buying an SBR/suppressor that are on a trust - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - buying an SBR/suppressor that are on a trust

Posted: 1/19/2019 12:23:16 PM EDT

hello,

a friend of mine has an SBR and suppressor that are still in jail that he filed with a trust. those are the only NFA items that will be in his trust and he is offering me a very generous deal on them as he has to move to CA to pursue a business opportunity. the only other item on his trust is a round of 22lr.

can he add me to his trust after he gets the stamp to legally let me keep the gun and suppressor until i can get two stamps using my trust? i dont think it matters but it was bought as a SBR so he did not have to engrave it with his info.

thanks!
-z

Posted: 1/19/2019 12:28:05 PM EDT

[#1]

Sounds like a good way to get tapped for intentionally avoiding the required transfer process and tax payment......

Posted: 1/19/2019 12:50:58 PM EDT

[#2]

Contact an NFA Attorney...there are several 9th level Elf Lord Wizard Trust Oracles on ARF who would be able to cast an orb of ATF Invisibility...and I'm not one of them.

DO NOT tempt the ATF into a 'no knock' and asking you pointed questions while you are handcuffed on the floor.

ARF MODs...can I get upgraded to 7th level now?

Posted: 1/19/2019 1:53:43 PM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:
Sounds like a good way to get tapped for intentionally avoiding the required transfer process and tax payment......

View Quote

id make the tax payment on both the sbr and can, id just like to be able to use it while paperwork is processed if it is legal. ill ask John Pierce. highly recommended if youre looking for a trust. good info on his site too for those new to NFA stuff. also has fillable pdf forms for dwnld.

https://johnpierceesq.com/the-complete-guide-to-the-new-form-1/
https://johnpierceesq.com/the-complete-guide-to-the-new-form-4/

Posted: 1/19/2019 2:12:14 PM EDT

[#4]

Do the new “41” rules get into RPs that come into play after the initial transfer?

Posted: 1/19/2019 6:45:03 PM EDT

[#5]

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Quoted:
Do the new “41” rules get into RPs that come into play after the initial transfer?

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Current RPs of an entity are in play anytime there’s a Form 1/4 submitted.

Posted: 1/20/2019 1:23:03 PM EDT

[#6]

Why not just have him add you to the trust and call it a day? It is perfectly legal to add trustees post approval and this way if he ever moves back you can refund his money and return the items without the paperwork hassle.

Posted: 1/20/2019 10:52:37 PM EDT

[#7]

FWIW he should be able to cancel the transfer and get a refund on the taxes paid as long as the transfer hasn't taken place. Then you submit papers to have them transferred from his dealer to you. I know this doesn't help get them in your hands faster but it saves $400 and makes it less complicated.

Posted: 1/20/2019 11:01:23 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
FWIW he should be able to cancel the transfer and get a refund on the taxes paid as long as the transfer hasn't taken place. Then you submit papers to have them transferred from his dealer to you. I know this doesn't help get them in your hands faster but it saves $400 and makes it less complicated.

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This!

Posted: 1/21/2019 8:41:07 AM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
Why not just have him add you to the trust and call it a day? It is perfectly legal to add trustees post approval and this way if he ever moves back you can refund his money and return the items without the paperwork hassle.

View Quote

that is an option we were thinking about - would i be able to file the paperwork needed to take the SBR out of state not being the trust owner?

Posted: 1/21/2019 8:59:06 AM EDT

[#10]

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Quoted:

that is an option we were thinking about - would i be able to file the paperwork needed to take the SBR out of state not being the trust owner?

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The trust files the 5320.20. And if you’re a legal RP, you should be able to sign the form.

Posted: 1/25/2019 4:36:01 PM EDT

[#11]

There's a difference between money exchanged between friends and tax evasion.

For example, if I'm on the trust with my buddy and I pay him some money for wear and tear on the trusts items I don't see that as a problem. We're on the trust, money is going to the TRUST for items.

However, if we're on the trust and I pay him so "I can have those items" then one could easily argue it's tax evasion. It would be using a trust as a way to circumvent taxes if the intention was to go from one party to another party.

Posted: 1/28/2019 11:28:51 AM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
There's a difference between money exchanged between friends and tax evasion.

For example, if I'm on the trust with my buddy and I pay him some money for wear and tear on the trusts items I don't see that as a problem. We're on the trust, money is going to the TRUST for items.

However, if we're on the trust and I pay him so "I can have those items" then one could easily argue it's tax evasion. It would be using a trust as a way to circumvent taxes if the intention was to go from one party to another party.

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So what about companies that own NFA weapons and the entire company, weapons included, go up for sale? No transfer taxes take place, the same company owns the same firearms, the company just happens to have new owners. That's not tax evasion. How is a trust any different? The same trust owns the same firearms, it just so happens somebody else paid for the rights to control the trust...

Posted: 1/29/2019 10:29:17 AM EDT

[#13]

A trust and a company are completely different situations with very different purposes.

(And plenty of people are in trouble for tax evasion using companies to do things they shouldn't be doing.)

Posted: 1/31/2019 6:25:46 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
A trust and a company are completely different situations with very different purposes.

(And plenty of people are in trouble for tax evasion using companies to do things they shouldn't be doing.)

View Quote

In the realm of the NFA Trusts and Companies are mostly equal entities. There are a multitude of people out there that have formed LLCs and Trusts both for the explicit purpose of owning NFA weapons, often-times with the benefit of multiple people being permitted to possess the NFA weapons. The LLCs are routinely sold without any accusations of tax-evasion. Trusts are no different. As long as the transfer of controlling power for the trust is done IAW state and federal laws there are no tax-evasion implications. If tax-evasion were a consideration then you would see a large push to shut down trust and company ownerships because it essentially allows numerous people to transfer weapons amonst one-another without paying taxes. Yet we don't see that push.

Posted: 2/2/2019 10:13:26 AM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:

The trust files the 5320.20. And if you’re a legal RP, you should be able to sign the form.

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thanks. that is what my gun trust lawyer explained to me.

he said because i would be on the trust, i could also keep the weapon while i wait for stamps if i want to move the SBR onto my trust.

we also talked about engraving trust name onto pistols that are to become SBRs and i will tell you that i wont be engraving anything from here on out. i dont want to start a shit storm on here so look into it if interested.

Posted: 2/4/2019 2:14:03 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:

thanks. that is what my gun trust lawyer explained to me.

he said because i would be on the trust, i could also keep the weapon while i wait for stamps if i want to move the SBR onto my trust.

we also talked about engraving trust name onto pistols that are to become SBRs and i will tell you that i wont be engraving anything from here on out. i dont want to start a shit storm on here so look into it if interested.

View Quote

Sounds like you are dabbling in junky aftermarket guns.

I'd sell all these pistols.

If your friend ever wants his NFA stuff back, he can put them in a safe deposit box in the home state of the trust. No reason for you to be involved.

OR

Your friend and his dealer should call the NFA branch and cancel the transfer to his trust. If you want his guns that badly, then transfer them to you.

If you had a bunch of high dollar collectible stuff, I'd give you a different answer.

Posted: 2/7/2019 7:35:14 PM EDT

[#17]

dont want to engrave my z5rs and apc9. my friend waiting on honeybadger and trashpanda. not that it all matters.

why would what you value the guns at make any difference to me?

my friend offered to sell me the gun. why would he put it in a safe deposit box? why shouldnt i be involved if i would be the purchaser?

we have it all worked out so no need to let me know what you would do. thanks tho.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - buying an SBR/suppressor that are on a trust

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