Curious what others think about the idea of mandatory shooting every yardline for rattle battle at Perry.

In recent years, we've seen the Rattle Battle game evolve into a heavy-rifle, rapid-fire, speed-reload, prone-only, midrange match.

I'm pretty sure the AMU and USMC  fired their entire 384 rounds ONLY at the 600/500 for the last several years.

HEAVY GUN - BLAZE AWAY --- Speaking only for myself, this evolution into a prone-only, heavy-gun-only, match has diminished the competitive appeal of the game. Maybe its good that it happened, because now we know that this is where the current set of rules forces teams to go. The solid-wind-call, and blaze-away strategy is definitely the way to win the match under current rules.

SHOOT EVERY YARDLINE --- Maybe I'm just a happy-go-lucky range-idiot. But it seems to me that the game would be more fun if each team had to shoot the 300 (sitting), and the 200 (standing). Maybe require the teams to square SIX (not EIGHT) targets at the 300 and the 200, on the penalty of suffering some subtraction in score. Also, I want to emphasize that I'm not suggesting that the rules should be tweaked to transform it into a situation where winner is whoever can shoot rapid-fire offhand best. I'll admit I haven't sat down and played with the numbers doing a "what-if"  for effect on scores where every yardline is mandatory. I guess all I'm saying really is that the "burn-it-all" at-600/500 as the only-option end-game for winning rattle battle just doesn't agree with me.

TIME LIMITS --- Time for target exposure could be altered too - which might be the simplest solution. Thirty seconds exposure at 600/500, then fifty seconds at 300/200. And keep all the other existing rules.

ANECDOTE --- I recently shot a local "fun match" - 200 yard only - that roughly followed the rattle-battle format. This was a "one-man" rattle-battle match, and it required each shooter to fire at a pair of reduced full-silhouette targets from prone position (twice), and then once each at a pair of "dog" targets from sitting and offhand respectively. I actually practiced for the match. Went in there confident I could win. Only seven shooters showed for the match. Problem was, one of them was DAN LOWE. *sigh*

Dan did drop one point on one of the prone strings. And I believe he dropped four (gasp!) points on the offhand - but that was mainly because there was some confusion about whether the match director was allowing prep-time versus sighter-time for offhand, so Dan got rushed and had to load magazines or something during his prep, and then suddenly the load-and-be-ready command was given while he was still dialing dope and loading mags. And he still got more hits offhand than me.

Are Camp Perry and the CMP ready for a Combat Excellence-in-Competition Rifle Match? Would this be a worthwhile addition to the regional games?

The Army takes the scores of declared four-man teams and uses the roll-up as the team score (a "Paper" match).

Countless shooters across the nation own a 20-inch or 16-inch M16 or M4 ("M4gery") civilian analog stand-in for the service rifle.  Many shooters have never shot further than 100 yards for score, let alone in competition.  They see bullseye and roll their eyes.

Yet many are ready to plunk down ignorant money for hot-rodded optical-sighted double stack pistols to shoot IPSC speed competition, roll a Precision Rifle Series bolt action rifle; outfit themselves with Cowboy Action revolvers, lever-action rifles, and vintage-style pump shotguns (let alone the leather, costumes, and gear-hauling wagons that go with them); or buy individual Perazzi-style shotguns that cost more than my truck.

Want to shoot fast?  Invite people to bring what they own (like their rack CMP M1)?
Is it time to establish a one-day 50-shot combat match at Perry (maybe use Modern Military Rifle rules to allow them to bring anything like an AK, SKS, FAL, G3, Galil, SCAR, etc)?  This would be the standard Army Match 321 Combat Excellence-in-Competition Match with rack-grade type weapon and optic fixed at 4.5X max.  Speed and CQB requirements do NOT favor a heavy or fully-tricked-out National Match rifle.  Maybe for four points, or 6-8-10?  Shooters would NOT be required to run the Soldier suit with helmet and webbing, but rather street clothes -- no spotting scope (except to zero). Bottom of the magazine can rest on the deck (ground).

Match 321 is a run-down, meaning you actually move.

You use this target:
Attached File


4.    Match 321:  Rifle Excellence in Competition Match:  Conditions: Competitors will fire 50 rounds in four stages.

Stage 1:  400 Yard Sustained Fire Prone
                                              i.            Range: 400 yards
                                             ii.            Position: Prone
                                           iii.            Shots: 10 for record (1 magazine of 10).
                                           iv.            Target: M9 Modified. Targets will be raised in the air at the beginning of the stage and withdrawn when time has expired. Targets will be scored at the completion of each stage
                                            v.            Timing: 2 minutes
                                           vi.            Scoring: Maximum points 50-10X
                                         vii.            Competitors will be squadded one per target.
                                        viii.            Competitors will begin the stage by performing LOCK AND LOAD (magazine inserted, no round in chamber) approximately 25 yards behind the 400 yard line (say about the same as from the ready line to the firing line at Perry, or the base of the berm to the firing line if you have slope or soggy ground). Upon appearance of the targets, they will move to the 400 yard line, chamber a round (on their own) and engage their target.

Stage 2:  300 Yard Rapid Fire Prone
                                              i.            Range: 300 yards
                                             ii.            Position: Prone
                                           iii.            Shots: 10 for record (2 magazines of 5 rounds each).
                                           iv.            Target: M9 Modified. Targets will be raised in the air at the beginning of the stage and withdrawn when time has expired. Targets will be scored at the completion of each stage
                                            v.            Timing: 60 Seconds
                                           vi.            Scoring: Maximum points 50-10X
                                         vii.            Competitors will be squadded one per target.
                                        viii.            Competitors will begin the stage by performing LOCK AND LOAD (magazine inserted, no round in chamber) approximately 25 yards behind the 300 yard line. Upon appearance of the targets, they will move to the 300 yard line, chamber a round and engage their target.

Stage 3: 200 Yard Rapid Fire Kneeling
                                              i.            Range: 200 yards
                                             ii.            Position: Kneeling
                                           iii.            Shots: 10 for record (2 magazines of 5 rounds each).
                                           iv.            Target: M9 Modified. Targets will be raised in the air at the beginning of the stage and withdrawn when time has expired. Targets will be scored at the completion of each stage.
                                            v.            Timing: 50 Seconds
                                           vi.            Scoring: Maximum points 50-10X
                                         vii.            Competitors will be squadded one per target.
                                        viii.            Competitors will begin the stage by performing LOCK AND LOAD (magazine inserted, no round in chamber) approximately 25 yards behind the 200 yard line. Upon appearance of the targets, they will move to the 200 yard line, chamber a round and engage their target.

Stage 4:  100 Yard Standing to Kneeling
                                              i.            Range: 100 yards
                                             ii.            Position: Standing and Keeling.
                                           iii.            Shots: 10 for record, (2 magazines of 5 rounds each).
                                           iv.            Target: 2, M9 Modified. Targets will be raised in the air at the beginning of the stage and withdrawn when time has expired. Targets will be scored at the completion of each stage.
                                            v.            Timing: 40 Seconds.
                                           vi.            Scoring: Maximum points 50-10X.
                                         vii.            Competitors will be squadded one per target.
                                        viii.            Competitors will begin the stage by performing LOCK AND LOAD (magazine inserted, no round in chamber) approximately 25 yards behind the 100 yard line. Upon appearance of the target, they will move to the 100 yard line, chamber a round, and engage one target with 5 rounds. They will then assume a kneeling position, perform a magazine change, and engage the other target with 5 rounds.

Stage 5:  75 Yards to 25 Yards Close Quarter Engagement
                                              i.            Range: 75 yards to 25 yards.
                                             ii.            Position: Alert position/Low ready.
                                           iii.            Shots: 10 for record, (1 magazine of 10).
                                           iv.            Target: 2, M9 Modified. Targets will be raised in the air at the beginning of the stage and withdrawn when time has expired. Targets will be scored at the completion of each stage. Each target must have 5 hits at the completion of the stage.
Attached File


                                            v.            Timing: 4 Seconds at 75 Yards, 3 Seconds at 50 Yards, 2 Seconds at 25 Yards.
                                           vi.            Scoring: Maximum points 50-10X.
                                         vii.            Competitors will be squadded one per target.
Competitors will begin the stage by performing LOCK AND LOAD (with a round in the chamber) at the 75 yard line. At the sound of the horn, competitors will have 4 seconds to fire as many rounds as desired at either target.  Competitors will then move to the 50 yard line.  At the sound of the horn, competitors will have 3 seconds to fire as many rounds as desired at either target.  Competitors will then move to the 25 yard line. At the sound of the horn, competitors will have 2 seconds to fire as many rounds as desired at either target.  Competitors must fire 5 rounds at each target.  Excessive hits will be treated as misses.

Originally Posted By airsix:

ETA: Bring back BARs

Originally Posted By NoWindZero:

but I think it would turn into a soup sandwich at perry with the movement to the firing line.  

Originally Posted By NoWindZero:
Doesn’t seem to be many service rifle shooters around here.  

The combat rifle EIC match would be a good time, but I think it would turn into a soup sandwich at perry with the movement to the firing line.  

It’s interesting how the optics are pushing the conversation for how the matches are ran.  

I wonder what people would say if they mandate each team in the rattle battle had to shoot X amount of rounds from each distance, including 300 sitting and 200 standing ….   That would change things….

Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:

Without the straight coats and WWI slings looped, I don't think so. As long as shooters are fit enough to jog or fastwalk.

Oh...

Originally Posted By NoWindZero:
Doesn’t seem to be many service rifle shooters around here.  

The combat rifle EIC match would be a good time, but I think it would turn into a soup sandwich at perry with the movement to the firing line.  

It’s interesting how the optics are pushing the conversation for how the matches are ran.  

I wonder what people would say if they mandate each team in the rattle battle had to shoot X amount of rounds from each distance, including 300 sitting and 200 standing ….   That would change things….