[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 2 cycle oil mix (Page 5 of 6)
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I buy oil by the gallon but aren't some here suggesting one mix rate is good for everything? If that is the case why do we need all the different mix ratios? Just mix everything the same and run it no matter what the actual piece of equipment says. Yes. Mix it to whatever ratio the oil is designed for. This is obviously over your head or you are being mean to me. 
A gallon of oil. That can be mixed to any ratio. Has the chart on the back. And you say mix to what its designed for? its designed for a bunch of different ratios so that doesn't even make sense. You seem to think this thread is only about Stihl engines I think. Hello?
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Quoted: Ok, will someone get Keith_J in here to stop this madness!! I want one correct answer- it can't be this hard. I stopped reading at page 2 and came back for the correct answer. This may be one more that has no clear answer as a winner. Perhaps the get both rule applies? Read, either will work just fine? no machine can tell the difference in a few ppm???? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I also answered that back on page 3. Red Max oil is also JASO FD Registered...Not an answer. How about this... Would you mix Redmax oil at 32:1? "Right now the best JASO FD rated oil your hard earned money can buy is the Shindaiwa Red Armor. The testing that I have done on this stuff, it is UN-freaking believable with it's detergent package to deal with the crappy fuels we see. It is a 50:1 oil (that is a requirement of the JASO standard) that should be run @ 50:1 in any air cooled two stroke-cycle engine. Remember, it is the additive package that is doing the work, it isn't straight 30 weight oil that you had to mix 16:1." No, I would not. There is no need to. It is a quality oil and I know that because it actually meets an industry standard instead of the Oil MFG telling me it is so great. So you are saying that even though a unit asks for a 32:1 mix ratio, you would run Redmax oil in at a 50:1 ratio? Hello? Dude, I have a life... What part of " It is a 50:1 oil (that is a requirement of the JASO standard) that should be run @ 50:1 in any air cooled two stroke-cycle engine. Remember, it is the additive package that is doing the work, it isn't straight 30 weight oil that you had to mix 16:1." don't you understand? I would run it 50:1 in the old Zenoah snow mobile engines also. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Ok, will someone get Keith_J in here to stop this madness!! I want one correct answer- it can't be this hard. I stopped reading at page 2 and came back for the correct answer. This may be one more that has no clear answer as a winner. Perhaps the get both rule applies? Read, either will work just fine? no machine can tell the difference in a few ppm???? Unless you are discussing oils based on a known standard, there is no way to say what oil to use, and at what ratio other than using the Outdoor Power Equipment Engine manufacturer's required oil at the ratio they state. The majority of manufacturer's in the outdoor power equipment industry REQUIRE the oil to be JASO FD registered. Any oil then that has a JASO FD registration number can then be used...@ 50:1... because 50:1 is a requirement of the JASO specifications. the JASO FD specs far exceed any previous standards for air cooled two cycle engines and can be used @ 50:1 even in older engines that ran 16:1, 25:1, or 32:1, 40:1 oil mix ratios. This is because of the higher quality additive package that is in the FD rated oil. You missed this on page 3. Today's OPE engines must meet EPA emission standards and run MUCH hotter and LEANER then older engines. Yes they can tell the difference in a few ppm, and will fail due to poor quality oil. Guys, it is not the quantity (i know, i know, more is always better ) it is the QUALITY! |
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I buy oil by the gallon but aren't some here suggesting one mix rate is good for everything? If that is the case why do we need all the different mix ratios? Just mix everything the same and run it no matter what the actual piece of equipment says. Yes. Mix it to whatever ratio the oil is designed for. This is obviously over your head or you are being mean to me.
A gallon of oil. That can be mixed to any ratio. Has the chart on the back. And you say mix to what its designed for? its designed for a bunch of different ratios so that doesn't even make sense. You seem to think this thread is only about Stihl engines I think. Hello?
You have no choice but to mix at the manufactuer's rate with that oil IMHO. I mean, what else can you do? |
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I also answered that back on page 3. Red Max oil is also JASO FD Registered...
Not an answer. How about this... Would you mix Redmax oil at 32:1? "Right now the best JASO FD rated oil your hard earned money can buy is the Shindaiwa Red Armor. The testing that I have done on this stuff, it is UN-freaking believable with it's detergent package to deal with the crappy fuels we see. It is a 50:1 oil (that is a requirement of the JASO standard) that should be run @ 50:1 in any air cooled two stroke-cycle engine. Remember, it is the additive package that is doing the work, it isn't straight 30 weight oil that you had to mix 16:1." No, I would not. There is no need to. It is a quality oil and I know that because it actually meets an industry standard instead of the Oil MFG telling me it is so great. So you are saying that even though a unit asks for a 32:1 mix ratio, you would run Redmax oil in at a 50:1 ratio? Hello? Dude, I have a life... What part of " It is a 50:1 oil (that is a requirement of the JASO standard) that should be run @ 50:1 in any air cooled two stroke-cycle engine. Remember, it is the additive package that is doing the work, it isn't straight 30 weight oil that you had to mix 16:1." don't you understand? I would run it 50:1 in the old Zenoah snow mobile engines also. You are confirming what I have been saying. The mix ratio is oil specific. This is not a debate on what the best oil is. There are more than a few good oils out there that are to be mixed at a specific ratio in any equipment. Again, I'm not getting into a pissing match about your OPINION on what the best oil is. |
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I buy oil by the gallon but aren't some here suggesting one mix rate is good for everything? If that is the case why do we need all the different mix ratios? Just mix everything the same and run it no matter what the actual piece of equipment says. Yes. Mix it to whatever ratio the oil is designed for. This is obviously over your head or you are being mean to me.
A gallon of oil. That can be mixed to any ratio. Has the chart on the back. And you say mix to what its designed for? its designed for a bunch of different ratios so that doesn't even make sense. You seem to think this thread is only about Stihl engines I think. Hello?
Sorry, I missed your post. This is not about Stihl engines. I used the Stihl oil as an example. I'm a dealer for Redmax, Husqvarna, Echo, Stihl, Shindaiwa, Briggs, Kohler, Honda, and Kubota. Each brand has it's own factory oil. ALL of these oils are very high quality, and should be mixed at exactly 50:1 for use in all equipment regardless what the engine manufacturer says. I would never use an oil that gives options for different ratios. That tells me that they don't have a specific formulation with the additives needed to achieve a specific lubricity when mixed. I've been doing this a long time. I'm simply here to help. Three of the manufacturers I listed call me from time to time for tech advice. Not bragging, but I do know something about the subject at hand. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Dude, I have a life... What part of " It is a 50:1 oil (that is a requirement of the JASO standard) that should be run @ 50:1 in any air cooled two stroke-cycle engine. Remember, it is the additive package that is doing the work, it isn't straight 30 weight oil that you had to mix 16:1." don't you understand? I would run it 50:1 in the old Zenoah snow mobile engines also. You are confirming what I have been saying. The mix ratio is oil specific. This is not a debate on what the best oil is. There are more than a few good oils out there that are to be mixed at a specific ratio in any equipment. Again, I'm not getting into a pissing match about your OPINION on what the best oil is. I am not the one promoting one oil as the best because "I went to Stihl school and saw ONE engine run on straight gas after running on it"... I am the one who said there are MANY JASO FD oils that can be used, and I named them. The fact is, I have run hundreds of ope Two Stroke-cycle engines from pre-emission through phase 3 emissions on many different oils for evaluations. I have verified exhaust port plugging, ring sticking, under crown deposits. I have been involved anywhere from turning wrenches to product development and field testing. If there is not a STANDARD to go by on the oil, we are not comparing apples to apples oil wise and there is NO CORRECT ANSWER on gas to oil mix ratios other than USE THE ENGINE MANUFACTURER'S REQUIRED OIL AT THE STATED RATIO. |
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Dude, I have a life... What part of " It is a 50:1 oil (that is a requirement of the JASO standard) that should be run @ 50:1 in any air cooled two stroke-cycle engine. Remember, it is the additive package that is doing the work, it isn't straight 30 weight oil that you had to mix 16:1." don't you understand? I would run it 50:1 in the old Zenoah snow mobile engines also. You are confirming what I have been saying. The mix ratio is oil specific. This is not a debate on what the best oil is. There are more than a few good oils out there that are to be mixed at a specific ratio in any equipment. Again, I'm not getting into a pissing match about your OPINION on what the best oil is. I am not the one promoting one oil as the best because "I went to Stihl school and saw ONE engine run on straight gas after running on it"... I am the one who said there are MANY JASO FD oils that can be used, and I named them. The fact is, I have run hundreds of ope Two Stroke-cycle engines from pre-emission through phase 3 emissions on many different oils for evaluations. I have verified exhaust port plugging, ring sticking, under crown deposits. I have been involved anywhere from turning wrenches to product development and field testing. If there is not a STANDARD to go by on the oil, we are not comparing apples to apples oil wise and there is NO CORRECT ANSWER on gas to oil mix ratios other than USE THE ENGINE MANUFACTURER'S REQUIRED OIL AT THE STATED RATIO. Whoa sparky. I said that I used the Stihl oil as an example. In fact I use Red Armour for shop gas. Also, there were 6-7 saws we tested, not just one. This is a simple question of weather to use the OEM, or oil manufacturers recommendation on mix ratio. You are the one that got your book out spouting off numbers, and codes that the average person can't make heads or tails of. I answered the OP's question based on my expierence, and training. You got your book out, and confirmed it, thanks. 
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should be mixed at exactly 50:1 for use in all equipment regardless what the engine manufacturer says. 
Because there's no way these engine manufacturers know what they're talking about. Utter failures, all of them, spewing bad advice and ruining their engines all around the world. Quoted:
I would never use an oil that gives options for different ratios.
Because there are untold millions of hours on all manner of two-cycle equipment going back decades by people who been have been using such oil, only means they are stupid and they are due for a breakdown any day now. |
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should be mixed at exactly 50:1 for use in all equipment regardless what the engine manufacturer says.
Because there's no way these engine manufacturers know what they're talking about. Utter failures, all of them, spewing bad advice and ruining their engines all around the world. Read the thread. The discussion is about using non-OEM oil. Quoted:
I would never use an oil that gives options for different ratios.
Because there are untold millions of hours on all manner of two-cycle equipment going back decades by people who been have been using such oil, only means they are stupid and they are due for a breakdown any day now. Engines now days are not the same as they used to be. Modern machines are manufactured under the guidelines of EPA, CARB, etc. They run much leaner, and hotter requiring a quality mix oil. However, the modern oils can be used in older equipment when MIXED TO THE OIL MANUFATURERS SPECIFICATION. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I am not the one promoting one oil as the best because "I went to Stihl school and saw ONE engine run on straight gas after running on it"... I am the one who said there are MANY JASO FD oils that can be used, and I named them. The fact is, I have run hundreds of ope Two Stroke-cycle engines from pre-emission through phase 3 emissions on many different oils for evaluations. I have verified exhaust port plugging, ring sticking, under crown deposits. I have been involved anywhere from turning wrenches to product development and field testing. If there is not a STANDARD to go by on the oil, we are not comparing apples to apples oil wise and there is NO CORRECT ANSWER on gas to oil mix ratios other than USE THE ENGINE MANUFACTURER'S REQUIRED OIL AT THE STATED RATIO. Whoa sparky. I said that I used the Stihl oil as an example. In fact I use Red Armour for shop gas. Also, there were 6-7 saws we tested, not just one. This is a simple question of weather to use the OEM, or oil manufacturers recommendation on mix ratio. You are the one that got your book out spouting off numbers, and codes that the average person can't make heads or tails of. I answered the OP's question based on my expierence, and training. You got your book out, and confirmed it, thanks.  No where did I state it was OK to use ANY oil manufacturer's oil at the mix ratio they say on the bottle. That is what you have said, and you will cause the life of the OPE engines to decrease by those who listen to you and use inferior oils. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Guys, I always just mix at what the oil bottle says. The stuff I have says 32:1, so that is what I mix at. ETA: I never knew it mattered what the mfg said. ETA again: Oops, I see James does the oil bottle recommendation.......WHEW!! ALL 2-cycle engines are created equal. Same clearances, same needle bearings, same skirt clearances, etc. Hell, most even share carburetors. These factors determine mix ratios. Now, since they are all the same, it boils down to the oil. Keep in mind, we are not talking liquid cooled motorsports application 2-cycles. Please please PLEASE tell me that you don't really believe this! It's not a believe thing, it's how I make my living. Skirt clearance is determined by piston material. A cast piston thermally expands less than a forged piston for example. That's why you would run a tighter skirt clearance for a cast piston. Are you saying all 2 stroke pistons are made the same? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: should be mixed at exactly 50:1 for use in all equipment regardless what the engine manufacturer says. Because there's no way these engine manufacturers know what they're talking about. Utter failures, all of them, spewing bad advice and ruining their engines all around the world. Read the thread. The discussion is about using non-OEM oil. Quoted: I would never use an oil that gives options for different ratios. Because there are untold millions of hours on all manner of two-cycle equipment going back decades by people who been have been using such oil, only means they are stupid and they are due for a breakdown any day now. Engines now days are not the same as they used to be. Modern machines are manufactured under the guidelines of EPA, CARB, etc. They run much leaner, and hotter requiring a quality mix oil. However, the modern oils can be used in older equipment when MIXED TO THE OIL MANUFATURERS SPECIFICATION. The OP is NOT about using non OEM oil. He asked if it was ok to use 32:1 oil in his new engine. NO! Quoted: all of my 2 cycle toys take a 32:1 mix. well today i got a new toy that takes a 50:1 mix. help me out motor heads .... will the new toy go T.U. if i use the 32:1 mix in the new toy? On your second part: "However, the modern oils can be used in older equipment when MIXED TO THE OIL MANUFATURERS SPECIFICATION." IS WRONG!!! the term "Modern Oils" doesn't mean anything. There are a lot of "modern oils" out there that are JUNK, and WILL damage engines. |
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Guys, I always just mix at what the oil bottle says. The stuff I have says 32:1, so that is what I mix at. ETA: I never knew it mattered what the mfg said. ETA again: Oops, I see James does the oil bottle recommendation.......WHEW!! ALL 2-cycle engines are created equal. Same clearances, same needle bearings, same skirt clearances, etc. Hell, most even share carburetors. These factors determine mix ratios. Now, since they are all the same, it boils down to the oil. Keep in mind, we are not talking liquid cooled motorsports application 2-cycles. Please please PLEASE tell me that you don't really believe this! It's not a believe thing, it's how I make my living. Skirt clearance is determined by piston material. A cast piston thermally expands less than a forged piston for example. That's why you would run a tighter skirt clearance for a cast piston. Are you saying all 2 stroke pistons are made the same? The major manufaturers skirt clearances differ .001, and have a margin of .002. |
5 pages and I still don't know how much oil to put in a gallon of gas !  I use the little measured bottles for my Echo 2 strokes. Easy and I know it is right. Then again I only use a couple gallons of mix a year. I also run it in my chain saw with no ill effects even though it calls for a different ratio. Boat motor has oil injection so I just fill the oil tank and let it measure itself. Interesting thread...
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Quoted: Quoted: Skirt clearance is determined by piston material. A cast piston thermally expands less than a forged piston for example. That's why you would run a tighter skirt clearance for a cast piston. Are you saying all 2 stroke pistons are made the same? The major manufaturers skirt clearances differ .001, and have a margin of .002. You didn't answer the question. There is more than skirt clearances that make one piston different then the other. |
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Quoted: 5 pages and I still don't know how much oil to put in a gallon of gas ! I use the little measured bottles for my Echo 2 strokes. Easy and I know it is right. Then again I only use a couple gallons of mix a year. I also run it in my chain saw with no ill effects even though it calls for a different ratio. Boat motor has oil injection so I just fill the oil tank and let it measure itself. Interesting thread...5 pages to say for a new piece of equipment (from the OP): Use the Engine Manufacturer's requirement as stated in the operators manual. In your case, if you are running Echo products, use a JASO FD registered oil, that is what they require. if you are using Echo's 50:1 oil in the 2.6 oz bottle, you are good to go for 1 gallon of gas. The OP has a new Red Max oil, so he also needs to use a JASO FD registered oil. He or you can use the Echo, Red Max, Husky XP as a few examples and will not void your warranty. Two stroke oils are not equal. Hope that helps a little. PAR |
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Quoted: So, I can run my 50:1 echo oil, 89 octane gas in an older cultivator that calls for 32:1 with no ill effect? Absolutely. Here is why... When that cultivator was made the two stroke oil standards were set by the American Petroleum Institute (API). That standard was API TC (Two Cycle). That standard was discontinued around 1995 for the JASO standards, FA, FB, and FC. The higher the letter the higher the performance of the oil so FA<FC. API TC = JASO FA. Around 2001 a higher standard was needed for the leaner emission engines, so FD was implemented, and since FA was worthless anymore, it was discontinued. Since FD is now the highest standard, much higher than the API TC that was required for the older 32:1 running engines, it can be safely used, at 50:1. It isn't the oil, it isn't the lubricity, it IS the additive package in the mix oil. JASO registration tells you about the quality of the oil. http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/2T_EV_LIST.pdf Hope that helps. ETA: Echo oil is JASO FD registered, you can see it on the list. So is Red Max. So ANY JASO FD registered oil @ 50:1 will work. |
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So, I can run my 50:1 echo oil, 89 octane gas in an older cultivator that calls for 32:1 with no ill effect? Absolutely. Here is why... When that cultivator was made the two stroke oil standards were set by the American Petroleum Institute (API). That standard was API TC (Two Cycle). That standard was discontinued around 1995 for the JASO standards, FA, FB, and FC. The higher the letter the higher the performance of the oil so FA<FC. API TC = JASO FA. Around 2001 a higher standard was needed for the leaner emission engines, so FD was implemented, and since FA was worthless anymore, it was discontinued. Since FD is now the highest standard, much higher than the API TC that was required for the older 32:1 running engines, it can be safely used, at 50:1. It isn't the oil, it isn't the lubricity, it IS the additive package in the mix oil. JASO registration tells you about the quality of the oil. http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/2T_EV_LIST.pdf Hope that helps. ETA: Echo oil is JASO FD registered, you can see it on the list. So is Red Max. So ANY JASO FD registered oil @ 50:1 will work. Great. Now I can just store one can of pre-mix instead of 2.
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Quoted: So I just bought an FS90R about an hour ago, and picked up some of the Stihl Ultra oil. I look at the back and it says it's FB. I assumed it would be FD, because the super oil which is cheaper is FD. What gives? I feel cheated now after reading this thread. Nice huh? Thought you were buying the best because it says "Ultra" on it. Since your FS90R is NOT a two stroke, you will be fine running that oil in it. it is what Stihl recommends running in it. However, if you have any other manufacturer's two stroke equipment that requires JASO FD **DO NOT USE THAT OIL IN THEM**. FS90R is a four stroke that you mix the oil with the gas and it burns it. That is a whole other crazy thread. The other great thing is the oil you just purchased is not Registered as JASO FB. There is NO PROOF it was tested. You are taking that manufacturer's word for it. If it was it would have a big "FB" in a box and their 9 digit registration number on the bottle. |
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Ok, will someone get Keith_J in here to stop this madness!! I want one correct answer- it can't be this hard. I stopped reading at page 2 and came back for the correct answer. This may be one more that has no clear answer as a winner. Perhaps the get both rule applies? Read, either will work just fine? no machine can tell the difference in a few ppm???? http://www.csgnetwork.com/oilfuelcalc.html Look at your gas cap, take the ratio on the cap and use this calculator to see how much oil is needed. Chances are if you use this calculator to know what the ounces are per gallon you will find that the little bottles that you add to a gallon with the same ratio of gas is the same amount. Or be like me and take the really lazy route for the past 10 years, according to some on this thread is pure herp and derp and use a universal mix that works on all ratios, but that is for another thread. |
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Quoted: Quoted: So I just bought an FS90R about an hour ago, and picked up some of the Stihl Ultra oil. I look at the back and it says it's FB. I assumed it would be FD, because the super oil which is cheaper is FD. What gives? I feel cheated now after reading this thread. Nice huh? Thought you were buying the best because it says "Ultra" on it. Since your FS90R is NOT a two stroke, you will be fine running that oil in it. it is what Stihl recommends running in it. However, if you have any other manufacturer's two stroke equipment that requires JASO FD **DO NOT USE THAT OIL IN THEM**. FS90R is a four stroke that you mix the oil with the gas and it burns it. That is a whole other crazy thread. The other great thing is the oil you just purchased is not Registered as JASO FB. There is NO PROOF it was tested. You are taking that manufacturer's word for it. If it was it would have a big "FB" in a box and their 9 digit registration number on the bottle. I'm getting the impression you're not a big Stihl fan eh? Here's some stihl propaganda. I also just read that stihl oil is made by castrol. http://www.dhequipment.com/Stihl_info/WhyBuyOilScreen.pdf |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So I just bought an FS90R about an hour ago, and picked up some of the Stihl Ultra oil. I look at the back and it says it's FB. I assumed it would be FD, because the super oil which is cheaper is FD. What gives? I feel cheated now after reading this thread. Nice huh? Thought you were buying the best because it says "Ultra" on it. Since your FS90R is NOT a two stroke, you will be fine running that oil in it. it is what Stihl recommends running in it. However, if you have any other manufacturer's two stroke equipment that requires JASO FD **DO NOT USE THAT OIL IN THEM**. FS90R is a four stroke that you mix the oil with the gas and it burns it. That is a whole other crazy thread. The other great thing is the oil you just purchased is not Registered as JASO FB. There is NO PROOF it was tested. You are taking that manufacturer's word for it. If it was it would have a big "FB" in a box and their 9 digit registration number on the bottle. I'm getting the impression you're not a big Stihl fan eh? Here's some stihl propaganda. I also just read that stihl oil is made by castrol. http://www.dhequipment.com/Stihl_info/WhyBuyOilScreen.pdf Oh by no means. Stihl makes some great products. I am not out to bash any OPE MFG out there, just make sure that the members that read this info here do not blow good equipment up because they "used what it says on the bottle". I do not understand why they refuse to have their oil tested and registered with JASO. We would then know EXACTLY how good their oil is... hmmm. I find it interesting that lit says the HP & Ultra are "certified JASO FB" and the Super is "Cert JASO FD", and the graph shows Ultra high and to the left providing "Ultra Cleaning" when the detergent specs for JASO FD are 1.5x higher at 3 times the run time in the test. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ok, will someone get Keith_J in here to stop this madness!! I want one correct answer- it can't be this hard. I stopped reading at page 2 and came back for the correct answer. This may be one more that has no clear answer as a winner. Perhaps the get both rule applies? Read, either will work just fine? no machine can tell the difference in a few ppm???? http://www.csgnetwork.com/oilfuelcalc.html Look at your gas cap, take the ratio on the cap and use this calculator to see how much oil is needed. Chances are if you use this calculator to know what the ounces are per gallon you will find that the little bottles that you add to a gallon with the same ratio of gas is the same amount. Or be like me and take the really lazy route for the past 10 years, according to some on this thread is pure herp and derp and use a universal mix that works on all ratios, but that is for another thread. Sorry, but this does not work. I am not sure of the year off the top of my head, but engine mfg's use the global symbol of a Gas pump and a drop of oil on the caps. I would guess for the past 10 years it has been that way. Maybe more for some manufacturers. If you have older equipment and have been a "universal" oil and gotten away with it, more power to ya. |
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5 pages and I still don't know how much oil to put in a gallon of gas ! I use the little measured bottles for my Echo 2 strokes. Easy and I know it is right. Then again I only use a couple gallons of mix a year. I also run it in my chain saw with no ill effects even though it calls for a different ratio. Boat motor has oil injection so I just fill the oil tank and let it measure itself. Interesting thread...5 pages to say for a new piece of equipment (from the OP): Use the Engine Manufacturer's requirement as stated in the operators manual.
In your case, if you are running Echo products, use a JASO FD registered oil, that is what they require. if you are using Echo's 50:1 oil in the 2.6 oz bottle, you are good to go for 1 gallon of gas. The OP has a new Red Max oil, so he also needs to use a JASO FD registered oil. He or you can use the Echo, Red Max, Husky XP as a few examples and will not void your warranty. Two stroke oils are not equal. Hope that helps a little.
PAR How do you determine which oil was used in a machine that failed? |
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Carry on gentleman. Everyone's an expert it appears. You should have stuck to this post. Now STFU.
I was, but got bored. I love asking questions I already know the answers to, so I can watch people make themselves look stupid. It seems that a couple of "experts" here (you included) have no fucking clue what they are talking about. I do have to thank you for the entertainment though.
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Carry on gentleman. Everyone's an expert it appears. You should have stuck to this post. Now STFU.
I was, but got bored. I love asking questions I already know the answers to, so I can watch people make themselves look stupid. It seems that a couple of "experts" here (you included) have no fucking clue what they are talking about. I do have to thank you for the entertainment though.
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 5 pages and I still don't know how much oil to put in a gallon of gas ! I use the little measured bottles for my Echo 2 strokes. Easy and I know it is right. Then again I only use a couple gallons of mix a year. I also run it in my chain saw with no ill effects even though it calls for a different ratio. Boat motor has oil injection so I just fill the oil tank and let it measure itself. Interesting thread...5 pages to say for a new piece of equipment (from the OP): Use the Engine Manufacturer's requirement as stated in the operators manual. In your case, if you are running Echo products, use a JASO FD registered oil, that is what they require. if you are using Echo's 50:1 oil in the 2.6 oz bottle, you are good to go for 1 gallon of gas. The OP has a new Red Max oil, so he also needs to use a JASO FD registered oil. He or you can use the Echo, Red Max, Husky XP as a few examples and will not void your warranty. Two stroke oils are not equal. Hope that helps a little. PAR How do you determine which oil was used in a machine that failed? Well, there is a couple ways you can do it... the easy way: you can ask the person who last mixed the gas and oil what oil they used. the expensive way: spectrum analysis. This won't tell you the exact oil brand that is used unless you have a matching known analysis. Even then, batches will vary in properties and Husky oil may match RED MAX's oil. But it will tell you if the additives and sufficient quantity needed to meet JASO FD are present. This wouldn't be cost effective for an OPE manufacturer to do every time they suspect an engine failure that is oil related. They would most likely go by the "easy way" and eat it if the person lies, or if there is sufficient coking reject it outright. Please don't get me wrong in thinking that JASO FD is fail proof and the end all when it comes to air cooled two stroke-cycle engine oil. It isn't and that is not what I am trying to imply. But unless that oil mfg tests and registers their oil there is no way to accurately compare the oils. IF their oil is of such high quality that it blows the JASO FD test away, they can petition JALOS to make a higher standard of "FE" for example and raise the bar. Engine and Oil MFG's can do crazy things that are stacking the deck in their favor when doing oil and destructive demo tests and literature. |
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5 pages and I still don't know how much oil to put in a gallon of gas ! I use the little measured bottles for my Echo 2 strokes. Easy and I know it is right. Then again I only use a couple gallons of mix a year. I also run it in my chain saw with no ill effects even though it calls for a different ratio. Boat motor has oil injection so I just fill the oil tank and let it measure itself. Interesting thread...5 pages to say for a new piece of equipment (from the OP): Use the Engine Manufacturer's requirement as stated in the operators manual.
In your case, if you are running Echo products, use a JASO FD registered oil, that is what they require. if you are using Echo's 50:1 oil in the 2.6 oz bottle, you are good to go for 1 gallon of gas. The OP has a new Red Max oil, so he also needs to use a JASO FD registered oil. He or you can use the Echo, Red Max, Husky XP as a few examples and will not void your warranty. Two stroke oils are not equal. Hope that helps a little.
PAR How do you determine which oil was used in a machine that failed? Well, there is a couple ways you can do it... the easy way: you can ask the person who last mixed the gas and oil what oil they used. the expensive way: spectrum analysis. This won't tell you the exact oil brand that is used unless you have a matching known analysis. Even then, batches will vary in properties and Husky oil may match RED MAX's oil. But it will tell you if the additives and sufficient quantity needed to meet JASO FD are present. This wouldn't be cost effective for an OPE manufacturer to do every time they suspect an engine failure that is oil related. They would most likely go by the "easy way" and eat it if the person lies, or if there is sufficient coking reject it outright. Please don't get me wrong in thinking that JASO FD is fail proof and the end all when it comes to air cooled two stroke-cycle engine oil. It isn't and that is not what I am trying to imply. But unless that oil mfg tests and registers their oil there is no way to accurately compare the oils. IF their oil is of such high quality that it blows the JASO FD test away, they can petition JALOS to make a higher standard of "FE" for example and raise the bar. Engine and Oil MFG's can do crazy things that are stacking the deck in their favor when doing oil and destructive demo tests and literature. Factories do not void warranty due to the mix oil used. It's up to the shop that is submitting the claim to look for seizure evidence such as metal transfer, and rod discoloration. Neither of these are a sure sign of improperly mixed oil, or poor oil quality. There is no way of determining what oil was used. Spectrum anaylisis? Sure, if there is mixed fuel remaining in the tank, but this doesn't ever happen. A customer will tell you whatever you want to hear. Bottom line is that you can use whatever oil you want, mixed however you want, and as long as the breakage is a part or craftsmanship defect it will be covered. Do you have any real world expierence pertaining to what we are discussing? |
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I don't have the longest E-Peter, that's for sure, but do any of you experts know if the product sold as "50 Fuel" is good stuff? I sure like using it, and have recommended it to friends, so I hope I'm not screwing up by doing so. I run all Stihl equipment if that matters.
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I don't have the longest E-Peter, that's for sure, but do any of you experts know if the product sold as "50 Fuel" is good stuff? I sure like using it, and have recommended it to friends, so I hope I'm not screwing up by doing so. I run all Stihl equipment if that matters.
Just got a case in last week. Doing tests as we speak. I'll have to get back with results. |
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I don't have the longest E-Peter, that's for sure, but do any of you experts know if the product sold as "50 Fuel" is good stuff? I sure like using it, and have recommended it to friends, so I hope I'm not screwing up by doing so. I run all Stihl equipment if that matters.
Just got a case in last week. Doing tests as we speak. I'll have to get back with results. Thanks much! Man, that stuff is soooooooooooo handy to use/store/carry. 
Their website says it is the "D" rating, so it should be GTG. 
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Skirt clearance is determined by piston material. A cast piston thermally expands less than a forged piston for example. That's why you would run a tighter skirt clearance for a cast piston. Are you saying all 2 stroke pistons are made the same? The major manufaturers skirt clearances differ .001, and have a margin of .002. You didn't answer the question. There is more than skirt clearances that make one piston different then the other. Next we'll be talking piston pin locations because of stroke. 
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I don't have the longest E-Peter, that's for sure, but do any of you experts know if the product sold as "50 Fuel" is good stuff? I sure like using it, and have recommended it to friends, so I hope I'm not screwing up by doing so. I run all Stihl equipment if that matters.
Just got a case in last week. Doing tests as we speak. I'll have to get back with results. Thanks much! Man, that stuff is soooooooooooo handy to use/store/carry.
Their website says it is the "D" rating, so it should be GTG. OK, someone school me. What is "50" fuel ?? |
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That is 32 parts gas 1 part oil all jetting being the same if you run that in a 50-1 you are not getting enough gas.This causes a LEAN AIR FUEL mixture and you could and probably will sieze it!!! Yup. The ratio is determined by the lubricity of the OIL. But its not like every kind of machine is listed on the bottle so if I have a boat motor thats a really old off brand, old enough to require lead additive where do I find that on the bottle? Get my point yet? I guess it's over your head. Wow, an old 2-cycle boat motor that requires leaded fuel? Must be before hardened valve seats. I think you're going over most of our heads. I don't understand how a motor can call for a certain given mix, and then you can just use whatever the bottle says for another given mix. The last bottle of oil I bought broke down several ratios. How is it that I can just pick one and go with it regardless of that the manufacturer's suggested ratio is? Heck, you could pick any ratio you want and slap it on a bottle. If your oil bottle lists different mix ratios, I would start buying a different brand. Show me a bottle that doesn't. Stihl high performance oil 2.6 oz bottle makes one gallon at 50:1 and does not list any other mix ratio's |
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OK, someone school me. What is "50" fuel ?? This thread will go another 20 pages now
click me |
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That is 32 parts gas 1 part oil all jetting being the same if you run that in a 50-1 you are not getting enough gas.This causes a LEAN AIR FUEL mixture and you could and probably will sieze it!!! Yup. The ratio is determined by the lubricity of the OIL. But its not like every kind of machine is listed on the bottle so if I have a boat motor thats a really old off brand, old enough to require lead additive where do I find that on the bottle? Get my point yet? I guess it's over your head. Wow, an old 2-cycle boat motor that requires leaded fuel? Must be before hardened valve seats. I think you're going over most of our heads. I don't understand how a motor can call for a certain given mix, and then you can just use whatever the bottle says for another given mix. The last bottle of oil I bought broke down several ratios. How is it that I can just pick one and go with it regardless of that the manufacturer's suggested ratio is? Heck, you could pick any ratio you want and slap it on a bottle. If your oil bottle lists different mix ratios, I would start buying a different brand. Show me a bottle that doesn't. Stihl high performance oil 2.6 oz bottle makes one gallon at 50:1 and does not list any other mix ratio's 
You're killing me. |
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I don't have the longest E-Peter, that's for sure, but do any of you experts know if the product sold as "50 Fuel" is good stuff? I sure like using it, and have recommended it to friends, so I hope I'm not screwing up by doing so. I run all Stihl equipment if that matters.
Just got a case in last week. Doing tests as we speak. I'll have to get back with results. Thanks much! Man, that stuff is soooooooooooo handy to use/store/carry.
Their website says it is the "D" rating, so it should be GTG. OK, someone school me. What is "50" fuel ?? It's quart cans of pre-mixed gas and synthetic oil, without ethanol, and with a stabilizer. This is a newcomer brand, not the exact stuff I have and use, but their website came up first. Edit: This is the stuff I use. I notice the one above even ripped off their color scheme on the cans. Oh well, maybe competition will lower the price a little. |
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I don't have the longest E-Peter, that's for sure, but do any of you experts know if the product sold as "50 Fuel" is good stuff? I sure like using it, and have recommended it to friends, so I hope I'm not screwing up by doing so. I run all Stihl equipment if that matters.
Just got a case in last week. Doing tests as we speak. I'll have to get back with results. Thanks much! Man, that stuff is soooooooooooo handy to use/store/carry.
Their website says it is the "D" rating, so it should be GTG. OK, someone school me. What is "50" fuel ?? It's quart cans of pre-mixed gas and synthetic oil, without ethanol, and with a stabilizer. This is a newcomer brand, not the exact stuff I have and use, but their website came up first. Edit: This is the stuff I use. I notice the one above even ripped off their color scheme on the cans. Oh well, maybe competition will lower the price a little. Thank you ! Seems like a good product for people not needing large quantities. A bit pricey bus does look very convenient and handy !
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. Thank you ! Seems like a good product for people not needing large quantities. A bit pricey bus does look very convenient and handy !
You're welcome.
I found it at Menard's (like Home Depot, only regional) last fall for $2.31/qt. on sale. I bought them out, then wrote the date purchased on the cans with marker. They claim a two year shelf life. Considering the small amount used each year it's really not too expensive––especially in states where you can't buy fuel without ethanol, as repair costs are high. 
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