ARFCOM Fire Mission: AR15 called a terrorist rifle on outdoorlife.com - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ARFCOM Fire Mission: AR15 called a terrorist rifle on outdoorlife.com (Page 2 of 30)

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:28:39 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Who are the people linking this thread there, are they from here and if so why are you doing that?

Because their wife is also their sister, thats why.

I swear, the stupidity of some of our board members amazes me.

Why not post it? Are you ashamed of what goes on here?

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:30:16 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Hey guys... since some rocket scientists linked this thread over there, lets not give them fuel to fight back with... watch the comments. We want to win this argument, not look like a bunch of teenage back alley kids

Yes, please keep it civil guys.

_____________________
http://www.thebitchgirls.us/?p=6465

http://outdoorlife.blogs.com/zumbo/

http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/columnists/article/0,19912,1592623,00.html

Please DON'T hotlink that!

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:32:14 PM EDT

[#3]

My contribution (I did not attack Mr. Zumbo. Instead I attempted to show him another perspective and urge him to unite rather than divide):

I must be living in a vacuum. The guides on our hunt tell me that the use of bolt-action, magazine-fed, multi-shot, smokeless-cartridge centerfire rifles with high-power sniper scopes (see picture at top of page) have a rapidly growing following among hunters, especially prairie dog hunters. I had no clue. Only once in my life have I ever seen anyone using one of these firearms.

I call them "murderous sniper" rifles, which may upset some people. Excuse me, maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I see no place for these weapons among our hunting fraternity. I'll go so far as to call them "terrorist long-range carnage" rifles. They tell me that some companies are producing murderous sniper rifles that are "tackdrivers."

Sorry, folks, in my humble opinion, these things have no place in hunting. We don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern. I've always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don't use magazine-fed / multi-shot / smokeless-cartridge / centerfire / optically-enhanced rifles. We've always been proud of our "muzzle loading single-shot flintlocks."

This really has me concerned. As hunters, we don't need the image of walking around the woods carrying one of these weapons. To most of the public, a murderous sniper rifle is a terrifying thing. Let's divorce ourselves from them. I say game departments should ban them from the praries and woods.

--------------------------------------

It sounds a little outrageous from this perspective, doesn't it?

It appears that you have fallen for the manipulative braying of the Brady and VPC crowd and have allowed yourself to be become a tool in their gun-banning plans. If you continue down the divisive path you have started on and continue to help the gun-grabbers implement their agenda, in the end you will be one of those who is responsible for denying your great-grandchildren the pleasures of hunting with a fine firearm of any type.

Once the the gun-grabbers have finished with the so-called "assault weapons", they will be coming for your bolt-action "sniper rifles", and then your "magazine-fed, multi-shot" rifles (including lever and pump actions), and finally all "high-power" centerfire rifles, even the single-shot rifles. Is this the legacy you want to leave?

Fortunately, it isn't too late to reverse your thinking and take a stand to preserve the heritage you care for so deeply by defending the 2nd Amendment in its entirety. After all, the 2nd Amendment is not, and never has been, about protecting the right to hunt. It is a about the much more basic human right of self-defense.

Thus, I urge you to re-think your knee-jerk emotional reaction against an artificially classified group of firearms that you perceive to be "terrifying", and work to unite instead of divide. Please, remember that we stand together or hang alone.

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:33:08 PM EDT

[#4]

Outdoor Life is a magazine for gainfully employed hippies who's limited knowledge on everything they write about is surpassed only by their ignorance on the constitutional rights that allow them to write the bullshit in the first place. Fucking savages. I wipe my ass with that published rag and so should all of you.

You will learn absolutely nothing of value through that journalistic flatulence.

Fraternity....

....shaddup.

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:34:55 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Damn, just damn. I can't believe a gun owner and hunter wrote this.

I cant either. un friggin believable,

Remington should be breathing down theis guys neck for even letting there name be used in such an article

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:35:33 PM EDT

[#6]

I just saw this and to be honest, I am aghast. I have read Jim Zumbo's articles on his experiences for years--since I was old enough to hunt-- and have greatly admired this man and his work and exploitations.

Now I am seriously dissapointed with his generalizations on shooters and firearms with respect to "assault" rifles and the shooters who use them. This article really shows a lack of understanding, education, and a total disrespect for fellow gun owners--hunters or not.

Before making such caustic and ignorant statements, I would have thought, a worldly politically aware, Jim Zumbo would have done at least precursory research on the matter and made himself more qualifed to make such statments on the matter. He obviously does not even know or has been exposed to the inherent accuracy of the AR15 platform. In this day and age of gun control and dissappearing hunting lands, we all need to stick together and realize that we all have a similar risk at stake. Giving some (firearms)control away here or there is simply not acceptable--even though it may preserve our own particular niche in a gun owning society.

I am heart heavy to know now that someone I have admired for so many years would make such statements as these.

Sad day indeed.

This was my post...

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:36:21 PM EDT

[#7]

height=8

Quoted:
My contribution (I did not attack Mr. Zumbo. Instead I attempted to show him another perspective and urge him to unite rather than divide):

height=8

I must be living in a vacuum. The guides on our hunt tell me that the use of bolt-action, magazine-fed, multi-shot, smokeless-cartridge centerfire rifles with high-power sniper scopes (see picture at top of page) have a rapidly growing following among hunters, especially prairie dog hunters. I had no clue. Only once in my life have I ever seen anyone using one of these firearms.

I call them "murderous sniper" rifles, which may upset some people. Excuse me, maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I see no place for these weapons among our hunting fraternity. I'll go so far as to call them "terrorist long-range carnage" rifles. They tell me that some companies are producing murderous sniper rifles that are "tackdrivers."

Sorry, folks, in my humble opinion, these things have no place in hunting. We don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern. I've always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don't use magazine-fed / multi-shot / smokeless-cartridge / centerfire / optically-enhanced rifles. We've always been proud of our "muzzle loading single-shot flintlocks."

This really has me concerned. As hunters, we don't need the image of walking around the woods carrying one of these weapons. To most of the public, a murderous sniper rifle is a terrifying thing. Let's divorce ourselves from them. I say game departments should ban them from the praries and woods.

--------------------------------------

It sounds a little outrageous from this perspective, doesn't it?

It appears that you have fallen for the manipulative braying of the Brady and VPC crowd and have allowed yourself to be become a tool in their gun-banning plans. If you continue down the divisive path you have started on and continue to help the gun-grabbers implement their agenda, in the end you will be one of those who is responsible for denying your great-grandchildren the pleasures of hunting with a fine firearm of any type.

Once the the gun-grabbers have finished with the so-called "assault weapons", they will be coming for your bolt-action "sniper rifles", and then your "magazine-fed, multi-shot" rifles (including lever and pump actions), and finally all "high-power" centerfire rifles, even the single-shot rifles. Is this the legacy you want to leave?

Fortunately, it isn't too late to reverse your thinking and take a stand to preserve the heritage you care for so deeply by defending the 2nd Amendment in its entirety. After all, the 2nd Amendment is not, and never has been, about protecting the right to hunt. It is a about the much more basic human right of self-defense.

Thus, I urge you to re-think your knee-jerk emotional reaction against an artificially classified group of firearms that you perceive to be "terrifying", and work to unite instead of divide. Please, remember that we stand together or hang alone.

I've read your post and thought it to be one of the best so far. Everyone has been doing a great service to the AR with their comments. At this rate,I can only imagine how many comments will be there before he reads it. Great work.

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:36:39 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Who are the people linking this thread there, are they from here and if so why are you doing that?

Because their wife is also their sister, thats why.

I swear, the stupidity of some of our board members amazes me.

Why not post it? Are you ashamed of what goes on here?

OPSEC. OPSEC. OPSEC.

Now it does not matter how articulate some of the posts are, he will dismiss the whole as a bunch of fringe nutters and he will feel vindicated.

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:37:01 PM EDT

[#9]

This pisses me off more than some pantywaist liberal crying about guns. I've been a hunter all my life, but sometimes I feel sick that I'm even associated with garbage like that.

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:37:42 PM EDT

[#10]

FUDD ALERT.

Terrorist rifles. Good fucking grief. If anything the M16 family should be called "Freedom Rifles." It's spent the last 40 years or so defending it.

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:38:30 PM EDT

[#11]

I believe he owes us all an appology to all of us who have fought and contributed alot to the preservation of our rights including he 2nd amendment.

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:39:31 PM EDT

[#12]

It saddens me that you would consider publishing this garbage. The .223 is a very common round to hunt with. Ar-15's may "look" different to your traditional bolt action, but they fuction very much the same. Ar-15's are designed to accomodate a variety of different people, men and women alike. They were made to shoot comfortably and accurately. Rifles, in general, are not made for hunting. They are made to shoot. The 2nd Amendment wasn't designated for hunting either, it specifies that all Americans have the "right to keep and bear arms." I hope you think about what you have written and try be opened minded about different options to shooting. You may find that you enjoy shooting these sporting rifles, because "we indeed are in the same fraternity...As they say, different strokes for different folks. Enjoy it however you hunt." God Bless.

I posted this, I hope he considers what we all have written.

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:39:35 PM EDT

[#13]

this thread should be tacked !

688

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:40:00 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Who are the people linking this thread there, are they from here and if so why are you doing that?

Because their wife is also their sister, thats why.

I swear, the stupidity of some of our board members amazes me.

Why not post it? Are you ashamed of what goes on here?

OPSEC. OPSEC. OPSEC.

Now it does not matter how articulate some of the posts are, he will dismiss the whole as a bunch of fringe nutters and he will feel vindicated.

You should not be ashamed of what you believe in.We cannot win by hiding.
Good to see David Fortier left him a comment.

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:41:19 PM EDT

[#15]

I agree that this should be tacked for all to see.

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:42:12 PM EDT

[#16]

.

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:43:12 PM EDT

[#17]

What type of rifle was President Kennedy killed with?

Surprise surprise, it was not one of those "terrifying" "terrorist" rifles (which Kennedy personally loved) but was a hunting rifle.

Due to the indisputable fact hunting rifles can kill presidents, they should be banned, and because said president loved evil black rifles, evil black rifles should be canonized and made available to all members of the general public who aren't criminals, crooks, or retarded (includes teh 88s?)

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:43:53 PM EDT

[#18]

wow, I hope they reconsider his employment over there

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:46:13 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Who are the people linking this thread there, are they from here and if so why are you doing that?

Because their wife is also their sister, thats why.

I swear, the stupidity of some of our board members amazes me.

Why not post it? Are you ashamed of what goes on here?

OPSEC. OPSEC. OPSEC.

Now it does not matter how articulate some of the posts are, he will dismiss the whole as a bunch of fringe nutters and he will feel vindicated.

You should not be ashamed of what you believe in.We cannot win by hiding.
Good to see David Fortier left him a comment.

Then lets open the doors to Los alamos and thow away the locks at Ft Knox.

Methinks thou doest protest too much.

Let your posts stand on their own. Whe dont need to drag the airsoft kiddies into. this. It was an adult thing until you linked backe to here.

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:47:15 PM EDT

[#20]

IS YOUR NAME MATT??

Check your tone.

No I did not do it. But I don't see the big deal. You people act like you are ahamed of yourselves.

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:48:24 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
We need an Arfcom fire mission...

YUP!

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:48:36 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

IS YOUR NAME MATT??

Check your tone.

No I did not do it. But I don't see the big deal. You people act like you are ahamed of yourselves.

Dontya thing it might have had more effect if the though it was coming from all over instead of one place?

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:48:51 PM EDT

[#23]

Outdoor Life needs to hear from each and every one of us that has posted in this thread. Let's not assume the responses we've posted over there will either be read, or taken seriously. Below is their contact info. If someone can find their phone number, please post it, so we can contact them by phone Tuesday. Monday is a holiday.

We want to hear from you!

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By Mail: Outdoor Life Customer Service, PO Box 60001, Tampa, FL 33660-0001.

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:49:08 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
We need an Arfcom fire mission...

YUP!

I think it is already on the way.

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:50:54 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

IS YOUR NAME MATT??

Check your tone.

No I did not do it. But I don't see the big deal. You people act like you are ahamed of yourselves.

Dontya thing it might have had more effect if the though it was coming from all over instead of one place?

You may be right, but I hate to feel we should hide.

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:51:06 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Jim Zumbo:

Assault Rifles For Hunters?

As I write this, I'm hunting coyotes in southeastern Wyoming with Eddie Stevenson, PR Manager for Remington Arms, Greg Dennison, who is senior research engineer for Remington, and several writers. We're testing Remington's brand new .17 cal Spitfire bullet on coyotes.

I must be living in a vacuum. The guides on our hunt tell me that the use of AR and AK rifles have a rapidly growing following among hunters, especially prairie dog hunters. I had no clue. Only once in my life have I ever seen anyone using one of these firearms.

I call them "assault" rifles, which may upset some people. Excuse me, maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I see no place for these weapons among our hunting fraternity. I'll go so far as to call them "terrorist" rifles. They tell me that some companies are producing assault rifles that are "tackdrivers."

Sorry, folks, in my humble opinion, these things have no place in hunting. We don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern. I've always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don't use assault rifles. We've always been proud of our "sporting firearms."

This really has me concerned. As hunters, we don't need the image of walking around the woods carrying one of these weapons. To most of the public, an assault rifle is a terrifying thing. Let's divorce ourselves from them. I say game departments should ban them from the praries and woods.

Hoe-lee-shiite....

Since this thread is linked over there, I have a question:

Jim, you *do* realize that the bolt action and lever action you are pushing was the "assault" weapon of the past, right?

If we are going to limit ourselves to politically correct instruments of death, perhaps we should also discontinue the use of all those military calibers....you know, .30-06, .300 Winchester Magnum, .308.....

I have seen a hell of a lot more irresponsible hunters armed with a Remington 700 than I have armed with an AR15......If the weapon makes someone a bad hunter, then the bolt action and the lever action must have some seriously bad juju in it.

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:52:32 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

IS YOUR NAME MATT??

Check your tone.

No I did not do it. But I don't see the big deal. You people act like you are ahamed of yourselves.

Dontya thing it might have had more effect if the though it was coming from all over instead of one place?

You may be right, but I hate to feel we should hide.

There is a difference between deliberately hiding and actively advertising your position.

Perhaps it just a .mil thing on my part.

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:53:17 PM EDT

[#28]

Big Kudos to David Fortier

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:53:45 PM EDT

[#29]

Who cares if someone posted a link to this thread. I don't know how many members ARF has, but I'm sure when he reads all those posts, he's going to feel uncomfortable that it's been spread to a site with a ton of members.

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:53:47 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
As for all the "fudds" comments. I know plenty of folks (me included) that hunt and shoot ARs. These comments don't bother me, but they are counterproductive for our cause. Seriously.

Fudd is a term used to describe people who think the 2nd only covers their deer rifle and their duck gun.

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:54:06 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

IS YOUR NAME MATT??

Check your tone.

No I did not do it. But I don't see the big deal. You people act like you are ahamed of yourselves.

CHECK MY TONE?? negative. Im not ashamed, im very proud to be a member here, but Zumba should know and realize that its not just members of ar15.com that disaprove of his comments. posting that link there will just give him that idea.

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:54:37 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Big Kudos to David Fortier

+1

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:56:13 PM EDT

[#33]

subscription cancelled..
email sent...

Posted: 2/17/2007 5:56:52 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Big Kudos to David Fortier

+1

Posted: 2/17/2007 6:09:22 PM EDT

[#35]

Just one voice of reason among many.....

I sent a link to that site and my thoughts to many of my friends in the industry

you are either with us or against us, fools like him just do not fathom or do not care
what is at stake for not only us, but also our children......

I'll be writing about this lil tidbit........

spread the word to other forums too!

Posted: 2/17/2007 6:10:16 PM EDT

[#36]

Remington should be concerned that there name is associated with that article, or maybe they paid him to do it.

Posted: 2/17/2007 6:10:44 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Just one voice of reason among many.....

I sent a link to that site and my thoughts to many of my friends in the industry

you are either with us or against us, fools like him just do not fathom or do not care
what is at stake for not only us, but also our children......

I'll be writing about this lil tidbit........

Grist for the mill

Glad something good came from this.

I have a feeling a firestorm has been started and this will sweep the entire internet gun community within a day or two.

Posted: 2/17/2007 6:11:11 PM EDT

[#38]

that magazine will never cross the doorstep of this home again

I'm disgusted at a fellow gunowner and hunter posting such crap.

Posted: 2/17/2007 6:13:48 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Just one voice of reason among many.....

I sent a link to that site and my thoughts to many of my friends in the industry

you are either with us or against us, fools like him just do not fathom or do not care
what is at stake for not only us, but also our children......

I'll be writing about this lil tidbit........

Thank you a million times over, we all need to take a stand when this happens, hoepfully all this hasnt fallen on deaf ears and he realizes the mistake and damage he can do with the position he has as a writer.

Posted: 2/17/2007 6:14:27 PM EDT

[#40]

I just posted a response.

I want to take the opportunity to remind folks from ARFCOM that if you are going to post, please do so in as respectful a manner as possible.

Throwing around personal insults isn't going to help our cause. Logic and reason *will*.

He's not a "sh*tstain"....misguided and unfortunately lacking in some critical thinking on this issue yes....but we can say that in a very nice way.

Posted: 2/17/2007 6:15:48 PM EDT

[#41]

Exactly, be civil.
Third parties will read what we post and judge us by its worth. Even if JZ isn't swayed, others might be.

Posted: 2/17/2007 6:18:22 PM EDT

[#42]

Mods, would you please edit some of the more inflammitory posts?

Posted: 2/17/2007 6:26:26 PM EDT

[#43]

Is this Zumbo guy out of his mind? "Traditionalist" my ass- on the page from that magazine, he is pictured with a synthetic-stocked hunting rifle. Other than cosmetics, and loading, how in essence is his sainted rifle any different from an AR?

What a tool. Must have got in with John Rosenthal and his crowd.

Posted: 2/17/2007 6:27:46 PM EDT

[#44]

he sure does a big ol' plug for Remington in that article. wonder what there opinion is on the matter?? has anyone emailed them?? ive emailed everyone at outdoor life. that i could find an email for.

Posted: 2/17/2007 6:28:44 PM EDT

[#45]

I posted a comment. Not the best writing but I'm too tired to do anything better tonight.

Posted: 2/17/2007 6:30:24 PM EDT

[#46]

I'm fuming and I don't even own an EBR (yet)!

I've posted my comments to Mr. Zumbo and will also email Outdoor life and Remington for sponsoring this drivel.

Posted: 2/17/2007 6:31:21 PM EDT

[#47]

What is the Article URL so I can post a comment?

Posted: 2/17/2007 6:31:59 PM EDT

[#48]

I posted a comment and emailed the editors and public relations. Everyone really needs to do this. This arrogant bastard may be off his meds! Let's see that he gets help!

Posted: 2/17/2007 6:32:33 PM EDT

[#49]

I am stunned. I can't believe that Zumbo wrote that crap.

Posted: 2/17/2007 6:34:19 PM EDT

[#50]

I happen to like Jim Zumbo.

I also happen to like semi auto rifles.

Of course in 1989 and 1998 the BATFE said most semi autos were not suitable for hunting.

This despite them being declared 'sporting' from 1968-1988.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ARFCOM Fire Mission: AR15 called a terrorist rifle on outdoorlife.com (Page 2 of 30)

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