I currently own-
-Henry .22, favorite rifle, not AS appropriate
-takedown 10/22, lots of parts and in a Backpacker stock, have never fired it, probably not AS appropriate
-old Marlin semiauto .22, in pieces with one mag

I would just shoot my primary AR but the closest one is rimfire only. I want to get a bolt Ruger American to shoot suppressed but have no interest in a 10/22; none of the .22ARs catch my interest either. Are the CMMG kits reliable enough for Appleseed shoots? I would keep everything else the same (optic, sling and light).


Thanks!

I shoot two CMMG B collar conversions with CMMG dedicated .22lr barrels (diameter and twist rate), for Steel Challenge.... they are, however, around the 11" length...one was cut down from a 16" unit, that when topped with a 4x32 ACOG shot 1/2" or so groups, if I remember correctly at 25m with bulk ammo

if you already have an AR lower with good trigger this makes a very easy to maintain unit... easy to access the chamber and bore with a brush, and bolt face and feed ramp for cleaning... you may need a shorter mag for prone... I use BlackDog stainless feed lip mags and CCI SV for Steel Challenge matches

I RSOed for three of them.  The people doing best used scoped Ruger 10-22s.  There are also aftermarket iron sights for the 10-22 to simulate military iron sights.  The program designer wanted people to do it with iron sighted 30 cal battle rifles.  Few places shoot it at actual distances only on reduced size targets at 25 meters (approx 28 yards).

There are mag changes in the program.

I did my only AP with a Kidd rifle I put together, in a KRG stock.  My primary mistake was the stock, magazine insertions under the time constraints were difficult due to the stock configuration.  I had a 2-7 scope, a fixed 4 power scope would have served me better.

I'm doing another when this white stuff is off the ground, My Kidd is going into a Tac Sol Vantage stock with a Lyman All American 4 power scope or I'll use a Ruger in a PWS Raptor stock that I'm working on with the Nodak Spud iron sights.

ETA. What I'm looking forward to is the Known Distance class.  I have a K31 with diopter sights I'm reloading for, only problem there is that the KD is during elk season.

@50-140 Why would the fixed power scope be better than the 2-7?

Just my own feeling, but the shooting was at 25 yards, I found myself paying too much attention to where the shot was on the target instead of shooting and moving on.  The thin crosshairs on the Lyman make it good for shots at that close a distance.

I shoot my Tippman M4-22 at Appleseed events and it has been a pleasure. I cleared Rifleman my first time out with it and just barely missed distinguished with my scope.

Personally, I have little experience with traditional stocks so it made sense to use something in the AR style.

Thanks all! I think I'll go with the CMMG conversion. 2 questions-
-looking at my ammo notes I have about 1000 Minimags and 4k Automatch. Do you think Automatch will be ok in the conversion?
-should I order the 10 or 25 round kit? I don't see myself using this much.

It'll be in this rifle, 16" PSA pencil barrel upper on a KP15 lower with a Leupold 2.5x20.

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We hold 4-6 Project Appleseed events at my gun club every year.

If you already have a Ruger 10/22 TD, I'd say that would be a better option then a conversion unit with a 223/5.56 barrel. Just make sure the TD adjustment is very tight.

If you go with a dedicated AR upper, that would be fine - but a lot of money to spend for something you say you will not use often.

Most people don't make "Rifleman" on their first event.

Using something you already have will cut costs and allow to see if/what gear changes you need to make.

I've seen folks make Rifleman with 10/22 TD's & rifles with Open sights, Red Dots & scopes of all powers.

If you have never used a sling for more than making it easier to carry your rifle, you will have a lot of new data to think about future mods.

Take what you have, come with an open mind to learn new stuff, and enjoy the time with good folks  

Stay safe,
Bob S.

The basics would be a at least a 10 round mag in semi-auto with sling.

I had a Rock River setup and was "that guy" on day one of the class.  By
day 2, about 1/3 of the group was shooting AR style rifles.

The problem with some red dot systems is that they can cover about 100% of the target.

2nd day of my first Appleseed, I scored a 211, 231, 232 and 219 with a bone-stock 10/22 and a cheap Bushnell non-magnified RDS with a 3 or 4 MOA dot.  The shingle is a 1" square, or 4 MOA and the dot I was using completely covered the target.   I think I would have done a bit better with some magnification, but the roughly $300 rifle definitely wasn't the limiting factor.  

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The first day, I used my B14R and that thing is a laser--off the bench or off the bipod, bullets go where you tell them to go.  I've shot 25 round groups (at 25 yards) that can be covered by a nickel.  It's also heavy, poorly balanced for unsupported, and a bolt rifle with big glass isn't the best option when you're shooting on the clock.  I didn't even break 200 with my $1200+ rig.

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I think your 10-22 will work very well.  I'd pick up two of the 15 round mags for the times when you need to do mag changes - easier than the little 10 rounders and much smaller than the 25 round mags.  

The only AS I did was with an ancient Remington .22 bolt action - so old it doesn't have a serial number...  I was more limited by the lack of adjustment in the sights and had to do a lot of Kentucky windage to hit the targets.

Next AS will be with a 10-22 in a MagPul stock with NoDak sights and 15 round mags.

Got mine today!

I’d be hesitant for the takedown rifle. I had a ton of issues with mine and one other that was on the line.
There are a couple companies that make a 10-22 knockoff (Thompson, Winchester and maybe one more) that are better factoriy triggers.

Huzzah!!!!

<<<< Former Appleseed instructor in training/rifleman, I stopped because life had other plans. Out of your choices I would go with the 10-22 and whatever sight/optic you are most comfortable with. You will need a minimum of two 10 round mags for doing the mag changes,having extra's never hurts in case you have mag problems for some reason. You will also need a good sling,a cheap USGI web sling is the easiest to work with. The AR conversion will work but may not be as accurate leading to frustration in getting good scores. Whichever you choose make sure you get out and have it sighted in for 0 @25 yards and also worked out any feed or function issues the Volquartsen  Extended Mag Release makes mag changes easier too

Link for the sling.

https://www.amazon.com/AmmoGarand-Green-Garand-Pattern-Cotton/dp/B072M6WBN4

Got my second Rifleman patch over the weekend and cleared my first Red Coat target with a "vintage" beat up 10/22. The rifle has sling studs, a Brimstone tier 3 trigger job, and an old cheap Simmons 3X9 scope, shooting CCI SV. The rifle has the accuracy to shoot the Rifleman's score with decent ammo, most of the time the operator not following the 6 steps is the problem.  In my limited Appleseed experience, unproven ammo and magazines can cause all sorts of headaches, along with a dry dirty rifle.
Whatever rifle you choose, take it out and zero it with the ammo you have, to make everything works together.
Good luck and have fun!

Thought I would share a pic of my rifle.

Having never been to Appleseed, something I hope to change soon, why is semi preferred over bolt?

Time limits I assume?
I would think they would do some math and add X seconds for bolt users to "even" the playing field.

I’ve shot Rifleman with a standard Ruger American Rimfire. If you can manipulate a bolt well, it’s plenty fast enough. The challenge is how well you can maintain or resume your position while doing it.

I got my Rifleman with a 10/22

Yup.    

Off the bipod, I can clean the target and get damn near a max score with no worries about time.....from slung positions, not so much. The only stage I did really well on with my bolt rifle was prone--I cleaned that, but it's the longest stage--plenty of time to reacquire and it's the most stable.

So, yes the bolt rifle is capable but you really need to be 'at one' with your rifle.  I only had a few hundred rounds through my B14R when I tried it at my first Appleseed, and my lack of familiarity with it showed.  Switching out to the 10/22 was the only way I made my Rifleman patch last time, but I've been practicing so I'm giving the bolt gun another try.  April 23rd can't get here soon enough!

In Gaston, I assume? I’ll be there


ETA: I’ve shot about a dozen Appleseeds, one thing I’ve noticed with shooters using scopes is they are more than often setup incorrectly… typically the scope is mounted too high preventing a consistent cheek-to-stock weld. This is generally a problem using a scope with the standard drop-comb stock designed for the standard blade sights; but it’s also a problem using Tech-Sights or similar.

Another scope issue is parallax due to shooting at 25yd with a scope designed/set for 150yd, or so. Parallax adjustment is a must for close range shooting.

Appleseed are very big on shooting with a hasty sling. The targets are scaled down to simulate longer ranges at 25yards.

If you have great eyes it can be done with a 10/22 with a 2point sling.  
If your eyes are OK to bad a 10/22 with 3-9x scope and 2point sling would work better.

I did it with an ar15 in 5,45x39 and iron sites.  I tried to put myself on the far right of the firing line because I was the only one without a rimfire and a family decided to sit to my right against my advice.  Only took a couple of mags of hot brass landing on them for them to change position.

Thanks all! What mags are compatible with the CMMG AR conversion? The 10/30 mags are rather bleh; maybe I should just get the regular 30's.

@MJ11B4P

Nope.  That's where I did my first AS.  I wanted to go there again but all 10 slots were filled by the time I found the new schedule.  I got into one up in the Charlotte area on the same day.  

It's actually the same distance from home, so no big deal.....but it would have been nice to be at a familiar range.

@FighterFixer1

I’ve shot Appleseed with the Charlotte group as well. The firing line is concrete so be sure to have a shooting mat… if you have a Midway or similar shooting mat, I’d recommend putting a layer of cushion material under it. Carpet remnants is probably the better choice there.

Have fun at the Liberty Seed!

@Bulldawg

Beautiful rifle. What stock is that?

@MJ11B4P - That's a factory Ruger walnut stock that I believe I picked up from Numrich a few years ago.  Doesn't look like they currently have this one listed.

I didn't have much luck shooting a conversion kit (after getting rifleman on my main .22) for appleseed. Had a CMMG in a PSA 16 inch that wouldn't hold a group smaller than ~1.75 at 25y.  

I shot the 2 I attended with a 10/22 on irons. I'm 2 shy from distinguished consistently so I'll try some different ammo. Volunteered for orange hat this past weekend.

ETA: Techsights for irons really do work well.  The limitation is the shooter.

Many years ago the popular Appleseed .22's were 10/22's, and the Marlin 795 (I think that was the model).   Other's were used but some of the semi-auto .22's don't have the reliability or accuracy required.  Or weren't broken in yet, not lubed properly, didn't have the best ammo for them, or the owner hadn't practiced with them enough to be able to use them efficiently and accurately.

Can a .22 conversion kit be accurate and reliable in an AR15?  Yes, but I don't think it's common just based on my own experience with three kits in 8 or 10 different AR15's.  Reliability is dependent on the kit, the lube, the ammo and correct break in of the conversion kit.  Accuracy is dependent on the ammo used and the barrel of the rifle.  The best shooting AR15 I have with a .22 conversion kit is an XM177 clone.  Dime sized 10 shot groups at 25 meters with Rem. Golden Bullets.  Makes the 10/22 look bad.  None of my others will shoot like that with any of the brands/bullets I tried in them.

Oh, POA vs. POI.  Be aware that POI will change with .22's vs. .223 ammo.  Could be anywhere.  Not just low.  If your AR is sighted in with .223 ammo you'll get the chance to re-zero with .22 ammo that first morning but you should write down the changes you make to your scope/iron sights so you know where to move it back to after the Appleseed.

Me?  I built a 10/22 up to be more like my M1/M1A rifles for sub-caliber practice.  Built means = used 10/22, Tech Sights, M1917 rear sling swivel, M14 front sling swivel, GI web sling, 1" spacer/buttplate to make it longer, and some extended 10 round magazines to make grabbing/changing the mags. more like the M1A.

Go to the RWVA website.  They used to have some links to lists of things to do to prepare for an appleseed, things to bring to the appleseed to help you get through it (lots of getting up and down and getting into/out of shooting positions that will make you stiff and sore as hell on Sunday morning so I'll just add that taking some pain pills - I used Aleve in those days - on Saturday night before you go to bed will help you feel better Sunday morning.)  

I also cleaned/lubed my rifles Saturday evening.  Don't need any surprise malfunctions Sunday.

Saw that comment in another post about not everyone shooting rifleman scores.  Absolutely true.  Might only be 25 meters but that doesn't make it easier.  Back in the early days only about 15 to 18% of the attendees shot a rifleman score on their first appleseed.  It might take two or three for you to really soak all the knowledge up and make use of it in your shooting.  I went to an Appleseed, didn't shot rifleman, went to one of the RBCs a few months later and had the time (5 days) to really get what we were being told/shown to sink in and start putting it to use.

brachiosaur.... re: CMMG conversion mags....I shoot Steel Challenge with a CMMG unit, but have used both an "A" barrel insert with Boonie Packer bolt hold open and SW 15-22 magazines and dedicated .22lr "B" collar units with both Black Dog beam welded and screwed together mags with investment cast feed lips as well as some generic Brownell and Black Dog polymer lip magazines...

with prolonged use the polymer 15-22 mags will have a wear groove where the cartridge rim contacts ...the follower of the BD gets a shot of silicone spray every month or so... and the feed lips had a felt wheel and some polishing done on them... I use an older set for practice... if you are going to shoot any form of competition, I'd suggest a Bore Buddy firing pin and hardened extractor for the CMMG unit... regards

Your 10/22 with tech sights.

It's more about getting comfortable shooting in positions with a sling and getting your natural point of aim than it is about your score.  

Based on OP's interrogative, recommend 10/22 or Marlin.  Bring extra magazines.

If OP has hankering for new steel, recommend any of the following:

Marlin 795 with Tech Sights
M1 Garand
M1 Carbine
M1A
1903A3
AR-15 with aperture sights

Automatch worked well for me.  As others have stated, make sure you spend some time beforehand to get sighted in at 25 meters.  Also read up on the Appleseed literature for setting up your GI sling.  Depending on the range, a shooting mat will help out.  I did mine on gravel with some Harbor Freight furniture blankets but recommend an actual shooting mat.  Spend some time with the conversion and figure out the weak spots.  I used the Bore Buddy reliability kit after shooting a few speed steel matches.  Also ended up getting a latchless charging handle with right side extension for charging while maintaining control with left hand and sling.  Again, as mentioned before, Black Dog 10 round mags are your friend when shooting prone.

Keep an open mind and prepare to learn, and most likely, be humbled by some 12 year olds with stock 10-22's and a cheap scope.

I think some posters are confused about CMMG rimfire AR15 conversions.

There are 2 ways to do it:

1) Drop a CMMG “conversion kit” into a 5.56/.223 AR
This works and is easy, but not very accurate because the barrel is not correct for .22lr

2) Use a CMMG bolt (same as above, but with a barrel collar instead of the chamber adapter) in combination with a dedicated rimfire barrel.
This can be extremely accurate when a quality rimfire barrel is used. I use a Beyers for example, and it is very accurate.

You really need to be picky with ammo if you're using a conversion, try a bunch of different ammo and see what works best in your rifle.  Depending on the barrel, the same ammo groups anywhere from 2-5 MOA when I move my CMMG kit around.

My advice is to try to find the shorter straight 10 rounders, I found that the regular 22 mags were a little long for shooting prone comfortably, and when you're shooting the AQT, every little trick helps.

I put this together to practice my offhand shooting and with hopes of shooting an Appleseed even one day.  It's a 20" CMMG 22LR barrel/Bolt with Lyman Target Sights on Lipski Bases.  I use the Redi-mag adapter and S&W 15-22 magazines for last round bolt hold-open function and a BAD lever for bolt release.  This thing is an absolute hoot to shoot.  Runs flawlessly.

I earned another Rifleman patch yesterday with my basic 10/22--only upgrades on this rifle are the sling, a 3-12 scope and a VQ trigger.  (scored 223) I could probably have done better if I had been able to go today--the 2nd day of this clinic.  I could use a little more practice on the mag and position changes, but I'm in the middle of moving and after lifting/carrying everything I own, I just didn't feel like driving 2+ hours each way.



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I

I did my first Appleseed this past weekend in Gaston, SC.  I had a bone stock 10-22 with a GI sling and the scope that was on the gun when I bought it from Sportsman's Warehouse.  Nothing fancy at all.  

I started off with bad bad scores that would have been around 150-160 if I had wasted the instructor's time to grade them.  My best score was a 202, which is a good improvement over where I started.  Getting into the NPOA is not as easy as it sounds and I've got a lot of practice to do.  The gun is much less important than the ability to get back exactly into a stable position repeatedly.  If you can get locked back on target over and over with little effort you will do good.  That is the hardest part for me.

In addition to thinking about your rifle you should consider your magazines.  I had trouble getting my mags to load into the rifle and bobbling the changes cost me time.  I was not able to complete the course of fire due to poor magazine changes.  Take a little time to slick up your mags so they are easy to insert and that they drop free.

@57plymouth

Yep.  Take a look at the second row on my target.  You only get 55 seconds to fire 10 shots and a mag change.  I bobbled my mags, lost count and ran out of time.  I have 4 shots on the first and only 3 on the second.


Scoring Rifleman at an Appleseed isn't as easy as people think.  When I'm behind my precision rifles from a nice comfy prone position with a beanbag and bipod, I'm a pretty good shot.  From practical shooting positions, using only a sling and proper position for stability, it's a different story.....but a lot of the fundamentals that are taught at Appleseed transition to other kinds of shooting.  I used a lot of what I learned at my first Appleseed to do this:

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Amazing how so many little things stack up in this type of shooting.  As you've pointed out, as have others, the equipment doesn't need to be exotic or expensive, it just needs to work well for the purpose.  The other equipment, the human brain and body, also need to be working well in many different ways.

There were roughly 12 shooters at my class this past weekend.  Of those 12, at least 8 had a 10-22.  I would say most of them were like my gun; basic box stock gun with a basic scope.  One kid had his grandfather's 10-22 with an equally ancient scope.  He had some other issues not related to the gun and had to leave the first day.  He came back to shoot for fun the second day.  I gave him my 25 round magazine to play with during the 5 minute last segment and he was having fun wearing it out.  

Moral of the story, a clean and lubed 10-22 with no modifications and a scope that is securely mounted (loctite that sucker in place!!) or a set of adjustable iron sights and a cheap GI sling will get the job done at Appleseed.