aka...Help me decide what to get next.

Uses are LE, hunting and defense.  Right now I have a Gen 3 WP PVS-14 and MAWL.  

So what did you do when you had the basics covered?  Thermal?  Binos?  Right now I am leaning towards another PVS for wife, hunting buddies, kids, etc.  I am also considering a thermal, but don’t know if I want a Breach for mounting on my helmet, clip on or scope.  

So again, looking for what you did and your thought process as to why.  Would also love to hear anything you regret!

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Thermal for sure would be my answer.... especially today when there are all kinds of deals to be had!

Mono
Laser
Bino
Thermal Scanner
Night vision clip on
Thermal clip on
Coti

PVS7->PVS14->bridged PVS14's->

Decided the bridge is too heavy/annoying, still kept both PVS14's to have a spare/loaner

Then COTI (well, TACS poverty COTI)

Currently saving for either RNVG or BNVD

First a PVS14, then a 2-8 thermal. I would have loved to have either when I was a cop but could never afford. I sold both due to lack of use.

If you want a scope and want to be able to positively ID what you are going to shoot at than NV is the ticket. While a dedicated NV scope is best the various clip-ons are good to go and that is where I wound up. If you want to be able to use different rifles than a clip-on is best and some of the prices on units in the EE are really good.  .    

The only thing better than having a handheld thermal scanner is having a helmet mounted thermal unit. Nothing beats being able to walk around with a helmet mounted thermal unit. People say you cannot walk around with it but I do as I go slow and knowing your ground helps, heck I even drive my quad with mine on. You just see so much more life compared to walking and scanning from time to time.

I started out with a pair of Litton Goggles and a PAC-4B in 95 and have been under green ever since. After that went to a PVS-14 and everyone should have at least one, McMillan Visionmaster D/N 2-10x56 scope, added another 14, went to a McMillan Visionmaster D/N 6-16x80 scope I thought it was going to be an upgrade but it was just heavier, much heavier. After that I went to a 740 dedicated NV scope, back to a  McMillan Visionmaster D/N 2-10x56 scope (I have a love hate thing for them)  FLIR T50, fusion device, thermal clip-on/scanner, another 740, PVS-26, WASP, PVS-24. I have also had numerous IR lasers and beyond shooting at night with them for fun I never found them useful for hunting, IR illuminator yes, but not the IR lasers

By next hunting season I will have KAC UNS SR on a Wilcox flip mount as that has been on my list for some time now just have to find the right deal. I would also gladly give a kidney and a kidney from all of you to have a ENVG-B, just wish they would have put thermal channel in the left pod.

NV scope
Mono NV
Clip on NV
Extra mono NV
Thermal scanner
Thermal scope
Bino NV

Ton of accessories to go with it all...

Wants: Upgrade thermal scanner, COTI

I found that I'm an absolute master of buying something a month before a new and improve unit is released.

Sent you an IM

Seeing how you’re in TX if you’ll be going after hogs then a dedicated thermal scope would probably be the most logical. You can get a great scope for a lot less $ and better image unless you want to spend $$$ for a good clip on.

A -14 & breach could work since you have the MAWL but it seems most hunters use thermal scopes with more magnification or a 640 they can zoom. I’m no hog hunter and this info is just from my observations and what others have done/said.

My path - devices only:

PVS-14 to get feet wet

Dual PVS-14 to run bridged and so wife & I each had a-14

Binos mainly for me and for the wife to use & I’d run the dual -14’s

Thermal scope that I can use handheld or weapon mounted

Another bino because we both liked binos more than dual -14’s. Kept a single -14 for backup/loaner

Something to factor if you’re buying with the wife in mind. My wife tolerates my NV habit far more than most and really enjoys using it but....she uses it no where as often as I do.

I also like NV more than thermal, don’t have hogs, and live where you can’t hunt with NV/thermal. My uses are for recreation (hiking, stargazing, night shooting, etc) and preparedness (property protection, SHTF, etc).

A Breach would be better for work, spotting game, finding discarded evidence, locating a threat in brush. but mounting it on a helmet will be heavy.

Green average PVS-14 —> White high performance 14 —> Bridged white high performance PVS-14’s.

I really like the bridged Pvs-14 setup, but my advice is unless you have the need to separate the units (friends, spouses, etc..) or the extra grand or so just isn’t in the budget, I recommend dedicated binos. Much lighter, and more purpose built.

I started with a thermal scope. I'm thinking I need to backtrack.

Green 14-dual 14s-green RNVG-green DTNVG- Elbit WP RNVG- thermal monocular- L3 filmless DTNVG. There’s some other 14s, a 7, and a scope thrown in there as well. I’m very happy with the latest acquisition.

PVS 7 - Omni VII
GP PVS 14 - L3 commercial spec
Dual GP PVS 14s - Omni VIII
Single filmless WP PVS14 - 57 res 34.9 SNR
Single thin filmed WP PVS14 - 76 res 35.5 SNR
Single filmless WP PVS14 - 72 res 37.9 SNR

Personally I would go for a bino or a thermal next if I were in the same situation. Good thing is your already have a solid start, so the answer to your question is easily answered by your own use of what you already have. Start asking yourself what would make the biggest difference while you’re doing goon shit in the dark. A few times out doing that and you should be able to find a answer to that question

Mil contract overrun pvs-14
NVD WHP pvs-14
Elbit WP RNVGs
Soon to be NVD BNVD-SGs


I realized the second I got my feet wet I will never be satisfied in the NV game unfortunately.

I was able to buy, trade, and sell my way into Binos in less than 6th months I never thought I could do it but it’s crazy what you can achieve when you obsess over it

Bought a cheap digital monocular. Realized I needed to know what the real stuff was like.

Bought a thin film green phosphor PVS-14. Mind blown. I giggled like a little kid for the first several days I had it. But my night vision fever wasn't cured. I wanted to see what the best was like.

So I bought a high spec L3 filmless WP PVS-14. It still blows me away when I put it on.

Hopefully I will be able to move on to binos in the near future...

15s—>31s—->18s—->dual 14s——>thermal

PVS 7> mum 14> pvs 14> dual 14’s, sents, wp DTNVG, pas 29 coti, pvs 27.

Dual 18’s? Interesting.

Flashlight
Red Flashlight
PVS-14
IR flashlight
OTAL
PEQ-15
Raptor
SPIR
Pulsar Trail XP

You can tape almost anything together to make it work

PVS-7D -> PVS-14 -> PSQ-20 -> PVS-14 -> White lens -> Red Lens -> PVS-14

You can probally guess where I left the army there.

No NV.
PVS-14’s.
Sold nearly new PVS-14’s to buy better shit I actually used.
No NV.

borrows brothers MUM-14
Flir RS170 thermal sight
CNVD-T
MUM-14
Second MUM-14                                
UTC clip-on
UTM
Reap-Ir 35mm

With the sole purpose of hunting in mind:

Firefield gen 1 monocular (still have it, but use as a loaner )
Armasight CO-X HD gen 2 clip on
FLIR PTS233
PVS-30
IR Hunter 35mm

Current wants:
PVS-14 L3 filmless WP
Iray MH25
PVS-30 upgraded tube

The gaps I see for my needs are having something helmet mounted to scan constantly. The 233 functions mainly as a scanner, but having something dedicated to being helmet mounted would be a game changer I think. I haven't been out and felt disadvantaged with what I have now. The only thing I regret is not jumping in balls deep in the first place. I could have used that money towards my current wants now, but that's how it goes in this never ending, wallet draining game.

MUM14 with early Gen 3 aviation grade tube (OMNI II/III), since sold

PVS14 Omni VII

PVS18 with OMNI VII tube

FLIR Thermal 50mm 640 (30Hz)

Bought tubes from thief, returned them to company they were stolen from and received ANVIS9 Gen 3 OMNI VII as reward. Sold.

BNVDs OMNI VII

I’m considering selling all except the Thermal and using the funds to acquire a high spec set of RNVGs or BNVDs.

I’ve been playing around with NV and thermal since the early to mid 2000s, and personally started with a PVS-14 from Morovision way back in the day.  Ended up selling that unit and bought a new ITT NEPVS-14 Thin-Filmed AG unit that I still have.  I was also originally exposed to thermal years back when a particularly well-heeled (aka “loaded”) friend of mine bought the first thermal sight in the group.  I can never remember the name of that TWS but I do know he paid $22k for it some time in the mid to late 2000s.  I believe it was an iteration of a unit being developed for the Land Warrior System or something like that.  It was a monstrosity.

I eventually ended up first with a Pulsar Trail XP50 and then after having the zero shift issue those units were known for having I upgraded to the Trijicon IR Hunter Mk3 35mm that I have now.  The two things I would like to eventually add would probably be a set of WP binos (need to do some homework there) and either a second TWS or a dedicated scanner (to be used during night hunting).  Of course I also have a helmet setup and several IR lasers for my rifles, MP5, etc.

Sam, you make me feel old...my SERE was 1981 with the Viet Nam guys as instructors.

My continuing journey started in 2003:

PVS-7 (early gen 3)
PVS-14 (2012 tube)
Vital-2 aiming laser
Second PVS-14 (2013 tube)
FLIR LS-64
IR Hunter MK-II (2015)
DBAL A3 aiming laser
FLIR PS-32 (loaner for friends hunting with me)
REAP-IR (2019)
FLIR OTM266 handheld
MAWL EC2

If police work is your number 1 priority, I'd really want a handheld thermal scanner next.  It will point out hidden things that image intensifiers can't see.  Bonus would be one with video recording, but having it small enough to actually carry with you and use would be my top priority.  Working together, II and thermal are a great combination.  You'd have to talk to your department's counsel to see if thermal recordings are useful as evidence, but any hand scanner will enhance your situational awareness, helping you to protect yourself and quickly track targets that your NODS won't see.  Thermal has limitations (can't see through glass, most degrade with humidity, needs thermal contrast to work), but can see what night vision can't.

Disclaimer - I'm low speed, high drag, not law enforcement, and mostly a night pig/coyote hunter.  There are a lot more expert opinions here.  But if you've got NODS and an aiming laser, the thermal scanner will really help with detection and tracking.  Oh, and last point, 2 is 1 and 1 is none...it's an expensive but very enjoyable hobby!

1. ANVIS-9 with GP blem tubes


2. BNVD-SG with WHP+ tubes
   

Out of curiosity, why'd you go from BNVD SG WP HP+ ----> UL BNVD SG L3 Filmless ------> then back to BNVD SG WP HP+

?

Retired LE here, Brother. 30 years. Best to you.

I have used NV since the early days. Now have PVS-14.
I stopped there due to the cost of binos and the better "handiness" and versatility of the single tube, one eye device.

I bought thermal when I priced an EOTech X320 locally and got a far better-than-advertised price. Became so convinced of the advantages, I later bought a highest-option IR Patrol.
I use it far more often than NV. I chose that thermal for the solid technical reasons, and , equally as important in LE use, it runs on CR123 batteries. No lithium pack to go flat right when you need it. External battery packs are of no interest to me for a number of reasons. Our uses differ from a hog hunter's. Because it runs on commercial batteries, I can hand mine off and someone can run it 24/7 as long as their CR123 supply lasts. That is a big deal.

My suggestion is get a good thermal with the capabilities you want and buy a hell of a good white light to use every time you deploy the thermal. You can't tell a cop from a fugitive with the thermal. You will need to light him up to ID and to show your cover where the guy is. Nothing comes close to besting thermal plus a good white light at LE distances. With that combo, even an inexpensive, low res thermal can be a lifesaver. It can tell you where to go or shine the light, and where NOT to go or shine the light.

What I chose: I chose a 1X thermal for wide field of view. Some times you are the hunter, and sometimes you are the hunted. Makes sense to me to pack the wide field of view device to rapidly scan large areas. Bought a 3X Torrey Pines magnifier for it for use when I want that (want it and need it can be the same thing). Digital zoom doesn't come close to matching optical zoom. 2X digital is all I ever use. With the 3X on and 2X digital zoom, I can see very well and resolve a piece of a foot sticking out of the brush at a distance.

Mono M944
PVS-7
PVS-14
Laser
Dual PVS-14
MOD3
320 Thermal
Better IR Laser
Sentinel
640 Thermal
Better Head gear
Multiple Binos (current Setup - MOD3 MG, Sentinel, AGM NVG-40 Binos, PVS-7A)

In your situation , and is almost exactly where I am at

Thermal spotter or scope
Second 14 for spare or duals
Thermal scope for sure if spotter was in arsenal
BVNDs or RVNDs.
Pack mule to haul all that shit around.

Yukon NVRS gen 2, ITT Night Mariner gen 3, PVS-14...  fast forward fifteen years, 100+ NVDs, and 20+ thermals...  I have landed on the following cocktail that does everything I want it to do.  

One PVS-14 w/ nightcap for most things, one PVS-9 for my primary bolt gun, one PVS-27 for anything other than my bolt gun when shooting distance, one X640 for finding things, SWR Radius for ranging, and several IR lasers and IR illuminators.

ETA:  spelling is affected by beer

My first experience with NV was in the late 60`s. We lived on an overseas Naval base and occasionally my Dad had to pull night watch perimeter duty, He was issued some kind of hand held unit to use, and he let me look through it and I was amazed, that memory stuck with me and in the 90`s I went through a series of cheap Gen 1 scopes. My first was a Russian ON-1 dual tube goggle that I thought was great till I tried to walk through the woods with it and fell down and busted my knee. My first "real" unit was a Fairfield G2K, which was a PVS-5 tube with cheap lenses and a power supply glued on the can. When I learned the PVS-5 system was modular, I began buying goggles and parts and built monoculars with them. I built dozens of them in the early 2000`s. Surplus parts and commercial units were plentiful because of the switch to Gen III, and Bill Grube was selling nice tubes for $300.00, as many as you wanted. It was a great time for a poor NV nerd. My first Gen III was a broken PVS-7A that I bought for $200.00, replaced the switch with one from a PVS-5 and it was up and running, not much better than a good PVS-5 but I liked it. since then I`ve owned and repaired bunch of scopes, NQ 150/160 & 210`s NVEC monoculars, NVP-10`s, D-300`s, PVS-11`s, PVS-7B & C`s, PVS-4 based scopes, DEP, Photonis, an orange SAR-1 PVS-14, a 6015, a PVS-18, some Gen I & II ICCD`s, and a bunch of ATN Gen II & III crap. All used or broken. For a short period of time there was a plethora of ENVIS monoculars for cheap, I bought all of those I could afford and pulled the tubes and lenses and built monoculars using empty PVS-5 cans. the ENVIS oculars are a direct fit and with a c-mount adapter you could use the objective or any c-mount lens. I wish I had kept those objectives, they`re expensive now. I built my first PVS-14, an OMNI III, around the time I joined ARFCOM. I`ve had a bunch since, some OMNI IV & V`s some built using ANVIS tubes. I really like the OMNI V era tubes, especially The SELA commercial ones, they had great specs. better than a lot of newer ones.  Right now I have (in working condition) a set of OMNI VII dual PVS-14`s on a homemade bridge, A Photonis WP PVS-14, a PVS-7D, and a 7C with a D tube, a PVS-5 mono with a SuperGen tube, and I kept my best PVS-5 mono for sentimental reasons. I will say this as self proclaimed "King of the Poors",  you don`t have to be wealthy to own night vision if you work at it and trade up, this is a shady Industry at times, but if you study and pay attention you can have some nice stuff and avoid the pitfalls of the business. I`ve never been able to buy new, and still can`t although I`d love to have a set of smokin` filmless WP floppy boi`s, But there`s still time....

For some reason I thought you were in NV. If you’re looking for someone to get into trouble with at night let me know lol. It’s been a while since I’ve been out.

My progression:

Didn’t listen to everyone who said to not waste my money and got one of those Spark Core mono’s. I think that’s what it was called. Then I got a 7, which I loved. Then dual green Omni 7 pvs-14’s.  Then dual photonis echo 14’s. Then L3 WP filmless 14’s. Then sold off everything because my wife got a rare spinal cord disease (which we are still dealing with)

And I just barely scrounged up enough to get a green 14, and most likely another one in a week or two.

I would have liked to go back to WP filmless but can’t justify the extra coin at this point. In the future though, I’ll get a WP bino setup and keep the dual 14’s for wife/kid/friends.

My path? Hmm. Had my rifle set up with an EOTech so I could use NV. From there I picked up a MUM-14 from TNVC. Bad choice, I really should have went PVS. No real regrets though, the MUM uses the same tube. Also grabbed a cheap-o IR flashlight.
Stayed there for a LONG time. Would just mount the MUM to the rifle.

Did an NV shoot and saw the cool toys and good setups so....
Next up was a Steiner OTAL so I could get an IR laser.
Grabbed a Crye Nightcap (Because 300ish for a helmet is pants on head retarded. NV gear price is....annoying). It doesnt fit quite right, and I dont care for it.
Picked up a Sniper Hawg IR light
Emerson Helmet
4D pads.

Up next for me? Thermal no doubt. Thermal is to NV what NV is to the guy with a maglite IMO. I would argue in a detection/hunting realm there is no better.

But, it really depends what you want to do. Do you want to round out your current setup or do you want to expand your options for other people. Thermal will definitely round out your current setup. Binos are cool as hell, but the difference between none and one and one and two isnt so great IMO. You have one now, so you can get out and gitter done. I'd put binos low on the list if it were me. If you want to expand the selection to allow others to play, I'd probably look into a Sionyx setup. That gets you a spare rig pretty cheaply so friends and family can come play. If you want to round out your individual setup thermal no doubt.

Depending on your budget you could probably swing a lower tier thermal AND Sionyx at the same time.

I remember being young and wanting nightvision from all the spy type movies I saw.

My grandpa had one of those cheap things out of a magazine. It was awful but kinda worked. I think he got tired of toying around with it and let me have it.

Then when I was working at a gun shop in my late teens early 20s they had a Gen2 PS22 clip on sight that had sat for forever. I ended up trading some things for it. It was fun and worked pretty good for the price when using the supplied IR illuminator. It still left some wanting though.

I finally traded that PS22 off for a used gen 3 PVS14 and some cash. It got even better then. I remember being pretty astounded.

Last week I ordered a thin film WP BNVD and Im pretty excited and hoping for that same astounding feeling I had when I used a PVS14 for the first time.

Sorry to hear that and my prayers are with you both.

I left out my pre gen 3 stuff and other details (all of the different -14's, binos, etc.) but you're not alone, I fell for the Spark marketing also, lol.

You had that right. I was there, splitting time between both, and now here full time. I'm tucked away from civilization and don't leave much (especially right now). I'll send you an IM.    

Shitty thermal
Less shitty thermal
Couple of decent thermals
Good thermal
Great thermal
Decent 14
Above avg 14
Pretty nice 14

This is exactly why I suggested, small-ish, monocular gear.
In LE, it's got to be in reach, it's got to fit in a pocket or safe-to-fight-in pouch, it's got to work, and it must store and be ready and in reach when you need it, and it must not be in the way.

Cops these days are over-encumbered with more bullcrap gear than ever. Tasers and a less lethal shotgun, and a rifle and all the rest of it. They walk to their car after roll call  pulling what looks like a travel golf bag to haul it.
Keep it small. You have no room next to your seat for a helmet bag and a transit case for the thermal. There's enough junk there already to crush you in a low speed turn.

The work isn't recon, afoot  across the countryside very often. But it IS very often checking buildings and real estate, alleys and parking lots and just peeping suspicious guys halfway down the block..
When you lower the gear from your eyes, and you will, one eye MUST still be dark adapted.
When I was on the street, I might have had use for helmet mounted binos a half dozen times. A PVS-14 or thermal spotter would have been in use several times every day (a thermal, regardless of shift assignment).

Keep it practical.

My first NVG was a gift I got myself for college graduation/commissioning back in 2013. It was a well-used ITT 6015 with the non-manual gain dual-AA battery pack.

Eventually I upgraded to a newer TNVC Thin-filmed GP PVS-14 in about 2015. Around the same time, I got a used PVS-7 for stupidly cheap on ebay.

At this point, I just started to build my own, finding used or surplus parts on ebay, facebook, and on here (except not from Lamneth lol).

First bino was an Omni IV AVS-6, which I ran until I replaced it with a Gen 2 RNVG with Echos. I still have that RNVG, except the Echos were replaced with Elbits about 6 months ago.

One thing led to another and I've owned a ton of night vision systems, so I don't remember each individual one I've had. Currently I have three RNVGs and four PVS-14s. I'll probably hold tight with that for awhile, that's more than any one person needs as it is, but I might grab a DTNVS when they drop.

pvs-14, dbal ----->PS-32 thermal scanner ----> BNVDs, PEQ15(s), Atlas 50mm Thermal Scanner, HALO 25mm scope.

I got my first taste of night vision things at Cola Warrior 3 in 2013.  A few months later I bought a pvs-14 from TNVC.  Around 2014 or so, I acquired a set of avs-6 off a buddy of mine, which had early gen 3 tubes.  I also acquired a pvs-24 in 2015, I think.  I eventually got the tubes on the avs-6 upgraded to Omni VII tubes.  Around 2017 I sent the whole thing off to get made into MOD-3's.  Last summer, I acquired a COTI off a friend of mine, and that's where I sit now.  pvs-14, MOD-3's, pvs-24, and COTI.  I've acquired several lasers in all that time as well, but I still need to get a MAWL.  One of these days.

Current:

Early gen 3 PVS7, Crye Nightcap, Wilcox shroud and Rhino II mount.  Super comfy setup- even stable enough to trail run in.  It's all I could afford this year but I can still keep up with my friends who all have nice PVS14's.  I use a DBAL 9007.  It works perfectly for what I'm doing and doesn't bulk up my already 20" suppressed DMR.

Future:

RNVG, another DBAL 9007, Perst-3, PVS-27, thermal monocular, G19 w/RMR.

Can't afford much nice stuff now, but new job in fall should fund the addiction.

Cheap digital chyna night vision scope --> Rifle mounted thermal RXQ30V --> BNVD