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Posted: 10/22/2018 11:43:45 AM EDT
[#1]
I have a D2, but disclaimer, I haven't gotten to use it yet as I purchased it in preparation for my upcoming nods purchase. I figured I'd be kind of upset if I got the nods in and had nothing to use them with, lol.
From everything I have read. The D2 is the only unit with an illuminator that is powerful enough to stick with the MAWL or the full power units. The reason for this is they can put more juice through it because it is an LED based illuminator rather than laser. The laser illuminators have regulated output. The MAWL is laser based but they have used some sorcery to make it a monster. The full power units are laser based but are much higher output. The drawback to the LED illuminator is that it glows red out the front. Not much, but it does. If you're hunting with it, probably not a big deal, especially if you aren't moving around with it on. Hunting people, might be a problem. Other than the MAWL the civilian laser illuminator models such as the ATPIAL C/PEQ, dbal A2 and I2, etc... from what I've been reading are really only useful out to about 100 yds or so illuminator wise. Whereas the MAWL and D2 illuminators are good to about 300, maybe further depending on conditions. The lasers are typically good for the long ranges on all the units. Or so it has been told to me. |
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Posted: 10/22/2018 11:59:30 AM EDT
[#2]
Great info thanks.
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Posted: 10/22/2018 12:17:52 PM EDT
[#3]
The D2 with a good NV system will get you out to 500 yards, but know that it accomplishes this via an LED illuminator meaning it can be seen with the naked eye out to at least 50 yards if you shine it into somebodies/somethings eyes. If you are going for as passive as possible i would recommend other systems.
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Posted: 10/22/2018 1:30:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The D2 with a good NV system will get you out to 500 yards, but know that it accomplishes this via an LED illuminator meaning it can be seen with the naked eye out to at least 50 yards if you shine it into somebodies/somethings eyes. If you are going for as passive as possible i would recommend other systems. |
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Posted: 10/22/2018 3:06:17 PM EDT
[#5]
even with a Good PVS-14 an aTPIAL-C aint gonna get you past 100 yards and realistically it'll be 75-80 yards.
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Posted: 10/22/2018 8:09:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good to know. Can't afford the MAWL. Would peq 15 be best application in price range for 100 yd-150 engagements? This would be with a wp pvs 14. Are you experienced enough under NODs to make a 100-150yd shot with a laser? People can give recommendations out the wazoo, but if you dont have the skill set established it won't matter in the slightest. |
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Posted: 10/22/2018 8:23:50 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My first question would be this. Are you experienced enough under NODs to make a 100-150yd shot with a laser? People can give recommendations out the wazoo, but if you dont have the skill set established it won't matter in the slightest. |
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Posted: 10/22/2018 8:59:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess I am I can hit 8in steel at 100 with I2 now. The MAWL is awesome but $2500. |
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Posted: 10/22/2018 9:11:40 PM EDT
[#9]
As has been previously stated. The D2 has a giant glowing red orb effect when viewed from the front....it is a huge issue if you’re looking for the two legged opponents. I owned one and dumped it for that reason.
For a law enforcement use it’s a huge issue as you generally don’t know where people are at when you’re looking for them under nods. IE dude hunkered down in a shadowed building/garage etc while there is ambient light you’re searching for but don’t know where he is. I have an A3 for my use urban LE it works great but limited range. ..... NOW IF TNVC WOULD JUST PUT OUT A DAMN SUREFIRE/ STEINER Y-CABLE TAPS PRO .. IT WOULD BE PERFECT. |
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Posted: 10/22/2018 11:26:34 PM EDT
[#10]
With a D2 there is no huge glowing giant orb effect from its illuminator. It's a small very faint pinkish hue that is emited at a very certain angel out to about 50 feet like TNVC Sam said. If anyone has a pic disputing this please post it.
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Posted: 10/22/2018 11:50:22 PM EDT
[#11]
The overwhelming majority of the time when I need IR light to find a person, I'm using the Vampire( which also has a faint glow) mounted to my helmet. Swinging my rifle around as a LEO to search for somebody is gonna get me in hot water at the least and at worst have me muzzling innocent people that are in the wrong place. The burden and liability of swinging a loaded rifle around is the same regardless of context or profession. Once I deem it necessary to turn that rifle mounted IR laser and light on, I've already found the intended target( or something has given me good reason to point my rifle that direction) and if it turns out I'm wrong I'm not just walking around with the illuminator on. Properly utilized, the risk of someone "shooting at the light" from the D2 should be next to non-existent as should the risk of giving yourself away. Proper light discipline shouldn't go out the window just because you've changed spectrums.
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Posted: 10/23/2018 3:08:38 AM EDT
[#12]
Another FYI if your concerned with a IR LED faint signature indoors you can always point your illuminator towards the ground or ceiling depending on your situation. By doing this your illuminator will light up an entire room of most structures. That way you will remain black without the fear of loosing your advantage. I run a SureFire M1 on my helmet pointed up as a room lighter. It works well especially for doing attic searches where you have to pop your head out of the rabbit hole to clear that area.
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Posted: 10/23/2018 9:23:28 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The D2 is the answer. The end. It’s incredibly powerful. The downrange detectability is a non issue if you pay attention. And that’s not just my opinion. That’s from John Lovell too. The MAWL is awesome but $2500. |
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Posted: 10/23/2018 11:40:23 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was old business, John is on the MAWL train now. I'm his A.I. But guess what? It’s $2500. All the noobs say the exact same thing when they make their post asking about LAM’s. They like it but it’s too much. I’d love to see the math and projections the people responsible at BE did to figure they’d make the most profit at X units moved at the $2500 price point. I mean you’d think a company like that would do it right but you’d be shocked at how many places do it the bro way. “Bro, this new product is dope! Let’s price it high because people will still buy it! Yeah bro, it is dope! You’re right, no one will buy anything else because reasons” |
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Posted: 10/23/2018 12:41:41 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As has been previously stated. The D2 has a giant glowing red orb effect when viewed from the front... when did you do your testing? you have pics? |
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Posted: 10/23/2018 1:25:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m sure he is. Everyone is if it weren’t $2500. But guess what? It’s $2500. All the noobs say the exact same thing when they make their post asking about LAM’s. They like it but it’s too much. I’d love to see the math and projections the people responsible at BE did to figure they’d make the most profit at X units moved at the $2500 price point. I mean you’d think a company like that would do it right but you’d be shocked at how many places do it the bro way. “Bro, this new product is dope! Let’s price it high because people will still buy it! Yeah bro, it is dope! You’re right, no one will buy anything else because reasons” A boat load of R&D went into the development of the MAWL it a massive paradign shift from traditional boxes on top of rails that all the previous lasers from competitors are, ergonomics we placed high on the list of needs for this laser as was capability. The Laser diodes alone are a completely different tech than previous laser systems. Mode switching from low to high and back to low is faster more intuitive in the dark than anything out there. The price of an LA-5B is like $3600, obviously not available to civilians. So at $2500 for a MAWL DA thats not a bad deal at all. You're asking yourself but what do class 3 lasers have to do with this situation....the C1+ is 80% of what a DA is in terms of illumination capability, it differes only in the laser diode power to remain eye safe. So for the Price and capability its worth it to a a few thousand people at this point, myself included. I own 7 MAWLs both C1+'s and DA's and I have a hard time telling the difference between the 2 unless you are in high power mode. I have compared them side by side with every laser on the market and even though the MAWL is by no means new, it's still crushing the competition. |
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Posted: 10/23/2018 2:14:58 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Another FYI if your concerned with a IR LED faint signature indoors you can always point your illuminator towards the ground or ceiling depending on your situation. By doing this your illuminator will light up an entire room of most structures. That way you will remain black without the fear of loosing your advantage. I run a SureFire M1 on my helmet pointed up as a room lighter. It works well especially for doing attic searches where you have to pop your head out of the rabbit hole to clear that area. |
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Posted: 10/23/2018 2:19:56 PM EDT
[#18]
I’m not sure how the performance is, as I haven’t researched it. But another option is to pick up a used, older, full power unit. I have seen a few PEQ 2’s for sale recently for around 8 bills. But from what I understand you need to do your homework to make sure it isn’t stolen. You also need to realize if it breaks, there is no one in the industry including the manufacturer that will help you fix it.
Others can verify the accuracy of this post, including whether or not the peq 2 is a viable unit. |
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Posted: 10/23/2018 2:32:05 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't take this the wrong way, but the MAWL was not developed for the consumer in mind it was developed for the Mil/LE market first and foremost, its only through certain people's work at a few companies, TNVC being one of them, that the C1+ is even a thing. A boat load of R&D went into the development of the MAWL it a massive paradign shift from traditional boxes on top of rails that all the previous lasers from competitors are, ergonomics we placed high on the list of needs for this laser as was capability. The Laser diodes alone are a completely different tech than previous laser systems. Mode switching from low to high and back to low is faster more intuitive in the dark than anything out there. The price of an LA-5B is like $3600, obviously not available to civilians. So at $2500 for a MAWL DA thats not a bad deal at all. You're asking yourself but what do class 3 lasers have to do with this situation....the C1+ is 80% of what a DA is in terms of illumination capability, it differes only in the laser diode power to remain eye safe. So for the Price and capability its worth it to a a few thousand people at this point, myself included. I own 7 MAWLs both C1+'s and DA's and I have a hard time telling the difference between the 2 unless you are in high power mode. I have compared them side by side with every laser on the market and even though the MAWL is by no means new, it's still crushing the competition. |
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Posted: 10/23/2018 2:39:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: own’s 7 mawls?? either your rich or you get one hell of a discount! 
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Posted: 10/23/2018 3:11:37 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He works with TNVC. It's in his job description to own 7 MAWLs |
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Posted: 10/23/2018 3:12:47 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: this is separate from TNVC. These are personally owned not TNVC demo units. 
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Posted: 10/23/2018 8:47:54 PM EDT
[#23]
My first MAWL should be here early November. I learned a while back to just save longer and buy what it is I really want. Whenever I bought the less expensive option, I always ended up selling it for a loss and buying what I really wanted in the first place. This just ends up costing more money in the long run...
Sometimes what I really wanted was the cheaper option, which is great. But if what I really want is the more expensive option, I just save longer. Actually saves me money. Just my opinion. |
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Posted: 10/23/2018 9:31:53 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the MAWL was not developed for the consumer in mind it was developed for the Mil/LE market first and foremost |
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Posted: 10/23/2018 9:49:56 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The MAWL looks great for sure but can you speculate as to why SOCOM chose the NGAL instead? |
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Posted: 10/23/2018 9:52:15 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't take this the wrong way, but the MAWL was not developed for the consumer in mind it was developed for the Mil/LE market first and foremost, its only through certain people's work at a few companies, TNVC being one of them, that the C1+ is even a thing. A boat load of R&D went into the development of the MAWL it a massive paradign shift from traditional boxes on top of rails that all the previous lasers from competitors are, ergonomics we placed high on the list of needs for this laser as was capability. The Laser diodes alone are a completely different tech than previous laser systems. Mode switching from low to high and back to low is faster more intuitive in the dark than anything out there. The price of an LA-5B is like $3600, obviously not available to civilians. So at $2500 for a MAWL DA thats not a bad deal at all. You're asking yourself but what do class 3 lasers have to do with this situation....the C1+ is 80% of what a DA is in terms of illumination capability, it differes only in the laser diode power to remain eye safe. So for the Price and capability its worth it to a a few thousand people at this point, myself included. I own 7 MAWLs both C1+'s and DA's and I have a hard time telling the difference between the 2 unless you are in high power mode. I have compared them side by side with every laser on the market and even though the MAWL is by no means new, it's still crushing the competition. |
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Posted: 10/26/2018 12:58:07 AM EDT
[#27]
I think its funny to worry so much about the DBAL D2's led illuminator for shtf
in a high stress situation, its easy to miss basic things, let alone a faint red flash in the distance. way more likely is that a badguy has night vision and would see any illuminator |
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