Any 1911 experts here ??? Found a possible treasure... ***BIG PICS*** (UPDATE PAGE 4) - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Any 1911 experts here ??? Found a possible treasure... ***BIG PICS*** (UPDATE PAGE 4) (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 8/17/2005 5:45:06 PM EDT

[#1]

I must have seen at least 300 different 1911A1's in this condition in my life, and the really funny thing isd that almost none of them are "correct" according to the "collectors". These guns were assembled from whatever the Hell parts were available at the moment, and shipped God Knows Where as fast as possible. Many went thru Arsenal refinishing later and were torn apart, then reassembled with different parts. They are all good guns.

Take the deal your buddy offers...he has no idea what he has, nor does he care, most likely. The $2000 figures are inflated, but the $800-1200 probably are not...sigh...a shame, since I can remember when they could be had for under $100. (of course, it may as well have been $1000 at the time, given MY bank account!)

Posted: 8/17/2005 5:46:22 PM EDT

[#2]

I had a very similar one I sold for $400. It was good in every way, but one side of the slide was deeply pitted. Of course, your example should go for slightly more.

Posted: 8/17/2005 5:49:56 PM EDT

[#3]

I agree about the mainspring housing not being correct. It should have a checkered pattern. not the vertical line pattern. The barrel is not correct also. It should not be marked with the match designation.

Posted: 8/17/2005 5:55:02 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
I must have seen at least 300 different 1911A1's in this condition in my life, and the really funny thing isd that almost none of them are "correct" according to the "collectors". These guns were assembled from whatever the Hell parts were available at the moment, and shipped God Knows Where as fast as possible. Many went thru Arsenal refinishing later and were torn apart, then reassembled with different parts. They are all good guns.

Take the deal your buddy offers...he has no idea what he has, nor does he care, most likely. The $2000 figures are inflated, but the $800-1200 probably are not...sigh...a shame, since I can remember when they could be had for under $100. (of course, it may as well have been $1000 at the time, given MY bank account!)

Collectors differentiate original correct guns, which are just the way they were when they left the factory, from guns that have been "arsenal rebuilt", which got worn out and then rebuilt and have have a bunch of mis-match parts. An arsenal rebuilt gun is a correct gun for the military, but it's a far sight from being the correct gun that left the Colt (or whoever) factory. True factory correct guns that are still in factory original condition are worth 2-3 times more than arsenal rebuilt guns.

For example, the 1911A1 I posted in the 1st page of this thread is a all factory correct Colt 1911A1, including the magazine. That gun would easily bring $1800-$2000.

Posted: 8/17/2005 5:55:41 PM EDT

[#5]

On the right side of the gun, at the upper rear of the grip panel there is a proof mark of some kind...
Very light and hard to see...

Any idea what THAT is ???

Posted: 8/17/2005 6:01:26 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
On the right side of the gun, at the upper rear of the grip panel there is a proof mark of some kind...
Very light and hard to see...

Any idea what THAT is ???

crossed cannons inspection mark. Should be AFTER the finish if original finish, usually very lightly struck.

Posted: 8/17/2005 6:16:32 PM EDT

[#7]

Here's a better pic of it...

Really was hard to capture with the camera...

Posted: 8/17/2005 6:18:07 PM EDT

[#8]

Yup, ordinance inspection mark crossed cannons.

Posted: 8/17/2005 6:29:45 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
After a closer look at that slide stop I am pretty sure its not correct. SHould look like this one...

CH

The slide stop definitely looks out of place... Everything else on the gun is parked, dirty and worn.
It's so dirty, the slide won't close without a little push...

I'm pretty sure the gun is otherwise genuine...

I think I can buy it for $400 or $500.... At least those are some numbers my buddy mentioned when he left it with me...

Just not sure if I'll be able to sleep at night if I buy it that cheap...

If my buddy had said he would take $400-$500 for it he would have took the 5 Benjamins with him when he left!

Just in case the gun was lost in a terrible boating accident!

BigDozer66

Posted: 8/17/2005 6:34:11 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
I must have seen at least 300 different 1911A1's in this condition in my life, and the really funny thing isd that almost none of them are "correct" according to the "collectors". These guns were assembled from whatever the Hell parts were available at the moment, and shipped God Knows Where as fast as possible. Many went thru Arsenal refinishing later and were torn apart, then reassembled with different parts. They are all good guns.

Take the deal your buddy offers...he has no idea what he has, nor does he care, most likely. The $2000 figures are inflated, but the $800-1200 probably are not...sigh...a shame, since I can remember when they could be had for under $100. (of course, it may as well have been $1000 at the time, given MY bank account!)

Correct and original are 2 different terms.

How many serrations does the MSH have? Is it 7 or 8?

If 7, it is a Colt MSH, if 8, it's a Remington Rand.

Is has been refinished, because the Ord mark is filled in, from what I can see in the last pic above

Is that a peen mark or a HOLE in the rear sight? If it is a holeas as made by a drill bit , I wonder WTH they were doing.....

Posted: 8/17/2005 6:41:19 PM EDT

[#11]

My ex Father in Law bought one mailorder for $17 out of the NRA magazine.

Posted: 8/17/2005 6:46:11 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
How many serrations does the MSH have? Is it 7 or 8?
If 7, it is a Colt MSH, if 8, it's a Remington Rand.

Well....There are 8 "cuts" and 7 "serrations", if that makes any sense...

Quoted:
Is that a peen mark or a HOLE in the rear sight? If it is a holeas as made by a drill bit , I wonder WTH they were doing.....

Def is a peen mark...
I too suspect it has been refinished at some time in the last 60 years... It's really smooth all over, as if it was sanded with a very fine grit paper. It's "buttery" smooth if that makes sense.... None of the stamped areas have any raised metal around the edges of the numbers or letters like you would expect from a punch striking steel. It's perfectly flat. The more I look at it, the more I think it would make a nice carry piece...There ain't a sharp edge anywhere on the gun...

Posted: 8/17/2005 7:01:55 PM EDT

[#13]

Very nice 1911 esp for $ 500. GI 1911's are very hard to come by in my parts especially with Holbrook and his 45 magnet cruising around ! That one would easily be around $ 800 around here.

This is a RIA 1950's rebuild I bought receantly, RIA mark is just low left of serial #. I paid more than $ 500 for it ! US&S frame / Ithaca slide.

Posted: 8/17/2005 7:08:09 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Very nice 1911 esp for $ 500. GI 1911's are very hard to come by in my parts especially with Holbrook and his 45 magnet cruising around ! That one would easily be around $ 800 around here.

This is a RIA 1950's rebuild I bought receantly, RIA mark is just low left of serial #. I paid more than $ 500 for it ! US&S frame / Ithaca slide.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v73/tangeant/100_1028.jpg

I have a US&S frame RR slide one. I gotta wonder if the US&S slides were crappy and cracked more easily as there are a LOT of other slides on them. I know only 55 K were made but the slides are definately much harder to find then the frames.

Posted: 8/17/2005 7:27:59 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Very nice 1911 esp for $ 500. GI 1911's are very hard to come by in my parts especially with Holbrook and his 45 magnet cruising around ! That one would easily be around $ 800 around here.

This is a RIA 1950's rebuild I bought receantly, RIA mark is just low left of serial #. I paid more than $ 500 for it ! US&S frame / Ithaca slide.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v73/tangeant/100_1028.jpg

I have a US&S frame RR slide one. I gotta wonder if the US&S slides were crappy and cracked more easily as there are a LOT of other slides on them. I know only 55 K were made but the slides are definately much harder to find then the frames.

They are around just as ya say not many made and US&S probably didn't have a contract to provide/produce spare parts ( slides ) like RR/Ithaca and Colt, that and during rebuild they didn't really bother to keep them "correct ". I have seen atleast one military rebuilt 45 a Remington Rand with a US&S slide in a weapons room.

Posted: 8/17/2005 7:41:20 PM EDT

[#16]

Yeah, true about the spares issue. I have 4 correct ones and 3 of those were just plain luck. My best is a 100% 1945 RR that is perfect. Very late war and I doubt if it ever was shot. I know the DCM released some in the 50s unused and I think this is one of them. In my area I doubt I will ever see another in as good condition. Also have a 45 Ithica with release and shipping papers from Red River Arsenal $17.50........$5.50 of that was shipping. How many would you buy at that price?

Posted: 8/17/2005 7:48:07 PM EDT

[#17]

Wow its got my grandpas initials on it.

Posted: 8/18/2005 4:07:03 AM EDT

[#18]

Here's a National Match my Dad bought in 1964 for $84.70.

Posted: 8/18/2005 4:09:09 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Yeah, true about the spares issue. I have 4 correct ones and 3 of those were just plain luck. My best is a 100% 1945 RR that is perfect. Very late war and I doubt if it ever was shot. I know the DCM released some in the 50s unused and I think this is one of them. In my area I doubt I will ever see another in as good condition. Also have a 45 Ithica with release and shipping papers from Red River Arsenal $17.50........$5.50 of that was shipping. How many would you buy at that price?

Even I would buy one (maybe two) at that price.

Posted: 8/18/2005 6:24:47 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
How many serrations does the MSH have? Is it 7 or 8?
If 7, it is a Colt MSH, if 8, it's a Remington Rand.

Well....There are 8 "cuts" and 7 "serrations", if that makes any sense...

Okay, then you have a Colt MSH.

Seems like you have a good base gun there (with the exception of the barrel).

IF you can get it for $500, that would be a good starting point.

Posted: 8/18/2005 6:51:20 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

They are around just as ya say not many made and US&S probably didn't have a contract to provide/produce spare parts ( slides ) like RR/Ithaca and Colt, that and during rebuild they didn't really bother to keep them "correct ". I have seen atleast one military rebuilt 45 a Remington Rand with a US&S slide in a weapons room.

There seem to be a lot of those mis-matched 1911's out there.

I've got a USGI 1911A1 with a RR frame and Colt slide. Not a collector's piece, but I still consider it an "original" and it's my favorite (and most accurate/reliable) 1911A1 I own.

Posted: 8/18/2005 6:56:19 AM EDT

[#22]

Wow, what kind of Kimber is that?

Posted: 8/18/2005 8:17:22 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Quoted:

They are around just as ya say not many made and US&S probably didn't have a contract to provide/produce spare parts ( slides ) like RR/Ithaca and Colt, that and during rebuild they didn't really bother to keep them "correct ". I have seen atleast one military rebuilt 45 a Remington Rand with a US&S slide in a weapons room.

There seem to be a lot of those mis-matched 1911's out there.

I've got a USGI 1911A1 with a RR frame and Colt slide. Not a collector's piece, but I still consider it an "original" and it's my favorite (and most accurate/reliable) 1911A1 I own.

I think the reason you see so many mis-matched arsenal rebuilds is because the Army didn't order any 1911's after WWII and they used the inventory they had on-hand for like 40 more years. The result was most guns got worn out and rebuilt, several times. WWII Vet bring-back guns will have the highest odds of being matched and correct.

Posted: 8/18/2005 2:29:13 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Here's a National Match my Dad bought in 1964 for $84.70.

quote]

Nice $ 85 was alot of money in 1964 ! Wonder what $ 800 prices today are going to be like in 2050 !

Your NM frame is is pretty close to mine serial wise. only 530 higher, probably made within a day of each other.

Posted: 8/18/2005 2:37:14 PM EDT

[#25]

It's junk, tell him I will take it off his hands for $50.
Really
I swear.

Posted: 8/18/2005 2:40:54 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
A buddy of mine stopped in today and left this with me. He's not sure what it's worth and neither am I...
I'd like to buy it from him for a fair price. If it's "worth too much", then I'll just put it in the EE for him.

Here's a couple pics...

home.comcast.net/~yullose001/mikes1911.JPG

It's an FNC.