I got out of high power rocketry 15 years ago or so and ended up with 4 lbs. of 4F black powder,  we used it for our separation charges.  

Thought of getting a black powder pistol if I came across one.

Yea or nay ?

4F is for priming flint lock pans not the main charge. You can use 2F or 3F for pistols and revolvers (IF you can find any!).

This, priming the pan in flint locks, too fine, too fast for the ball charge.

You can use 4Fg in a steel framed C&B revolver. It will bend the Arbor in a brass framed Colt.
Also the Ruger Old Army Revolver was designed to use all grades of powder.

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Before lawyers got involved with everything, 4F was commonly used with C&B revolvers. The 1975 - 1st Edition of the Black Powder Handbook has a whole section on 4F powder charges for revolvers:

https://www.amazon.com/Powder-Handbook-Kenneth-Ramage-editor/dp/0912412070

4F is the recommended powder for .22 mini black powder revolvers.

Some research on vintage paper cartridges shows that cartridges loaded for Colt used 4F powder.  Hazard Powder was also faster than modern Goex black powder. Metallurgy in modern replica guns is also superior to that used in vintage guns.  I wouldn't fret about it too much.

I knew to stay away from the brass frame revolvers and was planning on a steel frame with a top strap.
All the info I keep finding goes both ways. Yes it's ok, no it's not.

Even if I get lucky and find a steel frame revolver it's not like I am going to shoot it a lot.

Thanks for the comments and  info. Off to do some more research.

There is a significant amount of irrational fear in the BP community. It has been passed down from older generations.
Some folks want to simplify BP into a tight little box. They like to state that their way of doing something is the LAW / only way of doing something. Take it with a grain of salt and do your own research.

There is big world of knowledge out there surrounding black powder. It's the foundation that our current firearms and ammunition is based on.  



Most new BP shooters start with a steel frame Pietta or Uberti 44 cal 1858 Remington New Model Army revolver with top strap. It's what we are used to for revolvers. I did exactly that myself.

However, I find the steel frame open top Pietta Colt revolvers are far more enjoyable to shoot. Their actions out of the box are way smoother than the Remington action. The large arbor (aka cylinder pin) on the modern Colt replicas (Pietta / Uberti) create a strong platform. The rear sight on the hammer is not an issue I always thought it was. It's just different than what modern revolvers have.

If I were to use 4F in my steel frame revolvers, would you recommend downloading the charge and if so by how much? Say I use 20-23 grains of 3F in .44 with round ball should I go down to maybe 15-18 grains of 4F? I want to be careful of this because I don't want to hurt my guns or myself or anyone else.

Here's some generalizations...
"Best accuracy and consistency is usually obtained with lighter powder charges of 3F (15gr or less) and a filler (Cream of Wheat, etc) between the ball and powder."

"Too light a charge of powder and the ball wont exit the barrel. Too heavy a charge or BP and you find yourself with unburnt powder blowing out the end of the barrel."

"Higher velocity doesn't necessarily = better accuracy in BP."



If you want start low and work your way up, go for it.


I'd use the same charges. You're not going to hurt anything with black powder in a modern steel frame replica. Without a Chronograph you really wont notice much difference.

I have shot chamber full loads of 3f & 4F in my steel frame Pietta 1851 36 Navy and steel frame Pietta 1860 Army Revolvers. Ramming the ball on a chamber full load of powder caused the ball to be deformed. Recoil was pretty much the same as shooting 30gr of 3F in a 44 or 20gr of 3F in a 36.

The book I mentioned above went to 28gr of 4F in a 36 cal and 38gr of 4F in 44 cal revolvers to prevent ball deformation.

Some additional reading:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/well-guys-i-worked-up-a-load-using-4f-goex-in-my-1851-navy-36-caliber.840034/

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/tried-some-goex-4f-in-my-steel-frame-36-cal-pietta-1851-navy.842863/


I wouldn't shoot 4Fg in an original, brass frame, or questionable replica.

Thanks drobs, I will do some load development as soon as my order comes in. I was able to order some 4F as well as 1.5F and OB from Powder Valley today. I will save the OB for a different project I want to do and that will only be for priming a flintlock pan. I'm planning on using the 1.5F for my .58 cal Hawken cap lock and I do expect lower velocity but that's OK as long as I get accuracy. I am new to real BP as I was only ever able to get Pyrodex in the past but I have found that BP seems to light faster and more reliably when I tried 3F in my .50 cal Kentucky build cap lock.

You could mix all three powders together and shoot it. You could put 10 grains of 4F in the bottom of the chamber and then put another 20grs of 1.5F on top of it. Call it a Duplex load. You're not going to hurt anything.

It's just a matter of how slow or fast do you want to shoot.


I bought 10 pounds of Aliant Black MZ substitute BP a couple years ago for $9 a pound. It has no Fg granulation. Reading around the web, it likes to be compressed. I found it doesn't measure well out of my 2 powder flasks. I'll keep using it till it's gone.

My preference is Graf's Scheutzen 3Fg BP. I shot this group with it a few years ago, standing, 2 hands at 21 ft. Group was shot with 30gr of powder, felt wad, Bore Butter, and a .454 diameter Hornady ball.

I find lube under the ball, over the wad, puts the lube where I want it - down the barrel instead of all over my hands / the outside of the gun.

It's not a hard and fast rule though.

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That's a respectable group. I hope to do half as good with my 1860. I have never used wads before but I think I might try them out. I always greased after seating the ball but it is a mess and I'm more than willing to try something different.

It might be dated but got off work early and stopped at a used book store and picked up a copy of Lyman's Black Powder  Handbook. Copyright 1975.

It's in pretty good condition for a 45 year old book.

Just add it to my  reloading book collection.

I also snagged one from Amazon. It's as old as I am. In the newer edition the 4F section is completely gone.