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Posted: 12/24/2022 12:37:07 AM EDT
[#1]
Even better than taking the plates out to train with, is leaving the plates in to train with.
 All comes down to "do you want to carry stuff, or do you want to carry stuff and plate armor?" |
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Posted: 12/24/2022 12:40:44 AM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 12/24/2022 12:41:06 AM EDT
[#3]
Chest rig is for wearing with a backpack
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Posted: 12/24/2022 1:40:53 AM EDT
[#4]
Chest rigs are usually worn with a pack for special recce and long movements where a gunfight isn't deemed highly likely or part of the objective. You're giving up protection in exchange for easier movement, given you may have a 40-60lb pack trying to kick your ass.
ETA poster above beat me to it |
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Posted: 12/24/2022 4:26:04 AM EDT
[#5]
I dunno. I’m low speed but I don’t see anything super wrong with making a pc pull double duty. Plates in for protection, plates out for better movement when encounters are less likely.
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Posted: 12/24/2022 5:11:47 AM EDT
[#6]
Dunno.
But I train/use an IBA. Bounding 500M really sucks. 
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Posted: 12/24/2022 12:00:20 PM EDT
[#7]
You can carry more stuff (IMO) on a CR, since most wrap way more around you, than a typical 3 Column PC (The Cumberbund/Plate Bag junction usually limits pouch placement there). And it's all single layer, vs stacking stuff outward, like a PC. It's also cooler for hot weather, doesn't restrict movement as much, and (for me) wearing a small pack (YOTE in my case) is more comfortable....or a big pack, for that matter, as mentioned above.
Just listened to Les Sandusky, former 3/75 Plt Sgt who was in Syria - they had dudes Heat Cat'ing in the birds on infil. They were fighting in Shorts and Tee's on their small outpost. The answer to this question is BOTH, depending on mission and environmental's. In Iraq, the first vest I was given by my employer, was the best protection...after a while, I was like "F this" and wore a foreign made PE plate Carrier under my Wasatch. I'd love to put a LVL IV PC on a SOG guy, like John Stryker Meyer - and ask him if he'd have run missions in it... I think I know the answer already. For me, if it's mostly in vehicles and/or anything bldg or city - it'll be a PC. If I'm humping where camouflage helps, it's a CR. Big Boy Rules - Do What Your Rank Can Handle. |
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Posted: 12/24/2022 1:54:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Does anyone make a plate carrier that allows the front/back panels to be separated, so a fellow could use the front panel as a chest rig with a harness? It would let me use one set of pouches for both roles.
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Posted: 12/24/2022 2:11:25 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does anyone make a plate carrier that allows the front/back panels to be separated, so a fellow could use the front panel as a chest rig with a harness? It would let me use one set of pouches for both roles. |
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Posted: 12/24/2022 2:39:15 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can carry more stuff (IMO) on a CR, since most wrap way more around you, than a typical 3 Column PC (The Cumberbund/Plate Bag junction usually limits pouch placement there). And it's all single layer, vs stacking stuff outward, like a PC. It's also cooler for hot weather, doesn't restrict movement as much, and (for me) wearing a small pack (YOTE in my case) is more comfortable....or a big pack, for that matter, as mentioned above. Just listened to Les Sandusky, former 3/75 Plt Sgt who was in Syria - they had dudes Heat Cat'ing in the birds on infil. They were fighting in Shorts and Tee's on their small outpost. The answer to this question is BOTH, depending on mission and environmental's. In Iraq, the first vest I was given by my employer, was the best protection...after a while, I was like "F this" and wore a foreign made PE plate Carrier under my Wasatch. I'd love to put a LVL IV PC on a SOG guy, like John Stryker Meyer - and ask him if he'd have run missions in it... I think I know the answer already. For me, if it's mostly in vehicles and/or anything bldg or city - it'll be a PC. If I'm humping where camouflage helps, it's a CR. Big Boy Rules - Do What Your Rank Can Handle. I’m not trying to be an ass, but I’m looking at my pc and my chest rig and I don’t see any way that I could fit more stuff on my chest rig. |
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Posted: 12/24/2022 3:20:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Given the lack of muzzle discipline and failure to observe other longstanding and common safety practices at local private range, wearing body armor seems more like a useful safety practice, in addition to being a training aid.
To be fair, such incidents are fairly uncommon, but you only need to be shot dead once, if you take my drift. All Club Members using the private range are required to undergo Basic Range Safety procedures. I suspect most of the "offenses" are due to their Guests, who might not receive "adequate" guidance from their Host. Rather than complain about a problem that is not easily solved without the institution of designated Range Safety Officers (and all the problems associated with adopting such procedure) wearing some body armor seems prudent, IMHO. |
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Posted: 12/24/2022 5:44:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m not trying to be an ass, but I’m looking at my pc and my chest rig and I don’t see any way that I could fit more stuff on my chest rig. With the hundreds of rigs of each type out there, it's going to differ. I can only compare my Templar's Gear Crusader ROC PC (w/Dangler), to my UW Gen V Split Front CR. I don't stack pouches on top of each other. For example, my CR holds 5 Rifle Mags - the PC just 3...need a belt for the other two. |
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Posted: 12/24/2022 6:31:09 PM EDT
[#13]
I think that the folks who say "Train as You Will Fight" have a very good point. There is no substitute for "carrying the weight" of body armor except by doing so, and doing so under 'vigorous" conditions.
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Posted: 12/25/2022 10:46:23 AM EDT
[#15]
There are plenty of good PC's that have panels that convert to chest rigs, so this argument is kind of goofy. Wear what you need at the time.
Why take the plates out when you can simply detach the "placard" and make a chest rig? This kind of thing has been over-taken by new designs. While RAF makes an excellent point, in that the new influx of shooters are woefully ignorant of basic gun safety, I would submit there are times and places you can wear BA (maybe to include public ranges!), and others when you just can't. Good lord that chest rig brings back memories. That's how we built kit, before we knew better. |
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Posted: 12/25/2022 10:56:00 AM EDT
[#16]
Most PCs and armor carriers gain their structure from the armor.
Wearing one loaded without armor might actually be more uncomfortable than wearing it with the armor in it. There are plenty of ways to scale up and down gear based on what you're doing. |
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Posted: 12/25/2022 11:01:10 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: I get why a chest rig vs a loaded plate carrier, but why not just take out the plates to train with or use? Why get a different set up entirely? Because most plate carries need the plates in them to maintain rigidity. They get kind of floppy without the plates. |
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Posted: 12/25/2022 11:17:17 AM EDT
[#18]
IIRC there are "fake" plates. Some duplicate the shape and weight of "real" plates in order to save expensive "real" plates from damage when training; others are very lightweight but rigid enough to fill-out the PC so the PC "works" properly.
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Posted: 12/25/2022 11:20:55 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Chest rig is for wearing with a backpack This. Its why i bought mine. I also have a plate carrier too though. Different missions, different needs. |
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Posted: 12/25/2022 11:33:26 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you not seen the old school HSGI Denali? I can literally put more in it than I can carry and not lose my balance... ROCK6 My man!  Totally forgot to even consider the older stuff. Here's my buddy Vince (RIP - IED off of Tampa) in Iraq 03/04 with his Denali, and me with a Wasatch. I've still got that damn thing in a box. He's wearing his over that OD Green concealable PE Armor we had.   I grabbed a Whiskey Two Four Plate Carrier 13(?) for $99. It's a minimalist, concealable carrier - If I need Armor, I'll throw the Gen V Chest Rig over it. Then, if you ever need a break in a permissive area, you can ditch the CR but still wear the plates. There are literally many, many ways to skin this cat, and almost none, are wrong. |
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Posted: 12/25/2022 12:06:20 PM EDT
[#21]
My next door neighbor became an active shooter and killed 2 police officers in my front yard recently. As I was putting on my armor and gunning up at no point did I want to be less bulletproof.
Pretty much sealed the deal for me finally outfitting my belt and PC and giving up on chest rig. |
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Posted: 12/25/2022 12:09:25 PM EDT
[#22]
Someone may have mentioned it, but you can flop a chest rig, not so much with a plate carrier. By flop, I mean unhook the waist strap and flop it in front of you when you're laying prone.
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Posted: 12/25/2022 8:47:48 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With the hundreds of rigs of each type out there, it's going to differ. I can only compare my Templar's Gear Crusader ROC PC (w/Dangler), to my UW Gen V Split Front CR. I don't stack pouches on top of each other. For example, my CR holds 5 Rifle Mags - the PC just 3...need a belt for the other two. Ahhhh, gotcha! I thought we were talking everything, not just mag holders. You’re right, I only have three on my pc. I can fit 6 in my cummerbund, which was made to house three on each side, but I avoid that like the plague. |
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Posted: 12/25/2022 8:48:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you not seen the old school HSGI Denali? I can literally put more in it than I can carry and not lose my balance Can your PC carry 14 of the .308 25-round PMags; or 19 AR mags? (and other than max'ing out the weight and capacity, I don't and wouldn't carry that much!)https://cdn.shoplightspeed.com/shops/611913/files/18503285/hsgi-hsgi-denali-chest-rig.jpg https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/v440/ROCK-6/Firearms/.highres/Denali.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds I honestly think the best answer is to have both. For home-defense, convoy ops in WROL, or doing actual DA training, a plate carrier is best. With placards and pouches, you can tailor to your mission. If you run it slick, you can still wear chest rig over it (which can get a little bulky depending on your PC). If you're actually patrolling, scouting, doing recce and actually humping distances in rough terrain, my PC stays home and a chest rig (or British kit rig) is my top choice. Chest rigs do integrate better with a pack. I also prefer split chest rig. I think the issue with a PC cover is that it covers too much of your upper body and traps heat (with or without plates). I do have another older HSGI rig that tried to marry a chest/torso rig with a plate carrier setup. It was just too big and bulky without plates and while the plates worked okay, it was just an awkward setup. ROCK6 Wow! I wouldn’t want to stay and clean up after that party! Lol |
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Posted: 12/25/2022 8:58:56 PM EDT
[#25]
I use mine with level 3 soft armor in it for training. The hard plates go in when I get home.
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Posted: 12/26/2022 8:35:56 AM EDT
[#26]
Flaccid PCs are stupid even for airsoft.
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Posted: 12/26/2022 8:38:33 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because most plate carries need the plates in them to maintain rigidity. They get kind of floppy without the plates. This. |
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Posted: 12/26/2022 10:59:57 AM EDT
[#28]
BUT.
If you really wanted to do this... there are spacer/comfort pads, and even hardshell water plates you can substitute to work without armor. Oh man those old chest rigs look so badass! I remember seeing those pics of SAS/SBS troopers with massive chest rigs and bergens in the Falklands and being suitably impressed. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 12:54:16 PM EDT
[#29]
My bare Esstac Daeodon is significantly lighter than the bare Condor PC I've been using the past few years.
ETA: Brain fart moment...chest rig vs. PC. |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 1:25:29 PM EDT
[#30]
How about this chest rig paired with this plate carrier?
Only down side for me is I prefer Kywi mag puches. Anyone tried Haley Strategic M2 in Velocity System plackards? |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 4:26:34 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about this chest rig paired with this plate carrier? Only down side for me is I prefer Kywi mag puches. Anyone tried Haley Strategic M2 in Velocity System plackards? That would work fine if that type of combo works for you (I love it, and think its very versatile). I don't know how tied to Velocity you are, but WTF is a great mfg, and makes a minimalist PC for $99: Plate Carrier 13 |
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Posted: 12/27/2022 5:40:06 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Plate Carrier 13 They don't have Hesco m210 on their size chart... but then again they cover some other things better than other companies  Thanks for the tip. I have the Opt-Velocity LWPC with a kywi 3 mag plackard. I am pretty happy with it. But if I got to do it over, I'd go with something a little more slick on the front since a plackard acts as cumberbund flap. But I bought just before GF-BLM kicked off and was happy to find something in stock at a decent price. |
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Posted: 12/28/2022 12:36:29 AM EDT
[#33]
I wear a chest rig because I'm out for weeks at a time training units and honestly I got tired of always having to wear my plate carrier just to carry a radio. I do the 10 mile run in PC at the end though.
Anytime I have worn a PC without plates it always wants to slide down and hang on my neck. |
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Posted: 12/28/2022 3:31:23 PM EDT
[#34]
For you guys that utilize both, are they set up similarly or differently? I get the whole different jobs thing but isn’t there an argument for similar set ups for familiarity?
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Posted: 12/28/2022 4:17:11 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For you guys that utilize both, are they set up similarly or differently? I get the whole different jobs thing but isn’t there an argument for similar set ups for familiarity? I have a swiftclip placard and can just swap placards, but I do have a few separate that are a little different from one another. I have the same commo setup on both. The main difference for me is my chest rig has a TQ but doesn't have an IFAK, mainly because I have them on my belt, my bag, in the truck, etc. I keep my night vision in a pouch where the IFAK would go on my PC, while on my PC the NVG pouch rides on the sides on my cummerbund. Also my ATAK setup is different because it has to be.  
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Posted: 12/28/2022 5:20:53 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For you guys that utilize both, are they set up similarly or differently? I get the whole different jobs thing but isn’t there an argument for similar set ups for familiarity? I have some different options that I’ve collected over the years but they’re all interchangeable and the vast majority of the time, I’m using a VS Scarab and Gen IV chest rig. When I want armor, I clip the chest rig in to the Scarab. When I don’t, it’s a couple of buckles to swap from PC to straps. Super easy and keeps everything the same. |
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Posted: 12/28/2022 8:18:49 PM EDT
[#37]
If cost was no object I’d love to try S and S precisions air or maritime tactical harnesses. There’s a little more structure/rigidity to them than plain nylon and plates can be added seemingly easily. Kind of a more modern take on the RRVs that had plate pockets in front and an option to go from x harness to rear plate bag.
Link They’re stupid expensive though and I don’t “need” one |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 12:34:34 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For you guys that utilize both, are they set up similarly or differently? I get the whole different jobs thing but isn’t there an argument for similar set ups for familiarity? I'd probably have a primary chest rig that I could throw over a slick plate carrier. |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 7:37:43 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For you guys that utilize both, are they set up similarly or differently? I get the whole different jobs thing but isn’t there an argument for similar set ups for familiarity? Yeah, I would agree about using something as both a placard or stand-alone micro chest rig. The functional familiarity is there, but you can decide between humping a large patrol pack without a PC, or having the additional weight and bulk of a PC for HD (or some serious engagements); mission-specific. I much prefer a slick carrier as my base and options to user just a belt or either add a placard and pouches, or just throw on a TT MAV or similar chest rig as needed. If you need armor, but you're not really part of the party, you can maneuver around a lot more, and faster, with less shit on your plate carrier (I just integrate with my minimalist belt kit for HD; I just don't see the need for a 180+round combat loadout inside my home). ROCK6 |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 8:54:22 AM EDT
[#40]
I never get confused when switching from Jeans to Combat Pants and back - always know where everything is
YMMV, and nothing wrong with it (no shade), but I think this hobby, lifestyle, whatever you want to call it - invents problems for every single piece of gear / situation, that could be thought up. Nike and Project Runway: "Just Do it" and "Make It Work" 
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