Just a few brands of pouches that I've looked at because many recommend, but what makes them so expensive? I wanted cheap ones and I made the mistake of buying the cheapest Blackhawk! pouches but they were too cheap and crappy. So I went milspec and upgraded to Eagle Industries which I think are pretty good. I can get unissued NOS Eagle Industries pouches for around $10-15 dollars, even less for used issued pouches. What makes Esstac and Tactical Tailor like $45-50 dollars per pouch? How are they better than milspec EI pouches?

Have you considered using the gear and finding out for yourself for your uses?


What kind of pouches are you talking about ? just mag pouches?



Well made and well designed gear costs about the same between decent manufacturers.


Esstac Kywis are my favorite for my belt reloads and have lasted a very long time of daily use, have good retention when you need it but fast to use, good attachment options etc...  Worth $30 to me

@NachoMan
@Esstac-
@-Esstac
@Ess-tac
@NachoCheeseWiz

It sounds like you’re buying Eagle issued pouches - whether new or used on the secondary market. Look at same or similar pouches from Eagle’s site and compare prices that way.

Surplus is generally good bang for your buck if you find something that fits your needs. I strongly encourage buying surplus.

However, it is not fair to judge surplus against new commercially available items. A double ammo pouch from Eagle runs about 30/35$ if bought commercially (they are not made anymore), in line with other offerings, this applies to many other items.

The government pays a little more than 14$ for a Eagle double mag pouch. In 2010 they were paying 8.90 for an Alice  mag pouch.

What Joe said.  This is just massive ignorance.  You're buying surplus pouches that .gov already paid for, and then bitching about the guy trying to make them on a much smaller scale and turn a profit.  

And throwing Esstac, and TT in with VelSys is another massive mis-statement.  The mark-ups between them are totally different.  

And the irony.  Eagle used to be the top dog, and now they're reduced to being gov't surplus.

And there it is, the typical american consumer.  I want first world products but I want to pay 3d world prices.  

@NachoDip

Do you have a machine and can you sew?  Some do, some pay.

If it lasts a lifetime, it is worth the money.

@FlamingDragon have you tried the EE?   I’ve got a tote worth of Esstac from the EE & bet my final cost is close to 60% of retail.

I started typing a long response to this then realized it doesn't matter. Here's the short version.

You're comparing a large company that makes massive quantities that are ordered by the military in bulk crates to a smaller manufacturer that makes a relatively different product that is all hand made by great people sitting in front of a sewing machine. I'm not exaggerating. Its a room full of sewing machines operated by great people that are making pouches and plate carriers, belts etc. If Stu limited his product line down to a half dozen things in two or three colors he could probably lower some costs. But he'd also be eliminating a notable portion of his customer base.

As to why... Two things. Retention and options.
The pouches are unique in how the grip the magazine. They use a kydex insert to grip the magazine, a kydex insert that is also adjustable for grip/retention. Every different brand has their thing. Esstac Pouches don't have elastic (except the shotgun cards to hold the shells in place), they use stiffeners in some items sewn into the pouches. The Esstac items are generally designed as fast deployment, grip it and rip it out and in the gun it goes. There is a large number of options as well. Want shotgun shells on the front of your pouch? no big deal. Wand pistol pouches on the front of your rifle mag pouch, no problem.


As an extra note:

I'll be damned if I haven't ever been welcomed in there since nearly the beginning. I met Stu when he was sitting in his garage leaning over a sewing machine making a new style pouch, while simultaneously heating and bending kydex to make a new custom attachment method. He handed me a bag of pouches to go try out as demo items. He asked me to beat the hell out of his demos, and find the failure points. All of the things he's made has been based of that concept. Find the failure and eliminate it. Find a way to save weight without removing comfort or useablilty. Over the years the gear has IMPROVED. Weight went down, quality went UP. Did I mention I am an expert in manufacturing operations? Yeah. May have forgotten that part up front.

Funny Fact. I don't work there. I gain nothing from my posts or info. (This statement is here in case styker or someone else (MOD or STAFF) is wondering why I am not an industry account).


Do me a favor and post up a link to a Eagle Ind Kryptek or MC black/Alpine magazine pouch or bando or dump pouch. Or maybe something in a non standard color Bright RED?. Send me a link to ANYONE making radio pouches custom made to YOUR radio. Currently also looking at GPS units right now to actually make GPS pouches.


OP, best thing I can say. Is buy one and try it out. If you don't like it, Someone here will likely buy it from you relatively quickly.

Asstac is good stuff. Their KYWI mag carriers are the gold standard IMHO.

Supply and demand + "I want the best" = The price model

All of them  mwahahahahaha.

I've never thought Esstac pouches were expensive. I even have a few HSGI pouches, and I never thought they were expensive, either. But even if they were, I don't mind paying for quality, American-made products.

Just because something is Milspec, doesn’t make it top tier, regardless of manufacturer. They build to a “spec” to meet a particular contract need. A lot are made in US Territories or Gov subsidized  facilities where labor cost are less.  

I’ve been issued many “spec”  items, I usually come out of pocket for better gear from the likes of Esstac, and most of my guys usually do as well. Invest in what works for you and your needs. If surplus items work for you, then go with them.

In the past 9 months, I sewed my own PLCE and pack.  I can now say first hand how much labor goes into this stuff.  It is time consuming. Even for someone who really knows what they are doing.

When I was in the Navy I was a little shocked to find out our magazines were made by the blind.

Right on dude, my favorite pouches made by: Arkansas Industries for the Blind.

*Like button

Yeah I would agree with that sentiment.  I think KYWI's are probably the gold standard at this point.  Shit-canning the bottom and running just the insert was genius on his part.  Now you have all these boutique brands basically copying the same idea, only with laminates and elastic, but it's essentially the same design.  And I don't think anybody has a greater variety of camo patterns.  

Bunching all three of these together is like apples, oranges, and KIWI fruit.

Ok.  So this is somewhat complicated, but also simple.

If you want quality, American made gear using American made (or equivalent) materials, it simply costs alot.  No joke.  

I make gear to sell.  I'm not big, I'm not the best, but I make a decent product.  The cost of materials on an item is alot.  Those $10 Eagle mag pouches you bought surplus?  I don't think I can buy the MATERIALS I'd need to make one of those for $10.  Much less labor.  Profit for the business.  Shipping and handling.  

Let's look at an example.  My most popular item I make is a USGI style buttpack, but updated with MOLLE attachment instead of ALICE, molle grid panels on the side, etc.  My materials cost is something right around $40, depending on the color / camo used.  I sell them for $80.  'Oh boy, you are marking that up alot!  And that's expensive for something like that!'  -  except that if I'm making them one at a time, I put about 7 hours of work into them.  If I do a serial run of 10 or so, I can cut that back to 5 hours.  

I'm making $8 / hour.  This doesn't factor in other things such as marketing, etc.  Or design and prototyping - which is EXTREMELY time consuming.  For each new design I put out, I've probably made at least a half dozen prototypes that I had to tweak, and none of those get paid for.  So I have to make up the cost of that.  Same with the hours of drafting patterns.  

Now, these bigger manufacturers have more automation, specialized labor, etc.  And the more you make, the cheaper you can make them.  They can significantly cut down on labor, and probably cut 20% off the cost of materials.  But you can start to see how the cost of pouches are so high.  

These chinese pouches you see - and some of them are decently made, surprisingly.  However, most of them cut serious corners with design and actual construction.  And they almost always use subpar materials.  For instance, almost every chinese made piece of tactical gear - even the ones that are well-made - use cheap, non-bonded generic thread.  Even if they get the actual stitching done right, the thread itself is almost always the failure point on these cheaper pouches.

You can get really good deals on the surplus market - those Eagle pouches are an outstanding deal at the moment.  They do a good job making them, and they are stupid cheap for what you get.  I make gear, but even I have some of those eagle mag pouches.  (In fact, you can make a pretty decent DIY 'recce' style chest rig for super cheap if you decided to sew one up for yourself, using those mag pouches.)

But then you are stuck using just what's available on the surplus market.  Not that there's anything wrong with that!  The best deal in the gear world right now are those 'complete FLC rifleman's kit' sets.  The one with the FLC, like 20 pouches, and an assault pack.  For $70.  It's not the best, but it won't just fall apart on you and you can fully equip a dude with that.  If I remember right, the government paid over $400 for that full set.  

If you want to go with something nicer, it's going to cost you.  And sometimes it's worth it.  I use ESSTAC Kwyi pouches - they just work.  Sure, I can probably fab up some for myself, but I like supporting other good gear companies.  I believe we should all be working together, there's more than enough room for it in this country and god only knows, we need the industry and skilled labor pool maintained that all the gear companies represent.  (I bet the tactical gear sewing companies have more skilled sewing labor than all the other sewing jobs in the US combined.......)

There's other good companies out there I use.  Crossfire and Hill People Gear packs.  Sure I can do my own pack - and eventually I am going to try for the lolz - but they have it dialed in already.  I've got gear from dozens of manufacturers.  I've even got some russian and chinese stuff for various reasons.  

Don't spend a ton of money on gear.  Seriously.  There is far more important stuff to put your money into.  Start with something simple and budget (but not crap quality) then figure out what you NEED and put some real money towards getting you exactly what you need.  Buy once, cry once.  

I recommend piecing together a cheap, basic set of surplus gear that will get you by in an EXTENDED EMERGENCY as your first set of gear.  (After a solid CCW setup and a basic set of backpacking / sustainment gear.  This is more important than anything else.)  Get a simple budget chest rig - even those $20 chicom chest rigs that you mod yourself to fit AR mags is solid gear if that's all you have.  Or one of those FLC sets.  Or a set of British surplus PLCE belt kit.  But don't put a ton of money into this cheap set.  Aim to spend $100-150 max on this.  You CAN do this cheaper if you are careful.  Your goal is to carry 4-6 rifle magazines, 2 quarts of water in BOTTLES (you are on a budget, remember?  1 quart gatoraide bottles work great as cheap 'canteens'), and enough food to get you through a day.  This is the minimum you want to aim for.  You can do this on the cheap with a Chicom chest rig and some kind of small 'assault pack' that carries your water and such.  Even if it's crap ACU camo, you can dye it or rattle can it to make it green or whatever.  

Once you have a basic setup, get some training, figure out exactly what you need and want.  This stuff varies greatly on where you are and what you will be doing with it, and the more you use it, the more you will realize exactly what you need.  Then carefully spend money on a QUALITY set of gear that is going to last you a long time.  It isn't cheap.  But this nicer gear IS used for a reason.  (and it doesn't need to be expensive either, if you are careful)  And once you get that nice set of gear and get it dialed in - give your old, budget surplus set of gear to another new guy just getting into this stuff.  Help him get started out and on his feet.  Even if it's just a $20 chicom chest rig, it's better than nothing.  

However.  We all know how this ends.  You end up a gear whore and have a few storage tubs of random gear sitting around in your garage.  Welcome to the club.

The cheap gear ALWAYS ends up in the parts bin or sold at a loss...or broken.  I'd say save for high quality out of the gate.

Not everyone can afford $1,000 worth of gear up front.  

And the broken, etc. stuff is why I said to buy a surplus setup.  At least they won't just fall apart.  

Even a $20 chicom rig is better than no rig while saving up that money for that higher end stuff.

And they don't need to go into the parts bin - gift it to a new shooter.  Which we should all be mentoring up.

El pouches?   Wasn't that Don Quixote's sidekick?

What others said.  You get what you pay for.  I use Tac Tailor, Blue Force Gear, and Esstac for mag and other pouches, and they are better than the surplus pouches that would fill the same role.

I do use certain surplus items in certain roles, because they work well for what I'm using them for.  There IS good stuff out there.  But you pay more for top of the line, and it IS worth it if your budget alllows.

The good stuff may be higher priced, but it's not necessarily over-priced.

Scour the EE, there are deals to be had.

Just wait until you try to buy combat pants...

This is what a lot of people seem to forget. Also, add in that larger manufacturers can get a discount on their materials since they buy in huge quantities. So they might buy several thousand yards of a certain fabric, but someone like you probably doesn't have enough space to store that much of one type, let alone several types in several styles, colors, or patters. Plus they have a team of people working on them pumping out hundreds or thousands of units a day. Whereas someone like yourself can do a few a day if you're working by yourself.

But I'll give my money to the 1-man operation for several reasons:
Made in America
Good quality
They stand behind their product

And if it takes a bit longer to get made and sent to me, that's OK. I'm willing to wait for quality and pay more for it.

Yuuuuuup.  Go price out a pair of Crye pants.  

Then look at the price of a pair of Propper brand, imported BDU pants, the ones made to actual BDU specs out of American material.

Yup.  Pros and cons to everything.  The gear world is full of pros and cons.