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Posted: 1/22/2018 11:48:43 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also as a consolation for not driving it from Oregon, I’m thinking about taking it to CWTIII assuming I can it roadworthy and get a spot. |
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Posted: 1/22/2018 11:54:39 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also as a consolation for not driving it from Oregon, I'm thinking about taking it to CWTIII assuming I can it roadworthy and get a spot. |
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Posted: 1/22/2018 4:52:18 PM EDT
[#3]
What a beauty! Please keep us updated on progress!
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Posted: 1/27/2018 4:09:29 AM EDT
[#4]
@m35ben or anybody else that’s rebuild a generator...
I can’t figure out how to get it the rest of the way apart. Are the coils pressed onto the shaft? I need to get to the bearing. The bearing housing is held in by screws I’m pointing to with the screwdriver.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/27/2018 4:12:46 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@m35ben or anybody else that's rebuild a generator... I can't figure out how to get it the rest of the way apart. Are the coils pressed onto the shaft? I need to get to the bearing. The bearing housing is held in by screws I'm pointing to with the screwdriver. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/236406/A9D6A761-AA6C-4D95-AE1D-08E5474BD1D4-432578.JPG |
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Posted: 1/27/2018 4:25:58 AM EDT
[#6]
a picture of the other side of the plate would be helpful to be sure but:
that shaft is just stuck to the bad bearing and should be able to be removed but may take some gentle coercion. the coils are built onto the shaft and not removable. (at least none that I've ever seen) get the shaft out of the plate and then the screws will be accessible. I think it'll look like this when you get the shaft out  looks like ebay item 162156412271 |
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Posted: 1/27/2018 4:35:48 AM EDT
[#7]
Here is a pic of the other side of the shaft. Think I just need to remove that key then bash with hammer?
 Attached File |
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Posted: 1/27/2018 4:44:02 AM EDT
[#8]
yep, it's just frozen on there from half a century of being there. Get the key out first, put the nut back on to protect the threads, then go at it with a dead blow carefully
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Posted: 1/27/2018 5:07:47 AM EDT
[#9]
I might be able to get my pulley puller on there. I’ll try that first.
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Posted: 1/27/2018 5:27:44 AM EDT
[#10]
thats a great idea!
just be sure to grab it right at the bearing, not out at the outside edge of the housing. That part appears to be cast and will probably break if you put the puller jaws at the outside. |
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Posted: 1/27/2018 7:26:03 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
thats a great idea! just be sure to grab it right at the bearing, not out at the outside edge of the housing. That part appears to be cast and will probably break if you put the puller jaws at the outside. |
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Posted: 1/27/2018 7:34:42 AM EDT
[#12]
Kroil it for a few days before trying to get it apart. A puller is the best way, do not use anything steel to hit the threaded shaft, put the nut back on flush before you commence to whackin. I still use a oak 4x4 piece against something I can't risk ruining if a proper puller can't be used.
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Posted: 1/27/2018 7:56:58 AM EDT
[#13]
The two screws just hold the bearing retainer plate. You don't have to remove them until after you pull the front housing. Soak it and it press the shaft down through it.
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Posted: 1/27/2018 9:38:57 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Kroil it for a few days before trying to get it apart. A puller is the best way, do not use anything steel to hit the threaded shaft, put the nut back on flush before you commence to whackin. I still use a oak 4x4 piece against something I can't risk ruining if a proper puller can't be used. |
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Posted: 1/27/2018 11:17:23 AM EDT
[#15]
I'm all for brute force but bashing it with hammer can ruin the casting, then your fucked.
Heat, oil , press or puller I would bring it to my local electrical shop they would replace the bearing and check/rehab the windings. Shouldnt cost much. Good luck |
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Posted: 1/27/2018 11:44:08 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm all for brute force but bashing it with hammer can ruin the casting, then your fucked. Heat, oil , press or puller I would bring it to my local electrical shop they would replace the bearing and check/rehab the windings. Shouldnt cost much. Good luck |
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Posted: 1/27/2018 12:14:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Ok I got the housing to budge on the shaft, and I think I can get it out the rest of the way from here.
Now the flipping key is stuck. I’ve got the shaft in the freezer trying to cool it. Works on stuck AK parts anyway. In the meantime I’m working on the top assembly. I got the old bushing out but it has a slot to let oil in. My new one doesn’t. Do I just cut a slot in the same place? Both bushings have the same part number GGU-38  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/27/2018 12:17:50 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok I got the housing to budge on the shaft, and I think I can get it out the rest of the way from here. Now the flipping key is stuck.... |
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Posted: 1/27/2018 12:20:52 PM EDT
[#19]
I would take it to a shop that rebuilds generators or electric motors. They will clean it up like brand new and you won’t ever have problems with it. If you were in San Antonio I could give you a list of places; but any large city will have them.
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Posted: 1/27/2018 12:37:11 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would take it to a shop that rebuilds generators or electric motors. They will clean it up like brand new and you won’t ever have problems with it. If you were in San Antonio I could give you a list of places; but any large city will have them. |
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Posted: 1/27/2018 1:45:23 PM EDT
[#21]
I wouldn't cut into that new bushing. It could be an upgraded, oil-impregnated bushing that self-lubricates.
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Posted: 1/27/2018 1:52:24 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok I got the housing to budge on the shaft, and I think I can get it out the rest of the way from here. Now the flipping key is stuck. I’ve got the shaft in the freezer trying to cool it. Works on stuck AK parts anyway. In the meantime I’m working on the top assembly. I got the old bushing out but it has a slot to let oil in. My new one doesn’t. Do I just cut a slot in the same place? Both bushings have the same part number GGU-38 https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/236406/C9189604-D7A6-4EE9-B067-DF405B9741E9-432799.JPG Did the bushing housing have a lube access point that lined up with the notch in the bushing? Might look like a zerk fitting. If it has one and you can cut/clean/debur the bushing making it perfect I would. If you aren't comfortable making the bushing perfect after the cut and just want to get it back together I would use it as is. As is is going to do its job uncut, if you mess it up cutting it your fucked. Good luck |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 1:04:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Ok I got it rebuilt and tried it out.
The bearing on the back side was definitely toast. However, it is still making a different rattling scraping sound when under load. It goes away if I unhook the wires. What could cause it to rattle under load but sound fine without the wires? |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 1:08:07 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok I got it rebuilt and tried it out. The bearing on the back side was definitely toast. However, it is still making a different rattling scraping sound when under load. It goes away if I unhook the wires. What could cause it to rattle under load but sound fine without the wires? |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 1:28:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is under load due to magnetism when the wires are hooked up and charging the battery. Unhook the wires and the load goes away. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ok I got it rebuilt and tried it out. The bearing on the back side was definitely toast. However, it is still making a different rattling scraping sound when under load. It goes away if I unhook the wires. What could cause it to rattle under load but sound fine without the wires? |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 2:16:12 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right, I realize that. Wondering what specific component would screech under load but be fine without the wires. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 3:07:39 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Screech under load? Belt slipping. While it's running with the belt on, spritz a little water on the pulley, if the noise changes, it's the belt slipping on the pulley. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Right, I realize that. Wondering what specific component would screech under load but be fine without the wires. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 3:09:21 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nah not belt slipping. We can duplicate it with it in park and can hear it coming from inside the gen with a stethoscope. Just can’t figure out what part in there is try rubbing or whatever. Disassemble and examine. If nothing is obvious, spray with some machinist marking compound, reassemble, run briefly, disassemble again. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 3:11:41 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nah not belt slipping. We can duplicate it with it in park and can hear it coming from inside the gen with a stethoscope. Just can’t figure out what part in there is try rubbing or whatever. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 3:16:26 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it loud? It may just be the bushings/bearings seating against the armature. I'd dribble a bit of turbine oil into them and see if that changes the noise. did you measure the armature shaft against the new bushings to see if they mike out OK? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Nah not belt slipping. We can duplicate it with it in park and can hear it coming from inside the gen with a stethoscope. Just can’t figure out what part in there is try rubbing or whatever. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 3:18:09 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Kinda loud and increases with rpm. I didn’t measure the new bushing, just installed it. First time it was super tight. I took it back apart and beveled the lip a little bit and it fit a lot smoother after that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Nah not belt slipping. We can duplicate it with it in park and can hear it coming from inside the gen with a stethoscope. Just can’t figure out what part in there is try rubbing or whatever. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 3:32:54 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Were the armature ends [the sides that ride against the bushings] smooth or grooved in any way? Is the bushing spinning against the mounting plate instead of stationary and the armature spinning against the bushing? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Nah not belt slipping. We can duplicate it with it in park and can hear it coming from inside the gen with a stethoscope. Just can’t figure out what part in there is try rubbing or whatever. |
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Posted: 2/4/2018 2:35:55 AM EDT
[#33]
Ok charging system has me all scrambled up still.
I got the generator put back together and running smooth. It was outputting 8v at idle. It ran fine for about 20 miles then the gen light came on. Voltage was scattered all over and couldn’t get a good reading. I suspect something went wrong with the regulator and caused it to over heat. I took it apart again and put it back together. It’s charging again. It puts out 8v at idle, but climbs with rpm up to 13 or 15v pretty quick. Shouldn’t the regulator be preventing that if it is functioning properly? I took the voltage regulator out and tried to set the gaps as per the service manual. It’s been replaced somewhere along the way and looks brand new inside. Still getting the same result after setting the gaps. |
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Posted: 2/4/2018 3:17:54 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok charging system has me all scrambled up still. I got the generator put back together and running smooth. It was outputting 8v at idle. It ran fine for about 20 miles then the gen light came on. Voltage was scattered all over and couldn't get a good reading. I suspect something went wrong with the regulator and caused it to over heat. I took it apart again and put it back together. It's charging again. It puts out 8v at idle, but climbs with rpm up to 13 or 15v pretty quick. Shouldn't the regulator be preventing that if it is functioning properly? I took the voltage regulator out and tried to set the gaps as per the service manual. It's been replaced somewhere along the way and looks brand new inside. Still getting the same result after setting the gaps. |
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Posted: 2/4/2018 10:50:24 AM EDT
[#35]
I have never worked on a car that old.
the 60's voltage regs however I know pretty well. ground generally affects output voltage as well as sensing line voltage. if either were changed in that 20 miles you could have those problems. I generally run an extra ground wire to the casing of the vr. Since it usually is only grounded by the screws holding it onto the firewall. I also run a relay power source to it from the battery. This eliminates the power drop that usually occurs from passing through the bulkhead connector. not sure if this helps, but something to check if it applies. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 12:11:19 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Throw the generator away and put a one wire Delco alternator on it and convert it over. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Ok charging system has me all scrambled up still. I got the generator put back together and running smooth. It was outputting 8v at idle. It ran fine for about 20 miles then the gen light came on. Voltage was scattered all over and couldn't get a good reading. I suspect something went wrong with the regulator and caused it to over heat. I took it apart again and put it back together. It's charging again. It puts out 8v at idle, but climbs with rpm up to 13 or 15v pretty quick. Shouldn't the regulator be preventing that if it is functioning properly? I took the voltage regulator out and tried to set the gaps as per the service manual. It's been replaced somewhere along the way and looks brand new inside. Still getting the same result after setting the gaps. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 12:40:03 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Throw the generator away and put a one wire Delco alternator on it and convert it over. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Ok charging system has me all scrambled up still. I got the generator put back together and running smooth. It was outputting 8v at idle. It ran fine for about 20 miles then the gen light came on. Voltage was scattered all over and couldn't get a good reading. I suspect something went wrong with the regulator and caused it to over heat. I took it apart again and put it back together. It's charging again. It puts out 8v at idle, but climbs with rpm up to 13 or 15v pretty quick. Shouldn't the regulator be preventing that if it is functioning properly? I took the voltage regulator out and tried to set the gaps as per the service manual. It's been replaced somewhere along the way and looks brand new inside. Still getting the same result after setting the gaps. |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 1:12:02 AM EDT
[#38]
ost
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Posted: 2/10/2018 11:40:01 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok charging system has me all scrambled up still. I got the generator put back together and running smooth. It was outputting 8v at idle. It ran fine for about 20 miles then the gen light came on. Voltage was scattered all over and couldn't get a good reading. I suspect something went wrong with the regulator and caused it to over heat. I took it apart again and put it back together. It's charging again. It puts out 8v at idle, but climbs with rpm up to 13 or 15v pretty quick. Shouldn't the regulator be preventing that if it is functioning properly? I took the voltage regulator out and tried to set the gaps as per the service manual. It's been replaced somewhere along the way and looks brand new inside. Still getting the same result after setting the gaps.  Generator - How to Polarize at the Regulator |
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Posted: 2/10/2018 12:33:01 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They also make alternators that look like and fit where the generator is. Much better option. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Ok charging system has me all scrambled up still. I got the generator put back together and running smooth. It was outputting 8v at idle. It ran fine for about 20 miles then the gen light came on. Voltage was scattered all over and couldn't get a good reading. I suspect something went wrong with the regulator and caused it to over heat. I took it apart again and put it back together. It's charging again. It puts out 8v at idle, but climbs with rpm up to 13 or 15v pretty quick. Shouldn't the regulator be preventing that if it is functioning properly? I took the voltage regulator out and tried to set the gaps as per the service manual. It's been replaced somewhere along the way and looks brand new inside. Still getting the same result after setting the gaps. |
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Posted: 2/13/2018 11:20:16 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryI did not. But my understanding is that it shouldn't need it if its generating. The problem is it seems to be over generating. |
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Posted: 2/13/2018 2:00:59 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I did not. But my understanding is that it shouldn't need it if its generating. The problem is it seems to be over generating. |
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Posted: 2/13/2018 2:29:27 PM EDT
[#43]
... admittedly, I've not kept up on this thread. Using a map, where are you now?
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Posted: 2/13/2018 6:45:59 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
... admittedly, I've not kept up on this thread. Using a map, where are you now? Car is in Texas. I had to have it shipped there, didn’t trust the trans. |
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Posted: 2/13/2018 6:46:56 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you sure you don't have a 12-volt regulator in there? I've seen quite a few examples of people slamming in a 12 volt battery and 12 volt regulator and calling it converted. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I did not. But my understanding is that it shouldn't need it if its generating. The problem is it seems to be over generating. |
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Posted: 2/13/2018 7:43:24 PM EDT
[#46]
Is it an externally regulated generator? And is the regulator 6v?
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Posted: 2/13/2018 8:07:17 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yep, it's just frozen on there from half a century of being there. Get the key out first, put the nut back on to protect the threads, then go at it with a dead blow carefully ditch the generator |
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Posted: 2/13/2018 10:59:23 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it an externally regulated generator? And is the regulator 6v? |
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Posted: 2/14/2018 12:02:23 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes to both. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is it an externally regulated generator? And is the regulator 6v? If it's overcharging, the problem is either the regulator or a poor ground. If you study a schematic of the system, it's a really basic setup and not much to go bad. My money's on the regulator. http://www.netlink.net/mp/volks/htm/gen.htm Quoted: It puts out 8v at idle, but climbs with rpm up to 13 or 15v pretty quick. Shouldn’t the regulator be preventing that if it is functioning properly? |
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Posted: 2/14/2018 2:37:13 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A generator is nothing but an electric motor that's turned by a belt. If you can remove the belt and motorize the generator by hooking battery cables to it, then there's no problem with your generator. You can also check to see if it's charging by temporarily hooking a jumper wire from the "F" terminal (field) to ground. That's called "full fielding" the generator and it should run wide open and the voltage output will go way up. Either one of those tests should verify that the generator is good, but it sounds like you've already verified that much. If it's overcharging, the problem is either the regulator or a poor ground. If you study a schematic of the system, it's a really basic setup and not much to go bad. My money's on the regulator. http://www.netlink.net/mp/volks/htm/gen.htm You know, after going back and re-reading what you wrote earlier, it almost sounds like the wire from the "F" terminal on the generator to the "F" terminal on the regulator might be shorted to ground somewhere along it's path. Sounds like there is something "full fielding" the generator. Check it very closely and if you don't see anything obvious, make yourself a new one, unhook both ends of the original and see if it changes with the new one on there. If it's not the wire itself, I suspect that something along the path of the "F" terminal inside the regulator is shorted to ground. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is it an externally regulated generator? And is the regulator 6v? If it's overcharging, the problem is either the regulator or a poor ground. If you study a schematic of the system, it's a really basic setup and not much to go bad. My money's on the regulator. http://www.netlink.net/mp/volks/htm/gen.htm Quoted: It puts out 8v at idle, but climbs with rpm up to 13 or 15v pretty quick. Shouldn’t the regulator be preventing that if it is functioning properly? One more weird thing it’s doing, is still producing output voltage when I manually force the contacts open on the voltage and current regulators. Seems like that should kill it. The circuit breaker to prevent back flow works right and closes as voltage comes up, but somethings gotta be shorted through the other two. |
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