What is after the AR15? American Made?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What is after the AR15? American Made?

Posted: 7/26/2018 7:24:47 PM EDT

Yes, I know the AR15 will be around for some years. What is to come at least from what information some of you have found for the American market.

Posted: 7/26/2018 7:32:07 PM EDT

[#1]

The next logical step would be some scar-like platform. The AR platform is about as good as it gets though.

Posted: 7/26/2018 8:32:10 PM EDT

[#2]

I'd like to see something made in the USA in the PDW/Bullpup sized format to compete with the IWI Tavor X95 to bring the cost down....possibly on a Mini14 or AR180 platform

Posted: 7/26/2018 9:13:46 PM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:
I'd like to see something made in the USA in the PDW/Bullpup sized format to compete with the IWI Tavor X95 to bring the cost down....possibly on a Mini14 or AR180 platform

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Desert Tech MDR

Posted: 7/26/2018 9:20:18 PM EDT

[#4]

Whatever the US military adopts next will most likely be the next big thing. No way to tell what that might be.

Posted: 7/26/2018 9:27:48 PM EDT

[#5]

Edit.

Posted: 7/26/2018 11:33:05 PM EDT

[#6]

Unless the Army goes full retard and decides to actually adopt these new NGSAR weapons that are supposed to be using polymer ammunition with a 100,000psi chamber pressure firing a 130gr 6.8 projectile.

Posted: 7/27/2018 12:07:43 AM EDT

[#7]

I'm not sure what the rifle would be... but I hope some form of the 6.5 caliber is considered for ammo...

It seems like a lot of US Mil. firearms are developed around the cartridge requirements /needs...

and a Bull pup would have all sorts of practicality...

Posted: 7/27/2018 11:22:31 AM EDT

[#8]

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Quoted:
I'd like to see something made in the USA in the PDW/Bullpup sized format to compete with the IWI Tavor X95 to bring the cost down....possibly on a Mini14 or AR180 platform

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Already exists. Keltec RDB.

Posted: 7/27/2018 10:21:14 PM EDT

[#9]

SCAR in 6.5 Creedmoor, that would please lots of fan boys.

Posted: 8/25/2018 9:43:32 PM EDT

[#10]

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Quoted:
The next logical step would be some scar-like platform

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There already is one, the Robinson XCR. I have an XCR-L and a SCAR-S and IMO the XCR - at least the recent generations - is a much better rifle. The SCAR was probably better at the time it won the SCAR competition, but it has stagnated while the XCR has improved dramatically. Mine is an older model that has gotten most of the updates. Pity the XCR never took off but the owner really shot his foot off with his infamous letter.

Posted: 8/25/2018 11:16:37 PM EDT

[#11]

Probably something in the 6-6.5MM range. Started out along time ago but technology hadn't caught up with the round yet

Shoves a 70 grain bullet out at over 3000 fps. This was around the turn of the century.

Posted: 8/31/2018 1:02:41 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
I'd like to see something made in the USA in the PDW/Bullpup sized format to compete with the IWI Tavor X95 to bring the cost down....possibly on a Mini14 or AR180 platform

View Quote

Armalite tried to revive the 180 with the 180-B. It didn’t have the folding stock, but it did take unmodified AR magazines. It only lasted for a few years before it was dropped........again.

Posted: 8/31/2018 2:40:20 PM EDT

[#13]

Eh, major conflict has always driven the firearms industry. WWII -> M1 Garand. Vietnam -> M16. With no current major conflict, innovation has gotten stagnant. Only time will tell what will succeed the AR15, but given that most companies are trying out new piston models, I'd wager that it's going to be a piston gun of some sort with a side folding stock.

Posted: 9/1/2018 10:02:52 AM EDT

[#14]

I think it's going to be the Sig MCX. It's got lots of high-visibility contracts with governments across the globe, and there are good guys doing bad things to bad guys with them.

It has the ability to use lots of AR-compatible parts, so you're not waiting for weeks to get a safety repaired or pivot pin replaced.

It has the modularity that the firearms market has been looking for, and it hasn't been an abortion like the ACR.

I'm not going to sell any of my quality ARs to buy another (I have one on a Form 1 and one pistol built on a Rattler kit), but I would like to add a Virtus to the stable.

Posted: 9/1/2018 10:12:05 AM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
Eh, major conflict has always driven the firearms industry. WWII -> M1 Garand. Vietnam -> M16. With no current major conflict, innovation has gotten stagnant. Only time will tell what will succeed the AR15, but given that most companies are trying out new piston models, I'd wager that it's going to be a piston gun of some sort with a side folding stock.

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From a general overview of mechanics, physics, metallurgy, chemistry, human anatomy, manufacturing, and principles of economics, the 700 year old firearms industry is quite mature. That said, when SkyNet becomes self aware, the phased plasma rifle in the 40 megawatt range will get pretty popular.

MHO, YMMV, etc.

Posted: 9/1/2018 10:21:00 AM EDT

[#16]

The AR is simply too entrenched to go anywhere for decades. It's our current Winchester 18xx/Mauser receiver platform and every kid and new shooter still views it as the ultimate rifle on which to base a collection. It will continue to be product improved...Today's rails that don't require torguing/timing the old style barrel nut and gas tube are an example of how the AR is becoming more user friendly each year (not that installing a barrel is difficult in the first place, but now it's really easy to throw in a barrel and FF rail).

This doesn't answer your question, but the American market will want more 90s-era guns as people start to get bored with their ARs and as competition and access to information squeezes out all but the best in the AR market. For example, look at the hype surrounding PSA's upcoming MP5, which is a nice platform but definitely old tech.

Posted: 9/1/2018 6:03:51 PM EDT

[#17]

Probably a chassis based modular rifle that can share their existing parts inventory.

Posted: 9/3/2018 11:36:28 AM EDT

[#18]

What can any of these SCAR- XCR do better than a ar-15 to a degree that change is beneficial? I don’t think much of anything.
A 6.5 Grendel might be worth it but the basic rifle design is pretty much peaked.

Posted: 9/3/2018 3:27:02 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
What can any of these SCAR- XCR do better than a ar-15 to a degree that change is beneficial? I don’t think much of anything.
A 6.5 Grendel might be worth it but the basic rifle design is pretty much peaked.

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Yeah, a 12.5" 6.5 Grendel pistol with Geissele rail and trigger and a low power variable optic doesn't leave much room for improvement.

Posted: 9/7/2018 11:36:59 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
Yeah, a 12.5" 6.5 Grendel pistol with Geissele rail and trigger and a low power variable optic doesn't leave much room for improvement.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
What can any of these SCAR- XCR do better than a ar-15 to a degree that change is beneficial? I don’t think much of anything.
A 6.5 Grendel might be worth it but the basic rifle design is pretty much peaked.

Yeah, a 12.5" 6.5 Grendel pistol with Geissele rail and trigger and a low power variable optic doesn't leave much room for improvement.

Pretty much

Posted: 9/22/2018 9:51:30 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
Whatever the US military adopts next will most likely be the next big thing. No way to tell what that might be.

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Agreed, and we should know in about 30 years.

Posted: 9/22/2018 9:57:45 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
I think it's going to be the Sig MCX. It's got lots of high-visibility contracts with governments across the globe, and there are good guys doing bad things to bad guys with them.

It has the ability to use lots of AR-compatible parts, so you're not waiting for weeks to get a safety repaired or pivot pin replaced.

It has the modularity that the firearms market has been looking for, and it hasn't been an abortion like the ACR.

I'm not going to sell any of my quality ARs to buy another (I have one on a Form 1 and one pistol built on a Rattler kit), but I would like to add a Virtus to the stable.

View Quote

When I read the OPs question the first gun that came to mind was the MCX. However, after having owned A LOT of SIG NH rifles (several copies of each: Sig556, Sig556 Classic, Sig556 Patrol, Sig556 XI, Sig MCX) I don't believe their QC and materials selection is up to the challenge of being America's next rifle. If they would license the manufacture to BCM, Colt, or Daniel Defense ... and allow the awarded contractor to conduct a design review and revision process (like upgrading the upper receiver to 7075-T6) ... the design could really take off.

Short of this happening, it is just going to be another (albeit better executed) ACR style abortion.

ETA: Where is the Sig556 series now ... and how did it compare the SIG SAN 550 series? I've had over a dozen different SIG NH rifles and they just seem "hobby grade" to me. I'd love to see the MCX get the attention it needs to be a great rifle, but I don't see Sig being the company that can pull that off.

Posted: 9/23/2018 12:01:25 AM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:

When I read the OPs question the first gun that came to mind was the MCX. However, after having owned A LOT of SIG NH rifles (several copies of each: Sig556, Sig556 Classic, Sig556 Patrol, Sig556 XI, Sig MCX) I don't believe their QC and materials selection is up to the challenge of being America's next rifle. If they would license the manufacture to BCM, Colt, or Daniel Defense ... and allow the awarded contractor to conduct a design review and revision process (like upgrading the upper receiver to 7075-T6) ... the design could really take off.

Short of this happening, it is just going to be another (albeit better executed) ACR style abortion.

ETA: Where is the Sig556 series now ... and how did it compare the SIG SAN 550 series? I've had over a dozen different SIG NH rifles and they just seem "hobby grade" to me. I'd love to see the MCX get the attention it needs to be a great rifle, but I don't see Sig being the company that can pull that off.

View Quote

There certainly are enough units using the MCX out there to get around the "QC issues" that Sig may or may not have. I'm guessing that the military and LE guns probably go through a different QC process or through a different line. The Rattler has a 7075 upper, I believe. I recall reading that in the Sig forum, somewhere. In any case, all of the wear areas are steel, and are user replaceable. Plus, 6061 is more corrosion resistant. It likely doesn't matter for you and I, in any case.