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Link Posted: 8/19/2022 10:18:01 AM EDT
[#1]
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Quoted:
Out of curiosity, why .45 instead of the standard .38 S&W?
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Honestly? I had a bunch of large pistol primers, no small pistol primers, and I don't shoot 38 S&W  


I could have gone with .38Spl or .357, but that's extra shell area that has to be printed at 100%, so more filament and time per round.  .45 also holds ~25-28 grains of BP, so the charge is in the ballpark for what I'm wanting.

I'm not trying to make the cases work with blanks like your M781 experiments, I'm epoxying the case into the shell to make a high(er) pressure chamber that accepts large pistol primers. I do have a .32 ACP chamber reamer though, so if I end up trying blanks I'll probably make an insert that takes those and epoxy it into a printed shell. Or just turn down an AL base for them.
Link Posted: 8/20/2022 8:55:53 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
China lake launcher > all other launchers

https://www.instagram.com/p/ChDTgNOOJ0E/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
View Quote

I'm hearing rumors of a 26.5 version coming soon
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 3:06:27 PM EDT
[#3]
I was able to test this build in its stock distributed form today. The locking recess of my receiver broke after ~25 shots, which I sort of expected. We were getting a 35mm film canister load (~1.5oz) to about 125 yards with a ~28 grain load of FFG, I think we can do better but I'm tickled pink so far.

The .45 ACP insert shells performed perfectly, I reloaded one maybe 8 times, with no noticeable deformation to the shell, no setback on the .45 casing or any issues at all. I think I'm going to use this as the basis for all my ammo.

The 209 shells as distributed did not do very well, I had major issues with primers forcing themselves too deep into the case, and lots of issues with case deformation on firing - nothing shattered or anything, but I don't have any confidence in them.


I'm close to a functional prototype in ASA with an all metal lever lockup, but I also just did a redesign of the original receiverl that has a beefier locking section and cutouts for a printed lever to push a 3mm bolt into the locking latch, so it'll have the original lockup system, but still have a lever on the back to unlock. I just hit print on that, so it'll be probably Tuesday before I can put it together.








Link Posted: 8/22/2022 9:34:17 PM EDT
[#4]
Awesome! Great to see it coming along well. I wonder if simply using a beefier catch style like yours would help me.

I got a second receiver printed, set up with new hammer. Everything locked up great, tested great, and generally worked awesomely.

First M781 style round sheared off the locking recess again.





Link Posted: 8/23/2022 7:07:40 AM EDT
[#5]
That's exactly where mine broke, same layer actually. This thicker design should help quite a bit, but if it's not enough you could try a couple 3mm holes on either side of your locking recess from the top down, and add some 3x25 or so screws in to reinforce the top down to the chunkiest part of the receiver. I can't decide if that would be better or worse.

Maybe a piece of steel plate or an aluminum bar epoxied and bolted down to the top the same way? It'd be easy enough to shape, and you could actually try that with your broken receiver since it sheared right at the lockup point.
Link Posted: 8/23/2022 7:55:00 AM EDT
[#6]
I was contemplating a metal reinforcement of some sort, but never got around to it. Definitely something I will have to try. I also wonder if a different filament might be stronger (currently using esun PLA+).
Link Posted: 8/23/2022 9:49:30 AM EDT
[#7]
Side note, if anyone decides to go the M781 route (or makes the brass cases), I HIGHLY recommend a pipe/tubing cutter. A hacksaw (even with their cutting jig) is nowhere near flat/square. A tubing cutter is near perfect.
Link Posted: 8/23/2022 11:37:28 AM EDT
[#8]
The original design calls for PLA+,  are you using full power smokeless .38 S&W lifting blanks?    That'll be quite a bit more power than the ~30 grain FFG black powder load I'm using, so while probably safe, it makes sense that you'd be busting locking recesses quickly.

I'm trying an ASA receiver with a metal lockup system, but it's not together yet - ASA has better heat resistance than PLA+ but is prone to low layer adhesion so would make your problem worse.

Taulman 910 may be a good option for a mostly stock printer, it's really tough and strong, but it's a paaaaain to get to print right, lots of stringing and it'll warp without an enclosure and really good bed adhesion.
Link Posted: 8/23/2022 2:04:40 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The original design calls for PLA+,  are you using full power smokeless .38 S&W lifting blanks?    That'll be quite a bit more power than the ~30 grain FFG black powder load I'm using, so while probably safe, it makes sense that you'd be busting locking recesses quickly.

I'm trying an ASA receiver with a metal lockup system, but it's not together yet - ASA has better heat resistance than PLA+ but is prone to low layer adhesion so would make your problem worse.

Taulman 910 may be a good option for a mostly stock printer, it's really tough and strong, but it's a paaaaain to get to print right, lots of stringing and it'll warp without an enclosure and really good bed adhesion.
View Quote



USGI pulled M781 launching blanks. It fires just fine, and there are no other signs of pressure, but yeah....a little on the hot side. I do have some .38 special blanks, but I need to experiment to see how powerful they are (crimped mouth, Fiocchi), and would naturally need some minor modifications.

My printer is an Ender 3 Max with a PEI sheet on one side of the glass bed. It's in a shelving unit that I enclosed with metallic bubble insulation. I wondered if carbon fiber or something of the sort might be an option, but I've only had good luck with PLA so far. I've tried printing PETG and TPU, and neither printed all that great. At some point I'll probably upgrade printers, but for now, it's what I've got.
Link Posted: 8/23/2022 3:58:34 PM EDT
[#10]
I have had terrible luck with PETG, and limited, stringy success with TPU.

My setup is comparable to yours but with a cheap all metal hot end.   taulman 910 and ASA are running fine.  

I just pulled this receiver off the printer, I'm about to clock out and ride up to the country to give it a try. I'll load a couple shells a little hotter for you and let you know what happens.
Link Posted: 8/23/2022 9:28:36 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have had terrible luck with PETG, and limited, stringy success with TPU.

My setup is comparable to yours but with a cheap all metal hot end.   taulman 910 and ASA are running fine.  

I just pulled this receiver off the printer, I'm about to clock out and ride up to the country to give it a try. I'll load a couple shells a little hotter for you and let you know what happens.
View Quote



Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 8/24/2022 8:39:42 AM EDT
[#12]
Whelp, the lever unlocking works perfectly, and it'll handle 40gn FFG loads no problem - though I only had time to let off a few.

Files are up in the usual place.
Link Posted: 8/24/2022 9:31:59 PM EDT
[#13]
Sweet! I look forward to testing it out.

Eta: you've got IM.
Link Posted: 8/25/2022 9:33:17 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Sweet! I look forward to testing it out.

Eta: you've got IM.
View Quote



Responded!
Link Posted: 8/26/2022 2:28:22 PM EDT
[#15]
There are a bunch of little sections of rod and tube you need to cut to specific lengths for the NT79. I used a cutoff wheel and a bench vise for mine, but this might be helpful for someone else: rod/tube cutter fixture for dremel

ETA: what are y'all using for the firing pin return spring (3.5mm ID spring, BOM item no 12)?
Link Posted: 8/28/2022 11:22:41 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
There are a bunch of little sections of rod and tube you need to cut to specific lengths for the NT79. I used a cutoff wheel and a bench vise for mine, but this might be helpful for someone else: rod/tube cutter fixture for dremel

ETA: what are y'all using for the firing pin return spring (3.5mm ID spring, BOM item no 12)?
View Quote


That's a cool setup, I've been using a vice, sawzall, and belt sander for my pins.

I've been getting assortment spring kits from Amazon, it's nice to have a bunch of sizes around for different projects.
Link Posted: 8/29/2022 9:31:26 AM EDT
[#17]
That is a slick setup! I tried a larger one for cutting hulls, and it didn't quite work.

As for firing pin return spring, literally a pen spring (Zebra F-701 master race checking in). I trimmed it down a little and made it work.

Will be starting to print the reinforced receiver this morning. I have a new spool of filament coming tonight, and ~100g left on an old spool. I need to do the math, but I think ~7-8g per hour? I don't want the receiver sitting too long between filament changes.
Link Posted: 8/30/2022 7:02:55 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Will be starting to print the reinforced receiver this morning. I have a new spool of filament coming tonight, and ~100g left on an old spool. I need to do the math, but I think ~7-8g per hour? I don't want the receiver sitting too long between filament changes.
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Let me know how it does! I'm interested to hear how it holds up with full house blanks. Fingers crossed!
Link Posted: 8/31/2022 10:25:27 AM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:


Let me know how it does! I'm interested to hear how it holds up with full house blanks. Fingers crossed!
View Quote



Finished this morning. I need to do some sanding/filing, as the barrel doesn't want to lock shut. Everything feels closed, but the lock won't slide in to place. I also had to ream out the front receiver hole, as the barrel pin was physically too small to fit. I think part of the problem may be that my barrel is still from the original print, and had some flaws/squareness issues. That said, the last receiver locked up perfectly, no mods needed.
Link Posted: 8/31/2022 1:23:13 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Finished this morning. I need to do some sanding/filing, as the barrel doesn't want to lock shut. Everything feels closed, but the lock won't slide in to place. I also had to ream out the front receiver hole, as the barrel pin was physically too small to fit. I think part of the problem may be that my barrel is still from the original print, and had some flaws/squareness issues. That said, the last receiver locked up perfectly, no mods needed.
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Interesting, I didn't touch the front receiver hole, or the internal dimensions of the locking recess. Ambient temperature or a change in print settings causing slight over/undersizing maybe? I get interference issues trying to combine ASA  and PLA+ parts, and also when trying to mesh parts from 2 printers sometimes, but I didn't go very far out of my way to dial in calibration cubes and all that either.
Link Posted: 8/31/2022 1:37:18 PM EDT
[#21]
I'm using an Ender 3 Max, and something has always seemed a little off. One of the first things I did was add a second Z axis motor, as the gantry would flex a bit when going up and down. It's more stable now, but I still seem to have minor issues with tolerances.

After some sanding and tinkering, I was able to get the action to close. It was still VERY snug though. When firing, the impact was on the low end of the primer and did not detonate. Guessing I still need to do some more filing/sanding so the barrel sits properly, the action locks up, and the firing pin is where it should be.

While fiddling with the above, my two piece stock popped apart. lol...After I get the receiver figured out and things are working properly, I'll try printing a single piece stock.

Link Posted: 8/31/2022 3:14:47 PM EDT
[#22]
Good News: It's fired 2 M781 style rounds thus far. I did some tinkering after lunch, and while it's still a little tight, it locks up and fires. I think I'll putter with this setup for a while, and once it feels dialed in, manually re-level the shit out of my bed and try printing a new barrel, new stock, etc.

Site note: I'm just using the reinforced receiver. Haven't tried the thumb latch yet.
Link Posted: 9/1/2022 7:27:04 AM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Good News: It's fired 2 M781 style rounds thus far. I did some tinkering after lunch, and while it's still a little tight, it locks up and fires. I think I'll putter with this setup for a while, and once it feels dialed in, manually re-level the shit out of my bed and try printing a new barrel, new stock, etc.

Site note: I'm just using the reinforced receiver. Haven't tried the thumb latch yet.
View Quote



That's encouraging!  A thought - even if you're not going to install or use the thumb latch, there's probably a strength boost provided by the M3x20 screwed through the top down into the receiver.
Link Posted: 9/1/2022 9:50:02 AM EDT
[#24]
On the road today, but I'll give it a shot when I get home tonight.
Link Posted: 9/1/2022 8:57:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Installed the screw and fired two more rounds; one standard, and one
38 SPL. As expected, the SPL was anemic, and more flamey.
Link Posted: 9/2/2022 6:59:41 AM EDT
[#26]
Awesome, thank you for the feedback! Happy launching!
Link Posted: 9/2/2022 7:56:21 AM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Awesome, thank you for the feedback! Happy launching!
View Quote



Still planning on doing more testing, but down until I can print more pushers and nosecones (see my thread on a mini-delta). Once things are working smoothly, I may try your barrel release lever. I know you mentioned some metal parts, but did you end up doing PLA? If so, did they hold up?

I still have some concentricity issues, as primer strikes are low. Doesn't seem to bother the launching blanks so much, but the .38 SPL had to be hit several times before it finally went off.
Link Posted: 9/2/2022 9:52:48 AM EDT
[#28]
This design uses a printed lever, a pen spring, and an m3x15 screw (I think, I just grabbed an m3 screw out of my bin, it's shorter than 20 and matched up fine so I rolled with it).  The lever included in the file pack is exactly what I printed and am using. It's holding up fine so far, it's got a lot more mechanical advantage than I expected and unlocks the action really easily.

https://www.reddit.com/r/fosscad/comments/wwhu3e/nt79_receiver_reinforced_lever_unlocking/

I'm also striking off center, but I never used the stock breech block - I milled and drilled my own out of a piece of 6061 - I'm not a good machinist and was using a clapped out mill at work so I chalked it up to that. I didn't mess with any internal dimensions though. Maybe try flipping your breech block upside down? Or perhaps remixing the firing pin hole .5mm higher or so and reprinting to correct?
Link Posted: 9/2/2022 11:01:05 AM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

This design uses a printed lever, a pen spring, and an m3x15 screw (I think, I just grabbed an m3 screw out of my bin, it's shorter than 20 and matched up fine so I rolled with it).  The lever included in the file pack is exactly what I printed and am using. It's holding up fine so far, it's got a lot more mechanical advantage than I expected and unlocks the action really easily.

https://www.reddit.com/r/fosscad/comments/wwhu3e/nt79_receiver_reinforced_lever_unlocking/

I'm also striking off center, but I never used the stock breech block - I milled and drilled my own out of a piece of 6061 - I'm not a good machinist and was using a clapped out mill at work so I chalked it up to that. I didn't mess with any internal dimensions though. Maybe try flipping your breech block upside down? Or perhaps remixing the firing pin hole .5mm higher or so and reprinting to correct?
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The last time I had that issue, the barrel wasn't fully seated. Doesn't take many degrees to go from slightly off to dead center. I definitely like the idea of a metal breech block. I'm using 3D printed with the washers epoxied into place. They usually don't last long, and the all metal block would work. In my case though, I've got a dremel and a few hand tools...no mill or lathe.

Good point at flipping the breech block though. Might not change a thing, but sure can't hurt.

Link Posted: 9/3/2022 12:45:19 PM EDT
[#30]
Made another mod, this time to the stock. I kept having problems with the epoxy holding the stock pieces together....coming apart. I tried a two piece style instead of 3, and it still split.

I replaced two of the three reinforcing rods, with threaded rods. Threaded them into the grip section. Reamed out the holes on the rear section, so it just slides on the threaded rods loosely. Then, I trimmed away a little plastic under the butt so that I can fit nuts on the end of the threaded rod. Tighten the nuts, stock is solid. We'll see how long it holds up.
Link Posted: 9/9/2022 1:39:15 PM EDT
[#31]
Pretty sure my hammer just gave up the ghost. It appears that the sear surface has worn and/or bent over, so now the hammer rests 1/2 inch from the firing pin.

ETA: Several hours later, my cocking lever split in two. lol...
Link Posted: 9/10/2022 10:40:26 AM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Pretty sure my hammer just gave up the ghost. It appears that the sear surface has worn and/or bent over, so now the hammer rests 1/2 inch from the firing pin.

ETA: Several hours later, my cocking lever split in two. lol...
View Quote


I was wondering how long the sear would last.

Did you put a 3mm steel rod in your cocking lever?
Link Posted: 9/10/2022 8:33:09 PM EDT
[#33]
I did not, but it broke on the opposite side, by the hammer.

Old hammer (with a crack by the pin), new hammer, and broken cocking piece.

Link Posted: 9/14/2022 9:32:09 AM EDT
[#34]
Bummer. I haven't reinforced the long arm of my cocking lever either. I just tried to model in a 3mm hole for a rod on the short arm, but it gets skinny enough in the recessed section that I think it might end up making it weaker, or near impossible to print.

Link Posted: 9/15/2022 8:30:21 AM EDT
[#35]
Launcher is back online. Reprinted in a different orientation (I may have inadvertently printed 180 degrees off, so supports were on the wrong side). So far, it seems to be working.

Had my first case failure yesterday. A chunk of the PLA came out of one of the shell bases.

Link Posted: 9/15/2022 3:11:27 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Launcher is back online. Reprinted in a different orientation (I may have inadvertently printed 180 degrees off, so supports were on the wrong side). So far, it seems to be working.

Had my first case failure yesterday. A chunk of the PLA came out of one of the shell bases.

https://i.imgur.com/SYETmCq.png
View Quote




Interesting! That's "METH'S 38S&W BRASS M781" right?  What would you say your round count is?

I can remix it so it's solid all the way up to the end of the shell casing if you'd like - it looks like that recess is for gas bleed off to low pressure though, so I'm not sure if it'd be better to duplicate that geometry higher up or just make it concave. What kind of pushers are you using, if any?
Link Posted: 9/19/2022 8:36:17 AM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:




Interesting! That's "METH'S 38S&W BRASS M781" right?  What would you say your round count is?

I can remix it so it's solid all the way up to the end of the shell casing if you'd like - it looks like that recess is for gas bleed off to low pressure though, so I'm not sure if it'd be better to duplicate that geometry higher up or just make it concave. What kind of pushers are you using, if any?
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Correct. All in all, I think it's a fluke. Probably around 5-6 firings, but haven't been counting. I have not had similar issues with other casings of the same style, but I do have a few where the epoxy is allowing the base to separate from the brass very slowly (you can see where the epoxy cracked, and they move a hair every time they're fired).

This one may have been operator error. I have been working on a round for OC. I printed a TPU nosecone, but used a standard PLA pusher. I then drilled 6 smaller holes around the area where the blank pressure disc would impact. Holes had a small dab of hot glue to keep the powder from leaking out. General idea was that the round would impact the target, nose would squish, and the pressure would blow out the glue and cause a cloud. In reality, only one of the glue pieces dislodged, and now that I think about it, I think this casing was the one in use.

Been busy the past few days, but definitely need to do some more tinkering.
Link Posted: 9/27/2022 7:07:54 PM EDT
[#38]
Printed a PETG case head for the M781 style round. Haven't had time to tinker with it, as dialing in the PETG settings took a little time (still not 100%), and been under the weather. We'll see how this one holds up.

Link Posted: 10/14/2022 7:21:32 PM EDT
[#39]
AWCY?: B.A.L.L.S and Sm.A.L.L.S releases today 10/14/22 by @Danny.Meatball
Link Posted: 10/18/2022 12:38:50 PM EDT
[#40]
I've got a quick question that I'm sure yall can help me with. In the instructions, it calls for 4mm pins for the trigger and hammer. My trigger seems to be smaller than the 4mm it calls for.
Link Posted: 10/22/2022 11:02:38 PM EDT
[#41]
Well, mine broke on shot #2 today (shot #6 for the life of the launcher.

The bottom busted off of the rear barrel sleeve where it engages the cocking lever and the locking recess sheered off the reciever

I was shooting a 1.5" printed hull with 209 primer and 20 grains of pyrodex p

On the plus side, the round I fired had one of those small strings of firecrackers in it and it went off beautifully about 200 feet up in the sky

The hull busted in half and half of it is halfway down the barrel
Link Posted: 10/22/2022 11:35:07 PM EDT
[#42]
This sounds really sketchy, guys.  Y'all be careful.
Link Posted: 11/9/2022 4:57:41 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Well, mine broke on shot #2 today (shot #6 for the life of the launcher.

The bottom busted off of the rear barrel sleeve where it engages the cocking lever and the locking recess sheered off the reciever

I was shooting a 1.5" printed hull with 209 primer and 20 grains of pyrodex p

On the plus side, the round I fired had one of those small strings of firecrackers in it and it went off beautifully about 200 feet up in the sky

The hull busted in half and half of it is halfway down the barrel
View Quote



Mann, that is a really light load for that kind of damage. I'd guess the receiver wasn't to spec and the locking recess sheared, causing all of the other damage. Go with one of the reinforced receivers for your next one, but also check your print settings, are you using 10+ walls and 99-100% infill?
Link Posted: 11/9/2022 6:03:10 PM EDT
[#44]
Starting my build soon. Will update with pics.
Link Posted: 11/14/2022 12:22:14 AM EDT
[#45]
Getting everything together for my build also. Downloaded the beefy receiver listed here.

Actually I'm printing the internal parts right now, waiting on brown and black PLA+ to get here before printing external stuff.

Those of you who have actually printed and fired it, what advice do you have so far with your experience?

ETA: Looking at those latch failures, it seems like if you printed it on it's side (90*) it might be stronger since the forces of the latch would be pressing against a bunch of side layers instead of pushing layers apart. Might try this.
Link Posted: 11/14/2022 9:43:01 PM EDT
[#46]
Nice to see someone else getting use from ms 3d builder!  

How are you finding ASA?  I did some form futura apollox and it was ok but the layer adhesion was really bad to the point that layers would break off so cleanly they looked like top layers.
Link Posted: 11/15/2022 1:35:34 AM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This sounds really sketchy, guys.  Y'all be careful.
View Quote
Pffft that's the fun!
Link Posted: 11/15/2022 2:24:26 AM EDT
[#48]
Screwing around tonight in MS3D and made this


Search for Tugger82 in the odd sea if you want it...
Link Posted: 11/16/2022 3:43:02 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Nice to see someone else getting use from ms 3d builder!  

How are you finding ASA?  I did some form futura apollox and it was ok but the layer adhesion was really bad to the point that layers would break off so cleanly they looked like top layers.
View Quote


LOL, I use 3D builder more than I'd like to admit. It's really good for jamming stuff together and hollowing stuff out, which is the bulk of how I design....

I'm using Polymaker and I like it a lot. I'm printing at 160/100 - which is all my i3 Mega S will do. My mega X will do 150/90 - and it's... okay? It's in an improvised welding blanket enclosure and I still get some warping and bed adhesion issues.  I haven't had significant issues with layer adhesion, but I also try to be conscious of that when I design stuff - you'll note in my reinforced receiver for this I stuck a screw through straight down through the top- it holds the unlock lever in place but also reinforces the whole top section across the layer grain.

I've been in some development groups for hi-low shells and am working on my own based on purple ramsets, which is exposing some other weak links in this design. I'm working on a MAJOR overhaul right now that converts the hammer system to a beefy inline spring contained in the stock instead of an AR hammer spring, which requires a lot reinforcement and a redesign of the stock lockup system. I'm also working on making the stock connection joints a dovetail system across the axis of recoil.  Give me a few weeks to prototype and test and I'll drop the files.
Link Posted: 11/16/2022 3:44:24 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I've got a quick question that I'm sure yall can help me with. In the instructions, it calls for 4mm pins for the trigger and hammer. My trigger seems to be smaller than the 4mm it calls for.
View Quote


This is a common issue - chuck the pin in a drill and turn half of it down until it fits with a piece of sandpaper.  Don't try to ream out your hardened trigger. A good rule of thumb with tinkering is "modify the cheapest / most easily replaceable part first."
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