you to get out of the car, ask if you have to, they will say "yes". that constitutes an order and you are covered if anything goes to trial.

Same for searches. Simply say, "I do not give consent" but do not physically resist.

If they want to cuff you, ask if you are under arrest. If they say "no" state that you do not want to be cuffed, but do not resist physically.

If you are under arrest, then answer no more questions and state that you want to consult your attorney.

Quoted: Quoted: I not getting "pulled out of vehicle" Speeding, rolling stop, walking around at night, improper lane change. I have been asked to step out of vehicle only twice that I can recall, one time I was approached on foot. One time I almost got arrested for walking on the beach @ night when a robbery was committed.  But they polorided me & showed it to the homeowner & then just took me home.   Back in my misspent youth I got a metric shitload of various traffic tickets, and not once was I 'asked to step out of the vehicle'. I bet most peoples' experience mirrors my own, which means you might want to consider why it is that you are being asked to get out of the car...

I think it might have more to do w/ changing doctrine in LEO community.

Sometimes they will ask you to step outside of car while they stand back & watch if they have some reason to belive you might be drunk.

I have this job where I drive all over, if i don't fly, to work on computer equipment.  Often times, I also work and/or travel late at night.  One night I was driving into this rural LA town in the middle of the night.  It was kind of dark & I was unfamiliar with where i was going, & I was looking back & forth at the road & my GPS.  I over looked a one way sign.  

A cop say me & pulled me over. He asked me to step outside of my car while he was 30 ft back at his car door watching me.  He pobably though I may have been drunk.  I told him what I was doing & what I wrote above & he just ran my license & gave me some directions.  

He wasn't rude at all & I didn't mind that he pulled me over.  

Course, I wish I woun't had to get out of car b/c I had USP IWB & I didn't wan't to go there if I could help it.  

He never noticed.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I not getting "pulled out of vehicle" Speeding, rolling stop, walking around at night, improper lane change. I have been asked to step out of vehicle only twice that I can recall, one time I was approached on foot. One time I almost got arrested for walking on the beach @ night when a robbery was committed.  But they polorided me & showed it to the homeowner & then just took me home.   Back in my misspent youth I got a metric shitload of various traffic tickets, and not once was I 'asked to step out of the vehicle'. I bet most peoples' experience mirrors my own, which means you might want to consider why it is that you are being asked to get out of the car... I think it might have more to do w/ changing doctrine in LEO community. Sometimes they will ask you to step outside of car while they stand back & watch if they have some reason to belive you might be drunk. I have this job where I drive all over, if i don't fly, to work on computer equipment.  Often times, I also work and/or travel late at night.  One night I was driving into this rural LA town in the middle of the night.  It was kind of dark & I was unfamiliar with where i was going, & I was looking back & forth at the road & my GPS.  I over looked a one way sign.   A cop say me & pulled me over. He asked me to step outside of my car while he was 30 ft back at his car door watching me.  He pobably though I may have been drunk.  I told him what I was doing & what I wrote above & he just ran my license & gave me some directions.   He wasn't rude at all & I didn't mind that he pulled me over.   Course, I wish I woun't had to get out of car b/c I had USP IWB & I didn't wan't to go there if I could help it.   He never noticed.

Nope,  alot of departments in Louisiana train officers to have the driver walk to the front of the patrol car.  

Okay,
so it seems that you pretty much have to follow officer instruction about getting in or out of the car.  And, of course if you are the driver, you have to ID yourself & give license etc.  

For clarification, this only happened once after I told an oficer I had a hand gun in my glove box w/ my registration, once when I got pulled over in small town in LA at night going wrong way as described in earlier post, & once on I-75 in a big dragnet operation where they were walking K9 around every car that they pulled over.  

I've never had to step out of the car b/c there was an escalation of tensions or suspicion like you see on Cops.

I was cuffed once for when approached while I was walking around small town at night as teenager, once at I-75, & once when I almost got arrested but then was released for being at the beach during that robbery.  The first two times the officers seemed to me to ask very politely & it seemed like they were asking a question & not just stating an order very nicely.  Recalling that, it made me wonder whether or not I really had to take the cuffs.  If I was apparently asked today, I would say, "no thank you officer, I'd rather not.  If he asked again or rather told me I would simply say, "do I really have to unless I'm under arrest?  Am I under arrest?"  Then he would either answer my question, play games w/ me & ask me questions, or would simply tell me to put my hands behind my back or whatever, which I would at that point do & worry about whether he had the power to do that or not later.

I would like some more info about that Terry case???  Is that applicable nationally or only in a given state?

I realize that if you are under arrest, for sure he doesn't have to get your permission to cuff you.  

I've never been arrested.

Most cops I have dealt with have been reasonable, if curt, to down right friendly.  Only about 3 have pricks.  Saying a minority of cops I have dealt with have been pricks doesn't mean I have a chip on my shoulder agianst LEO.  In fact, I am seriously considering becoming one myself.

As to the guy who says he jumps out of his car & waits for the cop & refuses to get back in his car: I don't quite see how that is a good idea or is necessary to respect his own dignity & constitutionally protected God given rights.  It seems to me to necessarily place the LEO in an uncomfortable situation.  

As for people who say that we should answer all a LEO's questions, consent to any search etc with out at least asking ourselves if we should & if LEO should have the power to do X, I propose that you an ingrate to your Anglo-American patrimony.  And that also goes for people w/ some authority who expect a US citizen to be unthinkingly compliant & docile w/ them & who get offended if a subject considers his rights.

People who think that answering a LEO's questions, even when said person has nothing to hide, is in his best interest needs to watch This VIdeo.


Again, more info about the Terry hand cuffing case would be appreciated & also how that would apply to being detained in patrol car.

Thanks

Alright, so I watched that whole ACLU video linked on page 2 or 3.  

About getting approached on the street & asking for ID, apparently laws are in place & unchallenged in some states that require you to present ID when you are on foot.

I don't know what happens if you don't have ID and/or if you refuse to ID youself in those states.

Perhaps there is a list of those laws somewhere?

Course, w/ the national ID law act all this could be moot in the future...

Did some reading,
in many states, refusing to ID yourself &/or surrender you ID when on foot IF there is an investigation into a crime in the area is an offense itself that you can be arrested for.  

In the FAQ of that flex your rights site

It seems that you could beet the wrap if the LEO can't establish that he was investigating a crime at the time, but he can arrest you at the time, whether he should or not & later on you might have charges dismissed.

I might email them or the ACLU about handcuffs, being detained in cruiser.

Uhhhhgh!  I feel weird about asking the ACLU something.

"My name is (blank), and here is my identification."

"Yessir, right away."

"I do NOT consent to a search."

"I wish to have my attorney present before answering ANY other questions."

Period.

Outside life or death, you do what the cop says.

The time to fight is in court, NOT on the street.

YOU go by the book, and if a stupid cop does not, you hang him in COURT.

I LIKE cops that bend the rules, it just makes the paycheck easier, and much, MUCH sweeter to collect.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: As far as I know, you pretty much have to do what they tell you to do.    However, it is true that you don't have to consent to a search.   That may be true, but unless I'm mistaken, they still have to have 2 or more reasons to search the vehicle. (Stains, strange smell, suspicious behavior, etc etc) That's correct.  If they can articulate probable cause for a search, then they are going to search regardless of consent.  If they really want to search that bad, they're going to find a way to do it.

That doesn't mean their "I want to search really bad" probable cause will hold up in court.

Quoted: Just how often are you getting pulled over, and what are you doing that has them pulling you out of the vehicle? Driving while black and driving while under the age of 25 are pretty common reasons. I got searched because "we have reports of drug dealers living on this road."  This road being a state highway that crossed half the state.

Oh come on. Most of the time we don't know the race or the age of the drivers sharing the road with us. The whole "driving while Black" excuse for why minorities get stopped is BS.

Refusing a search is one thing.

Refusing to get out of the car and talk to the officer face to face is just kinda fuckin stupid.

In Ohio, you must exit the car at the request of the officer.  He can have any reason to ask, or no reason.