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Posted: 9/8/2018 8:21:25 PM EDT
[#1]
No matter how good one is or how good they think they are there will ALWAYS be someone better or faster or more accurate because much like golf shooting is a sport that can never be won, only played. I never went into a match convinced that I was going to dominate, I went into every match determined to do the best I could and let the scores fall where they may.
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Posted: 9/8/2018 8:23:32 PM EDT
[#2]
You need to do less.
What that guy knows, and you don't is competition shooting is about doing less. He is likely not that much faster, just more efficient. Have a good draw that presents the gun on target, then there is no extra time aligning the sights. Good grip where the sight picture returns to target after a shot is fired. no extra time regripping, and aligning sights. Confident in where the sights are, is where the shot will land. No extra time waiting around to confirm a hit (checking target) before moving on to next target. |
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Posted: 9/8/2018 8:27:43 PM EDT
[#3]
 How to shoot a Pistol with world champion shooter, Jerry Miculek |
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Posted: 9/8/2018 9:04:25 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No matter how good one is or how good they think they are there will ALWAYS be someone better or faster or more accurate because much like golf shooting is a sport that can never be won, only played. I never went into a match convinced that I was going to dominate, I went into every match determined to do the best I could and let the scores fall where they may. |
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Posted: 9/8/2018 9:08:24 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You need to do less. What that guy knows, and you don't is competition shooting is about doing less. He is likely not that much faster, just more efficient. Have a good draw that presents the gun on target, then there is no extra time aligning the sights. Good grip where the sight picture returns to target after a shot is fired. no extra time regripping, and aligning sights. Confident in where the sights are, is where the shot will land. No extra time waiting around to confirm a hit (checking target) before moving on to next target. |
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Posted: 9/8/2018 9:17:30 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
I take classes regularly and excel very well at those meeting standards and usually being in the top 10% of the class with some very good shooters. Last week I decided I'd take my shot at my first competition(steel challenge) in over 6 years and I have to say I got my ass handed to me to the point of I'm in disbelief. I'm 30 seconds off of the number one guy and he's a 400lb diabetic with knee braces and could barely breath between the walking and carrying stuff to the next stage. I ran a stock glock 19 with a x300(only holsters I have are light compatible.) he ran a custom STI so as I understand the gun makes a good shooter better, I still find the complete mud hole stomped into me today inexcusable. So to my point... Did you guys who started off like me doing more of the tactics side who then tried your hand in competition also get your shit pushed in? I have until November until my next available date for competition and my type A personality is not going to allow me to get embarrassed again like this. Very humbling experience to get put in your place in a world you thought you were damn good at. Muscle memory and tactic are so ingrained it means you have to learn to turn off the tactics and switch to play. Your STI guy could borrow your equipment and still be close to what he always does. Practice and knowing how to shoot the stages has more to do with a decent score than equipment until you get into upper classes of shooters. Good luck, cause it sounds like you are hooked. 
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Posted: 9/8/2018 9:18:07 PM EDT
[#7]
I was never an earth shaker, but I was an A class Limited Division shooter in USPSA and placed in the top five at some long range matches.
I was always shocked when I thrashed professionals (police, SWAT, military, DOE) at classes or matches. I remember one defeated team said, "I can't believe we got beat by an old man and a fat guy!" Eventually you realize that B class is SWAT level shooting, and Master represents John Wick level shooting. Competition shooting made me a better shooter than any other sort of training I've had. |
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Posted: 9/8/2018 9:37:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was never an earth shaker, but I was an A class Limited Division shooter in USPSA and placed in the top five at some long range matches. I was always shocked when I thrashed professionals (police, SWAT, military, DOE) at classes or matches. I remember one defeated team said, "I can't believe we got beat by an old man and a fat guy!" Eventually you realize that B class is SWAT level shooting, and Master represents John Wick level shooting. Competition shooting made me a better shooter than any other sort of training I've had. |
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Posted: 9/8/2018 9:37:27 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is a pretty normally experience for people who don't compete, it can be even worse for high HSLD who never compete. Muscle memory and tactic are so ingrained it means you have to learn to turn off the tactics and switch to play. Your STI guy could borrow your equipment and still be close to what he always does. Practice and knowing how to shoot the stages has more to do with a decent score than equipment until you get into upper classes of shooters. Good luck, cause it sounds like you are hooked. |
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Posted: 9/8/2018 9:41:32 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was never an earth shaker, but I was an A class Limited Division shooter in USPSA and placed in the top five at some long range matches. I was always shocked when I thrashed professionals (police, SWAT, military, DOE) at classes or matches. I remember one defeated team said, "I can't believe we got beat by an old man and a fat guy!" Eventually you realize that B class is SWAT level shooting, and Master represents John Wick level shooting. Competition shooting made me a better shooter than any other sort of training I've had. Well I plan on shooting competitions more because I learned today that I suck at this and I'm not one to settle on sucking. |
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Posted: 9/8/2018 9:42:40 PM EDT
[#11]
yup! have taken a few classes and did decent in a few local matches even but every once in a while a few guys who shoot a bunch of major matches show up and just blow everyone away. you can sit back and watch them work. obviously the split times are faster and reloads are faster and smoother but where I notice the most time difference is not necessarily the shooting itself but everything else in addition to the shooting that is much faster and efficient. they are able to see and take advantage of better angles to shoot from and better time management like when to reload or how fast to run or walk.
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Posted: 9/8/2018 10:12:26 PM EDT
[#12]
I don’t think there’s anything that will get you better at shooting a handgun (or any gun for that matter) than competition. Getting into gun games will expose your weaknesses like no other. Just stay humble, take notes on where you struggle and work those things at practice between matches. Even if you’re a “tactical” guy there are exactly zero situations you’ll run into where it’s beneficial to be slower and less accurate.
Live fire is essential but dry fire practice is what separates the men from the boys. Draw(multiple variants...I.e. surrender, spin, step), standing reloads, 2 step reloads, target transition and moving into/out of shooting positions can all be honed to near perfection without firing a round, just make sure you’re confirming with live fire. |
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Posted: 9/9/2018 1:51:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're absolutely right about being hooked. And right about how to shoot the stages. Left to right is faster than close to far back to close ect... My head involved shoot the fuckers that are close first and then deal with the farthest last. You can gain some tips.. The easiest way to pick up stage craft is to make sure you watch the good shooters from the moment they see the stage till they shoot it. Just pick out whom ever won the last match and follow them, if it squads, there is normally an A squad push your way into it. Most of them will be more than happy to share their insight, so ask questions while you are taping up targets. Ask the match workers if they need help to tear down the match, more you help the more people will want to keep you around. Good luck |
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Posted: 9/9/2018 2:24:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Oh yeah. I was tacticool and did all those classes and got really good at it. Made fun of competition shooters because "targets don't shoot back", "rules are dumb", and all that stuff.
Finally got ragged into trying competition and got my ass handed to me by people shooting plain old glocks. I kept going back for abuse and found most shooters to be very helpful. Eventually I ditched my tacticool pistol for a G34 with Dawson sights. I've still got a long way to go, but my pistol shooting is light years ahead of where I was. Every now and then another tacticool shooter will show up to a comp and make excuses all day long (just like I did). Maybe 1 out of 10 of them will come back again. I didn't forget how to scan and assess, and didn't develop range scars. It actually made me better when going to one of the tactical pistol classes because my speed from the holster to target is so much faster now than it was. When a new shooter asks me about training beyond the basic pistol classes, I usually suggest they find a local pistol match. It is some of the cheapest and effective training out there for someone who wants to get faster and more accurate with a pistol. |
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Posted: 9/9/2018 3:06:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh yeah. I was tacticool and did all those classes and got really good at it. Made fun of competition shooters because "targets don't shoot back", "rules are dumb", and all that stuff. Finally got ragged into trying competition and got my ass handed to me by people shooting plain old glocks. I kept going back for abuse and found most shooters to be very helpful. Eventually I ditched my tacticool pistol for a G34 with Dawson sights. I've still got a long way to go, but my pistol shooting is light years ahead of where I was and still have a ways to go. Every now and then another tacticool shooter will show up to a comp and make excuses all day long (just like I did). Maybe 1 out of 10 of them will come back again. I didn't forget how to scan and assess, and didn't develop range scars. It actually made me better when going to one of the tactical pistol classes because my speed from the holster to target is so much faster now than it was. When a new shooter asks my about training beyond the basic pistol classes, I usually suggest they find a local pistol match. It is some of the cheapest and effective training out there for someone who wants to get faster and more accurate with a pistol. I am going to use the competitions for when I go to classes for the tactics side. More proficient shooter all around. |
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Posted: 9/9/2018 10:20:26 PM EDT
[#16]
If you want to become a better shooter and more competent gun handler, shoot competition. All of the classes in the world will not make you efficient. Competitive shooting is about not wasting time with a bunch of useless movement. Almost all of the "tactical classes" teach excessive wasted movement.
"Tactical shooting" is a complete misnomer. All tactical shooting is, is applying the basic fundamentals of shooting in unconventional conditions. If you can't hit a static target while standing static, what makes you think you can hit a moving target while you are moving. If you can't consistently put 5 rounds in a 2 inch circle at 5 to 7 yards on demand then you can't make a 20 yard head shot - practice fundamentals. Nothing cracks me up more than the tactical Timmy's with their battle belts, plate carriers and light bearing Glocks who can't hit water from a boat. I started USPSA as an LE firearms instructor and got my ass handed to me. I thought I could shoot, but I was wrong. I'm currently A class in Prod and Limited. I still don't think I can shoot all that well compared to my competition shooting buddies. |
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Posted: 9/9/2018 10:45:47 PM EDT
[#17]
You mention having to reload. In Steel Challenge. That's a pretty big problem. You miss one shot, your time on that stage is trash. So, figure out why you're missing so much. Either you're trying to go too fast, or something else. Are you at the point where you can Call Your Shots yet? I'm going to guess no cause you wouldn't be missing that much if you were only releasing the shot when you know it's good.
Buddy up to some of the good shooters, they'll give you tips and advice. Get video of yourself shooting, you'll be amazed at some of the dumb stuff you're doing and don't even know it. You won't know what to practice until you know what to practice. Anyway, to answer your question: I took some carbine courses 15 years ago as prep for getting into 3-Gun. They helped a lot. Most people haven't shot an AR or Shotgun from anything other than standing or sitting at a bench. Competition throws stuff like "Climb that ladder and shoot from the top rung" "climb into the car and shoot out the windows" "Lean around and under this barricade and take a 400 yard shot on your side", etc. All that said, I have seen all kinds of people show up at various matches: Military guys, cops, CoD Zombie Hunting n00b. The people that do well are the ones that practice, and not just hitting bullseyes all day. So, if the club you're at doesn't let you draw, shoot on the move, etc, find a club where you can. Or a friend with a backyard range, something. Even dry fire in the basement can do wonders on your shot transistions, draw to first shot, reloads, etc. |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 9:56:25 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: So to my point... Did you guys who started off like me doing more of the tactics side who then tried your hand in competition also get your shit pushed in? I have until November until my next available date for competition and my type A personality is not going to allow me to get embarrassed again like this. Welcome to the path of mastery. |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 10:01:24 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you want to become a better shooter and more competent gun handler, shoot competition. All of the classes in the world will not make you efficient. Competitive shooting is about not wasting time with a bunch of useless movement. Almost all of the "tactical classes" teach excessive wasted movement. "Tactical shooting" is a complete misnomer. All tactical shooting is, is applying the basic fundamentals of shooting in unconventional conditions. If you can't hit a static target while standing static, what makes you think you can hit a moving target while you are moving. If you can't consistently put 5 rounds in a 2 inch circle at 5 to 7 yards on demand then you can't make a 20 yard head shot - practice fundamentals. Nothing cracks me up more than the tactical Timmy's with their battle belts, plate carriers and light bearing Glocks who can't hit water from a boat. I started USPSA as an LE firearms instructor and got my ass handed to me. I thought I could shoot, but I was wrong. I'm currently A class in Prod and Limited. I still don't think I can shoot all that well compared to my competition shooting buddies. I'm going to get better one way or another with the equipment I have. The money I'd spend on new equipment could be used for ammo which I'd rather practice than have to get an all new setup. |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 10:05:47 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You mention having to reload. In Steel Challenge. That's a pretty big problem. You miss one shot, your time on that stage is trash. So, figure out why you're missing so much. Either you're trying to go too fast, or something else. Are you at the point where you can Call Your Shots yet? I'm going to guess no cause you wouldn't be missing that much if you were only releasing the shot when you know it's good. Buddy up to some of the good shooters, they'll give you tips and advice. Get video of yourself shooting, you'll be amazed at some of the dumb stuff you're doing and don't even know it. You won't know what to practice until you know what to practice. Anyway, to answer your question: I took some carbine courses 15 years ago as prep for getting into 3-Gun. They helped a lot. Most people haven't shot an AR or Shotgun from anything other than standing or sitting at a bench. Competition throws stuff like "Climb that ladder and shoot from the top rung" "climb into the car and shoot out the windows" "Lean around and under this barricade and take a 400 yard shot on your side", etc. All that said, I have seen all kinds of people show up at various matches: Military guys, cops, CoD Zombie Hunting n00b. The people that do well are the ones that practice, and not just hitting bullseyes all day. So, if the club you're at doesn't let you draw, shoot on the move, etc, find a club where you can. Or a friend with a backyard range, something. Even dry fire in the basement can do wonders on your shot transistions, draw to first shot, reloads, etc. My reloads were absolutely my fault for not reloading after I dropped a single shot in the previous string. Not preparing led to a lot of added time but I learned from that and it won't happen again. |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 10:07:03 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. Welcome to the path of mastery. |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 10:11:47 AM EDT
[#22]
I am also going to clear some of my wooded land to make myself a shooting range. I'm going to buy steel plates and set up stages to practice along with dry fire.
With steel challenge they have 10",12", and 24x18" plates. What is yalls theory on just training on the smaller plates or getting smaller plates to train on instead of the larger one? |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 10:19:47 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am also going to clear some of my wooded land to make myself a shooting range. I'm going to buy steel plates and set up stages to practice along with dry fire. With steel challenge they have 10",12", and 24x18" plates. What is yalls theory on just training on the smaller plates or getting smaller plates to train on instead of the larger one? Regarding the belt and gear, I eventually gave in and ordered this. Haven't regretted it at all. https://benstoegerproshop.com/bsps-boss-doh-holster-5-x-ghost-magazine-pouches-double-alpha-academy-daa-belt-deal/ |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 10:31:31 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just have 8, 10, 12, and ipsc AC steel at home. Frankly, the dry firing with a Sirt pistol helps me more than anything (when I'm disciplined enough to do it). It's boring but it also shows me what I need to work on when I do some live fire practice. Regarding the belt and gear, I eventually gave in and ordered this. Haven't regretted it at all. https://benstoegerproshop.com/bsps-boss-doh-holster-5-x-ghost-magazine-pouches-double-alpha-academy-daa-belt-deal/ I'm going run what I have gear wise for now and upgrade in the future. This is going to get expensive fast and my wife is already guarding the checkbook because she knows when I do something I go all in. |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 5:48:21 PM EDT
[#25]
Now go shoot a USPSA match.
The thing about competition is it really drives you to suck less because after a while it just gets embarrassing. |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 8:14:50 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now go shoot a USPSA match. The thing about competition is it really drives you to suck less because after a while it just gets embarrassing. |
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Posted: 9/11/2018 8:53:06 PM EDT
[#27]
So off the wall question...
Anyone looked into laser shot or laser ammo simulators? |
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Posted: 9/11/2018 9:13:00 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So off the wall question... Anyone looked into laser shot or laser ammo simulators? I know Ben half way well, he started shooting USPSA and made GrandMaster in firing 8,000 rounds by dry firing a 1/2 hour everyday. Most. Guys that make Grand Master have fired at least 250,000 rounds to get there. If you are in Centeral Texas take a couple competition shooting classes at KR Training, then dry fire 15-30 minutes a day. |
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Posted: 9/11/2018 9:19:05 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pick up Ben Stoeger's books on dry fire and some of the miniature targets from his Pro-Shop. I know Ben half way well, he started shooting USPSA and made GrandMaster in firing 8,000 rounds by dry firing a 1/2 hour everyday. Most. Guys that make Grand Master have fired at least 250,000 rounds to get there. If you are in Centeral Texas take a couple competition shooting classes at KR Training, then dry fire 15-30 minutes a day. I'm in East Texas but will travel for training. Who do you recommend at KR? |
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Posted: 9/12/2018 8:34:54 AM EDT
[#30]
As you have learned, you got to be a pretty good shot, just to suck at this sport.
Just keep this in mind your only shooting against yourself. |
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Posted: 9/12/2018 2:57:49 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll look into his books thanks! I'm in East Texas but will travel for training. Who do you recommend at KR? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Pick up Ben Stoeger's books on dry fire and some of the miniature targets from his Pro-Shop. I know Ben half way well, he started shooting USPSA and made GrandMaster in firing 8,000 rounds by dry firing a 1/2 hour everyday. Most. Guys that make Grand Master have fired at least 250,000 rounds to get there. If you are in Centeral Texas take a couple competition shooting classes at KR Training, then dry fire 15-30 minutes a day. I'm in East Texas but will travel for training. Who do you recommend at KR? Karl keeps classes to half a day, for both affordability and so you are not overwhelmed. This Sunday he is offering AT4 & AT6, both are good skill building classes. |
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Posted: 9/12/2018 6:59:51 PM EDT
[#32]
There's a video of Taran Butler training someone from the SF. As they put it, the SF guys already have all the training they need in TTPs, what they go to a competition shooter for is gunhandling/shooting skills.
Learning how to accurately shoot faster, just makes them even more effective. |
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Posted: 9/12/2018 7:23:07 PM EDT
[#33]
I am shooting my first match in about three weeks -- I'm ready to get smoked! My main goal is that I enjoy it enough to start finding local competitions to further enhance my skills, much like the OP. Wish me luck!
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Posted: 9/12/2018 7:25:44 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am shooting my first match in about three weeks -- I'm ready to get smoked! My main goal is that I enjoy it enough to start finding local competitions to further enhance my skills, much like the OP. Wish me luck! |
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Posted: 9/19/2018 11:59:26 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So off the wall question... Anyone looked into laser shot or laser ammo simulators? |
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Posted: 9/20/2018 12:45:23 AM EDT
[#36]
Competition has a very large mental game component. What you need to understand is tactical shooting is a separate skill set than competition shooting. Sure there is a good amount of crossover, but it requires skills you havent learned yet. For example if you are a good chess player it doesnt mean you are going to be good at playing Risk. Sure both have a board and pieces that you move, but the rules are totally different. You wouldn't expect to beat a grand master chess player because you beat everyone at Risk. If you plan to judge your performance in competition shooting based on performance in tactical shooting you are going to damage your mental self image which will cause you to try harder and you will perform worse. :) You dont have that skillset yet. Just because you shoot a lot you are still a novice at THIS type of shooting, you have a leg up on a guy with no experience but this is different than what you are good at. The good news is anyone can acquire the skillset with regular practice of the correct skills needed you just need to put the time in. So dont get discouraged, anyone can shoot like the ppl you were in awe of it just takes practice like anything else.
If you want to feel a little better go on youtube and look up vigilance elite channel and see a Navy Seal and tactical instructor briefly trained by Taran butler get his ass handed to him by men and women in his first 3gun match. . Although he has a great attitude and I guarantee in a year or two he will be right up there with the good shooters if he practices those skills. You can also see Taran who is a competition god (he can draw and shoot a 6 plate rack in under 2 seconds from the hip) fail at doing a room entry. Good luck and do have fun, try some uspsa too and maybe some 3gun later on. |
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Posted: 9/20/2018 12:13:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dry fire, lots of dry fire. Some ppl like the laser stuff, but I would think those would be counterproductive to shot calling since its teaching you to look for the laser dot instead of relying on the sight picture when the shot breaks. Confirming shots visually is slow. If you wanted something like that a little better would be a blowback airsoft gun with black ammo (so its harder to see and doesn't temp you to watch it). Currently dry firing is my priority. I might add in the laser because honestly, it's a full sized video game and gets you more active. Max Michelle even advocates for using one. |
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Posted: 9/24/2018 2:01:27 PM EDT
[#38]
Now that your eyes are open, consider shooting anything local just to see what you like, what the competitors are like, what equipment they use and so on. Try USPSA, IDPA, and Steel. Each will have a different feel and let you polish different skills. Just remember they are all games and some of the rules for each are beyond stupid.
Just smile and keep popping primers. You can become a gamer yet!
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Posted: 10/8/2018 11:57:22 AM EDT
[#39]
when I was serious into competition I always loved seeing people with knives on their battle belts. It pretty much showed me I was above them on the prize table before I fired a shot. I was always a decent shot, but had a bunch of old guys beat my ass handily in my first matches. I learned what to do to make myself better. It's not hard to crack into the upper middle of the pack if you can shoot and practice a little.
Then I decided I wanted to win win, so I got serious. cardio on the range so I could shoot long range winded. I learned the shit out of my dopes and off sets. I practiced dryfire easily a half hour a day, every day. Shooting well in competition is about doing the right things quickly. if your draw is clean and you get on target right away, that's better than a super fast draw with bad presentation. if you wobble all around transitioning, that slows you down. etc etc. it took real serious practice and dedication but it gets you better at tactical stuff. Sure, concealment is a slower draw than an open gun but I'm still sub 1 second from concealed even though I haven't competed in a long ass time. admitting that you suck at it is the first step. then learning the areas you suck and make them your strongest. One thing that always stuck with me was not to practice what you're already good at or enjoy. practice what you hate until you're so good at it you don't hate it anymore. |
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Posted: 10/17/2018 9:56:46 AM EDT
[#40]
OP, don't feel bad! The same thing happened to me and many others like us. I didn't know how fast a handgun could run until I went to a local match. Now I'm a master shooter and can tell you how I got here. I'm nothing special in the shooting world so maybe we have a couple of GMs on here that can help you out better than I can.
I've trained with a lot of folks to get to this point. I'll tell you who helped me the most...Robert Vogel is a freaking machine and I've never seen anyone shoot a gun so freaking fast and accurately as Robert. He helped me with speed. Proctor did a good job of explaining things, but not close to the speed of what Robert does...I mean not even close! Another GM, Steve Anderson, has a podcast and several books out. Buy these books and listen to his podcast!!! Take a class with Steve if you can. Steve caused me to approach my training like a job. I do more dry-fire practice now than I ever have. Steve is a proponent of running the gun much faster than we are comfortable with in practice (Speed Mode) and this trains us to a new normal level of speed. See an acceptable sight picture sooner and do less to see it. Then come match day, we operate in match mode and our subconscious mind is running the gun. All we do is see an acceptable sight picture and call the shot. His books and podcast will explain this in great detail. So if I had to do it all over again, I would go to Steve Anderson first and start practicing for about a year. Then I would go to Robert Vogel for a tune up. If someone would have shared this suggestion with me years ago I could have saved thousands of dollars and years of frustration and slow gains. I hope this helps Bud! Keep at it and you'll be a GM soon! |
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Posted: 10/17/2018 1:51:40 PM EDT
[#41]
3 things.
Steve Anderson is the best thing that ever happened to my shooting game. IM me and I'll send you his book, which is great, but his podcast is even better as the last poster said. 2 things you have to do in steel challenge is work on transitioning and calling your shots. Find a shot up target and staple a new one to the front. Then put it up with the back side facing you so you camnt see where your bullet holes are. From there try to call your shot, or at least determine if it was in the area you thought it was or not. Then go check and see. Do this until you can call it consistently. This will help on steel challenge because you won't wait to hear the steel to transition, you will have already called it as a hit. For transitions I would see how fast you could possibly transition from one target to the other without worrying about hits. The point is that you won't have sub .20 splits until you know what that feels like. I would see just how low you can possible go. I would do one live fire then three dry fire transitions and repeat that until you have a ton of reps and your body is used to how it feels to transition that hard. Prepare your abs if your doing this right. Finally, make sure your hips are transitioning as fast or faster than your upper body. Speedy transitions that are on point are more about the lower body than the upper. You will often know if your not doing this because you will slightly overshoot the target when transitioning HARD. Finally, have a specific goal each practice that is obtainable. One practice you might work on accuracy and not worry about speed and see how many times you can hit every single plate with no miss, again, don't bring a timer for this or care about speed. The next you might see how fast you can transition between 3 plates. Issolation of skills is super important |
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Posted: 10/18/2018 8:01:51 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP, don't feel bad! The same thing happened to me and many others like us. I didn't know how fast a handgun could run until I went to a local match. Now I'm a master shooter and can tell you how I got here. I'm nothing special in the shooting world so maybe we have a couple of GMs on here that can help you out better than I can. I've trained with a lot of folks to get to this point. I'll tell you who helped me the most...Robert Vogel is a freaking machine and I've never seen anyone shoot a gun so freaking fast and accurately as Robert. He helped me with speed. Proctor did a good job of explaining things, but not close to the speed of what Robert does...I mean not even close! Another GM, Steve Anderson, has a podcast and several books out. Buy these books and listen to his podcast!!! Take a class with Steve if you can. Steve caused me to approach my training like a job. I do more dry-fire practice now than I ever have. Steve is a proponent of running the gun much faster than we are comfortable with in practice (Speed Mode) and this trains us to a new normal level of speed. See an acceptable sight picture sooner and do less to see it. Then come match day, we operate in match mode and our subconscious mind is running the gun. All we do is see an acceptable sight picture and call the shot. His books and podcast will explain this in great detail. So if I had to do it all over again, I would go to Steve Anderson first and start practicing for about a year. Then I would go to Robert Vogel for a tune up. If someone would have shared this suggestion with me years ago I could have saved thousands of dollars and years of frustration and slow gains. I hope this helps Bud! Keep at it and you'll be a GM soon! |
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Posted: 10/18/2018 8:31:21 AM EDT
[#43]
I started competition in IDPA and was humbled.
Then tried USPSA and was humbled again. That’s the fastest and most competitive action shooting on earth right there. Isn’t the answer always “both” on Arfcom? I recommend both tactical and competition shooting. |
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Posted: 10/18/2018 9:26:55 AM EDT
[#44]
I have taken a bunch of tactical classes and find them to be good to learn tactics, and only a couple of them have actually taught me how to shoot better.
Competition is excellent for adding stress to a situation. It is about making your mind and muscles work under pressure. If I have taken every Front Sight class available, and graduated at the top of each class, I still wouldn't want to get into a gunfight with Rob Leatham. |
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Posted: 10/18/2018 4:34:16 PM EDT
[#45]
Some of the best advice I got was early on, it actually wasn't even directed at me. There was a Master in my squad, soon to be Grandmaster, and one of the other guys asked him what his load was. His response was that he wasn't going to get the guy because it didn't matter. He then went on to explain, nicely, that what matters is that a load meets the power factor and that it tracks the sights up and down consistently. After that he said, stop messing with springs and the load and just shoot and get to know the load you have; too many people in his experience were held back from tinkering with there loads looking for some light, soft, magical load.
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Posted: 10/18/2018 4:47:49 PM EDT
[#46]
OP I was in a very similar position as you a few years back. Stick with it you won't regret it!
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Posted: 10/18/2018 5:04:39 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So off the wall question... Anyone looked into laser shot or laser ammo simulators? |
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Posted: 10/18/2018 6:50:08 PM EDT
[#48]
I've tried the laser training tools, even the SIRT one where it reads the info to the tablet to tell you your splits. I don't personally recommend it because I was always looking for the laser instead of where my sights were. A big part of getting fast in steel challenge or USPSA is calling your shots and the laser training tools took that ability away I thought.
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Posted: 10/12/2019 7:59:49 PM EDT
[#49]
There is no replacement for repeating the proper technique. What you experienced is why 90 percent of police officers only shoot with us once. I guess that they are embarrassed because they think the standard training of stationery shooting with no tight time limit prepared the. For a room pistol.
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Posted: 10/12/2019 8:13:36 PM EDT
[#50]
I shot a match today, 3rd place A class.
I started shooting competition around 1987. Took off around 2007 after my 4th back surgery but have returned lately. |
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