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Link Posted: 8/24/2010 2:12:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: RDTCU] [#1]






Someone's gonna be very confused if they ever dig out one of these bullets



"looks like he was shot with a .40....no, wait... what the heck?"



 
missing
Link Posted: 8/24/2010 3:08:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: Wayward_Texan] [#2]
Originally Posted By jonblack:
Originally Posted By Wayward_Texan:
I would be very interested if this is a viable option for forming 10mm auto bullets...
Has anyone tried that?


Here's a secret: 10mm bullets are the same as .40 bullets. There is at least one person over there using these in 10mm.

jonblack


I do realize they are the same diameter
I was more curious how they hold up the the increased chamber pressures.... mind you I like the old Norma full-power loads
More specifically... would the increased chamber pressure blow the primer into the lead causing an imbalance and funky ballistics...
Link Posted: 8/24/2010 3:43:23 PM EST
[#3]
Hi Jon.   Please pass this info on to the maker of this kit.

I used to shoot a LOT of jacketed bullets in USPSA (ipsc) - about 15K per year.  All reloaded.  Calibers I loaded were 9mm, 40 and 45.

Almost all of it was jacketed hollow point, for competition.  JHPs tent to be slightly more accurate.

Here are the most popular bullet weights; if he can make kits for these, he will sell to the USPSA/IPSC crowd:

9mm "minor"  147 grn JHP (135 grn close second).

9mm "major"  124 grn JHP

40  180 grn or 200 grn JHP

45  230 FMJ or JHP or possibly 200 grn

Thanks!
Link Posted: 8/24/2010 4:20:37 PM EST
[#4]
Link Posted: 8/24/2010 5:10:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: res45] [#5]
Link Posted: 8/24/2010 8:44:36 PM EST
[#6]
Maybe this explains all those cop shows, wherein the X-ray of a shooting victim reveals what appears to be a live round.
Link Posted: 8/24/2010 8:48:51 PM EST
[#7]
Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL:
Can you imagine the chaos these would cause if used in a crime?  CSI would go into a full tailspin with these bullets.


I was thinking the same thing. they would see that and be all WTF. How do you fire a bullet and the case be intact, this must be some new type of cop/baby killing bullets. It's a missile bullet. OMG WE'VE GOTTA FIND OUT HOW THESE ARE MADE!!!
Link Posted: 8/24/2010 8:59:20 PM EST
[#8]
a 9mm is finally useful for something... lol

sorry, someone had to say it....
Link Posted: 8/24/2010 9:05:57 PM EST
[#9]
Originally Posted By Otterstedt:
Maybe this explains all those cop shows, wherein the X-ray of a shooting victim reveals what appears to be a live round.


Don't tell me you watch CSI. I can't stand it when they do that.

This casting with casings and lead is wicked cool. Wish I had the $ for a set to cast for .45.
Link Posted: 8/24/2010 9:21:18 PM EST
[#10]
I agree that this is totaly awesome. If I had the time and cash to do so I would easily.
Link Posted: 8/24/2010 9:21:50 PM EST
[#11]
Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Originally Posted By Otterstedt:
Maybe this explains all those cop shows, wherein the X-ray of a shooting victim reveals what appears to be a live round.


Don't tell me you watch CSI. I can't stand it when they do that.

This casting with casings and lead is wicked cool. Wish I had the $ for a set to cast for .45.


Never seen it, but I have noticed the same thing on other shows. Also, the 25mm automatic apparently is a common firearm in NYC, at least according to several episodes of Law & Order.
Link Posted: 8/25/2010 1:07:39 AM EST
[#12]
Tag!  
Link Posted: 8/25/2010 6:14:48 AM EST
[#13]
SUBsribed
Link Posted: 8/25/2010 6:46:14 AM EST
[#14]
Originally Posted By wareagle30:
I seriously need to learn how to do this stuff...



+1
Link Posted: 8/25/2010 10:13:34 AM EST
[#15]
Originally Posted By jonblack:
Originally Posted By Sharpest:
Do you have a link handy? I am extremely interested in the .40 brass into .45 projectiles swager.


Yes, here is the link. Unfortunately it is much more expensive than making 40 from 9. There is more equipment involved and I am sure more labor.

jonblack


Damn, I am crazy about the idea but the price point ruins it for me...for now.
Link Posted: 8/25/2010 10:31:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: GWhis] [#16]
Originally Posted By Wayward_Texan:
a 9mm is finally useful for something... lol

sorry, someone had to say it....


Me did!  End of page one.....what surprised me is......no reactions....nada!  Good of you to bring it up again.

This is a really great idea though....these days one would be dumb to pass it up.  I'm going to have to join "cast boolits"  and ask the guru about the possibilies of lead wire....seems it would be faster...if it works at all.
Link Posted: 8/25/2010 11:33:06 AM EST
[#17]
VERY COOL!

I would like to buy some of these slugs.  Not the whole finished round, just the slug.  Please IM me if you're interested in selling me a few.
Link Posted: 8/25/2010 12:14:40 PM EST
[#18]
Originally Posted By jonblack:
Originally Posted By ontheback:
Would they swage out far enough for .45 bullets?


No, but BT Sniper just made a set to make .45 bullets from .40 S&W cases.

jonblack


That's cool.

.40 brass is hard to give away!



Link Posted: 8/25/2010 12:23:57 PM EST
[#19]
Originally Posted By Muad_Dib:
VERY COOL!

I would like to buy some of these slugs.  Not the whole finished round, just the slug.  Please IM me if you're interested in selling me a few.


I'm not a Type 06 therefore I cannot sell these.

jonblack
Link Posted: 8/25/2010 12:28:49 PM EST
[#20]
Originally Posted By GWhis:
Originally Posted By Wayward_Texan:
a 9mm is finally useful for something... lol

sorry, someone had to say it....


Me did!  End of page one.....what surprised me is......no reactions....nada!  Good of you to bring it up again.

This is a really great idea though....these days one would be dumb to pass it up.  I'm going to have to join "cast boolits"  and ask the guru about the possibilies of lead wire....seems it would be faster...if it works at all.


Yeah GWhis said it first!

Hey Whis...for some reason I thought you were already casting bullets. Is that not the case? I'm just wondering why you are so interested in the idea of lead wire when casting the cores is easy and fairly inexpensive. You have to have a core cutter for the wire. Sure you could use a wire cutter but you need a good way to control the weight of the core.

Here is another thought. I read about guys using lead shot (shotgun) to fine tune the weight of the core. For example, if the brass was a little light and they needed a grain or two over what the core weight, they just add a couple grains of lead shot. I was wondering if you couldn't just use all lead shot and it fully compress when you swaged it.

jonblack
Link Posted: 8/25/2010 12:49:23 PM EST
[#21]
Originally Posted By jonblack:
Originally Posted By TheMountaineer:
That's awesome.  Would the bullets be safe in poly rifling?


They are jacketed. IIRC, the whole poly rifling thing revolves around lead buildup.

jonblack


I know leading is the problem but wasn't sure if brass would cause similar problem.  I don't figure it would, but better safe than sorry  If I ever start reloading pistol ammo, I'll definitely have to get these dies
Link Posted: 8/25/2010 1:04:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: NoHarmNoFAL] [#22]
After watching the videos on how to do this I am starting to think that it is a bit more work than it seems on the surface.

If I have it right you have to do the following steps.
Cast the core
Tumble/Polish the jacket/case
Trim the jacket/case
Anneal the jacket/case
place the core seating die in the press
seat the core in the jacket case
place the swaging die in the press
swage the jacket/case/core combo

To me it seems like it would take several hours to knock out a thousand rounds, heck it would take a few hours to cast a thousand cores.

Now I am as frugal as most reloaders but if I can get by with just shooting the cast core without having to go through all this i am going to.  I understand the whole purpose and I think it is really cool but it is going to be a ton of work and if you consider how much your time is worth per hour, this disregards the enjoyment of the hobby I know, it may just be worth it to buy the cheaper plated bullets.

The whole time I was watching the videos I kept thinking "If only there was a way to make this progressive..." and I think if it were progressive it would take a tremendous amount of force but that look like the only way this would be viable for me at this point.
Link Posted: 8/25/2010 1:26:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: jonblack] [#23]
Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL:
After watching the videos on how to do this I am starting to think that it is a bit more work than it seems on the surface.

If I have it right you have to do the following steps.
Cast the core - Yes
Tumble/Polish the jacket/case - Yes
Trim the jacket/case - I haven't read about anyone trimming cases
Anneal the jacket/case - Yes/No - annealing makes swaging easier, but you can swage without annealing. You can annealing 1,000 cases on your gas grill in the amount of time it takes to bring them to 700°
place the core seating die in the press - I bell the case mouth and drop the core in with my fingers
seat the core in the jacket case - Drops right in under gravity
place the swaging die in the press - Yes, but I leave mine mounted in my swaging press
swage the jacket/case/core combo - Yes takes a few seconds to pull the handle

To me it seems like it would take several hours to knock out a thousand rounds, heck it would take a few hours to cast a thousand cores. - With a LEE six banger you should be able to cast 1,000 cores in an hour.

<snip>


jonblack

Link Posted: 8/25/2010 1:29:45 PM EST
[#24]
Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL:
After watching the videos on how to do this I am starting to think that it is a bit more work than it seems on the surface.


Some calibers are certainly more work. The 40 from 9 is supposed to be the easiest to get into to.

jonblack
Link Posted: 8/25/2010 1:31:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: GWhis] [#25]
Originally Posted By jonblack:
Originally Posted By GWhis:
Originally Posted By Wayward_Texan:
a 9mm is finally useful for something... lol

sorry, someone had to say it....


Me did!  End of page one.....what surprised me is......no reactions....nada!  Good of you to bring it up again.

This is a really great idea though....these days one would be dumb to pass it up.  I'm going to have to join "cast boolits"  and ask the guru about the possibilies of lead wire....seems it would be faster...if it works at all.


Yeah GWhis said it first!

Hey Whis...for some reason I thought you were already casting bullets. Is that not the case? I'm just wondering why you are so interested in the idea of lead wire when casting the cores is easy and fairly inexpensive. You have to have a core cutter for the wire. Sure you could use a wire cutter but you need a good way to control the weight of the core.

Here is another thought. I read about guys using lead shot (shotgun) to fine tune the weight of the core. For example, if the brass was a little light and they needed a grain or two over what the core weight, they just add a couple grains of lead shot. I was wondering if you couldn't just use all lead shot and it fully compress when you swaged it.

jonblack


Naw never delved into that...yet.  In the last 40 years, the only lead I reloaded was for my Ruger .45 colt.  Back then it was so cheap to buy, that I never saw the need...my!... how things change.  When I retire in a year or two I'll have the time to try it out.  You probably thought I was into it because of two threads I started on gift acquisitions from a friend.  A big bar of Linotype, and his dad's shot maker.  Wanted to know more about them, and will use them health permiting, in the next few years.  Thanks to some of you guys, I know exactly where to get the info to start...and get good at it.

The wire idea may make more sense to you now that you know my casting experience.  I figured that buying a spool of wire, and a core cutter would be less expensive for me than buying all the casting stuff....that's coming...just not yet.  Consider how much time it takes to cut cores compared to casting.  If NoHarmNoFal has it right....at least the one step might be faster...of course, I'm guessing...having never done either.

Anyway...appreciate the great thread!





Link Posted: 8/25/2010 1:31:46 PM EST
[#26]
Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL:
Can you imagine the chaos these would cause if used in a crime?  CSI would go into a full tailspin with these bullets.


i was thinking the same thing lol
Link Posted: 8/25/2010 1:32:37 PM EST
[#27]
I guess the whole thing is kinda like hunting. By the time you factory in hunting license, gun, ammo, deer camp membership, gas, time, processing, etc it winds up costing $100 a pound for meat. You could have just gone to the grocer and bought steaks for $10 a pound. But, that doesn't stop everyone from hunting and eating the meat.

jonblack
Link Posted: 8/25/2010 1:35:25 PM EST
[#28]
Originally Posted By jonblack:
Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL:
After watching the videos on how to do this I am starting to think that it is a bit more work than it seems on the surface.

If I have it right you have to do the following steps.
Cast the core - Yes
Tumble/Polish the jacket/case - Yes
Trim the jacket/case - I haven't read about anyone trimming cases
Anneal the jacket/case - Yes/No - annealing makes swaging easier, but you can swage without annealing. You can annealing 1,000 cases on your gas grill in the amount of time it takes to bring them to 700°
place the core seating die in the press - I bell the case mouth and drop the core in with my fingers
seat the core in the jacket case - Drops right in under gravity
place the swaging die in the press - Yes, but I leave mine mounted in my swaging press
swage the jacket/case/core combo - Yes takes a few seconds to pull the handle

To me it seems like it would take several hours to knock out a thousand rounds, heck it would take a few hours to cast a thousand cores. - With a LEE six banger you should be able to cast 1,000 cores in an hour.

<snip>


jonblack



I was just basing the steps off the linked videos that showed the steps.  When I cast I do use a Lee 6 cavity mold and yes you can knock out a thousand pretty quickly but if you can to 6 bullets in 30 seconds it still takes about an hour and a half to do 1000 and that is some hard and fast casting with nothing going a bit off.

From the video the man said that seating the core is what expanded the case to .400 which is why I included that step.

Have you ever measured how long each step takes you?  I would be very interested in see just how long this would take from start to finish.  I am fascinated by these kinds of process and the ingenuity involved.

My other major hang up is that I shoot 9mm and I would hate to waste all those 9mm cases.
Link Posted: 8/25/2010 1:39:29 PM EST
[#29]
jonblack

I have a Forster Coax single stage press.



It does not use shell holders but this sliding arrangement to grip the brass. You can swap ends between small and large "grippers."


I'm thinking this might be a problem with the BT Sniper kit.

Your thoughts?

Link Posted: 8/25/2010 2:06:53 PM EST
[#30]
I just got the die last week. I honestly don't know how long it would take cumulatively to make 1,000 projectiles start to finish.

jonblack
Link Posted: 8/25/2010 2:09:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: jonblack] [#31]
Originally Posted By callgood:
jonblack

I have a Forster Coax single stage press.


I am not sure if your press will work. The shell holder does not hold the brass. The shell holder holds a punch, which pushes the brass up into the swage die body. The alignment of the punch and the die body is pretty critical. The tolerances are tight. Any slop and things don't line up right.

jonblack
Link Posted: 8/25/2010 2:49:16 PM EST
[#32]
Originally Posted By jonblack:
Originally Posted By callgood:
jonblack

I have a Forster Coax single stage press.


I am not sure if your press will work. The shell holder does not hold the brass. The shell holder holds a punch, which pushes the brass up into the swage die body. The alignment of the punch and the die body is pretty critical. The tolerances are tight. Any slop and things don't line up right.

jonblack


That was my understanding, based on the illustrations. I'll have to research which single stage presses would be suitable and see if I can pick one up used.

Thanks!

Link Posted: 8/26/2010 4:12:37 PM EST
[#33]
What is the finished weight of the 40 JHPs?
Link Posted: 8/26/2010 8:49:36 PM EST
[#34]
Originally Posted By CBR900:
What is the finished weight of the 40 JHPs?


It depends on your alloy.

I stated earlier in the thread that WW allow makes the projectile 185gr and pure lead makes is 190gr. Those are give or take figures.

jonblack
Link Posted: 8/26/2010 9:00:42 PM EST
[#35]
Those bullets remind me of that Gene Simmons movie Runaway where had had the gyrojet gun that fired bullets that would track their targets.    
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:15:29 PM EST
[#36]
It would deffinately require trimming, but this could be a perfect use for the metric shitload of otherwise useless 7.62x25 berdan brass we all have laying around. As long as it isnt the polish crap where every other case cracks. Just a thought.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:38:37 AM EST
[#37]
That is neat.
Link Posted: 10/8/2010 1:11:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: BT_Sniper] [#38]
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/40buldge028.jpg

Thought I might bring this thread back to life. Been shooting the 40 cal bullet made from 9mm brass for a while now and getting some pretty good results. Certainly is rewarding, cheap, and not at all dificult. For somone with a bit of time and enjoys the DIY of shooting this will certainly elevate the enjoyment of reloading to the next level.

Good shooting and Swage On!

BT

Link Posted: 10/8/2010 1:44:00 AM EST
[#39]
Originally Posted By BT_Sniper:
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/40buldge028.jpg

Thought I might bring this thread back to life. Been shooting the 40 cal bullet made from 9mm brass for a while now and getting some pretty good results. Certainly is rewarding, cheap, and not at all dificult. For somone with a bit of time and enjoys the DIY of shooting this will certainly elevate the enjoyment of reloading to the next level.

Just joined up on the sight. Yes it was me in the video and most of my work in all the pics. It was a bit humorous reading some of the replies but maybe in time I may be able to show you guys just how easy it is to make your own bullets.

Till then I say good shooting and Swage On!

BT



Dang you guys are killing me.  In the last 6 months I have collected 3 sets of molds, a turkey fryer, cast iron skillet, numerous trays for pan lubing, have several buckets of WWs in the garage, a 4/20 Lee and I have been considering building a dedicated bench for casting on casters.  

My wife is going to have my ass if I get any deeper into this.  Gonna have me sneaking around in the garage.



Link Posted: 10/8/2010 8:25:28 AM EST
[#40]
Originally Posted By coconut1:

Dang you guys are killing me.  In the last 6 months I have collected 3 sets of molds, a turkey fryer, cast iron skillet, numerous trays for pan lubing, have several buckets of WWs in the garage, a 4/20 Lee and I have been considering building a dedicated bench for casting on casters.  

My wife is going to have my ass if I get any deeper into this.  Gonna have me sneaking around in the garage.



Sounds exactly like me except that my swaging dies should be here in a couple weeks.

Link Posted: 10/8/2010 8:28:27 AM EST
[#41]
Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL:
Can you imagine the chaos these would cause if used in a crime?  CSI would go into a full tailspin with these bullets.


I can just see the detective picking up the bullet, looking at it and then his head exploding. Literally.
Link Posted: 10/8/2010 6:22:19 PM EST
[#42]
any range reports on these?  What does the weight come out to?
Link Posted: 10/9/2010 6:20:58 PM EST
[#43]
Originally Posted By Claybrook:
Not sure what the point is, but that's cool as hell.


The point is obvious every time someone steps up to try and ban various projectiles.

This is awesome, even cooler than using .22LR for jacketed .224 projos.
Link Posted: 10/10/2010 2:02:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: BT_Sniper] [#44]
Seems I find more and more friends and previous customers scattered about the internet. Couple of them here will be/are making there own bullets with these dies I offer.

The weight of these pictured did not shed a bit from origninal and actually weighted a couple grains more do to the wet newspaper stuck under the petals. I was impressed but will still be doing more testing when I can to see if I can get even better results. Going to try them a bit faster out of a carbine. I am not sure I can expect results like this all the time but at 950FPS from a 40 S&W I am at the top of the limits and I am pretty sure not much more weight will shed from future test bullets of this same weight. Though I expect I may be able to get even better results using softer lead cores for even more expansion. THis is the great thing about making your own bullets. You can try many different styles to see what works. This was my 4th hollow point design in attempts to get results like this. Think I am pretty happy and only thing I may try is actually filling the HP with a bit of plastic of some sort just like the Hornady critical defense bullet.

Yes I think the point has been made pretty clear to me. When the new government took office and bullets/everything reloading was in short supply I could still find plenty brass and lead and was very thankfull I could make more then I could possibly ever shoot.

I'll keep posting my progress.

Good shooting,

BT
Link Posted: 10/10/2010 2:06:46 AM EST
[#45]
Thought I might have mentioned it all ready but guess not. The weight of bullets pictured above started out at 185 grains. Recovered weight was actually a couple grains more because of extra newspaper trapped in petels. These hit wet newspaper @ 950 FPS.
Link Posted: 10/13/2010 10:48:03 AM EST
[#46]
I would be very interested in these if there was a simple and consistent way of making .40 S&W casings into 230 grain .45ACP bullets.

In other words, this is a tag.

David
Link Posted: 10/13/2010 11:05:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: AR4U] [#47]
Nevermind.
Link Posted: 10/13/2010 12:41:00 PM EST
[#48]
Tag, this is awesome
Link Posted: 10/13/2010 10:13:17 PM EST
[#49]
Well simple is a relitive term isn't it. I have found that anything is possible in the hobby and the challenge is what makes it rewarding for me. Granted  these bullets are no more difficult to make then reloading a case but can take a little time but thats what hobbies are for.

So here is a 250 grain 45 cal. from 40 S&W brass for you.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/45andcams013.jpg
175 grain core next to 40 S&W thencore seated and point formed. I was experimenting with XL hollow point. Can you imagine the expansion!



http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/45s002.jpg
Here is some 225 grain 45 cal bullets made from trimed 40 S&W next to 250 grain from untrimed case.



http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/45xtps004.jpg
Here a 45 250 grain XTP look-a-like

http://s636.photobucket.com/home/BTSniper/index
Here is a link to my photo bucket album pics. Shows all my latest projects.

Good shooting

BT
Link Posted: 10/13/2010 10:16:49 PM EST
[#50]
http://s636.photobucket.com/home/BTSniper/index

http://s636.photobucket.com/home/BTSniper/index

Lets see if one of these links work.

If not cut and paste :)

http://s636.photobucket.com/home/BTSniper/index

BT
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