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Posted: 5/16/2003 7:38:04 PM EDT
[#1]
I have to agree that it was a great movie, but the rave scene was a complete waste of time. Now I just have to wait for the next one.[:)]
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Posted: 5/16/2003 9:33:02 PM EDT
[#2]
OK, here's my theory:
Neo is the savior, but not of Zion. The Matrix has been mining the Christian mythos relentlessly. Everyone assumes Neo is there as the redeemer figure for the humans, the Jesus role for Trinity and Morpheus and Zion. But what if he's there to redeem...the machines? The AI figures like Agent Smith are, in the Cartesian sense, sentient--they think, therefore they are. But they may or may not have free choice. Neo seems to have infected Agent Smith with choice. A great responsibility, a burden, and a gift. What will Agent Smith make of it? What if Neo's purpose in The Matrix is to give choice to the AI, to offer them the chance for a moral choice? What if the purpose of the matrix isn't the control of humans, but rather an elaborate illusion that presents the AI with free will? Both the matrix and the illusion of the real world of zion are systems designed to lead AI to free will? "Woah." --Neo |
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Posted: 5/16/2003 9:51:47 PM EDT
[#3]
This is what I got out of it:
Neo (the one) is just an abberation of the Matrixs programming. Like the Architect said only 99% of the population accepts the Matix as real. The rest are the ones who "wake up" and go to zion. The one is either the "ultimate" abberation or specifically put there by the Matrix. The first Matrix was perfect, everyone lived a perfect life. Obviousley most people rejected it. The second Matrix was filled with strife. Most people rejected this one too. Then The Oracle came along. Along with the Architect she made the Matrix as perfect as humans would allow. There were 5 Zions before the one we see in the movie and subsequently 5 "The Ones". The Ones purpose is to choose whether to restart Zion by picking 7 men and 16 women or to not restart it and kill the entire human race. Im not sure if restarting Zion also restarts the Matrix, sort of a HD reboot. What I dont get is why The One has a choice at all. Neo picked destruction of the entire human race over restarting Zion by going out the left door and saving Trinity. This also apparently destroyed the Architect and the Matrixs core. I dont get why the Matrix didnt come to an end as soon as the building blew up. So they have like 12 hours to prevent Zion from being destroyed a 6th time and to save the human race. If I read the plot right either way all the humans the Matrix has enslaved are fucked and the ones in Zion are the only humans that will survive. |
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Posted: 5/16/2003 10:20:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Spoilers>>
I don't think everything the architect is saying is absolutely the truth. First up he said there was no way Neo could save Trinity. Well, he did. I'm not so sure everything he said wasn't an attempt to get Neo to do what he wants him to do. Alot of people are thinking "the real world" is just another level of the Matrix because of Neo's power there at the end. If that is true then there is no need for the Sentinel army, everyone in Zion could just be deleted and restarted with new members. The thing with Neo needing to choose the people to restart Zion is bogus IMO. If Neo has a special ability to control the machine world in the Matrix, why could he not have the same ability in a lesser sense in the real world? He couldn't bend reality, or move faster etc, but he could have some type of control over machines with his gift. We have not yet found out why he has the abilities in the Matrix. Obviously has some kind of extraordinary control over machines or electronics, especially when jacked right into them. Outside the matrix he could very well still exert some control over machines in his presence. That may be what happened at the end... My personal theory at this point is along those lines, guess we'll all find out after the next movie. Could be just about anything, lol.... Spoilers>>>> |
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Posted: 5/16/2003 10:22:38 PM EDT
[#5]
I think I got it figured out. It took me three days but here it is.
Neo and others like in the past are not only an abberation of the Matrix, but a by-product of humanity. Eventually someone like Neo pops up from the population. The french dude was almost like Neo, but took a different path. To deal with this problem of "The One" poping up once in a blue moon, The Oracle created a solution by making Zion and having it's people search for a Messiah. Once found he goes through the motions thinking he is "special" and going to destroy the Matrix. He eventually ends up meeting The Architect who spills the beans that it's all been an elaborate systems trap and part of the master plan to dispose of people like him and to maintain control of people who think they have control such as the people in Zion. It's a continuing screening loop. Like the french dude said, choices are set by people in power. The slaves are the ones who choose. Either way they loose. It doesn't matter which door Neo picked. Zion is destroyed and it will be repopulated again by the Oracle or whoever to start the search again for the next "One". Neo is irrelavent. The Architect isn't dead. The reason why Zion is destroyed over and over again is because if the people found out that The One can't do poo poo about getting rid of the Matrix they will start search for other options. Zion needs to be destoryed before it becomes too populated, free thinking, and powerful. It's all about control. Hated the stupid Morpheus speech and the rave scenes. Hated the Zion set and the stuid ass Star Trek costumes they wore. Zion deserved to be destroyed. It has no place in the Matrix world. I don't understand how poorly dressed cavemens could operate machines and computers! |
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Posted: 5/16/2003 10:36:04 PM EDT
[#6]
The french dude wasn't human, he was an rogue program along with most of his men unless I'm mistaken...
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Posted: 5/16/2003 10:38:27 PM EDT
[#7]
If I recall correctly the Architect said Trinitu will die. He didnt say when. Theres still another movie. I was kind of disappointed Neo has some sort of "psychic" power in the real world. I dont know why he has the powers in the Matrix but they dont jive with what appears to happen when he bends reality. Like where did his hand really go when he stuck it into Trinity in the matrix view?
What he did to the sentinels at the end looked alot like the EM pulse the ships can send out. Im pretty sure the french dude was a program not a person. I dont think any of the "people" who knew Neo for what he was were people, they were all programs. |
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Posted: 5/16/2003 10:40:03 PM EDT
[#8]
As far as cavemen operating machines, remember what the councelor said, people dont care how shit works as long as it does. Remember the Zion controllers in the white room? Theres obviousley a tech superior class of people in Zion. What we saw was merely the masses.
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Posted: 5/16/2003 10:43:58 PM EDT
[#9]
I dont get how those twins did what they did. They were programs right? So they were able to make themselves insubstantial. Dont forget, when Neo and company are jacked into the Matrix they arent really there. Its a digital representation. Which is why they can bend reality because they know they are not bound by the laws of the Matrix. What I dont get is what limits the extent of their power. Obviousley Neo is just a stronger program of himself then Trinity is of herself.
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Posted: 5/16/2003 10:44:18 PM EDT
[#10]
There is another possibility. The Architect could have designed a Matrix within a Matrix for extra protection so the reason why Neo has powers in the "Real World" is because the the "Real World" is really just another matrix. Could be. But then again the writers of the storying could be going stupid crazy and coming up with dumb ideas to make the story work. How can there be another movie unless Neo is really special? Didn't the Architect himself said something about this latest Neo being a little faster. Hmmm.
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Posted: 5/16/2003 10:47:17 PM EDT
[#11]
I dont think there is a Matrix inside a Matrix. If there is its a cheesy cop out on the part of the writers. I think the one gets stronger everytime a new one emerges. Like a newer more powerful version.
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Posted: 5/17/2003 12:50:12 AM EDT
[#12]
Also, what is Smith's role in all this?
He tries to take over Neo's body/mind in the Matrix, but why? Only to get rid of him, or would that then allow Smith to leave the Matrix into Neo's body, is that significant? When the infected-Smith in Zion is about to stab Neo, he has cut open his own hand. Is that just to feel real pain, see real blood, or is it that he hopes to cut Neo and infect Neo's blood with his own? Does that also take over Neo's body? Also of interest is that in the end infected-Smith is in the same coma Neo is in it appears. Is it because he also stopped the Sentinels about to kill him during the battle with the ships that were wiped out? If not how and why did he survive. The sentinels wouldn't have known he was a program in a human body. He's a rogue program, they wouldn't stop to listen to a groveling human they are about to kill. He either escaped, or killed the sentinels. Or somehow he is working for/with them and just wounded himself to stay in cover. I don't think so. I think perhaps he may have similar abilities to Neo in the real world, for some reason. And another thing, did anyone happen to count the members of the Zion Council? They are the only old people I saw, there aren't 23 (I think that was the number) of them are there? If so perhaps they were the 23 or however many people chosen to rebuild Zion the last time, the people Neo is supposed to choose? Interesting idea, that one council guy sounded a bit like he knew more than he was letting on, that or he was a machine sympathizer traitor or something... Just some random thinking I've been doing about it all. Too much crap that is unanswered, can't wait for the next movie. Which darn well better spell out what the heck is really going on, and what reality really is. |
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Posted: 5/17/2003 6:35:18 AM EDT
[#13]
-I have to say this movie was horrible..Very little plot.. unrealistic fight scenes which got boring after 10 mins. and what was witht he rave?- just filling time-...
I was defintaley dissapointed.. |
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Posted: 5/17/2003 8:29:34 AM EDT
[#14]
From the preview of Revolutions and what was said in Reloaded Smith and Neo are somehow connected and are quite similar. Smith wasnt able to take over Neo however.
Now that you mention it that is a good theory about how the infected guy survived, by using the same power Neo did. How did a human get infected by what is apparently a computer virus tho? And why does Neo suddenly have this new power in the real world? |
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Posted: 5/17/2003 9:05:30 AM EDT
[#15]
I thought this sucked, and I feel like I wasted $8. I could have been at home on ARFCOM.
I really loved the Matrix, because 1) It was a cool story with a Christ figure and all that. You really wanted to see these guys kick ass. The transformation of Neo to "the One" was, well, inspiring. 2) The effects rocked! The first scene, where Trinity starts kicking butt was amazing, and it just kept going from there. I really hated the Matrix:Reloaded because 1) I didn't give a rat's hairy ass about any of the characters. All the mystery was gone. We know Neo is the One, we know he and Trinity hook up. We know Morpheous is still this fanatical believer. They don't give us anything to really care about. The best scenes were Morpheous' speech before the rave and the one with the Architect. 2) The effects were old news. Really long, boring fight scenes. "Ok, we get the idea; lots of agents; I understand, really." The fights with computer generated characters were cool, and they were very good technically, IMHO. But they just kept going and going and going. The whole deal with flying just wasn't cool anymore. Ok, so Neo is superman. Good for him. More than one flying scene doesn't add anything to the movie. 3) Kill somebody, for God's sake! All that butt kicking, and Neo couldn't even take out those second rate bad guys. It's an R rated movie, folks, have at it! 4) The annoying French guy, the "dessert", the kiss in the bathroom, and the whole restaurant scene in general. [b]WTF????[/b] That was so pointless. |
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Posted: 5/17/2003 9:11:14 AM EDT
[#16]
Some people get it...some people never will.
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Posted: 5/17/2003 9:17:35 AM EDT
[#17]
I loved that scene with the cake. Also its hard to kill people when youre fighting a computer program, thats kind of the point. I cant think of at least 2 "people" who got shot in the head though.
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Posted: 5/17/2003 10:59:38 AM EDT
[#18]
The reason Neo can now control the machines is that when he entered [b]THE ROOM[/b], he was changed. Still human, but not quite all human. Listen to what The Architect says when Neo first enters [b]THE ROOM[/b].
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Posted: 5/17/2003 11:05:17 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: The reason Neo can now control the machines is that when he entered [b]THE ROOM[/b], he was changed. Still human, but not quite all human. Listen to what The Architect says when Neo first enters [b]THE ROOM[/b]. what did he say? |
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Posted: 5/17/2003 11:18:46 AM EDT
[#20]
I think Smith was able to leave the Matrix partly because of whatever was imprinted on him from Neo in the first movie, but mainly because he took over the mind/code of the person the then hardlined back into.
The people that jack into the Matrix are having their minds basically converted into code, becoming a program in effect. There is really no reason why a program then could not hardline back into their mind. Especially if it had already take over their mind/code there in the matrix. Remember, the guy he took over still looked like Smith in the Matrix because that is Smith's residual self image. He has in effect taken over that guys mind, probably still sharing whatever keycode allows them to return to the right body. So there is no reason why he could not travel back into their body? None that I can come up with anyway, it's plausible in the storyline to me... It would be one thing if any agent just picked up the ringing hardline. They would have tried that before if it would have worked. The thing is Smith took over the program code/mind of the person who's body was back in the real world, allowing Smith to hardline back into it... |
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Posted: 5/17/2003 11:22:41 AM EDT
[#21]
I think the twist is going to be similar to the "13th Floor". The real world we see is actually another matrix of some sort. Why the machines are continuing to tunnel beyond "zion" I dunno.
I have a problem with the Christianity innuendos in this movie. ZION in the Bible is a metaphor for God's holy government. The rave scene indicates that “zion” was worth fighting for not for wholesome goodness, the survival of families, love, joy and happiness [I](no, not the hippie peace, love joy stuff)[/I], but it was rather for the survival of pleasure of the flesh, sex, immorality (drugs?) and so forth. Complete blasphemy if you ask me, but then who now a days cares right? Anyhow, all I care about it finding what the twist to the movie is, the rest is just junk to me now. The first movie was better. |
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Posted: 5/17/2003 1:32:15 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Some people get it...some people never will. ...are you "The One" who gets it? [;D] If YOU get it, tell ME what IT is BEFORE I take my Wife out to the show next Friday night, will ya? |
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Posted: 5/17/2003 1:47:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: I think the twist is going to be similar to the "13th Floor". The real world we see is actually another matrix of some sort. Why the machines are continuing to tunnel beyond "zion" I dunno. I have a problem with the Christianity innuendos in this movie. ZION in the Bible is a metaphor for God's holy government. The rave scene indicates that “zion” was worth fighting for not for wholesome goodness, the survival of families, love, joy and happiness [I](no, not the hippie peace, love joy stuff)[/I], but it was rather for the survival of pleasure of the flesh, sex, immorality (drugs?) and so forth. Complete blasphemy if you ask me, but then who now a days cares right? Anyhow, all I care about it finding what the twist to the movie is, the rest is just junk to me now. The first movie was better. Just saw the movie. Remember the choice neo made. He chose to save the one person he loves (trinity) over saving all the humans in the matrix AND Zion. In other words, he chose to save one person over the rest of humanity. The architect made a point of saying neo couldn't save trinity. The achitect also said Neo was prepared to save humanity through love of one, which was different from the previous 5 interations of the matrix. The rave scene was stupid, but I think it was making a point...could be related to the quotes above. The 100 smith scene was good, even though everyone here has been bagging on it. Agent smith has infiltrated the real world of the humans. Neo has also infiltrated the real world of the machines, by sensing and destroying the sentinals he proves it. |
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Posted: 5/17/2003 2:00:24 PM EDT
[#24]
One thing most don't realize about The Matrix movies is they are full of different meanings. Take like when the Architect said Trinity would die....she did. Trinity was dead, Neo brought her back. Just like in the first one when the Oracle told Neo he was waiting for something "your next life maybe, who knows". Foreshadowing at its best, Neo did die and when he came back he was The One. I'm very interested to see what happens next, things are about to get very intense. I'll be trying to figure this one out for months.
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Posted: 5/17/2003 2:02:46 PM EDT
[#25]
Im going to see it next week. I dont go to movies when they open crowds and me dont go well. I also will go very early, I dont pay 5 dollars to hear children cry, I can hear it at walmart for free.
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Posted: 5/17/2003 5:47:08 PM EDT
[#26]
I saw this flick today and now my brain feels like it's in a jar.
[8D] |
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Posted: 5/17/2003 9:28:58 PM EDT
[#27]
The Glock 18 and the UMP were badass. Morpheus even sports a P99 which was cool too.
What was the deal with the spoon? |
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Posted: 5/17/2003 9:30:39 PM EDT
[#28]
when neo went to see the oracle in the first episode a young boy showed him how to bend a spoon.
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Posted: 5/18/2003 4:54:16 AM EDT
[#29]
When the heroes square off against the evil french dude, evil french dude said something about respecting one's predecessors. Therefore, I think is in one of "The Ones" from the past.
He still exists because he hijacked the keymaker and is hiding in his own bubble universes within the Matrix. At the end, Neo said he feels that machines. Much like what Agent Smith said about being able to feel Neo within the Matrix right before their big fight scene. Oh and Neo didn't run (or fly) because of ego. Plus, to him, Smith was just another agent at the time. Getting back to Neo at the end. After it's all said and down they mentioned that the squids were not connected to the core, free roaming AIs. Smith has found a way to control machines outside of the Matrix, much like the human body that he took over. I didn't expect anything more than majour ass kicking, it's what this part should have been and that's what it was. Sense of identity was the first part. Sense of purpose was the second movie. Fulfillment will be the third. |
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Posted: 5/18/2003 6:10:30 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: Oh yeah, and I'd love for Trinity to bear my children! [url]http://www.ciudadfutura.com/matrix/carrie/cam_m03.jpg[/url] [url]http://www.musimax.net/carrie/c3.jpg[/url] [red]The character, yes. The actress, no.[/red] Why not? IMHO she's gorgeous in every movie I've seen her in. I don't know what kind of person she is IRL, but if she has a great personality, who cares if she looks like hell without the makeup? |
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Posted: 5/18/2003 6:55:02 PM EDT
[#31]
I saw the show tonight and, I thought it was pretty good
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Posted: 5/18/2003 7:06:13 PM EDT
[#32]
The movie was the shit itself and in person, but the ending was TOTAL crap. To be concluded? BAAH.
And do you folks notice something? Trinity has the same face when she's in pain as she does when she's in orgasm, and yet the same one when she's in death. What's with that? ;P |
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Posted: 5/18/2003 7:29:23 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: The movie was the shit itself and in person, but the ending was TOTAL crap. To be concluded? BAAH. |
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Posted: 5/18/2003 8:01:40 PM EDT
[#34]
I'm going with way over-hyped, lots of cool action and a very weak plot. Worth the $ 6 but the first movie was better.
If the future is a Rave at the center of the earth we are all better off in the Matrix !!! |
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Posted: 5/18/2003 8:14:26 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: The Glock 18 and the UMP were badass. Morpheus even sports a P99 which was cool too. What was the deal with the spoon? ... the [url=http://members.cox.net/stevenaz1/Winston_Photos/thereisnospoon.wav]Spoon[/url] |
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Posted: 5/18/2003 8:26:38 PM EDT
[#36]
Neo has the ability to manipulate the Matrix because in his first life, as Mr. Anderson, he was a talented computer hacker. So from the start, he was already damn good at getting into programming code and getting it to do things it wasn't supposed to. As he spent more time in the Matrix, his powers grew.
Kinda like when you learn to drive. "OK, I should turn the steering wheel this much, push the brake pedal this hard, watch out for the car pulling out over there..." After you have driven a car for a while, it becomes automatic, second nature. Almost as if you're a...machine?!?!? |
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Posted: 5/18/2003 9:15:48 PM EDT
[#37]
-Do not try to bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead, try and realize the truth.
-What truth? -There is no spoon. Then you will realize that it's not the spoon that bends, it's mearly yourself. |
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Posted: 5/18/2003 9:21:02 PM EDT
[#38]
OK, time to inject some dumb into this post:
What if the "orgasm" cake was really just a "bowel explosion" cake? Maybe she had to take a dump... |
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Posted: 5/18/2003 9:24:23 PM EDT
[#39]
Nah because afterwards that chick in the white dress was giving him head.
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Posted: 5/18/2003 10:29:58 PM EDT
[#40]
Saw it this evening, I liked it. The FX were excellent, but the story kinda fell apart. And like others, what the hell was that conversaton with the architect all about?
waterdog |
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Posted: 5/18/2003 10:38:32 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Saw it this evening, I liked it. The FX were excellent, but the story kinda fell apart. And like others, what the hell was that conversaton with the architect all about? waterdog Basically, he was telling Neo that while he thinks he's special and that the fight for Zion and liberation is a new struggle, it's just a recurring flaw in the matrix that has happened five times before. In short, the "real world" is just another iteration of the matrix and their destinies are not as free or self-determined as they think. Neo rejects that, and then the movie ends. |
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Posted: 5/18/2003 11:54:11 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: OK, time to inject some dumb into this post: What if the "orgasm" cake was really just a "bowel explosion" cake? Maybe she had to take a dump... That's what I thought it was. Otherwise why did she get up and leave? |
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Posted: 5/19/2003 12:24:47 AM EDT
[#43]
Because she was embarrased, wouldnt you be if you had an orgasm in the middle of dinner?
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Posted: 5/19/2003 12:33:02 AM EDT
[#44]
WHat is the actresses name who told neo to kiss her like he kisses trinity?
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Posted: 5/19/2003 12:37:48 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: WHat is the actresses name who told neo to kiss her like he kisses trinity? Monica Bellucci [img]http://www.mondoscuola.it/ricreazione/download/wallpapers/donne800200224121428.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 5/19/2003 3:43:55 AM EDT
[#46]
Am I the only one who thinks is was about Black against White? All of zion is black and all of the agent dudes and others like them are white. There was an unproportionate amount of black people in zion, why?
The whole black and white thing threw me off. |
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Posted: 5/19/2003 5:00:46 AM EDT
[#47]
stop the machine works at zion,... see what happens.
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Posted: 5/19/2003 5:41:51 AM EDT
[#48]
OK, I know better....I went to the movie with my wife....the movie analyzer.....
Now my brain hurts....this thread isn't helping any.... |
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Posted: 5/19/2003 6:17:59 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: I gotta go with Sweep on this one. It was way overhyped and though the Effects will blow you away the story seemed kinda empty... I like kung fu; but not a whole movie of it. I'm gonna be the first to say it; the first one was a better movie. Ditto. I fell asleep. To the detriment to BenDover's Hollywood Boycott, I placated the wife and went to see it Saturday night. What a waste of my time. It reminded me of Blade 2. Gratuitous special effects with a loose story line trying to tie the action sequences. Tweet kept elbowing me because I was snoring loudly. |
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Posted: 5/19/2003 6:52:56 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Am I the only one who thinks is was about Black against White? All of zion is black and all of the agent dudes and others like them are white. There was an unproportionate amount of black people in zion, why? The whole black and white thing threw me off. First off, the reason there might be more black than white in Zion is simple: everyone in Zion is descended from the 23 people the previous One brought with him from the Matrix to restart Zion. If the One happened to be black, he would pick more black people than white and there would be a population imbalance. As for all the good guys being black and all the bad guys being white...well, I think you're forgetting the fact that the MAIN CHARACTER, Neo, is white, as well as Trinity and the lead Chancellor in the Council. The Agents are white most likely because the people who programmed the Matrix originally were white. |
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