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Posted: 10/3/2019 3:51:30 PM EDT
[#1]
in on 2
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Posted: 10/3/2019 3:55:31 PM EDT
[#2]
Welp that should be grounds for reversal, and disbarment
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Posted: 10/3/2019 3:57:13 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 10/3/2019 4:00:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IMHO, one of the biggest problems this nation has is the convoluted logic and mental gymnastics the government will purpose to ignore or side-step the original intent of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. I'm tired of this shit! |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 4:05:55 PM EDT
[#5]
I love these threads....the inner workings of the ATF are mind blowing.
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Posted: 10/3/2019 4:13:18 PM EDT
[#6]
I am waiting to see if Ramsey A. Bear chimes in.
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Posted: 10/3/2019 4:16:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Uh oh, look at PG75.
Someone had a "extremely nasty phone conversation with Len Savage"  And PG78 has the ATF making the same defensive argument about bump stocks that every poster here has ever made. What a mess. |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 4:18:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Uh oh, look at PG75. Someone had a "extremely nasty phone conversation with Len Savage" And PG78 has the ATF making the same defensive argument about bump stocks that every poster here has ever made. What a mess. https://www.scribd.com/document/426807216/Len-Savage-ATF-Production-No-1-bumpstock-request |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 4:21:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just shows the level of contempt that many in our government have for "us". You (presumably an 07/SOT) send a prototype to them for approval and not only do they not approve it but seize your property? They then spend tens of thousands of dollars of "our" money and involve CIs to try to "win" their case over the seizure of a $400 product. |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 4:22:30 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reading the emails related to the case, the amount of jerking each other off at the ATF is ridiculous! Good job this and great work that. Why is it considered success if they get a forfeiture? Shouldn't they be in favor of a US firearms manufacturer producing a new product? You know, supporting a business which pays taxes and all that jazz? |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 4:32:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Sorry that happened op. Glad you have the means to go after them.
May everyone of those assholes burn for being commie pos. Fuck you batfe faggots. |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 4:36:48 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 10/3/2019 4:53:04 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know if i've posted this yet, but there are some screenshots that ATF took of certain websites included: https://www.scribd.com/document/426807216/Len-Savage-ATF-Production-No-1-bumpstock-request Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Uh oh, look at PG75. Someone had a "extremely nasty phone conversation with Len Savage" And PG78 has the ATF making the same defensive argument about bump stocks that every poster here has ever made. What a mess. https://www.scribd.com/document/426807216/Len-Savage-ATF-Production-No-1-bumpstock-request  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 4:58:40 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry that happened op. Glad you have the means to go after them. May everyone of those assholes burn for being commie pos. Fuck you batfe faggots. Nothing is going to happen. These folks never get held accountable. Best I can do is show the world what they are. Make folks aware. Document their antics. Because as sure as God made little green apples they will eventually get violent, it's what they do. Ole Harry Foster may even get a talking to for what went down eleven years ago, but don't hold your breath waiting on it. These are the facts folks, the game is rigged.... Me I want make the fucker famous, since they are heaping such praise on Ole' Harry Foster (they blocked him out but he was made "special" Ass-sistant US attorney" just to seize my shit). I want them all to know that he cheated and will stoop to anything... Oh for the record it is not unlawful for ATF to use an informant to get information during litigation from the opposing side. So it's legal cheat and not disclose your cheating, must be nice eh? I wonder how many at Just-Us knew what was going down? |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 5:03:16 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can you elaborate on what’s going on here? 
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Posted: 10/3/2019 5:04:22 PM EDT
[#16]
It sure is creepy to have to acknowledge that most of my deep-seated fears about government are true...
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Posted: 10/3/2019 5:05:22 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeh, dum it down for me. The story goes as you figure; nothing happened to them legally |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 5:05:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It sure is creepy to have to acknowledge that most of my deep-seated fears about government are true... |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 5:27:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeh, dum it down for me. -ATF wails and gnashes their teeth about blood in the streets if MAC owners become belt fed owners, decides something must be done -ATF bumblefucks their way into jerry rigging the upper into firing without a trigger by just dropping the bolt, calls it a machine gun, says Len has to register as MG on Form 2 (He's an SOT) -Len says no that's silly give it back -ATF seeks forfeiture judgement -Understanding the underwater twister legal limbo US GOV has to go through to get forfeiture judgement, Len crafts cunning legal strategy to force depositions on ATF and make them actually state some standards for technical evaluations, among other things -ATF has a plant/informant somehow in Len's side of things and gets wind of the public embarrassment they're about to endure -This is so absurd federal attorney shoots up distress flair, falls on deaf ears ***I'm not clear on how they avoided the above, but they get summary judgement in favor of forfeiture -ATF does a lot of back patting and cock snuggling over a $400 forfeit of property and preventing having to be held to any kind of standard or oversight RE technical evaluations |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 5:40:33 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
-ATF gave Len approval of a 7.62x39 MAC 11 upper based on the RPD. -Len hammers on ATF in trial as an expert witness, a year later ATF did the mind changing thing they do so well...Declared it illegal and demanded a customer list. -Len makes a belt fed upper for a MAC 10 and sends it to the ATF for approval -ATF wails and gnashes their teeth about blood in the streets if MAC owners become belt fed owners, decides something must be done -ATF bumblefucks their way into jerry rigging the upper into firing without a trigger by just dropping the bolt, calls it a machine gun, says Len has to register as MG on Form 2 (He's an SOT) -Len says no that's silly give it back -ATF seeks forfeiture judgment -Understanding the underwater twister legal limbo US GOV has to go through to get forfeiture judgment, Len crafts cunning legal strategy to force depositions on ATF and make them actually state some standards for technical evaluations, among other things -ATF has a plant/informant somehow in Len's side of things and gets wind of the public embarrassment they're about to endure -This is so absurd federal attorney shoots up distress flair, falls on deaf ears ***I'm not clear on how they avoided the above, but they get summary judgment in favor of forfeiture -ATF does a lot of back patting and cock snuggling over a $400 forfeit of property and preventing having to be held to any kind of standard or oversight RE technical evaluations And we managed to document them doing all of the above. |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 5:46:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The ATF threatened their own senior agents with: * Hiring cartel assassins to break and enter the employee's residence * Filming themselves raping the employee's family * Murdering the employee's family * Burning the house down * Laying the blame on the employee for the murder/arson It's all on CleanUpATF.org This was against a whistle-blower who had been in the ATF for 2 decades doing a lot of UC work. If they're willing to do that to their own, think of where we as citizens fall on that totem pole. And there's nothing you can do about it other than take care of your family, make more money, and enjoy the American dream. 
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Posted: 10/3/2019 5:48:06 PM EDT
[#22]
FATF
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Posted: 10/3/2019 5:51:08 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One of my favorite parts of your FOIA posts are the emails sigs of the various ATF employees |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 5:52:45 PM EDT
[#24]
It's says a lot of the kind of people who work for the ATF.
Amazing how they can sleep at night. Another Waco is just a email away |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 5:56:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have been paying attention sir. You get it. And we managed to document them doing all of the above. |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 6:08:56 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Genuine question sir, why did you submit it to the ATF at all if its an upper? Upper receivers in the AR15 world are unregulated, wouldnt it be the same with a MAC? If so id be making and selling those as much as I could to rub it in their nose. Forgive me if im missing something as im just reading of this all right now. Many folks claimed to have ATF approval (Ernie Wrenn of SOCOM) and never did and good folks had their machineguns seized. There good and logical reasoning for hashing it out with ATF before your make the first sale and not putting your customer in harms way.... |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 6:15:03 PM EDT
[#27]
Lets go back and look at some other emails again....Oh LOOK Harry Foster's name again!
July 2008 about a month before the email revealing the use of an informant....They were discussing bankrupting me....Think they knew there was an informant?  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 6:23:01 PM EDT
[#28]
Neato.
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Posted: 10/3/2019 6:23:15 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IMHO, one of the biggest problems this nation has is the convoluted logic and mental gymnastics the government will purpose to ignore or side-step the original intent of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. 
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Posted: 10/3/2019 6:36:40 PM EDT
[#30]
So the chances of getting the lawyers doing the shady "I call it illegal" informant stuff disbarred is probably nil?
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Posted: 10/3/2019 6:45:39 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the chances of getting the lawyers doing the shady "I call it illegal" informant stuff disbarred is probably nil? NOTHING is going to happen. They are proud of what they did. |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 6:48:49 PM EDT
[#32]
What a bunch of cocksuckers. They are the most corrupt agency in the Fed by far
They need to be folded into a real agency and all the agents and upper management should be fired. |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 6:49:01 PM EDT
[#33]
Just read all the docs... HOLY Christ that's way more fucked up than I thought, but unsurprising.
Also: How many fucking congratulations and attaboy emails does an organization need??? |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 6:57:55 PM EDT
[#34]
I remember reading you posting about the unprofessional discussions the ATF was having. Is this in regards to an AA12 Serial ?
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Posted: 10/3/2019 6:59:14 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The government seized a firearm I designed and sent to them...So I sued them to give it back. During the trial ATF employee used an informant to garner inside information on the case from the other side. ATF sent in a spy in a federal case to the opposing side!. It freaked out the attorney at ATF. Look if it freaks out an ATF attorney you know it has to bad....REALLY BAD. |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 7:01:58 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the gov gets an informant passing them info that is client-attorney privileged. And we're not a banana republic how? Click To View Spoiler |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 7:04:08 PM EDT
[#37]
The fix is in. I've always wondered why there wasn't a .50bmg Max 11 upper out there. Terribly stupid .gov infringements going on here.
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Posted: 10/3/2019 7:09:20 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A product that functions in entirety, identically, to multiple other "approved" products with no material difference. (That it used a Wise Lite receiver and machining to allow open bolt operation is immaterial) They didn't want belt fed Macs in the wild and did whatever they had to in order to stop it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Just shows the level of contempt that many in our government have for "us". You (presumably an 07/SOT) send a prototype to them for approval and not only do they not approve it but seize your property? They then spend tens of thousands of dollars of "our" money and involve CIs to try to "win" their case over the seizure of a $400 product. Kharn |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 8:06:34 PM EDT
[#39]
We all remember what the letters ATF stand for, don't we?
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Posted: 10/3/2019 8:19:16 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It sure is creepy to have to acknowledge that most of my deep-seated fears about government are true... |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 8:22:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The last few years have made all my imaginings of how bad the government was seem silly. Never did I imagine a full scale take over of all mechanisms of law in this country by globalist plants dead set on undoing our country, and yet... here we are. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have never been so disgusted with big.gov. Never did I imagine a full scale take over of all mechanisms of law in this country by globalist plants dead set on undoing our country, and yet... here we are. |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 8:24:11 PM EDT
[#42]
This is good to know. Thanks OP.
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Posted: 10/3/2019 8:36:27 PM EDT
[#43]
Jesus fucking christ!
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Posted: 10/3/2019 8:36:45 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have been paying attention sir. You get it. And we managed to document them doing all of the above. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
-ATF gave Len approval of a 7.62x39 MAC 11 upper based on the RPD. -Len hammers on ATF in trial as an expert witness, a year later ATF did the mind changing thing they do so well...Declared it illegal and demanded a customer list. -Len makes a belt fed upper for a MAC 10 and sends it to the ATF for approval -ATF wails and gnashes their teeth about blood in the streets if MAC owners become belt fed owners, decides something must be done -ATF bumblefucks their way into jerry rigging the upper into firing without a trigger by just dropping the bolt, calls it a machine gun, says Len has to register as MG on Form 2 (He's an SOT) -Len says no that's silly give it back -ATF seeks forfeiture judgment -Understanding the underwater twister legal limbo US GOV has to go through to get forfeiture judgment, Len crafts cunning legal strategy to force depositions on ATF and make them actually state some standards for technical evaluations, among other things -ATF has a plant/informant somehow in Len's side of things and gets wind of the public embarrassment they're about to endure -This is so absurd federal attorney shoots up distress flair, falls on deaf ears ***I'm not clear on how they avoided the above, but they get summary judgment in favor of forfeiture -ATF does a lot of back patting and cock snuggling over a $400 forfeit of property and preventing having to be held to any kind of standard or oversight RE technical evaluations And we managed to document them doing all of the above. I appreciate everything you do, and frankly the risk you put yourself in, when it comes to holding that corrupt bureaucracies feet to the fire. |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 8:39:46 PM EDT
[#45]
Is OP a whistleblower?
Tagged to read links later... |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 8:46:21 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didn't the SC just hand something down against forfeiture? |
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Posted: 10/3/2019 8:50:42 PM EDT
[#47]
Hey Len, ever figure out who the mole was?
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Posted: 10/3/2019 9:45:40 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We just had an AUSA who was found to be leaking grand jury material. Guess what? The DOJ declined to prosecute. It's clear that there are NO moral or ethical guidelines applicable to DOJ attorneys. Do you think the attorneys receiving this information didn't know its source? I have never been so disgusted with big.gov. |
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Posted: 10/4/2019 1:59:45 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m going to make a citizens arrest on all firearms in RCC1s collection. Thanks for the info OP! 
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Posted: 10/4/2019 2:29:17 AM EDT
[#50]
The sad thing is that tech branch could easily be a competent agency run by some of the most knowledgeable gun people around. Think Gun Jesus combined with the NTSB.
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