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Posted: 9/4/2018 12:17:03 PM EDT
I've done it on two separate occasions now; first time it happened in a Shilen .260 barrel I had on a savage action. I pulled the bolt back and had 2-3 pins sitting there in the case. I then discovered a mark on my suppressor end cap that looks a lot like part of an SS pin. I pulled the barrel because mentally I'd just lost confidence in it.
It happened again two weekends ago when I was shooting ammo I'd loaded years ago through a Remington 700 in .223 that's well past due for a new barrel. I didn't much care about it happening this time, and it didn't appear to have any affect on the accuracy of the barrel. Maybe one day when I have a borescope I'll post some pics. 
Both of these occurrences can be blamed on reloading procedures from years ago; I've since changed to be maniacal about case inspection for pins. That said, this has to be more common than one would expect. Anyone else ever send one down a tube? What happened, and did you see any negative effects on accuracy? |
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Posted: 9/4/2018 12:48:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Hasn't happened to me, but I do inspect my cases after drying.
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Posted: 9/4/2018 12:51:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Just wondering, did your groups open up after you thought you fired some pins down barrel?
I don’t know how anyone would know if they had fired a case with some SS pins in it. |
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Posted: 9/4/2018 12:58:56 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just wondering, did your groups open up after you thought you fired some pins down barrel? I don’t know how anyone would know if they had fired a case with some SS pins in it. The .223 R700 barrel didn't really shoot any different, and it had always been a copper mine. The way I knew the first time was by seeing one left inside a fired case; that prompted me to go look for signs on the muzzle/suppressor end. The second time with the R700, I wasn't running a suppressor, but I did find a pin inside a fired case. Regarding DryFlashes comment, I too thought I was very good about inspecting brass prior. I've always inspected cases right before adding powder; usually get a flashlight and hover over them individually. I guess I missed them. 
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Posted: 9/4/2018 1:02:22 PM EDT
[#4]
I sort my cases by headstamp and the pins stuck in the flashole show up then.
Any pin that sticks gets thrown out. Why put it back in and have it stick again? |
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Posted: 9/4/2018 1:26:26 PM EDT
[#5]
I may have but I never saw any apparent evidence that I did.
I have stopped pin tumbling on bottle neck cases and use without for the most part now. Those little bastards stick themselfs to the sidewalls of the case and are hard to see sometimes. |
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Posted: 9/4/2018 2:07:39 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I may have but I never saw any apparent evidence that I did. I have stopped pin tumbling on bottle neck cases and use without for the most part now. Those little bastards stick themselfs to the sidewalls of the case and are hard to see sometimes. I'll still use the SS, but do so very sparingly, and inspect the absolute s*** out of them. For me it wasn't the pins that got stuck in the flash holes (at least I think). It's the pins that got stuck down near the web of the case, but tucked up out of sight. |
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Posted: 9/4/2018 2:15:47 PM EDT
[#7]
No I gave up on ss media when I bought my cement mixer, for wet I just use detergent and the fins agitate (first tumble after the cases are off the range floor knock the dirt off and powder residue to keep my dies clean) then I finish in walnut after resize.
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Posted: 9/4/2018 2:25:32 PM EDT
[#8]
I have no idea if I ever have or not. I do wonder, though.
Would be interesting to do some before/after bore scoping, and fire some pins down a barrel next time I'm pulling a barrel. Even though the barrel is already shot out, I'd think you'd be able to see if the pins are capable of doing damage. |
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Posted: 9/4/2018 2:26:32 PM EDT
[#9]
I probably have without noticing.
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Posted: 9/4/2018 2:53:44 PM EDT
[#10]
Part of the reason I switched to SS chips. Also, I re-tumble without pins after resizing, to get the lube off. Any materials trying to hide inside a case wall should come off then. And I look down the flash-holes during handling. Switching to chips has pretty much eliminated me ever seeing left over SS inside a casing.
You don't have to use pins (or chips), but I like them for cleaning the casing insides and clean out the primer pockets - water alone doesn't really do the primer pockets. |
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Posted: 9/4/2018 3:23:26 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Part of the reason I switched to SS chips. Also, I re-tumble without pins after resizing, to get the lube off. Any materials trying to hide inside a case wall should come off then. And I look down the flash-holes during handling. Switching to chips has pretty much eliminated me ever seeing left over SS inside a casing. You don't have to use pins (or chips), but I like them for cleaning the casing insides and clean out the primer pockets - water alone doesn't really do the primer pockets. |
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Posted: 9/4/2018 7:53:13 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have a link to the chips you're using? SS Chips |
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Posted: 9/4/2018 8:01:40 PM EDT
[#13]
A buddy I compete with had a piece of ss pin weld to the shoulder area of his chamber. Noticed some failures to go into battery and spent brass with a pair of holes punched in the case shoulder. And I really mean it was welded in there. Had to use a chamber reamer to gently chip them out.
Moral of the story: get a decent pin media seperator. |
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Posted: 9/5/2018 8:09:22 AM EDT
[#14]
Not sure what you mean SS rods? In the Army we used to shoot cleaning rod sections out the rifle with blank rounds.
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Posted: 9/5/2018 8:31:45 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure what you mean SS rods? In the Army we used to shoot cleaning rod sections out the rifle with blank rounds. |
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Posted: 9/5/2018 9:57:40 AM EDT
[#16]
I deprime before wet tumbling, as many do ... in addition to inspecting after, I also leave the decapping pin in the sizing die as an additional opportunity to either push out or feel pins that may have been missed.
so far so good |
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Posted: 9/5/2018 10:34:03 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I deprime before wet tumbling, as many do ... in addition to inspecting after, I also leave the decapping pin in the sizing die as an additional opportunity to either push out or feel pins that may have been missed. so far so good 1) They wedge accross the inside of the casing. Where the length of the pin is equal to the inside diameter of the case. This was the majority of my pin-problems. When this happend, I found the decapping pin on the sizer would just bend the pin, and continue on it's way down the flash hole. And now the bent pin was more difficult to visually notice through the flash hole too. This occurred to me roughly every 500th casing. 
And @DryFlash advise to always discard such pins once recovered - is good advise. 2) Two bunch up going through the flash-hole. This is the one most people take photos of, but didn't really happen to me except maybe once. 3) A fugative pin that sort of wet-stuck to the inside of the casing somewhere. I never actually had this happen. I use the RCBS rotary media separator tumbler thingy, and crank it for 30-60 seconds and variable direction and speed. I do this dry, and it works fine. |
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Posted: 9/6/2018 3:02:54 PM EDT
[#18]
I just started using pins. After drying there are always a few pins on the drying surface and more come out when I dry tumble them in a collander with lid.
I need to dry tumble my other efforts
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Posted: 9/6/2018 3:26:28 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just started using pins. After drying there are always a few pins on the drying surface and more come out when I dry tumble them in a collander with lid. I need to dry tumble my other efforts |
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Posted: 9/6/2018 6:37:35 PM EDT
[#20]
Most interesting!......I've never used or even seen pins that long! I think I bought mine from the source Dryflash3 posted in his first Wet Tumbling thread. They were magnetic stainless, and about half as long as what I see in your pictures. Bet Dryflash3 remembers the source.
I've had a few rifle cases with doubled pins stuck in the flash holes .....but they were easily caught while swaging & trimming, as cases go to a case block before trimming mouth up and base up after. I use an RCBS separator after tumbling. 6 to 8 turns clockwise....another 6 to 8 turns counter clockwise. I only rarely find doubled pins, never had one lengthwise wedged in case bottoms of .223, and never stuck one inside a case along sides. Maybe those with that last problem aren't rinsing with clean cold water enough? Sure do like wet tumbling results! Will always be appreciative to Dryflash3 and this forum for presenting the idea! Made reloading funner.....bling puts me in a better mood....better mood makes me shoot better....what's not to like? Below: Swaged, ready to trim....easy to to inspect at this stage. 
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Posted: 9/6/2018 7:34:06 PM EDT
[#21]
I’ve had a couple of pins sneak past inspection at the drying stage. They are particularly easy to snag in .30 Carbine and .32 Auto cases because of the inside dimensions of those cases. I use chips for those calibers - they are too much of a hassle with the other calibers I load, because it’s far more difficult for me to separate the chips from wet brass.
Like dryflash3, I visually inspect all my cases before priming, so cases with pins in the flash hole get culled. Unless they stick in obviously large flash holes - those flash holes would be the culprit, not the pins. The grade of stainless used in those pins is pretty soft, so unless you’re using a very high-end barrel it’s not likely you’d have any damage from a pin. Suppressors are a different matter, and a really important reason to thoroughly inspect your cases before loading. |
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Posted: 9/6/2018 9:49:12 PM EDT
[#22]
I don't think I have ever sent one the SS pins down the barrel. I always check the flash holes before priming but I had a batch of brass that I had prepped weeks before hand and when I primed them I found that two pins had been stuck in the flash holes and I pushed them out when I primed the batch.
Once I saw the pins come out of the case I checked the rest of the batch and found two more pins in another case. It kind of bothered me becuase I have always prided myself for having strong attention to detail. I had obviously not checked for pins like I thought I had so I added it to my load sheet template in Excel. Now nothing gets primed if the pin check box is not crossed off. I usually load in 100 round batches so it is a quick visual check.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/6/2018 10:25:02 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think I have ever sent one the SS pins down the barrel. I always check the flash holes before priming but I had a batch of brass that I had prepped weeks before hand and when I primed them I found that two pins had been stuck in the flash holes and I pushed them out when I primed the batch. Once I saw the pins come out of the case I checked the rest of the batch and found two more pins in another case. It kind of bothered me becuase I have always prided myself for having strong attention to detail. I had obviously not checked for pins like I thought I had so I added it to my load sheet template in Excel. Now nothing gets primed if the pin check box is not crossed off. I usually load in 100 round batches so it is a quick visual check. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/35364/20180906_213220-1-663746.JPG I'm directing this question at the broader audience, not you Kingston Fisher; but, how many rounds do you think you can go without overlooking something so easy? I'm sure most of us "experienced" re-loaders have at some point over the years chambered around only to see a primer missing etc. Something to think about. |
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Posted: 9/6/2018 11:01:29 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most interesting!......I've never used or even seen pins that long! I think I bought mine from the source Dryflash3 posted in his first Wet Tumbling thread. They were magnetic stainless, and about half as long as what I see in your pictures. Bet Dryflash3 remembers the source. I've had a few rifle cases with doubled pins stuck in the flash holes .....but they were easily caught while swaging & trimming, as cases go to a case block before trimming mouth up and base up after. I use an RCBS separator after tumbling. 6 to 8 turns clockwise....another 6 to 8 turns counter clockwise. I only rarely find doubled pins, never had one lengthwise wedged in case bottoms of .223, and never stuck one inside a case along sides. Maybe those with that last problem aren't rinsing with clean cold water enough? Sure do like wet tumbling results! Will always be appreciative to Dryflash3 and this forum for presenting the idea! Made reloading funner.....bling puts me in a better mood....better mood makes me shoot better....what's not to like? Below: Swaged, ready to trim....easy to to inspect at this stage. https://s20.postimg.cc/x0po6sptp/IMG_2828.jpg This was in 2010 IIRC. Still using those same pins. If I had to guess I have culled about 100 pins from those 10 pounds. |
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Posted: 9/7/2018 1:46:20 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Anyone else ever send one down a tube? The few times I used grains (rice, wheat, or oats), or pins (lead, steel, stainless steel or bronze) - I've tried them all - each case was inspected using an otoscope to ensure nothing was left behind. What happened, and did you see any negative effects on accuracy? |
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Posted: 9/7/2018 8:45:28 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wet tumbling pins. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Not sure what you mean SS rods? In the Army we used to shoot cleaning rod sections out the rifle with blank rounds. |
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Posted: 9/7/2018 9:19:57 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In my case, no. The few times I used grains (rice, wheat, or oats), or pins (lead, steel, stainless steel or bronze) - I've tried them all - each case was inspected using an otoscope to ensure nothing was left behind. In my case, nothing since I took the time to inspect every case. If a stainless pin was not discovered and shot down the barrel, I would expect deformations where the pin impacted the barrel on its trajectory towards the target. Whether these deformations will impact accuracy is something that must be tested with each individual barrel. As far as testing goes, I totally understand this is non-scientific. I don't think any shooter wants to take a good barrel and shoot pins down it for the sake of science; plus, you'd have varying results depending on where/waht the pin impacted on the way down the barrel. For it to be statistically valid, you'd need to shoot pins down hundreds of barrels to draw a repeatable conclusion. Merely looking for generic reports from folks that have done it. My suspicion is that vastly more shooters have sent one down the tube than they realize; they just don't have a way of knowing it. |
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Posted: 9/7/2018 12:44:40 PM EDT
[#28]
There's a final way to QC check loaded ammo - if you're worried. All you need is a basic smartphone:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Method_for_detecting_stainless_steel_media_pins_in_loaded_ammunition___QC_check/42-458942 Gauss meter app on the phone - good ammo. 
Calibration test with a pin in an empty casing: 
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Posted: 9/13/2018 9:30:25 AM EDT
[#29]
I was just about to get into wet tumbling... but since inshoot suppressed 99.9% of the time, I’m now considering sticking with ultra sonic and dry tumbling.
So really, this potential problem doesn’t really have a good solution and the chips are a pain? |
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Posted: 9/13/2018 9:51:39 AM EDT
[#30]
Maybe? Not that I know of. I tumble them in the media separator after the cases are dry and that seems to unlodge any stuck pins if there was any. VERY rare I have a pin show up in this step, maybe 2 times in 100+ batches of brass.
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Posted: 9/13/2018 10:24:18 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was just about to get into wet tumbling... but since inshoot suppressed 99.9% of the time, I'm now considering sticking with ultra sonic and dry tumbling. So really, this potential problem doesn't really have a good solution and the chips are a pain? The pins work very well if you get quality pins. (buy them with the tumbler) My method of separate pins is different from most everyone else's, covered here in the first 2 posts. https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Wet-tumbling-with-SS-media-lots-of-pics-New-info-second-post-10-02-2015-/42-344832/ And you don't need a magnet. |
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Posted: 9/13/2018 10:34:19 AM EDT
[#32]
I only use corncob media, it goes out no issues.
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Posted: 9/13/2018 3:20:16 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was just about to get into wet tumbling... but since inshoot suppressed 99.9% of the time, I’m now considering sticking with ultra sonic and dry tumbling. So really, this potential problem doesn’t really have a good solution and the chips are a pain? When I first got into tumbling, I used magnets to police up dropped pins, but ultimately stopped that because it seemed to exacerbate the issue of them sticking (you basically magnetize them, and it causes them to stick together). Now I only use a water-submerged RCBS rotary media seperator but it'll still stick them (at least for me). IMO it doesn't matter if you shoot suppressed or unsuppressed, the danger is having one damage a barrel. I still wet tumble, but much less frequently than I used to, and I don't tumble for nearly as long when I do (case mouth peening). You've just got to be ultra diligent about case inspection, because they don't always stick in the neck or the flashhole, even if you use a rotary separator. As I alluded to earlier in the thread, I suspect a lot more people have launched one down the barrel; they just have no way of knowing it. Suppressors while more common today still aren't mainstream, and far fewer own a quality borescope (i.e. hawkeye). That's been my experience, but as you can tell from this thread, results can vary. |
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Posted: 9/14/2018 6:36:00 PM EDT
[#34]
Pics like those posted above are why I've stayed with corncob media
I shoot a lot and don't care about "pretty" |
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Posted: 9/15/2018 12:51:38 AM EDT
[#35]
Not trying to be a jerk, just saying....
The solution to "this problem" was identified in the original and second post, and in every reloading manual I have ever read, including those written before wet tumbling with pins = Inspect the brass prior to loading. Period. Yes, this rule may have additional meaning if using pins. Yes, if you want to be 100% sure you will never miss a pin, don't use them (and still inspect your brass). 99.9% (IMO) of damage caused by reloads are due to reloading errors. Some more catastrophic than others. Adding ... For me .... if I can't trust that I am catching pins, I have no business trusting that I am watching for double/over/under charges, following the correct recipe, etc, or grabbing the right powder for that matter....or other things that could potentially be far more damaging than sending a pin down the pipe. The rules are there for reasons .... some people don't follow them all, or make mistakes. Reloaders who don't inspect their brass prior to reloading should not only not be using pins, they shouldn't be reloading at all in my world. I am not claiming to be infallible! If I have a problem with my reloads, I know where the fault lies.... as did the OP, as he blamed his own reloading procedures. (OP... have I fired one? Not that I know of ... and frankly ... in general, there is probably more rifle accuracy damage done with cleaning rods than will ever be done with pins across the board IMO) |
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Posted: 9/15/2018 2:23:46 PM EDT
[#36]
I find corn media stuck in 223 cases more than find SS pins. I use corn media to clean the lube off all brass after case prep (size/trim/etc). Using a long Q-tip to swab the inside of the case before charging to clean out stuck corn media. Figure corn media won't help accuracy.
I also run a strong magnet over the cases to uncover a stuck pin after drying. Using a rock chucker so there is a lot of case manipulation and with batch processing it helps to uncover issues. |
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Posted: 9/16/2018 2:57:31 PM EDT
[#37]
20/40 grit corncob is small enough to not get clogged in the primer holes
a 50lbs bag will last a long long time |
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Posted: 9/16/2018 10:29:28 PM EDT
[#38]
This is a wet tumbling thread, please don't go off topic talking about corn cob.
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