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Posted: 9/4/2018 5:14:05 PM EDT
[#1]
Accurate, light recoil, easily carried, limited engagement range friendly carbine. Very popular with the European police set.
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Posted: 9/4/2018 5:32:05 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
I do understand the lure of the MP5 from all the movies and SAS etc., it does not seem practical to haul around a PCC such as MP5 while even a short AR15 with the same weight having the range, ability to penetrate body armors and power. If I have to lug around 7 lbs of metal, I'd take the AR15 any day of the week. |
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Posted: 9/4/2018 5:36:17 PM EDT
[#3]
Have you ever fired a short barreled 5.56 AR in an enclosed hallway? The blast from a 9mm is way more tame indoors and it’s also easier to suppress to a safer level.
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Posted: 9/4/2018 5:45:13 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have you ever fired a short barreled 5.56 AR in an enclosed hallway? The blast from a 9mm is way more tame indoors and it’s also easier to suppress to a safer level. |
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Posted: 9/4/2018 5:48:45 PM EDT
[#5]
Fun. My K barreled SBR Scorpion with Rugged Obsidian is STUPID quiet and fun to shoot with my 147gr reloads.
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Posted: 9/4/2018 6:08:16 PM EDT
[#6]
generally the same reason pistols are carried
accept these have a higher capacities and are a more natural extension of your body |
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Posted: 9/4/2018 6:45:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Because I can.
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Posted: 9/4/2018 6:48:19 PM EDT
[#8]
Suppression.
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Posted: 9/4/2018 8:23:33 PM EDT
[#9]
My 7.5” AR loses a lot of energy at that length, indoors it will practically knock paint off walls with its muzzle blast, obliterate unprotected ears, blind at night and would wake the entire neighborhood.
My MP5K with suppressor will put plenty of accurate rounds on target and not wake my light sleeper girlfriend in the next room. Different situations and different needs, etc etc, but the MP5 is still a spectacular platform. |
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Posted: 9/4/2018 8:29:54 PM EDT
[#10]
The fireball that kills your night vision and the thunder clap from a short AR15 makes an MP5 very attractive in night time close range battles.
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Posted: 9/4/2018 8:35:50 PM EDT
[#11]
and depending on your jurisdiction you get the "....... but its the same as a pistol" defense. Those evil black rifles are just to kill people you know.
Not saying I think that way but there are some that do. |
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Posted: 9/4/2018 8:37:58 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Suppression. |
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Posted: 9/4/2018 8:50:54 PM EDT
[#13]
All good answers, IMHO.
My 9x19 PCC build was a need... the action range does not allow rifle caliber AR's, but do allow PCC AR's. Their range, their rules. After much training with it ... I am very comfortable that it would safely provide SD, with minimal bark and blast. As a matter of fact it is my home SD stand by. IMHO, It is a tried and true carbine / caliber. Again, the much less muzzle blast is well worth it. At 100yds 'ish, the muzzle energy is about the same as when fired by a 4-5" barrel... so ballistic gel wise it is GTG. Someday, I will get a .45 ACP PCC |
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Posted: 9/4/2018 8:59:21 PM EDT
[#14]
Why do people use AR pcc's when their are mp5, B&T, and scorpions?
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Posted: 9/4/2018 9:22:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do people use AR pcc's when their are mp5, B&T, and scorpions? 
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Posted: 9/5/2018 9:19:19 AM EDT
[#16]
price? PSA AR9s for under $500
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Posted: 9/5/2018 9:26:44 AM EDT
[#17]
Having both a 5.56 and 9mm SBR AR15 I'll take the 9mm over the 5.56 every single time for any type of close in shooting. The blast from the 10" 5.56 is so brutal as to be distracting even with ear pro.
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Posted: 9/5/2018 9:34:09 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
price? PSA AR9s for under $500 |
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Posted: 9/5/2018 9:34:56 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Having both a 5.56 and 9mm SBR AR15 I'll take the 9mm over the 5.56 every single time for any type of close in shooting. The blast from the 10" 5.56 is so brutal as to be distracting even with ear pro. |
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Posted: 9/5/2018 9:35:30 AM EDT
[#20]
"Ability to penetrate body armor" isn't really something I consider when either buying/building a rifle/carbine, or deciding what to take to the range....
Cheap 9mm ammo, the ability to suppress very effectively, and "fun factor" is |
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Posted: 9/5/2018 11:16:43 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wouldn't a muzzle device solve that problem? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Having both a 5.56 and 9mm SBR AR15 I'll take the 9mm over the 5.56 every single time for any type of close in shooting. The blast from the 10" 5.56 is so brutal as to be distracting even with ear pro. |
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Posted: 9/5/2018 11:46:36 AM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 9/5/2018 12:00:45 PM EDT
[#23]
No, it makes it worse
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Posted: 9/5/2018 6:16:23 PM EDT
[#24]
Cheaper ammo, cheaper weapon, easier to suppress, super low recoil..
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Posted: 9/5/2018 6:29:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Indoor ranges that don't allow 5.56, cheaper ammo, ammunition commonality with your pistol.
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Posted: 9/5/2018 10:35:52 PM EDT
[#26]
I wasn't comparing an AR9 to an AR15, but an AR9 to a MP5....I'd love to have a roller delayed 9mm for $500
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Posted: 9/5/2018 11:05:53 PM EDT
[#27]
As stated already, shorty ARs have ridiculous muzzle blast, heavier recoil than their longer barrel brethren, and obnoxious noise. A 9mm with a longer than average barrel, on the other hand, is much tamer.
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Posted: 9/6/2018 8:50:28 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do people use AR pcc's when their are mp5, B&T, and scorpions? That's the real question. "But muh goofy charging handle!" is the only reason, best I can tell. |
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Posted: 9/6/2018 8:57:07 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wasn't comparing an AR9 to an AR15, but an AR9 to a MP5....I'd love to have a roller delayed 9mm for $500 -Much higher recoil due to barely-heavy-enough bolt, for more crude blowback operation (most purpose-built smgs have heavier bolts) -Generally less reliable (ejector, conversion blocks, firing pins, hammer pins, receivers --all break & wear out more quickly) -Larger because of the dumb buffer tube design of the Stoner platform -Larger because of the need to fit 556-size lower receivers (usually) -Larger because the AR upper receiver forces the bolt to be longer than even the old WWII smgs -Incredibly messy because of blow-back operation, and harder to clean because of 'tighter' interior geometry of AR platform Ergonomics are a wash, pure personal preference. Optics *can* be easier to mount on the AR, but HKs have all the same sort of rails on the receiver/handguards as an option. The only factor --the ONLY factor-- working in the AR's favor is that it's cheaper than most other PCC options besides the Hi Point. Even then, as was said, the 556 AR is even cheaper, and ammo not terribly more expensive. |
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Posted: 9/6/2018 9:41:13 AM EDT
[#30]
barnbwt... I was just making a comment... I have been shooting USPSA PCC with an AR9 for the past two seasons... you are correct about the recoil, and I have broken an OEM firing pin, but after rounding the strike end of an OEM Colt seemed to have cured it... I have bolts with both an AR extractor and two with pistol extractors with no appreciable difference in reliability at about 9000 rounds on my primary...my SBR used as Macon Armory mag block, but both game guns use NFA/PSA billet Glock lowers.... I use a full size AR A1 stock so the length of the buffer tube is not a problem.... tuning the reduced recoil loads is considerably easier with the ability to add buffer weights.... USPSA rules do not allow the used of "pistols", but SBR's are OK... at the time, I was not sure that PCC would take off, but it has a large following at my local club....as a Super Senior, the added cost for a bump rod system, or roller delayed would not be worth it... with a hydraulic buffer, my dot pretty much stays on target with a 145 power factor load... regards
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Posted: 9/6/2018 10:04:44 AM EDT
[#31]
Everyone complaining about 5.56 being too loud and having too much blast, why not go 300 blackout? You can sling 220 gr rounds at subsonic velocities and suppress well just like a PCC, but you have the option of switching mags and shooting a 110 gr bullet at 2200 fps. Even in the subsonic rounds 300 blackout has a better BC than pistol rounds and carries energy further.
I definitely want a PCC for fun, but I only have a 30 cal can right now. Maybe after I get a pistol can I’ll get a PCC |
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Posted: 9/6/2018 10:13:29 AM EDT
[#32]
I like 6.8 ballistics from a short AR. 2400FPS and 16" of penetration from an 8.5" barrel.
 AR 15 Pistol Uppers: Field Test- 6.8 SPC vs 300 Blackout vs 7.62x9 Short suppressed 9mm's are fun for range time with cheap subsonic 9mm. I would not choose one for self defense. Rifle wounds are generally much more effective at stopping threats. |
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Posted: 9/6/2018 10:52:18 PM EDT
[#33]
For serious work, I would never use a PCC unless I had nothing else... since I got this..
I have seen the attraction too a PCC, they are fun, but I would never spend more then what I did on this for one, and certainly not for Mp5 Clone models . Just too much money for me for what is a fun toy. |
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Posted: 9/6/2018 11:16:10 PM EDT
[#34]
When you want something compact and accurate and capable of putting 30 rounds into a target with no hearing protection because it's so quiet suppressed. Yeah I love my Mp5. Don't get me wrong I love my shorty suppressed AR's also, but it's a lot louder. Do you want to wake the neighbors? Ha
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Posted: 9/7/2018 11:50:17 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everyone complaining about 5.56 being too loud and having too much blast, why not go 300 blackout? You can sling 220 gr rounds at subsonic velocities and suppress well just like a PCC, but you have the option of switching mags and shooting a 110 gr bullet at 2200 fps. Even in the subsonic rounds 300 blackout has a better BC than pistol rounds and carries energy further. I definitely want a PCC for fun, but I only have a 30 cal can right now. Maybe after I get a pistol can I’ll get a PCC |
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Posted: 9/7/2018 12:16:23 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sub-sonic 300 Blackout basically is a pistol cal. It's pistol weight bullets going at pistol speeds, what exactly is the difference at that point? Why not just go .45 ACP, which is more readily available and cheaper? |
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Posted: 9/7/2018 12:16:58 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When you want something compact and accurate and capable of putting 30 rounds into a target with no hearing protection because it's so quiet suppressed. Yeah I love my Mp5. Don't get me wrong I love my shorty suppressed AR's also, but it's a lot louder. Do you want to wake the neighbors? Ha |
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Posted: 9/7/2018 12:21:06 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The coefficient of 300 BLK bullets are better. Go watch some comparison videos where a sub-sonic 300 BLK can defeat body armors while .45 can't. Also, with a switch of magazine, one can jump from sub to supersonic. |
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Posted: 9/7/2018 12:55:42 PM EDT
[#39]
They don't have the same weight.
The MP5K weighs 4.4 lbs, and the MP5K-PDW weighs 5.5 lbs (although B&T stocks are now available which are lighter than the Choate stock). They also conceal better.  Attached File(This should have the 15 round mag, but you get the idea.)  Attached File(Even if this had a folding stock, it would still be too wide.) Carrying openly is still easier with the PCC/SMG. It's really difficult to carry your AR pistol in a holster.  Attached FileI leave my stock off when carrying in the Eagle thigh rig, but couldn't find a pic of that. Outside of that, they're just fun. No reason not to have one in inventory. |
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Posted: 9/7/2018 11:57:11 PM EDT
[#40]
Suppression....Fire a 7.5in AR15 in an enclosed room and you won’t ask this question. Also suppression = FUN
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Posted: 9/8/2018 8:54:45 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For serious work, I would never use a PCC unless I had nothing else... since I got this.. https://i.imgur.com/RXHCOti.jpg I have seen the attraction too a PCC, they are fun, but I would never spend more then what I did on this for one, and certainly not for Mp5 Clone models . Just too much money for me for what is a fun toy. |
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Posted: 9/8/2018 11:04:41 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Your front buis is installed on backwards. |
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Posted: 9/8/2018 11:17:29 AM EDT
[#43]
The MP5 is different from other SMGs. It's not like 9mm recoils a lot but the MP5 has zero muzzle rise. It's like a laser even in full auto.
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Posted: 9/8/2018 12:06:29 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The MP5 is different from other SMGs. It's not like 9mm recoils a lot but the MP5 has zero muzzle rise. It's like a laser even in full auto. The mp5 feels like a .22lr compared to the Evo |
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Posted: 9/8/2018 9:19:29 PM EDT
[#45]
My range does not allow rifle calibers on the pistol range where all the cool stuff is to shoot - pins, steel, swingers, ect.
Also, half of my interest in the firearms hobby is building, and AR-15's are boring as heck, and more of an assembled gun than a built gun. Lots of cool parts kits out there to build into PCC's. Not every gun MUST be a practical battlefield gun. My Swedish K, Stens, and others I have build are a blast to shoot and always get attention at the range. 
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Posted: 9/8/2018 9:22:49 PM EDT
[#46]
Well, they were practical combat weapons in their day. SF used the Swedish K in Vietnam.
Very nice examples you have there!
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Posted: 9/8/2018 9:29:43 PM EDT
[#47]
Damn, I need to find my Eagle mp5k shoulder rig.
Kitbuilder, do you know how to set up the keyring so that it properly opens the stock when you deploy it from the shoulder rig? I don't think i ever figured that out. |
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Posted: 9/8/2018 9:58:57 PM EDT
[#48]
Man I'll have to find a thread that had pics of that. You use a foot or so of paracord and secure one end to the rear of the stock, but I'm not remembering where the other end went. I never rigged mine that way. I prefer omitting the stock due to weight and width.
The factory Eagle rig ships with a key ring and short (4" maybe) length of paracord but that is to quick release the weapon after deployment. The key ring is affixed to the pawl of an HK-style snap hook that grabs the end cap's swivel (or stock's swivel by the receiver). That's what it hangs by. If you don't release it, the rig will act as a short sling, and the recommended firing procedure is to extend out against it for stability. If you end up in an awkward position (or can't traverse your torso but need to engage a target on your extreme weak side) you can QD the gun pretty fast and then you're just holding it. |
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Posted: 9/11/2018 1:22:33 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have you ever fired a short barreled 5.56 AR in an enclosed hallway? The blast from a 9mm is way more tame indoors and it’s also easier to suppress to a safer level. I enjoy my ears...and if people breaking into my house are wearing body armor, I’m probably in deep enough trouble where it makes no difference what I’m using. Ruger PC Carbine is my go-to home defense gun. |
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Posted: 9/11/2018 9:03:53 AM EDT
[#50]
IMO, 9mm SMGs like the MP5 are far easier to shoot quickly and accurately than an AR15 / M16 with a comparatively short barrel.
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