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Link Posted: 10/7/2017 8:22:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 8:24:53 PM EDT
[#2]
Not one more inch!!  Unless the NRA weighs in and then the Democrats and ATF can stick it all the way in if they want to.
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 8:28:15 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:
What does collective manner mean?

I can stockpile?
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It means get your ass to the village green after sermon tomorrow for drill.
Then tankards or hard cider or ale at the tavern afterwards.
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 8:36:40 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
What does collective manner mean?

I can stockpile?
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It means we must individually be capable of contributing to the collective defense.

In other words, the "militia" is only as effective as the sum of its parts, "the people," hence the need to be "well regulated," which means "well trained."

If the 2A were written today, one version could be "The collective defense of the nation is the duty of well trained militias made up of armed individuals, so the keeping and bearing of arms shall not be infringed."
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 8:38:06 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:


Thats where "well regulated" comes in. It has nothing to do with regulation. I believe it means well equipped.
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Regulated = versed or trained in basic infantry drill
See von Steubens manual.
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 8:42:32 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 8:57:46 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
Originally, Americans viewed a standing army as a danger to freedom.  As expressed in the debates about Madison’s Bill of Rights, a well armed and well regulated militia composed of the body of the people is the best security for freedom.

The militia is composed of all citizen freemen, and all freemen are duty bound to arm themselves.  This view is descended from the Anglosaxon fyrd of our ethnic British heritage.  The American militia is formed by two broad components: select and general.  The select militia are organized units supposed to rapidly respond to emergencies and form the core of the wider militia.  The remaining freemen are part of the unorganized, general militia.  

It is up to elected governments to provide the rules and training of the militia that make it well regulated.  Poor training and rules lacking command damaged the Americans’ campaigns in the Seven Years War, and caused hardship during the Revolution.  Americans must arm ourselves with weapons strong enough to defeat those that could be used against us by enemies foreign and domestic.

By the time the American Bill of Rights was ratified the majority of Americans were very safe from the dangers of indigenous attack or British oppression.  The Second Amendment was for the general and individual defense of the public, especially against bad government.  By the way, many American law enforcement agencies today resemble a standing army far more than a police force.

TLDR: Freedom is hard, it’s not for the lazy: suppressors, machine guns, and rockets for all.



Neat!


But can I store sarin gas, small pox, and high explosives next to my lawn mower in my shed conveniently located closer to my neighbor's house than mine?
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The trouble with your argument is that while nobody really wants their neighbors to have access to that kind of destructive power, as a people, we pretty much have to have weapon parity with our government in order for the 2A to serve as a deterrent to tyranny.
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 9:14:13 PM EDT
[#8]
A question with that diagram:

"Supreme Law - Not Repealable"

Is there any legal reason that would prevent the 2nd Amendment from being repealed through the amendment process, just as the 18th was repealed by the 21st?
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 9:33:20 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
It means properly instructed and trained in military skills.
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Quoted:
Thats where "well regulated" comes in. It has nothing to do with regulation. I believe it means well equipped.
It means properly instructed and trained in military skills.
You're both partially right. "Well regulated" means properly organized, trained, and equipped. As codified in the second Militia Act of 1792.

Which means that a "well regulated militia" cannot refer to the body of the people as a whole, but only to organized state militias.

Since few official state militias exist today, it throws into question the declaratory phrase that a well regulated militia is actually necessary.
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 9:37:20 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 9:39:14 PM EDT
[#11]
It's as clear as hell until the lawyers, judges, and politicians get involved.
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 9:54:55 PM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:
Back then there were many privately owned warships and cannons. That's the modern day equivalent of nukes, missiles, and heavy artillery. It was the pinnacle of arms at the time.
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The modern day equivalent of warships and cannons, is warships and cannons. There was no equivalent in that era to nuclear weapons and guided missiles.
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 10:06:37 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
Originally, Americans viewed a standing army as a danger to freedom.  As expressed in the debates about Madison’s Bill of Rights, a well armed and well regulated militia composed of the body of the people is the best security for freedom.

By the time the American Bill of Rights was ratified the majority of Americans were very safe from the dangers of indigenous attack or British oppression.  The Second Amendment was for the general and individual defense of the public, especially against bad government.
View Quote
If the 2nd Amendment was meant for defense against the government, why is that supposed purpose conspicuously absent from both the 2nd Amendment and the main body of the Constitution?
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 11:43:08 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:

If the 2nd Amendment was meant for defense against the government, why is that supposed purpose conspicuously absent from both the 2nd Amendment and the main body of the Constitution?
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Read Hamilton's Federalist 29.
Link Posted: 10/8/2017 12:23:03 AM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
Read Hamilton's Federalist 29.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
If the 2nd Amendment was meant for defense against the government, why is that supposed purpose conspicuously absent from both the 2nd Amendment and the main body of the Constitution?
Read Hamilton's Federalist 29.
Read it. Didn't see an answer to my question.

The only purposes that the Constitution notes for the militia are "to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions." Nothing about conducting insurrections against the government.
Link Posted: 10/8/2017 12:25:48 AM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
My liberal friend that has an AR and a bump stock will argue that, even though it says shall not be infringed, the same people that wrote the constitution also regulated the storage of gun power in buildings.  Because of this, no matter what the 2nd says about shall not, apparently any regulation is fair game.  He is also for registration even though he admits it will only assist after the fact.
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Yeah, well that was black powder in barrels (bulk) which would make a big kaboom at the slightest spark.  Youdidn't have to store yourready service powder in the magazine.  Modern smokeless powder is far less sensitive, and is contained in handy metal containers which is unlikely to spill.
Link Posted: 10/8/2017 1:07:23 AM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:
I believe HBR has captured the original intent/meaning of the phrase.
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Quoted:
Quoted:


Thats where "well regulated" comes in. It has nothing to do with regulation. I believe it means well equipped.
It means properly instructed and trained in military skills.
I believe HBR has captured the original intent/meaning of the phrase.
@raf Apparently not according to the state of Montana.

"Constitution of Montana -- Article VI -- THE EXECUTIVE


    Section 13. Militia.
    (1) The governor is commander-in-chief of the militia forces of the state, except when they are in the actual service of the United States. He may call out any part or all of the forces to aid in the execution of the laws, suppress insurrection, repel invasion, or protect life and property in natural disasters.
    (2) The militia forces shall consist of all able-bodied citizens of the state except those exempted by law."
Link Posted: 10/8/2017 3:28:25 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
Read it. Didn't see an answer to my question.

The only purposes that the Constitution notes for the militia are "to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions." Nothing about conducting insurrections against the government.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If the 2nd Amendment was meant for defense against the government, why is that supposed purpose conspicuously absent from both the 2nd Amendment and the main body of the Constitution?
Read Hamilton's Federalist 29.
Read it. Didn't see an answer to my question.

The only purposes that the Constitution notes for the militia are "to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions." Nothing about conducting insurrections against the government.
Here toy go:

If circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist. [Federalist 29
Link Posted: 10/8/2017 4:09:13 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:
Here's what I use with liberals at parties and such- "A well educated populace, being essential to a thriving country, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed"

Question to liberal- Does this statement mean only "well educated people" get to keep and read books?

They stammer and stutter and try a different argument.
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Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 10/9/2017 8:16:41 AM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 10/10/2017 11:26:24 AM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:

Good looking pistol in your avatar
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Thanks. It's going away shortly for a new and improved avatar.
Link Posted: 10/10/2017 11:29:13 AM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:



THIS is why we need to make ENGLISH the NATIONAL LANGUAGE!!!!!


8654
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Why? The Founding Fathers didn't think it was important. That should be a state's issue
Link Posted: 10/10/2017 10:26:08 PM EDT
[#23]
The Constitution FOR the United States is written in English. Since the Constitution FOR the United States is the Supreme Law of the land, English is the defacto language of the body governed.

 HBR
Oct 10, 2017

This statement is open source and may be freely quoted with proper attribution.
Link Posted: 10/10/2017 10:32:03 PM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 10/10/2017 10:35:59 PM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:
Here toy go:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If the 2nd Amendment was meant for defense against the government, why is that supposed purpose conspicuously absent from both the 2nd Amendment and the main body of the Constitution?
Read Hamilton's Federalist 29.
Read it. Didn't see an answer to my question.
The only purposes that the Constitution notes for the militia are "to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions." Nothing about conducting insurrections against the government.
Here toy go:
If circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist. [Federalist 29
<sigh> That does not answer my question: If the 2nd Amendment was meant for defense against the government, why is that supposed purpose conspicuously absent from both the 2nd Amendment and the main body of the Constitution?
Link Posted: 10/11/2017 9:13:21 PM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:

<sigh> That does not answer my question: If the 2nd Amendment was meant for defense against the government, why is that supposed purpose conspicuously absent from both the 2nd Amendment and the main body of the Constitution?
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It is there, and it is also in Federalist 28. You can look that up for yourself.
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