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Posted: 4/26/2023 9:23:24 AM EDT
[#1]
16" with no can.
I have an RC2, I literally never use it. It's fucking loud without a can, and it's fucking loud with one. Who gives a shit if it is 164 db or 144 db? Either way it's quiet with muffs and either way it's not hearing safe. It is my most regrettable purchase in this hobby to date. I simply don't see a use case for 5.56 cans when you're just blasting at the range. The weight (or barrel length compromise in your scenarios) are not worth the trade off as those things are much more noticeable. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 9:28:48 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 16" with no can. I have an RC2, I literally never use it. It's fucking loud without a can, and it's fucking loud with one. Who gives a shit if it is 164 db or 144 db? Either way it's quiet with muffs and either way it's not hearing safe. It is my most regrettable purchase in this hobby to date. I simply don't see a use case for 5.56 cans when you're just blasting at the range. The weight (or barrel length compromise in your scenarios) are not worth the trade off as those things are much more noticeable. I’m polar opposite. Cans are my by far favorite purchases. Have one for every gun. For me, in and out of vehicles all night, smaller the better. A 10.5 with a k can is great. Cans are to cut flash, tame the blast and noise. Unsuppressed 5.56 out of a shorty goes from “satan is sticking his wiener in my ear” to “might still want to wear ear pro but if not it’s not the end of the world.” Not to mention not having a Nagasaki fireball make your nods want to die. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 9:30:32 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m polar opposite. Cans are my by far favorite purchases. Have one for every gun. For me, in and out of vehicles all night, smaller the better. A 10.5 with a k can is great. Cans are to cut flash, tame the blast and noise. Unsuppressed 5.56 out of a shorty goes from “my ear drums just exploded” to might still want to wear ear pro but if not it’s not the end of the world. Maybe it makes a bigger difference on shorter barrels.  On my 16" I'd rather just leave it off. I've owned it five years and I have less than 100 RDS through it. Meanwhile my 300 BLK can has 42k rounds and counting through it. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 9:33:15 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe it makes a bigger difference on shorter barrels. On my 16" I'd rather just leave it off. I've owned it five years and I have less than 100 RDS through it. Meanwhile my 300 BLK can has 42k rounds and counting through it. If you are on a flat range with other people I could totally see it not being a big deal. But killing piggies with your bros it becomes a muuuuuuch bigger deal imo. I have a lot of setups too that are totally fine without ear pro. Maybe not a good idea long term but for hunting or doing hood rat shit whatever. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 9:33:56 AM EDT
[#5]
Hmm...not sure what to say here.
My 12.5 with a SiCo Specwar is not bad; we do predator hunts and no one complains...throw the SpecwarK on and it's a little rough/ I hearing pro when I do. The Hybrid46, Chimera, Omega all manage the noise comfortably...without hearing pro. The 14.5, 16, 18 uppers all have better performance... Full Disclosure...not a Tier 1,2,3 or arm chair Operator operating Operationally with my test analysis. Apparently, your results are different...hearing pro solves your problem. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 9:44:26 AM EDT
[#6]
10.5/11.5 sweet spot for me.
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Posted: 4/26/2023 9:46:23 AM EDT
[#7]
Few examples for my ideal setups.
I have a 12.5 on the Grendel with a k can. Works great.  Attached File11 something with a aem5 comes out to 17” oal on the length and does well too.  Attached FileBut I think the mk18 is still the perfect size with a k.  Attached FileAll of these are fine in the open without ear pro. Probably not smart for lots of fire though. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 9:47:54 AM EDT
[#8]
I think the sweet spot is a 14.5 mid length gas with nothing lower performance than an M4SDK. The mid length gas drops ear sound a bit from the carbine gas barrels and I don’t know if there are shorter barrels on mid gas.
I guess 13.9” barrels are made with mid length gas, so those might be nice also. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 9:50:39 AM EDT
[#9]
They make 12.5” barres now with mid gas…
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Posted: 4/26/2023 10:01:43 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They make 12.5” barres now with mid gas… That seems as though it would have no dwell time like a 10.5, and would promote the crap reliability of a 10.5. The army knew the 10.5 carbine gas was half as reliable as an 11.5 in ~1967 when the XM177-E2 11.5” was chosen over the E1. Both of those also had the benefit of the XM moderator to increase system dwell like a Krinkov brake. SOCOM apparently is now running the 11.5 again in an effort to improve reliability. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 10:16:33 AM EDT
[#11]
With my limited time with suppressors, I prefer a 10.5 carbine to my 16 mid-length, both with a full-size YHM T3. I haven't shot any K cans on rifles, that I know of. I shot another 10.5 with a can, but I didn't know anything about silencers back then, so I couldn't tell you what it was. It was awesome and had a Black River BCG.
 Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 10:26:52 AM EDT
[#12]
I went with a K can on my 12.5 and a full size for my 10.3. I'd probably go a K can on a 10.3 as I can barely tell a difference between them on it. They both balance well, but pulling back the weight a little on the end of the 10.3 with the flashlight out front would be nice.
 Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 10:41:08 AM EDT
[#13]
my sweet spot is an 11.5 with full sized can.
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Posted: 4/26/2023 11:10:54 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That seems as though it would have no dwell time like a 10.5, and would promote the crap reliability of a 10.5. The army knew the 10.5 carbine gas was half as reliable as an 11.5 in ~1967 when the XM177-E2 11.5” was chosen over the E1. Both of those also had the benefit of the XM moderator to increase system dwell like a Krinkov brake. SOCOM apparently is now running the 11.5 again in an effort to improve reliability. No denying that ... I wouldn't want it ... Perfect short barrel in my opinion is 11.5" CAR ... but the best is 14.5 middy ... that said ... my FN 16" CAR is exceptionally gassed 
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Posted: 4/26/2023 11:18:48 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They make 12.5” barres now with mid gas… This is the way. An 11.5” mid-gas works but the gas port is so big to operate without the can you need an adjustable gas block. And 11.5” doesn’t leave much room to slip an Allen key between muzzle device and front adjustable gas block. (I had to cut a key very short on the short leg). It’s sweet shooting, even Jay at Pew Science has liked shooting his. Not sure why he hasn’t tested it suppressed and tuned. Wisdom of the mob I guess. I have been shooting mine with a can since Faxon released it 7ish or more years ago. The 12.5” mid-gassed barrels are available with suppressor sized ports or over-gassed for adjustable. Is a nice size, balance, handguard length, velocity, blast trade-off. Triarc, Sionics, KAK, and I think BA/Aero have made various versions/contours/port sizes/prices. My 12.5” is a KAK. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 11:23:27 AM EDT
[#16]
14.5 Bren 2 P/W and K can. My favorite.
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Posted: 4/26/2023 11:41:22 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is the way. An 11.5” mid-gas works but the gas port is so big to operate without the can you need an adjustable gas block. And 11.5” doesn’t leave much room to slip an Allen key between muzzle device and front adjustable gas block. (I had to cut a key very short on the short leg). It’s sweet shooting, even Jay at Pew Science has liked shooting his. Not sure why he hasn’t tested it suppressed and tuned. Wisdom of the mob I guess. I have been shooting mine with a can since Faxon released it 7ish or more years ago. The 12.5” mid-gassed barrels are available with suppressor sized ports or over-gassed for adjustable. Is a nice size, balance, handguard length, velocity, blast trade-off. Triarc, Sionics, KAK, and I think BA/Aero have made various versions/contours/port sizes/prices. My 12.5” is a KAK. Do you know what your 12.5" KAK barrel port size is? |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 12:01:35 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Like most everything else, there are trade offs with both barrel length and suppressor size. Higher velocity vs shorter OAL and quiet can vs short can. My question is where is the "sweet spot" regarding barrel length vs suppressor length? The shorter the barrel, the louder it's going to be and we've got more options than ever in both barrel length and suppressor size. In about the same overall size package, you could have: A 10.3 with a full size (7.5-8") can A 12.5 with a compact (5-6") can A 14.5 with something like a Sandman K Obviously the longer the barrel, the greater velocity but how the the sound compare between three options like that? Look at what the .mil pros are doing: For short range work and indoors, mk18 10.3" with a smaller sized can. For long range work in the open spaces, Mk12 SPR with a big AEM5. Personally, I like the Turbo K on my 16" barreled AUG and X95 to straddle the difference. But I live in a dense forest so long range isn't a need and sound reflects back a lot making my rifles sound louder. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 12:06:24 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think there is a lot of "it depends" here. Look at what the .mil pros are doing: For short range work and indoors, mk18 10.3" with a smaller sized can. For long range work in the open spaces, Mk12 SPR with a big AEM5. Personally, I like the Turbo K on my 16" barreled AUG and X95 to straddle the difference. But I live in a dense forest so long range isn't a need and sound reflects back a lot making my rifles sound louder. True. It depends is the whole thing imo. Taking my mod 1 hunting would be doable, but I’d be smacking my musket into everything. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 12:07:39 PM EDT
[#20]
I like my 10.3" barrel with my IA Interceptor can (6.6"). It is a well balanced gun and the can helps a bunch.
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Posted: 4/26/2023 12:10:22 PM EDT
[#21]
12.5 mid gas K can or 11.5 carbine gas K can. I got both.
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Posted: 4/26/2023 12:11:04 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That seems as though it would have no dwell time like a 10.5, and would promote the crap reliability of a 10.5. The army knew the 10.5 carbine gas was half as reliable as an 11.5 in ~1967 when the XM177-E2 11.5" was chosen over the E1. Both of those also had the benefit of the XM moderator to increase system dwell like a Krinkov brake. SOCOM apparently is now running the 11.5 again in an effort to improve reliability. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 12:35:16 PM EDT
[#23]
The "best" is the rifle with a barrel length that meets your ballistic needs, with the shortest and lightest suppressor that is rated for the barrel length and shooting conditions for that rifle. IMO, can weight is more important than length. For 5.56, both are more important than sound reduction. That's just my $.02.
Most shorter SBR combinations will get you an end result that's about the same OAL as a standard 16" rifle. If you want to do much better than that, get a .300 or 6.8 or 6.5 8" barrel and put a 5" lightweight suppressor on it and end up with something about the same size as as 12.5" AR. 14.5" 5.56 with a compact lightweight suppressor is a great middleground. You end up with a very ballistically capable suppressed rifle, with the same OAL as a 20" AR. However, if you don't already have an SBR, it sucks to have to choose between pin and weld or 2 stamp gun, just to save 1.5" of OAL. And it's still too long to be great in a vehicle or indoors. A 16" rifle will usually get you a musket length 21.5" or longer with a suppressor. Not ideal for HD and it's really easy to get a heavy pig overall, if you aren't careful about everything you do weight wise. A pig of a suppressor is not a viable option for this in my opinion. The length and weight make it stupid. I've done this with short lightweight suppressors, and it's doable. Suppressing an 18" or 20" makes it basically unusable in a vehicle or for HD. And have fun holding all that front heavy gun up and good luck shooting from the standing position. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 12:40:07 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The "best" is the rifle with a barrel length that meets your ballistic needs, with the shortest and lightest suppressor that is rated for the barrel length and shooting conditions for that rifle. IMO, can weight is more important than length. For 5.56, both are more important than sound reduction. That's just my $.02. Most shorter SBR combinations will get you an end result that's about the same OAL as a standard 16" rifle. If you want to do much better than that, get a .300 8" and put a 5" lightweight suppressor on it and end up with something about the same size as as 12.5" AR. 14.5" 5.56 with a compact lightweight suppressor is a great middleground. You end up with a very ballistically capable suppressed rifle, with the same OAL as a 20" AR. However, if you don't already have an SBR, it sucks to have to choose between pin and weld or 2 stamp gun, just to save 1.5" of OAL. And it's still too long to be great in a vehicle or indoors. A 16" rifle will usually get you a musket length 21.5" or longer with a suppressor. Not ideal for HD and it's really easy to get a heavy pig overall, if you aren't careful about everything you do weight wise. Suppressing an 18" or 20" makes it basically unusable in a vehicle or for HD. Are you trying to tell me my cqb win mag was a bad idea?   Attached File |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 12:48:04 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you trying to tell me my cqb win mag was a bad idea? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/478694/704219994_763176public_jpeg-2796529.JPG I mean, if the rifle doesn't even fit in the picture frame, it may be a little on the long side for cqb  That is an awesome looking setup, I love a good .300Win Mag bolt gun. What in the hell are you evaporating with .300WM in Texas? |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 12:53:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The "best" is the rifle with a barrel length that meets your ballistic needs, with the shortest and lightest suppressor that is rated for the barrel length and shooting conditions for that rifle. IMO, can weight is more important than length. For 5.56, both are more important than sound reduction. That's just my $.02. Quote HistoryQuoted: The "best" is the rifle with a barrel length that meets your ballistic needs, with the shortest and lightest suppressor that is rated for the barrel length and shooting conditions for that rifle. IMO, can weight is more important than length. For 5.56, both are more important than sound reduction. That's just my $.02. Agree 100% Quoted: I mean, if the rifle doesn't even fit in the picture frame, it may be a little on the long side for cqb LOL. And it's at an angle even. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 1:02:36 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean, if the rifle doesn't even fit in the picture frame, it may be a little on the long side for cqb That is an awesome looking setup, I love a good .300Win Mag bolt gun. What in the hell are you evaporating with .300WM in Texas? Never know when the pigs could start drop shipping themselves plates. Especially now that drone delivery is a thing. Gotta stay prepared.  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 1:57:42 PM EDT
[#28]
11.5"-14.5" with a no longer than 5" can, that with the mount, adds no more than 15 oz.
It'll never be quiet, I just want it be a lot less loud, with minimal flash, not too long, and not too heavy, and a non unreasonable amount of back pressure. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 2:49:43 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never know when the pigs could start drop shipping themselves plates. Especially now that drone delivery is a thing. Gotta stay prepared. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/478694/704221184_788113public_jpeg-2796547.JPG  Attached FileI want the black tipped AP .300Win. Where do I get that? |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 3:15:59 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That seems as though it would have no dwell time like a 10.5, and would promote the crap reliability of a 10.5. The army knew the 10.5 carbine gas was half as reliable as an 11.5 in ~1967 when the XM177-E2 11.5” was chosen over the E1. Both of those also had the benefit of the XM moderator to increase system dwell like a Krinkov brake. SOCOM apparently is now running the 11.5 again in an effort to improve reliability. I think most if not all of them are designed to be used on rifles only shot suppressed. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 3:19:25 PM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 4/26/2023 3:52:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wouldn't a suppressor add the dwell time to do the same thing as the XM177 moderator and the Krinkov chamber thing do? It should do something similar- maybe to a lesser extent, but I would think people would want the gun to run reliably in suppressed and unsuppressed configurations, and would expect the 12.5, mid gas thing to be similar to the 16" rifle gas system which people claim is finicky in weather extremes. The distance past the gas port on an 11.5 is about 1" longer than what the 12.5 mid length would represent. In other words the 12.5 should have even less dwell than a 10.5, because the bullet is moving faster and the distance is approximately the same. I think the popularity of some of these platforms is tied to end users who don't ever shoot the gun without a suppressor, and don't really need the gun to be reliable without the suppressor. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 4:05:26 PM EDT
[#33]
been loving my 13.9 mid gas criterion and griffin explorr.
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Posted: 4/26/2023 4:19:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you know what your 12.5" KAK barrel port size is? A measured 0.093” drill bit fit, an 0.095” didn’t (#42 & #41 number drill). It’s over-gassed with a .30cal suppressor so I use adjustable gas, which was recommended by another user. Seemed reliable with Winchester white box unsuppressed with gas block wide open. I don’t recall ejection. I haven’t tried weaker ammo like Tula steel case. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 6:11:37 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A measured 0.093” drill bit fit, an 0.095” didn’t (#42 & #41 number drill). It’s over-gassed with a .30cal suppressor so I use adjustable gas, which was recommended by another user. Seemed reliable with Winchester white box unsuppressed with gas block wide open. I don’t recall ejection. I haven’t tried weaker ammo like Tula steel case. Thank you. Which can and gas block are you running on it? |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 6:44:20 PM EDT
[#36]
I prefer my 11.5 carbine. My 16 mid sounds better, but is LONG with a can. My 14.5 mid is probably a bit better at ear than the 11.5, but not enough to justify the added length. That said, I'm reconfiguring my 11.5 and that may change. Right now though, it's pretty great with the can.
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Posted: 4/26/2023 6:56:43 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 12.5 mid gas K can or 11.5 carbine gas K can. I got both. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/413906/microma_sbr_JPG-2161853.jpg  Brevis Ultra II suppressor is only 3.7" long and 5.8 oz in weight. Don't even notice it.  |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 7:00:10 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: In about the same overall size package, you could have: A 10.3 with a full size (7.5-8”) can A 12.5 with a compact (5-6”) can A 14.5 with something like a Sandman K Double-check your math; option 3 makes little sense. However, B) a 12.5” with whichever can you want. All cans are best on a 12.5”. Green0, I’ve noticed that gas system length matters less than the size of the port. In fact, I’m not convinced gas system length matters at all with 10.3”-14.5”, if the port diameter is right for a given length, and all of my 12.5”s (and 10.3”, 11.3”s, and most of my14.5”s) are carbine length gas systems. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 7:03:14 PM EDT
[#39]
There are too many variables in both the cans and the host weapons to put a really finite blanket number on it, but assuming a 10.5"-14.5" barrel and a can of at least 1.5" diameter with a reasonably efficient but mid to low backpressure core, 5"-6.5".
At the end of the day, anything putting down muzzle end SPL below about 138 dB is a point of diminishing returns on short critters, because port noise will dominate, even with gas adjustment. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 7:23:51 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like my 10.3" barrel with my IA Interceptor can (6.6"). It is a well balanced gun and the can helps a bunch. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/337946/20191211_211038-1192393.jpg Nice. What lower is that? |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 7:27:40 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you. Which can and gas block are you running on it? SLR-7 gas block and mostly Omega-300 with flat-.30 front and Plan A-XL on a minimalist griffin FH. Sometimes a Vox-S set up the same. They are similar sounding to me as shooter on 11.5”-12.5” 5.56 uppers so whichever can has that mount is usually what gets grabbed. I always plug at least right ear, and even tuned I won’t take more than a few shots without both ears protection. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 8:32:44 PM EDT
[#42]
Sweet spot? Probably a 14.5”/16” barrel with a K can.
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Posted: 4/26/2023 8:41:41 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Double-check your math; option 3 makes little sense. However, B) a 12.5” with whichever can you want. All cans are best on a 12.5”. Green0, I’ve noticed that gas system length matters less than the size of the port. In fact, I’m not convinced gas system length matters at all with 10.3”-14.5”, if the port diameter is right for a given length, and all of my 12.5”s (and 10.3”, 11.3”s, and most of my14.5”s) are carbine length gas systems. The mid gas settups run more quiet. The longer tube must reduce some sound, or the lower barrel port pressure isn't as noisy. I do see LMT has a 12.5 mid gas barrel. Maybe the people running that were going to be suppressor heavy? I would assume it must have gotten to some reasonable amount of reliability for that to happen. I'm surprised as I would think the length of barrel after the port is also relevant - for allowing the system pressurization to have some limited time to allow the system to function. The 12.5 mid would be cool with a suppressor, I would just be concerned about reliability without the suppressor. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 9:22:27 PM EDT
[#44]
11.5" middy with a 6"-7" can, tuned to only run with the suppressor. Mmmmmh so good.
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Posted: 4/26/2023 9:50:01 PM EDT
[#45]
I use a 11.5 with Surefire RC2 occasionally but prefer the 14.5 with Surefire mini
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Posted: 4/26/2023 10:05:08 PM EDT
[#46]
I have put them on basically everything I shoot with the exception of my C&R rifles. I was to the point of having to use ear plugs and ear muff to keep my ears from ringing with anything that had a FH/break on it. So I just put suppressors on them and shoot with plugs usually. Its way more comfortable for me and on my bolt action hunting rifles "seems" to reduce recoil. Not sure if that's just my impression or not. I really like them and since I rarely if ever shoot from anything but a bench the whole size/weight thing doesn't come up. Although I really am liking me EA Lux for my hunting rifles. Bottom line is there are so many variables between people and what the shoot and how and what they need to improve the experience that I don't believe there is a right/wrong answer. I do what works for me and you should do what works for you.
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Posted: 4/26/2023 10:11:28 PM EDT
[#47]
12.5 MID with Saker 556K
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Posted: 4/26/2023 10:42:54 PM EDT
[#48]
What works for me, not likely to work for you. Case in point, there's half a dozen posters before me raving about their 12.5/11.5" middy barrels. I just got done replacing an 11.5 carbine barrel with a 12.5 carbine barrel, because no matter what I did, up to and including drilling the gas port to .125, I could not get that bastard to run reliably below -15F.
Guess and test. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 11:12:38 PM EDT
[#49]
The SOCOM guys have gone to 11.5” (from the Mk18 which was fairly ubiquitous during the GWOT). IMHO that’s the “sweet spot” for a 5.56 carbine intended for on/off use with a can.
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Posted: 4/27/2023 12:00:38 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What works for me, not likely to work for you. Case in point, there's half a dozen posters before me raving about their 12.5/11.5" middy barrels. I just got done replacing an 11.5 carbine barrel with a 12.5 carbine barrel, because no matter what I did, up to and including drilling the gas port to .125, I could not get that bastard to run reliably below -15F. Guess and test. That’s a good point. I can’t remember the last time I shot below freezing or with a gun that didn’t start warm from a vehicle if it was cold by desert standards. |
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