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Posted: 1/25/2011 2:15:45 AM EDT
[#1]
What the fuck just happended?
Page 13 is mine! |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 2:16:16 AM EDT
[#2]
I have been wanting to see this for years.
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Posted: 1/25/2011 2:17:23 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
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Holy shit... the Nays did not have it at all.... As to adopting the amendment, it's impossible to decipher that. The chair ignored the request for a roll call––that's the "issue" from a political standpoint. I was talking about the first verbal in the video, not the final. Was still watching it when I made that comment. Are you talking about the first voice vote immediately before the first recorded vote? If so, they sounded just as loud each. The recorded vote was 124: yes, 298: no. Yep, see my ETA above: ETA: I get the following - the Nays had it at the verbal at 6:03. Rangel ignored that and stated the Ayes had it (which they did NOT and there was an uproar requesting a recorded vote)... so on it went to a recorded vote. The recorded vote showed NAYS overwhelming the AYES at 297 to 124.... Basically the thing never passed. It was voted down and the vote was recorded. The video is proof of that.
The roll call happened. It shot the amendment down... Wow.... |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 2:19:34 AM EDT
[#4]
Agreed. I just went through the Record, and most of the exchange after that first roll call vote is deleted from the Record. Deleting things from the Record is not unusual, but it's what we've had to go on until now.
Link to Record. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 2:25:55 AM EDT
[#5]
Does anyone have a copy of the House Bill finally voted upon by the full House?
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Posted: 1/25/2011 2:34:55 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Does anyone have a copy of the House Bill finally voted upon by the full House? Still looking for complete copy but here is a summary: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d099:HR04332: What's shocking is this under amendments: 8. H.AMDT.777 to H.R.4332 An amendment to make it unlawful for any person to transfer or possess a machinegun except in the case of a machinegun that was lawfully possessed before the date of enactment.
Sponsor: Rep Hughes, William J. [NJ-2] (introduced 4/10/1986) Cosponsors (None) Latest Major Action: 4/10/1986 House amendment agreed to. Status: Amendment Passed in Committee of the Whole by Voice Vote. Here's the thing... the video and transcripts are proof that it didn't.... the entire recorded vote was ignored completely. Talk about massive failure. Corruption knows no bounds... the thing is completely unconstitutional. In my opinion as an American citizen (which apparently doesn't mean much anymore) the amendment never passed and is invalid. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 2:37:43 AM EDT
[#7]
I am not reading through all of this so if its been said before I apologize. But I watched the video. While I wouldn't piss in rangals (SP) mouth if his teeth on fire what he and Hughes did were to bring it up on procedural points till it passed in committee. It failed one of THREE votes. Guess who overwhelmingly voted to approve it based on recorded votes. REPUBLICANS! Then good ole Charlie walked the bill over to brother Tip ONeal who had a simple yea or bay recorded vote to the Hughes amendment to the Volkner (sp) Act. Again guess who overwhelmingly voted for it. Republicans! I was more surprised at the number dumbocrats who voted against it.
As to the Supreme Court getting involved? I believe they have stated before procedure issues within the legislative branch do not fall under their jurisdiction. Po-Po Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 3:15:45 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: I have been wanting to see this for years. + a billion. What a clusterfuck that was. 
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Posted: 1/25/2011 4:48:04 AM EDT
[#9]
Bill, on Schoolhouse Rock, is going to need a longer song.
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Posted: 1/25/2011 4:54:30 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
So can anyone explain what this could all mean for us? Won't this just be ignored? We have avenues of attack with this. It's not going to be pretty and Congress would do well to repeal it before a LOT of people on both sides of the isle are strung up with very uncomfortable questions. If Rangel was smart, he'd demand a repeal before we use this to totally ass rape any chance of his re-election in the future. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 5:03:58 AM EDT
[#11]
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I have a question, on the very remote chance anyone on here has a firm knowledge of the procedures of the House. My question is: what was the significance of the vote that lost 298-124? Examining the congressional record on the link provided, it appears that that vote was not to adopt the Hughes Amendment, but instead a vote on a motion by Hughes that the "committee now rise." Later on, the issue of the Hughes Amendment (quote- "this vote on machine gun bans") is actually put to a vote, and wins 268 to 136. I don't have time just now to research this further, but I will later and make a definitive report. The roll call vote was to remove the Hughes Amendment from Committee to put it to the Floor to add or not. My understanding was that it was indeed removed from committee even after having lost. Then speaker asks for a yea and nay vote to add the amendment. He says the yeas have it, a roll call vote is requested, but ignored. The last vote was on whether or not to adopt the Volker (sp) Substitute (containing the amendment), which passed in the roll call vote. My understanding was that the Volker substitute was ready to be voted in without the amendment, and many Representatives did not realize the amendment had indeed been added, hence the adoption of the substitute even after the unclear yea/nay regarding adding the amendment. I want the wife to address some of this to clarify and I may be wrong here but I believe that since Roberts Rules were violated with the amendment roll call vote being ignored, basically Roberts Rules being abandoned without a vote... it may be possible to address now. I don't know though since the proper way was attempted and shot down. Basically, if someone puts a motion out, it must be addressed either by a second or by the chair. The chair ignored the motion for a roll call vote and never gave the chance for a second. Given this, it's possible that we may be able to attack this on that level. As it stands, due to the violation of Roberts Rules by Rangel, the MG ban technically is invalid. Now, we just have to see if Congress will address this matter or if they view voted upon procedures just a convenience when they want them to be and ignore them the rest of the time. If the latter, we have a serious problem that will have to be addressed. If the former, we have a very real chance of having the MG ban removed. Either way, Congress needs to address this matter and fast. I intend on ruining some people with this footage if they don't address it. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 5:05:17 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
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Was this an issue in 86? Quoted:
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it is at the 8:20 mark where the voice vote takes place. At the 8:40 mark, someone asks for recorded vote and Rangel smirks and ignores the request.
Quoted:
watching it now  So, can someone explain for me, play by play, where the smoking gun is? I watched the whole thing-the action was moving pretty fast and to me all I saw was a contest over who made the loudest voice vote to a speaker with an agenda. How can a court go back to '86 and determine the intent of the legislators based on audio and vote counts if they conflict in one minute and don't the next? I hope I'm missing something really obvious here and my unfamiliarity with the fine points of Order and the bill are preventing me from seeing something in plain sight. I guess the question then is: Will a court interfere with the internal workings of Congress? Getting a court to strike down a law because of a procedural technicality is going to be tough. Maybe not impossible, but tough. Rangle is a shitstain and knew what he was doing, but I'm not completely confident that a federal court will strike down a much loved machine gun ban because he was a little sneaky and underhanded so long ago. I'd love to be wrong but the cynic in me grew after SCOTUS refused recently to stop New Jersey from jailing gun owners and seizing their firearms for traveling thru the state.
Problem is, there's nothing unconstitutional about it, and separation of powers prevents the judiciary from meddling just because they feel like it. To be clear, the law was unconstitutional-though that's a separate debate. The act of purposely sabotaging a vote isn't unconstitutional-but that's not what we are talking about here. The subject at hand is whether or not the Hughes Amendment banning civilian post 86 machineguns is actually law or not. My question is how far will a federal court be willing to stick it's nose into legislative proceedings to fix the problem.... Indeed, what I meant is that there is nothing unconstitutional about the purported snafu in the congress, since the billw as ultimately voted on in its entirely both by the house and senate. There can be no question whatsoever that since the Hughes amendment was voted on by both houses of congress and signed into law by the president, that it is actually a law. I find this whole thing very very fishy, precisely because there was no issue in 1986. The goings on of the congress get extremely high scrutiny, and it is absurd that none of the participants, their staffers, etc, would have taken issue with something being done in opposition to a recorded vote. It looks like people have just confused a procedural vote with the vote to adopt the Hughes amendment. No confusion. Roberts Rules were violated without consent and the Hughes Amendment was illegally adopted. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 5:12:14 AM EDT
[#13]
Those that worked hard to get this out into the light are patriots.
I salute you folks. (Market this as a tax revenue thing..... I will gladly donate $200 to the .gov for a new MG or two.) |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 5:22:32 AM EDT
[#14]
I watched the video and I am uncertain what happened. What is the bottom-line complaint that we have? Is it that the recorded vote defeated the Hughes Amendment, but Rangle erroneously claimed that a voice vote approved it, and then Rangle choose to go with the voice vote and he disregarded the recorded vote?
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Posted: 1/25/2011 5:24:19 AM EDT
[#15]
F*cking Hell... It's breath taking in it's criminality. How blatant... I literally feel sick to my stomach. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 5:25:23 AM EDT
[#16]
Okay, I'm on the phone with someone in Congress right now. This might get legs and run...
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Posted: 1/25/2011 5:25:40 AM EDT
[#17]
I hope ya'll got copies... I tried watching it and youtube returns an error?!? did it get removed that quickly?
edit : got it back up. nevermind |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 5:27:02 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
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Working on ripping the dvd's and splicing it togeather... Also trying to edit down to the basics for a youtube vid. I'm working on older hardware, i didn't have all the software I needed and I haven't ripped a dvd before so there was a bit of a steep lerning curve, but I've got it sorted out. Its processing... I'm working on it... Thanks for all this, let us know if there is anything we can do to help.  This x eleventy billion! |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 5:35:21 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
I watched the video and I am uncertain what happened. What is the bottom-line complaint that we have? Is it that the recorded vote defeated the Hughes Amendment, but Rangle erroneously claimed that a voice vote approved it, and then Rangle choose to go with the voice vote and he disregarded the recorded vote? Adv.1.erroneously - in a mistaken manner; "he mistakenly believed it"
mistakenly That is not the word I would use to describe what he did. YMMV. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 5:38:46 AM EDT
[#20]
Can somebody write up a real transcript and forward it, the video, and an analysis to the major conservative blogs (hotair, malkin, ace, the big gun blogs like snowflakesinhell, etc.)? I'd do it but I'm at work. Even if it doesn't help MGs, it at least shows what a fuck Rangel is. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 5:42:32 AM EDT
[#21]
Okay folks, I'm currently stirring up a shit storm. Everyone download that video if you can and hang on to it. I expect it'll be pulled soon. We must retain copies of this everywhere. I just got off the phone with a Congressperson who is going to discuss this with the Speaker of the House today. There is an avenue of approach to have this removed on the basis of how Rangel violated Roberts Rules.
There are people who have lost their freedom, their Rights and their lives over this bullshit. Rangel has no fucking excuse for what he has done... none at all. He needs to step down right fucking now. 24 years.... for 24 years this sham has been forced upon us. One way or another, the Hughes Amendment is going to die. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 5:48:32 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Okay folks, I'm currently stirring up a shit storm. Everyone download that video if you can and hang on to it. I expect it'll be pulled soon. We must retain copies of this everywhere. I just got off the phone with a Congressperson who is going to discuss this with the Speaker of the House today. There is an avenue of approach to have this removed on the basis of how Rangel violated Roberts Rules. There are people who have lost their freedom, their Rights and their lives over this bullshit. Rangel has no fucking excuse for what he has done... none at all. He needs to step down right fucking now. 24 years.... for 24 years this sham has been forced upon us. One way or another, the Hughes Amendment is going to die. What can we do to help you ? |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 5:50:07 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Okay folks, I'm currently stirring up a shit storm. Everyone download that video if you can and hang on to it. I expect it'll be pulled soon. We must retain copies of this everywhere. I just got off the phone with a Congressperson who is going to discuss this with the Speaker of the House today. There is an avenue of approach to have this removed on the basis of how Rangel violated Roberts Rules. There are people who have lost their freedom, their Rights and their lives over this bullshit. Rangel has no fucking excuse for what he has done... none at all. He needs to step down right fucking now. 24 years.... for 24 years this sham has been forced upon us. One way or another, the Hughes Amendment is going to die. Fuck yes. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 5:51:05 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Quoted: Okay folks, I'm currently stirring up a shit storm. Everyone download that video if you can and hang on to it. I expect it'll be pulled soon. We must retain copies of this everywhere. I just got off the phone with a Congressperson who is going to discuss this with the Speaker of the House today. There is an avenue of approach to have this removed on the basis of how Rangel violated Roberts Rules. There are people who have lost their freedom, their Rights and their lives over this bullshit. Rangel has no fucking excuse for what he has done... none at all. He needs to step down right fucking now. 24 years.... for 24 years this sham has been forced upon us. One way or another, the Hughes Amendment is going to die. What can we do to help you ? Well, not to speak for Hard_Rock, but I'd say contact every pro-gun congresscritter and internet blog you know of and send them the video and a description. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 5:53:43 AM EDT
[#25]
Go to http://www.savetube.com to save a copy. There may be a better source.
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Posted: 1/25/2011 5:56:05 AM EDT
[#26]
Added to the FOPA wiki page. Feel free to edit as appropriate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act#See_also |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 5:57:33 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Okay folks, I'm currently stirring up a shit storm. Everyone download that video if you can and hang on to it. I expect it'll be pulled soon. We must retain copies of this everywhere. I just got off the phone with a Congressperson who is going to discuss this with the Speaker of the House today. There is an avenue of approach to have this removed on the basis of how Rangel violated Roberts Rules. There are people who have lost their freedom, their Rights and their lives over this bullshit. Rangel has no fucking excuse for what he has done... none at all. He needs to step down right fucking now. 24 years.... for 24 years this sham has been forced upon us. One way or another, the Hughes Amendment is going to die. I am downloading now, I will D/L in another format when this one is done. Thanks for your work. If you need a copy let me know. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 5:58:26 AM EDT
[#28]
There is a Firefox add-on called Complete Youtube Saver, that I am using right now. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 5:58:58 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Okay folks, I'm currently stirring up a shit storm. Everyone download that video if you can and hang on to it. I expect it'll be pulled soon. We must retain copies of this everywhere. I just got off the phone with a Congressperson who is going to discuss this with the Speaker of the House today. There is an avenue of approach to have this removed on the basis of how Rangel violated Roberts Rules. There are people who have lost their freedom, their Rights and their lives over this bullshit. Rangel has no fucking excuse for what he has done... none at all. He needs to step down right fucking now. 24 years.... for 24 years this sham has been forced upon us. One way or another, the Hughes Amendment is going to die. Thank you. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:01:01 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Okay folks, I'm currently stirring up a shit storm. Everyone download that video if you can and hang on to it. I expect it'll be pulled soon. We must retain copies of this everywhere. I just got off the phone with a Congressperson who is going to discuss this with the Speaker of the House today. There is an avenue of approach to have this removed on the basis of how Rangel violated Roberts Rules. There are people who have lost their freedom, their Rights and their lives over this bullshit. Rangel has no fucking excuse for what he has done... none at all. He needs to step down right fucking now. 24 years.... for 24 years this sham has been forced upon us. One way or another, the Hughes Amendment is going to die. Thank you. Indeed. Holy shit, I'm very cautiously optimistic |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:01:01 AM EDT
[#31]
keepvid.com - paste the youtube URL in it, and it will download it for you in either a flv or mp4 file. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:04:59 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Okay folks, I'm currently stirring up a shit storm. Everyone download that video if you can and hang on to it. I expect it'll be pulled soon. We must retain copies of this everywhere. I just got off the phone with a Congressperson who is going to discuss this with the Speaker of the House today. There is an avenue of approach to have this removed on the basis of how Rangel violated Roberts Rules. There are people who have lost their freedom, their Rights and their lives over this bullshit. Rangel has no fucking excuse for what he has done... none at all. He needs to step down right fucking now. 24 years.... for 24 years this sham has been forced upon us. One way or another, the Hughes Amendment is going to die. I'm in. Getting the word out right now... I |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:09:42 AM EDT
[#33]
Is the Youtube video the only one online?
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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:10:47 AM EDT
[#34]
OH BOY OH BOY OH BOY
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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:11:17 AM EDT
[#35]
This is why I love arfcom.
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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:12:04 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Is the Youtube video the only one online? I'm setting up a direct link to download video.. hold for link! |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:16:48 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
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Is the Youtube video the only one online? I'm setting up a direct link to download video.. hold for link! How is this? CLICK TO DOWNLOAD VID |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:19:56 AM EDT
[#38]
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Is the Youtube video the only one online? I'm setting up a direct link to download video.. hold for link! How is this? CLICK TO DOWNLOAD VID That's good unless youtube pulls the video. Here is a direct link to the file: http://www.mediafire.com/?kno7zj1s25qga58 |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:22:36 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is the Youtube video the only one online? I'm setting up a direct link to download video.. hold for link! How is this? CLICK TO DOWNLOAD VID Will click once I'm home. Work bandwidth is at somewhat of a premium  |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:23:16 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Okay folks, I'm currently stirring up a shit storm. Everyone download that video if you can and hang on to it. I expect it'll be pulled soon. We must retain copies of this everywhere. I just got off the phone with a Congressperson who is going to discuss this with the Speaker of the House today. There is an avenue of approach to have this removed on the basis of how Rangel violated Roberts Rules. There are people who have lost their freedom, their Rights and their lives over this bullshit. Rangel has no fucking excuse for what he has done... none at all. He needs to step down right fucking now. 24 years.... for 24 years this sham has been forced upon us. One way or another, the Hughes Amendment is going to die. I wish you luck hard_rock. I cant wait to see how this turns out. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:23:39 AM EDT
[#41]
Not to be a Debbie Downer, but is the current congress willing to spend political capital to appear in favor of a MG legalization. Obviously this would take many years, but Im not convinced the current House has the balls to tackle this.
I am hopeful though. Everyone call or email your representatives and sentors.
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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:30:25 AM EDT
[#42]
Is there anyways to download the complete video?
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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:31:50 AM EDT
[#43]
I've saved it , does anyone have a boilerplate message to send to my congressman?
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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:35:04 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Okay folks, I'm currently stirring up a shit storm. Everyone download that video if you can and hang on to it. I expect it'll be pulled soon. We must retain copies of this everywhere. I just got off the phone with a Congressperson who is going to discuss this with the Speaker of the House today. There is an avenue of approach to have this removed on the basis of how Rangel violated Roberts Rules. There are people who have lost their freedom, their Rights and their lives over this bullshit. Rangel has no fucking excuse for what he has done... none at all. He needs to step down right fucking now. 24 years.... for 24 years this sham has been forced upon us. One way or another, the Hughes Amendment is going to die. This is very exciting to hear that it is making waves. I applaud your and Ajax's efforts thus far. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:37:41 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Okay folks, I'm currently stirring up a shit storm. Everyone download that video if you can and hang on to it. I expect it'll be pulled soon. We must retain copies of this everywhere. I just got off the phone with a Congressperson who is going to discuss this with the Speaker of the House today. There is an avenue of approach to have this removed on the basis of how Rangel violated Roberts Rules. There are people who have lost their freedom, their Rights and their lives over this bullshit. Rangel has no fucking excuse for what he has done... none at all. He needs to step down right fucking now. 24 years.... for 24 years this sham has been forced upon us. One way or another, the Hughes Amendment is going to die. Rangel is a piece of shit and with his recent ethics violations, now is the time to hang this on his head. Pile it on! |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:38:42 AM EDT
[#46]
tag for home.
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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:40:22 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Okay folks, I'm currently stirring up a shit storm. Everyone download that video if you can and hang on to it. I expect it'll be pulled soon. We must retain copies of this everywhere. I just got off the phone with a Congressperson who is going to discuss this with the Speaker of the House today. There is an avenue of approach to have this removed on the basis of how Rangel violated Roberts Rules. There are people who have lost their freedom, their Rights and their lives over this bullshit. Rangel has no fucking excuse for what he has done... none at all. He needs to step down right fucking now. 24 years.... for 24 years this sham has been forced upon us. One way or another, the Hughes Amendment is going to die. The day that the Hughes' Amendment dies is the day that I have a brand new Title II MP5, M16, and Uzi.  I'm pulling down copies of the video as we speak. Once I get home tonight (around 9pm - got class after work) I will be working on getting a torrent link setup for those of us who prefer torrents. Ajax - My offer still stands to do some processing. I can do voiceovers, editing, etc. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:41:59 AM EDT
[#48]
Rapidshare link for D/Ling.
http://rapidshare.com/files/444476601/FOPA_Hughes_Amendment_VOTE_APRIL_10_1986.MP4 |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:42:52 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: Not to be a Debbie Downer, but is the current congress willing to spend political capital to appear in favor of a MG legalization. Obviously this would take many years, but Im not convinced the current House has the balls to tackle this. I am hopeful though. Everyone call or email your representatives and sentors. There is no political will to re-open the registry. Neither the Republicans or Democrats are really interested in arming the lawful citizens of this country. The Hughes Amendment made it to the bill and Congress went ahead and made it law, signed by the President. That shows you how much both sides think of regular citizens and their rights. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 6:45:12 AM EDT
[#50]
Muahahaha. AR15 is being very /b/ish today. I love it. Emails sent to Congresscritters
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