An open letter to Hobby Lobby and other businesses that object to Obamacare on moral grounds - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - An open letter to Hobby Lobby and other businesses that object to Obamacare on moral grounds (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 11/20/2012 1:29:16 PM EDT

[#1]

This thread is pants on head retarded. Mom made me eat all my dinner before dessert, and I didn't like it. I lost the appeal to dad so now ill just stop eating. That'll show them. OP has either gotten his way his whole life or doesn't believe in a damn thing with this kind of failed logic. Otherwise its do as I say and not as I do. All this thread needs is a Twinkies reference and a white house poll to top it off.

Posted: 11/20/2012 1:30:39 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Translation:

If you don't agree with me shut your mouth or just go away, I don't care which.

I think the OP is articulating his point poorly, but I agree with it in that if your moral objections to abortive or procreative treatments mean that they're violating your religious beliefs to such a degree, then continued operation (under force of law) equals you knowingly giving abortive care or whatever to your employees - and that the life that's so sacred has taken a back seat to the continued operation ($$) of your business.

If it's saving lives, and you truly believe that (which is fine, btw), then don't continue to operate and allow lives to be taken.

In an extreme example but imagine this - if you believe strongly that the death penalty is wrong, unconscionable, but your business is hooking up electric chairs for the state - it's not unreasonable to object by finding another line of work rather than having a direct hand in the moral choice you find to be so wrong.

Hobby Lobby should take their marbles and go home if they feel providing these services against their will amounts to murder, or aren't they taking some small part in these murders?

It's an honest criticism.

Yes. Next time I'm going to just email you my inane ramblings and ask you to send me a cogent idea back.

Thank you Swingset.

CVN

Posted: 11/20/2012 1:30:59 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Translation:

If you don't agree with me shut your mouth or just go away, I don't care which.

I think the OP is articulating his point poorly, but I agree with it in that if your moral objections to abortive or procreative treatments mean that they're violating your religious beliefs to such a degree, then continued operation (under force of law) equals you knowingly giving abortive care or whatever to your employees - and that the life that's so sacred has taken a back seat to the continued operation ($$) of your business.

If it's saving lives, and you truly believe that (which is fine, btw), then don't continue to operate and allow lives to be taken.

In an extreme example but imagine this - if you believe strongly that the death penalty is wrong, unconscionable, but your business is hooking up electric chairs for the state - it's not unreasonable to object by finding another line of work rather than having a direct hand in the moral choice you find to be so wrong.

Hobby Lobby should take their marbles and go home if they feel providing these services against their will amounts to murder, or aren't they taking some small part in these murders?

It's an honest criticism.

You can't change the game by not playing.

Posted: 11/20/2012 1:35:10 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Just cut everyone's hours to 29 per week and and provide no health care. It's the new business model spreading around the country.

That's exactly what I would do - refer all employees' questions to the monkey-eared Kenyan.

Posted: 11/20/2012 1:36:11 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Translation:

If you don't agree with me shut your mouth or just go away, I don't care which.

I think the OP is articulating his point poorly, but I agree with it in that if your moral objections to abortive or procreative treatments mean that they're violating your religious beliefs to such a degree, then continued operation (under force of law) equals you knowingly giving abortive care or whatever to your employees - and that the life that's so sacred has taken a back seat to the continued operation ($$) of your business.

If it's saving lives, and you truly believe that (which is fine, btw), then don't continue to operate and allow lives to be taken.

In an extreme example but imagine this - if you believe strongly that the death penalty is wrong, unconscionable, but your business is hooking up electric chairs for the state - it's not unreasonable to object by finding another line of work rather than having a direct hand in the moral choice you find to be so wrong.

Hobby Lobby should take their marbles and go home if they feel providing these services against their will amounts to murder, or aren't they taking some small part in these murders?

It's an honest criticism.

You can't change the game by not playing.

If you believe the game is rigged, and un-winnable, would you continue to play?

CVN

Posted: 11/20/2012 1:36:50 PM EDT

[#6]

Depends on how much money I have AND how much I want to blow on lawyers for this type of thing......

Lets say Im the hobby lobby guy and I truly believe in my moral position on the matter and have.........enough money to burn in the courts for years.

If I wanted to stay open I would refuse to carry health insurance, I would THEN refuse to pay the fine......I would make the govt wait as many years as possible to get a red cent out of my company , then , I would pay the fine and shut the company doors.

Or, he could really be a man of conviction and go to jail rather than pay a blood fine.

Fuck John Roberts

Posted: 11/20/2012 1:38:38 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Translation:

If you don't agree with me shut your mouth or just go away, I don't care which.

I think the OP is articulating his point poorly, but I agree with it in that if your moral objections to abortive or procreative treatments mean that they're violating your religious beliefs to such a degree, then continued operation (under force of law) equals you knowingly giving abortive care or whatever to your employees - and that the life that's so sacred has taken a back seat to the continued operation ($$) of your business.

If it's saving lives, and you truly believe that (which is fine, btw), then don't continue to operate and allow lives to be taken.

In an extreme example but imagine this - if you believe strongly that the death penalty is wrong, unconscionable, but your business is hooking up electric chairs for the state - it's not unreasonable to object by finding another line of work rather than having a direct hand in the moral choice you find to be so wrong.

Hobby Lobby should take their marbles and go home if they feel providing these services against their will amounts to murder, or aren't they taking some small part in these murders?

It's an honest criticism.

You can't change the game by not playing.

Yes, yes you can. Imagine most of the companies in America say fuck you Hussein were not fucking doing it , and we will shut our doors tomorrow.

Who would win then?? It sure as fuck would be Hussein.

Posted: 11/20/2012 1:46:26 PM EDT

[#8]

I just got home from work. OP, next time put a link to an article that explains WTF you are ranting about. Yeah, I could Google it but its your responsibility to supply info of the topic at hand. I got the gist from the replies, but a link to an article would have been nice and saved some time.

Thank you.

Posted: 11/20/2012 1:50:18 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

I just got home from work. OP, next time put a link to an article that explains WTF you are ranting about. Yeah, I could Google it but its your responsibility to supply info of the topic at hand. I got the gist from the replies, but a link to an article would have been nice and saved some time.

Thank you.

You want some fries with that too?

;)

CVN

Posted: 11/20/2012 1:57:39 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Translation:

If you don't agree with me shut your mouth or just go away, I don't care which.

I think the OP is articulating his point poorly, but I agree with it in that if your moral objections to abortive or procreative treatments mean that they're violating your religious beliefs to such a degree, then continued operation (under force of law) equals you knowingly giving abortive care or whatever to your employees - and that the life that's so sacred has taken a back seat to the continued operation ($$) of your business.

If it's saving lives, and you truly believe that (which is fine, btw), then don't continue to operate and allow lives to be taken.

In an extreme example but imagine this - if you believe strongly that the death penalty is wrong, unconscionable, but your business is hooking up electric chairs for the state - it's not unreasonable to object by finding another line of work rather than having a direct hand in the moral choice you find to be so wrong.

Hobby Lobby should take their marbles and go home if they feel providing these services against their will amounts to murder, or aren't they taking some small part in these murders?

It's an honest criticism.

You can't change the game by not playing.

So if your opposition to what you think is murder is lost, and you're forced to fund that murder, how exactly do you change the game by continuing to operate and fund murder?

Wouldn't be a much more effective statement to simply say "No", and shut your doors? I think that's the whole argument.

Posted: 11/20/2012 2:00:00 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I urge you, if you TRULY believe that your conscience is being violated by Obama care, and are not just grandstanding to make some stupid political statement and look like a braying ass, if you truly do believe that all life is sacred and are willing to put your pro-life money where your mouth is, then I urge you to do the following:

Close your doors. Yep, you heard me, close your doors, shut it down, wind things up, and walk away. Don't sell your assets to someone else. Don't transfer the business. Just shut it down and walk away.

If you're not willing to put it all on the line for what you truly believe, then you're doing nothing but making an ass of yourself.

Grow a pair, and walk away, knowing your conscience is clear.

CVN

I agree.

I don't - I think you're full of shit. It isn't the American Way to just roll over and throw in the towel when confronted with evil. That proves nothing and just hands the opposition a victory.

So, OP - I gather you're not a right-to-lifer ... that's okay, I guess. But what I read into your post is a childish wish to see those who do value life go out of business and cease to exist, and that's as fucked up as Obamacare itself.

The owner of Hobby Lobby recently lost a lawsuit trying to opt out of Obamacare due to religious reasons. I'm ok with that. What I'm saying is, if he is true to his convictions, he will simply shut it down otherwise, there's a point where the dollar bills eclipse his convictions.

If he feels as if he is being forced to do something against his will under penalty of law, then he needs to simply walk away.

Is he a man of principle, or is he a man of dollars?

CVN

Going to court for a redress of grievances for violation of his 1A rights is now not allowed. Truly, The Republic is lost.

Guess that when the SCOTUS is stacked with Maoists and your 2A rights are held to be invalid, you're going to 'turn'em in'?

My suggestion is that Hobby Lobby complies with the law by adopting an insurance policy where there is a $1,000,000 deductible on contraceptives and termination of pregnancy procedures. They have complied with the law and will send a message to 0bama that there are ways to resist the stupidity.

Posted: 11/20/2012 2:02:27 PM EDT

[#12]

I wouldn't shut my doors. I would quit offering insurance and employees would have to get their own healthcare. Sorry, but elections have consequences.

Posted: 11/20/2012 2:04:02 PM EDT

[#13]

I think he should exercise HIS standards as he sees fit, rather than give in to YOUR standards. Allowing his life to be controlled by you would be hypocritical. Ego much?

Posted: 11/20/2012 2:05:12 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Is it too late for some of your mothers to take that pill?

This. You guys know about the constitution, right?

Posted: 11/20/2012 2:06:20 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Translation:

If you don't agree with me shut your mouth or just go away, I don't care which.

I think the OP is articulating his point poorly, but I agree with it in that if your moral objections to abortive or procreative treatments mean that they're violating your religious beliefs to such a degree, then continued operation (under force of law) equals you knowingly giving abortive care or whatever to your employees - and that the life that's so sacred has taken a back seat to the continued operation ($$) of your business.

If it's saving lives, and you truly believe that (which is fine, btw), then don't continue to operate and allow lives to be taken.

In an extreme example but imagine this - if you believe strongly that the death penalty is wrong, unconscionable, but your business is hooking up electric chairs for the state - it's not unreasonable to object by finding another line of work rather than having a direct hand in the moral choice you find to be so wrong.

Hobby Lobby should take their marbles and go home if they feel providing these services against their will amounts to murder, or aren't they taking some small part in these murders?

It's an honest criticism.

You can't change the game by not playing.

So if your opposition to what you think is murder is lost, and you're forced to fund that murder, how exactly do you change the game by continuing to operate and fund murder?

Wouldn't be a much more effective statement to simply say "No", and shut your doors? I think that's the whole argument.

Are you serious?????

The correct answer, the AMERICAN answer, is to continue operating your business and NOT pay into Obamacare. Make the bastards shut you down, but until then, you operate at the direction of your own moral compass. Government does not equal God. If EVERY business did this, it would send a huge message to the elitist ruling class in that cesspool back in DC.

ETA: In my fantasy scenario, when the Feds (or whoever) some to shut you down, greet them with a freaking gun in hand.

Posted: 11/20/2012 2:07:39 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I urge you, if you TRULY believe that your conscience is being violated by Obama care, and are not just grandstanding to make some stupid political statement and look like a braying ass, if you truly do believe that all life is sacred and are willing to put your pro-life money where your mouth is, then I urge you to do the following:

Close your doors. Yep, you heard me, close your doors, shut it down, wind things up, and walk away. Don't sell your assets to someone else. Don't transfer the business. Just shut it down and walk away.

If you're not willing to put it all on the line for what you truly believe, then you're doing nothing but making an ass of yourself.

Grow a pair, and walk away, knowing your conscience is clear.

CVN

I agree.

you agree, while proclaiming individual rights in your avatar?

Posted: 11/20/2012 2:11:27 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I urge you, if you TRULY believe that your conscience is being violated by Obama care, and are not just grandstanding to make some stupid political statement and look like a braying ass, if you truly do believe that all life is sacred and are willing to put your pro-life money where your mouth is, then I urge you to do the following:

Close your doors. Yep, you heard me, close your doors, shut it down, wind things up, and walk away. Don't sell your assets to someone else. Don't transfer the business. Just shut it down and walk away.

If you're not willing to put it all on the line for what you truly believe, then you're doing nothing but making an ass of yourself.

Grow a pair, and walk away, knowing your conscience is clear.

CVN

I agree.

I don't - I think you're full of shit. It isn't the American Way to just roll over and throw in the towel when confronted with evil. That proves nothing and just hands the opposition a victory.

So, OP - I gather you're not a right-to-lifer ... that's okay, I guess. But what I read into your post is a childish wish to see those who do value life go out of business and cease to exist, and that's as fucked up as Obamacare itself.

The owner of Hobby Lobby recently lost a lawsuit trying to opt out of Obamacare due to religious reasons. I'm ok with that. What I'm saying is, if he is true to his convictions, he will simply shut it down otherwise, there's a point where the dollar bills eclipse his convictions.

If he feels as if he is being forced to do something against his will under penalty of law, then he needs to simply walk away.

Is he a man of principle, or is he a man of dollars?

CVN

so a man with a consious should walk off his job destroying the jobs, possibly lives of 1000's if employees, yeah. that'll show em...
Sounds like an Obama Jobs Plan..

Posted: 11/20/2012 2:12:21 PM EDT

[#18]

This line of thought reminds me a lot of some of the suicide threads posted here over the years.

She doesn't love me! so I'll kill myself!

Yeah.. that'll help.

Posted: 11/20/2012 2:14:36 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Translation:

If you don't agree with me shut your mouth or just go away, I don't care which.

I think the OP is articulating his point poorly, but I agree with it in that if your moral objections to abortive or procreative treatments mean that they're violating your religious beliefs to such a degree, then continued operation (under force of law) equals you knowingly giving abortive care or whatever to your employees - and that the life that's so sacred has taken a back seat to the continued operation ($$) of your business.

If it's saving lives, and you truly believe that (which is fine, btw), then don't continue to operate and allow lives to be taken.

In an extreme example but imagine this - if you believe strongly that the death penalty is wrong, unconscionable, but your business is hooking up electric chairs for the state - it's not unreasonable to object by finding another line of work rather than having a direct hand in the moral choice you find to be so wrong.

Hobby Lobby should take their marbles and go home if they feel providing these services against their will amounts to murder, or aren't they taking some small part in these murders?

It's an honest criticism.

You can't change the game by not playing.

If you believe the game is rigged, and un-winnable, would you continue to play?

CVN

That's life, bro.

Posted: 11/20/2012 2:15:38 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Translation:

If you don't agree with me shut your mouth or just go away, I don't care which.

I think the OP is articulating his point poorly, but I agree with it in that if your moral objections to abortive or procreative treatments mean that they're violating your religious beliefs to such a degree, then continued operation (under force of law) equals you knowingly giving abortive care or whatever to your employees - and that the life that's so sacred has taken a back seat to the continued operation ($$) of your business.

If it's saving lives, and you truly believe that (which is fine, btw), then don't continue to operate and allow lives to be taken.

In an extreme example but imagine this - if you believe strongly that the death penalty is wrong, unconscionable, but your business is hooking up electric chairs for the state - it's not unreasonable to object by finding another line of work rather than having a direct hand in the moral choice you find to be so wrong.

Hobby Lobby should take their marbles and go home if they feel providing these services against their will amounts to murder, or aren't they taking some small part in these murders?

It's an honest criticism.

You can't change the game by not playing.

If you believe the game is rigged, and un-winnable, would you continue to play?

CVN

What game are you playing? The "run a business to make a living" game or the "throw everything away in a useless attempt to make a point" game. What about the moral consequences of putting your employees out of work? Is your point worth that?

Posted: 11/20/2012 2:17:07 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Translation:

If you don't agree with me shut your mouth or just go away, I don't care which.

I think the OP is articulating his point poorly, but I agree with it in that if your moral objections to abortive or procreative treatments mean that they're violating your religious beliefs to such a degree, then continued operation (under force of law) equals you knowingly giving abortive care or whatever to your employees - and that the life that's so sacred has taken a back seat to the continued operation ($$) of your business.

If it's saving lives, and you truly believe that (which is fine, btw), then don't continue to operate and allow lives to be taken.

In an extreme example but imagine this - if you believe strongly that the death penalty is wrong, unconscionable, but your business is hooking up electric chairs for the state - it's not unreasonable to object by finding another line of work rather than having a direct hand in the moral choice you find to be so wrong.

Hobby Lobby should take their marbles and go home if they feel providing these services against their will amounts to murder, or aren't they taking some small part in these murders?

It's an honest criticism.

You can't change the game by not playing.

So if your opposition to what you think is murder is lost, and you're forced to fund that murder, how exactly do you change the game by continuing to operate and fund murder?

Wouldn't be a much more effective statement to simply say "No", and shut your doors? I think that's the whole argument.

Are you serious?????

The correct answer, the AMERICAN answer, is to continue operating your business and NOT pay into Obamacare. Make the bastards shut you down, but until then, you operate at the direction of your own moral compass. Government does not equal God. If EVERY business did this, it would send a huge message to the elitist ruling class in that cesspool back in DC.

ETA: In my fantasy scenario, when the Feds (or whoever) some to shut you down, greet them with a freaking gun in hand.

That's an avenue - one I doubt very much Hobby Lobby will take. It's also (since Hobby Lobby is but a handful of companies objecting) likely that they will face some real scrutiny and negative consequences for thumbing their nose at the Feds. Which, I'm perfectly fine with btw, but shutting their doors and taking their tax revenue, employees salaries, all of it off the table it also sends a statement. Don't agree? That's cool, but 99% of businesses will not say "fuck you" to the government. Not gonna happen.

The real question isn't shutting doors, or whether they'll blow off paying into it, it's will they cave if legally ordered to or will they refuse - however that refusal takes shape.

Posted: 11/20/2012 2:29:35 PM EDT

[#22]

That's an avenue - one I doubt very much Hobby Lobby will take. It's also (since Hobby Lobby is but a handful of companies objecting) likely that they will face some real scrutiny and negative consequences for thumbing their nose at the Feds. Which, I'm perfectly fine with btw, but shutting their doors and taking their tax revenue, employees salaries, all of it off the table it also sends a statement. Don't agree? That's cool, but 99% of businesses will not say "fuck you" to the government. Not gonna happen.

The real question isn't shutting doors, or whether they'll blow off paying into it, it's will they cave if legally ordered to or will they refuse - however that refusal takes shape.

The idea that someone would quit to make a point is a little naieve. Will the government care? No. I think this may be the endgame. The only people that will care are the employees that are now jobless, the owners who are ALSO jobless, and the customers who now cant access the goods and services provided by HL. Lost tax revenue?? Just another justification for increases in tax rates, fees, licenses, programs, etc.... When the private sector shrinks, it is just another opportunity for .gov to fill the void. This is a BAD plan. We need Hobby Lobby.

BTW, this country was founded by men who thumbed their noses at the feds, at great peril doing so.

Posted: 11/20/2012 2:34:05 PM EDT

[#23]

I can't wait til Muslims claim exception from our laws because they are subject to Sharia law instead.

I'm sure they'll be plenty of support here for their "freedom of religion" to do so.

Posted: 11/20/2012 2:46:57 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Cliff's Notes:

Go Galt.

I've considered this as an option. BUT there's a concern.
1) If ALL religiously oriented businesses "go Galt" then what sort of businesses will be left? There will be a mixture of only anti-christian, atheist, secular, Godless businesses. That's bad enough by itself, but it doesn't stop there.
2) So THOSE PEOPLE will be making money, accumulating wealth, while those Christians who went Galt will lose that wealth and income that was coming from the business. So what?
3) So, from now on, who will have all the money to make campaign contributions? Who will have the money to buy advertising time? .... Who will have all the money? Who will have the power?

I dunno about the going Galt option. It certainly has its appeal, but people should not act rashly. It certainly makes sense based on principle. Would God want you paying for sin and debauchery? On the other hand, would God want you putting tens of thousands of people out of work, people with children to support? Would God want non-Christians to have a sort of monopoly on the entire economy?

Going Galt is certainly an option to consider. It might be the right choice. But I'm not sure it's so simple.

Posted: 11/20/2012 2:47:58 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I urge you, if you TRULY believe that your conscience is being violated by Obama care, and are not just grandstanding to make some stupid political statement and look like a braying ass, if you truly do believe that all life is sacred and are willing to put your pro-life money where your mouth is, then I urge you to do the following:

Close your doors. Yep, you heard me, close your doors, shut it down, wind things up, and walk away. Don't sell your assets to someone else. Don't transfer the business. Just shut it down and walk away.

If you're not willing to put it all on the line for what you truly believe, then you're doing nothing but making an ass of yourself.

Grow a pair, and walk away, knowing your conscience is clear.

CVN

Be a quitter! That will show them!!

REALLY?

Not much of a reader, are you?

Who is John Galt.

Posted: 11/20/2012 2:49:27 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I urge you, if you TRULY believe that your conscience is being violated by Obama care, and are not just grandstanding to make some stupid political statement and look like a braying ass, if you truly do believe that all life is sacred and are willing to put your pro-life money where your mouth is, then I urge you to do the following:

Close your doors. Yep, you heard me, close your doors, shut it down, wind things up, and walk away. Don't sell your assets to someone else. Don't transfer the business. Just shut it down and walk away.

If you're not willing to put it all on the line for what you truly believe, then you're doing nothing but making an ass of yourself.

Grow a pair, and walk away, knowing your conscience is clear.

CVN

Be a quitter! That will show them!!

REALLY?

It's called taking a principled stand and OP has a point.

Posted: 11/20/2012 2:49:58 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Yes, because then the individual mandate still won't apply.....wait wut?

And the other counterpoint of this thread.

QFT. And sarcasm.

Posted: 11/20/2012 2:54:23 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
I urge you, if you TRULY believe that your conscience is being violated by Obama care, and are not just grandstanding to make some stupid political statement and look like a braying ass, if you truly do believe that all life is sacred and are willing to put your pro-life money where your mouth is, then I urge you to do the following:

Close your doors. Yep, you heard me, close your doors, shut it down, wind things up, and walk away. Don't sell your assets to someone else. Don't transfer the business. Just shut it down and walk away.

If you're not willing to put it all on the line for what you truly believe, then you're doing nothing but making an ass of yourself.

Grow a pair, and walk away, knowing your conscience is clear.

CVN

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this forum is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Posted: 11/20/2012 2:54:55 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

This thread is pants on head retarded. Mom made me eat all my dinner before dessert, and I didn't like it. I lost the appeal to dad so now ill just stop eating. That'll show them. OP has either gotten his way his whole life or doesn't believe in a damn thing with this kind of failed logic. Otherwise its do as I say and not as I do. All this thread needs is a Twinkies reference and a white house poll to top it off.

People who can set aside their religious beliefs to make money are either mistaken about their beliefs or they're lying about their beliefs.

Posted: 11/20/2012 3:02:21 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Cliff's Notes:

Go Galt.

I've considered this as an option. BUT there's a concern.

1) If ALL religiously oriented businesses "go Galt" then what sort of businesses will be left? There will be a mixture of only anti-christian, atheist, secular, Godless businesses. That's bad enough by itself, but it doesn't stop there.

2) So THOSE PEOPLE will be making money, accumulating wealth, while those Christians who went Galt will lose that wealth and income that was coming from the business. So what?

3) So, from now on, who will have all the money to make campaign contributions? Who will have the money to buy advertising time? .... Who will have all the money? Who will have the power?

I dunno about the going Galt option. It certainly has its appeal, but people should not act rashly. It certainly makes sense based on principle. Would God want you paying for sin and debauchery? On the other hand, would God want you putting tens of thousands of people out of work, people with children to support? Would God want non-Christians to have a sort of monopoly on the entire economy?

Going Galt is certainly an option to consider. It might be the right choice. But I'm not sure it's so simple.

But its not just going Galt, its also going Matthew 19:21.

Jesus never talked about socio-political-economic battles between believers and non-believers.

Posted: 11/20/2012 3:03:00 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
I urge you, if you TRULY believe that your conscience is being violated by Obama care, and are not just grandstanding to make some stupid political statement and look like a braying ass, if you truly do believe that all life is sacred and are willing to put your pro-life money where your mouth is, then I urge you to do the following:

Close your doors. Yep, you heard me, close your doors, shut it down, wind things up, and walk away. Don't sell your assets to someone else. Don't transfer the business. Just shut it down and walk away.

If you're not willing to put it all on the line for what you truly believe, then you're doing nothing but making an ass of yourself.

Grow a pair, and walk away, knowing your conscience is clear.

CVN

Is this what going full retard looks like?

Posted: 11/20/2012 3:03:06 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
I urge you, if you TRULY believe that your conscience is being violated by Obama care, and are not just grandstanding to make some stupid political statement and look like a braying ass, if you truly do believe that all life is sacred and are willing to put your pro-life money where your mouth is, then I urge you to do the following:

Close your doors. Yep, you heard me, close your doors, shut it down, wind things up, and walk away. Don't sell your assets to someone else. Don't transfer the business. Just shut it down and walk away.

If you're not willing to put it all on the line for what you truly believe, then you're doing nothing but making an ass of yourself.

Grow a pair, and walk away, knowing your conscience is clear.

CVN

That is retarded and makes no sense at all. Ignore religion, or pro-life/choice, I don't care what side you're arguing. When someone infringes on your rights, you don't give up and walk away.

Posted: 11/20/2012 3:23:51 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

That's an avenue - one I doubt very much Hobby Lobby will take. It's also (since Hobby Lobby is but a handful of companies objecting) likely that they will face some real scrutiny and negative consequences for thumbing their nose at the Feds. Which, I'm perfectly fine with btw, but shutting their doors and taking their tax revenue, employees salaries, all of it off the table it also sends a statement. Don't agree? That's cool, but 99% of businesses will not say "fuck you" to the government. Not gonna happen.

The real question isn't shutting doors, or whether they'll blow off paying into it, it's will they cave if legally ordered to or will they refuse - however that refusal takes shape.

The idea that someone would quit to make a point is a little naieve. Will the government care? No. I think this may be the endgame. The only people that will care are the employees that are now jobless, the owners who are ALSO jobless, and the customers who now cant access the goods and services provided by HL. Lost tax revenue?? Just another justification for increases in tax rates, fees, licenses, programs, etc.... When the private sector shrinks, it is just another opportunity for .gov to fill the void. This is a BAD plan. We need Hobby Lobby.

BTW, this country was founded by men who thumbed their noses at the feds, at great peril doing so.

Ok, but we're back to will Hobby Lobby thumb their nose at the Federal Government or not. Let's take the nature of their protest off the table - the OP was just postulating it was a response that was preferable to killing babies.

Will they do anything, or comply?

Posted: 11/20/2012 3:26:01 PM EDT

[#34]

All they need to do is stop providing Insurance coverage and just pay the penalty.

Posted: 11/20/2012 3:32:30 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

All they need to do is stop providing Insurance coverage and just pay the penalty.

Ok, fair enough. Will they? Is their religious objection stronger than their business sense?

Posted: 11/20/2012 3:39:32 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

My company is progun. Should we close up if they pass an AWB?

Not quite the same Bama-Shooter...unless you think that gun ownership is some sort of religious principle (boy am I leaving myself open here on arfcom for that one).

The story I read said that Hobby Lobby was objecting to Obamacare on religious grounds, and did not want to be forced to pay for certain treatments/procedures. Hobby Lobby lost the law suit.

My statement was simple. If they REALLY do believe this, and are willing to put their principles on the line, then shut it down...other wise, I see them as doing nothing but grandstanding, and using the name of religion to make some sort of stupid point.

Personally, I am about as fundamentalist a Christian as there is. I am pro-life. I have voted for ONE Democrat in my life (against David Duke when he ran for governor in Louisiana in the early 90's), and am the kind of guy that tends to worry about the speck in my own eye before picking at the beam in anothers, IOW, I don't see a need to legislate religious views.

I am simply saying that if Hobby Lobby is truly devout, and cannot find a legal way around this, then he needs to shut the doors and stick to his faith.

Nothing more, nothing less.

CVN

Both those rights come from the same place there Sparky.

Posted: 11/20/2012 3:42:51 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I fully agree.

If the churchies and lifies who want more children to suffer in neglected, abusive, and pro-leftist "households" and "families", by all means take your ball and go home.

I for one am following folks "quitting" in hopes of an opportunity to make some money.

what a tool

I was thinking something way more COC uncompliant. I'm gettin a little tired of self important assholes saying whatever the hell they want about Christians, but we have to be tolerant, and watch what we say about others.

Posted: 11/20/2012 3:44:20 PM EDT

[#38]

This is what the Catholic Church did in Massachusetts when the new anti-discrimination law went into effect that would force the Church to place children with homosexual couples. The Catholic Church said "yeah? we'll just stop ALL adoptions."

Other Catholic institutions have similarly gone Galt with this new contraceptive mandate.

Posted: 11/20/2012 3:51:13 PM EDT

[#39]

....so the world is f––-up, tsken over by the dark side, I should just quit, kill myself, take my ball & go...

Posted: 11/20/2012 3:51:28 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Just cut everyone's hours to 29 per week and and provide no health care. It's the new business model spreading around the country.

ANSWER

close thread

Posted: 11/20/2012 3:55:25 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I urge you, if you TRULY believe that your conscience is being violated by Obama care, and are not just grandstanding to make some stupid political statement and look like a braying ass, if you truly do believe that all life is sacred and are willing to put your pro-life money where your mouth is, then I urge you to do the following:

Close your doors. Yep, you heard me, close your doors, shut it down, wind things up, and walk away. Don't sell your assets to someone else. Don't transfer the business. Just shut it down and walk away.

If you're not willing to put it all on the line for what you truly believe, then you're doing nothing but making an ass of yourself.

Grow a pair, and walk away, knowing your conscience is clear.

CVN

I agree.

you agree, while proclaiming individual rights in your avatar?

How is a company owner taking a stand on principle at odds with individual rights?

Posted: 11/20/2012 3:58:01 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I urge you, if you TRULY believe that your conscience is being violated by Obama care, and are not just grandstanding to make some stupid political statement and look like a braying ass, if you truly do believe that all life is sacred and are willing to put your pro-life money where your mouth is, then I urge you to do the following:

Close your doors. Yep, you heard me, close your doors, shut it down, wind things up, and walk away. Don't sell your assets to someone else. Don't transfer the business. Just shut it down and walk away.

If you're not willing to put it all on the line for what you truly believe, then you're doing nothing but making an ass of yourself.

Grow a pair, and walk away, knowing your conscience is clear.

CVN

I agree.

you agree, while proclaiming individual rights in your avatar?

How is a company owner taking a stand on principle at odds with individual rights?

Duh, those evil 1% company owners arent individuals

Plus individuals have way WAY more rights than some filthy rich guy, er company

Posted: 11/20/2012 3:59:45 PM EDT

[#43]

To walk away you don't grow a pair, you lose your spine.

Posted: 11/20/2012 4:02:08 PM EDT

[#44]

OP is just another Christian hating lib. Proceed accordingly.

Posted: 11/20/2012 4:02:11 PM EDT

[#45]

Fuck GD has been overrun by fucking pussies.

go galt waah

I'm foing to expatriate to Tbilisi waah

Posted: 11/20/2012 4:04:58 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
I urge you, if you TRULY believe that your conscience is being violated by Obama care, and are not just grandstanding to make some stupid political statement and look like a braying ass, if you truly do believe that all life is sacred and are willing to put your pro-life money where your mouth is, then I urge you to do the following:

Close your doors. Yep, you heard me, close your doors, shut it down, wind things up, and walk away. Don't sell your assets to someone else. Don't transfer the business. Just shut it down and walk away.

If you're not willing to put it all on the line for what you truly believe, then you're doing nothing but making an ass of yourself.

Grow a pair, and walk away, knowing your conscience is clear.

CVN

Seems you aren't as close to your convictions as you expect others to be. What's the word for that...?

Posted: 11/20/2012 4:05:59 PM EDT

[#47]

Stupid post is stupid

Posted: 11/20/2012 4:25:31 PM EDT

[#48]

like the colonist should have been submissive to England's tyranny, or the Texans not fighting Santa Anna, or the US allowing the Nazi German uboats to continue to sink our ships, or allowing imperial Japan to continue to take over the Pacific after they attacked Pearl Harbor, or cowering in fear of Al qaida after the 9/11 attacks.

Posted: 11/20/2012 4:28:15 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
I urge you, if you TRULY believe that your conscience is being violated by Obama care, and are not just grandstanding to make some stupid political statement and look like a braying ass, if you truly do believe that all life is sacred and are willing to put your pro-life money where your mouth is, then I urge you to do the following:

Close your doors. Yep, you heard me, close your doors, shut it down, wind things up, and walk away. Don't sell your assets to someone else. Don't transfer the business. Just shut it down and walk away.

If you're not willing to put it all on the line for what you truly believe, then you're doing nothing but making an ass of yourself.

Grow a pair, and walk away, knowing your conscience is clear.

CVN

I disagree they should fight for their beliefs.

"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical". Thomas Jefferson

Posted: 11/20/2012 4:32:21 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Is it too late for some of your mothers to take that pill?

Lmao

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - An open letter to Hobby Lobby and other businesses that object to Obamacare on moral grounds (Page 2 of 3)

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