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Page Armory » M-16
Posted: 5/13/2021 11:48:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/13/2021 11:54:14 AM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 5/16/2021 12:12:45 AM EDT
[#2]
Several people have been scammed by that outfit, and to my knowledge they don't have a functional product. Notice they don't have an actual picture, just renderings?
Link Posted: 5/16/2021 1:15:15 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Now, why this isn't a post sample devise itself is the question...
View Quote
IMHO it is, but I'm not the ATF and I don't "make a fuss" about things like that... um, because freedom.
I agree with @Glock63 that they may not actually exist. Haven't seen a real photo of one.

I made an inquiry on GunBroker to PacTac1 (which is Pacific Tactical Research Design & Development, LLC) https://www.ptrdd.com/ (360) 580-1164 and they replied that their trigger group, which is 4-position (burst also) with their custom selector, would function as 3-position (safe, semi, auto) with a standard M16 selector, but never confirmed having any in-stock and ready to ship.

As far as cost-effectiveness, it's better to just buy an "M16 cut" AR lower and drill the third hole.

This is (theoretically) kind of neat though, since you could swap it around, but are you going to put semi-auto parts in the (non-registered, Title I) lower while it's gone? If not, why bother?

I just leave several lowers setup with M16 FCGs, and swap a DIAS between them (which isn't exactly kosher either) but
Link Posted: 5/16/2021 5:07:36 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
Now, why this isn't a post sample devise itself is the question...
View Quote


Who says it is not?

I do not think a sample has ever been provide ATF for testing.
Link Posted: 5/16/2021 5:08:44 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I made an inquiry on GunBroker to PacTac1 (which is Pacific Tactical Research Design & Development, LLC) https://www.ptrdd.com/ (360) 580-1164 and they replied that their trigger group, which is 4-position (burst also) with their custom selector, would function as 3-position (safe, semi, auto) with a standard M16 selector, but never confirmed having any in-stock and ready to ship.
View Quote


Someone bought one off GB, and was quoted 3-4 months.
Link Posted: 5/16/2021 6:43:50 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Someone bought one off GB, and was quoted 3-4 months.
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Did they receive it?

Wasn't that the member here who ordered on his CC and then cancelled the purchase after hearing the lead time?
If it is, I can't find the thread.
Link Posted: 5/16/2021 6:48:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Did they receive it?

Wasn't that the member here who ordered on his CC and then cancelled the purchase after hearing the lead time?
If it is, I can't find the thread.
View Quote


Yeah it was that guy

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Remember-the-Texas-Shootist-drop-in-trigger-auto-sear-group-its-back/23-523902/
Link Posted: 5/16/2021 6:53:15 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yeah it was that guy
https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Remember-the-Texas-Shootist-drop-in-trigger-auto-sear-group-its-back/23-523902/
View Quote
Yeah I just found it too. lol
@Steamedliver
Link Posted: 5/16/2021 8:57:54 PM EDT
[#9]
Yes I ordered and then cancelled after hearing how long it was going to be before I got it.  He did offer me a discount, just for being in Texas.  I'm sure he would apply that discount if asked.

The reason I was given, that they are in full production and can not keep up with the orders from law enforcement.   So non-LE orders will take longer.

That is what I was told.

This site has AR enthusiasts (duh) and I have not read of anyone getting this trigger.

Was the Gun Broker sale not for one ready to ship?
Link Posted: 5/16/2021 9:08:27 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The reason I was given, that they are in full production and can not keep up with the orders from law enforcement.   So non-LE orders will take longer.
That is what I was told.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The reason I was given, that they are in full production and can not keep up with the orders from law enforcement.   So non-LE orders will take longer.
That is what I was told.
Did he say who in LE had received one (like any specific agencies)?

This site has AR enthusiasts (duh) and I have not read of anyone getting this trigger.
Nor have I.

Was the Gun Broker sale not for one ready to ship?
I'm thinking not. Never actually heard either way.
I did not specifically ask that, but I should have.
Link Posted: 5/16/2021 10:22:49 PM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 5/16/2021 11:20:25 PM EDT
[#12]
Thanks for the screenshot.

I doubt many people in LE are aware of its (potential) existence.
It's not really something agencies would need/want.

Nobody on my various Facebook NFA groups has shown one off either.
Link Posted: 5/18/2021 1:55:36 PM EDT
[#13]
There is a simple answer here gentlemen; he is a liar and a fraud.

I normally don't dog people over the internet but for some reason this guy and his business bother me. I have tremendous respect for our title 2 community and all of the one-man innovators. I gladly pay money for cool stuff and absolutely trust I will get what I pay for (CF-W Bolts, ACR M10 stock adapters, 50 round GG mags, small production bells and whistles). But this guy doesn't have anything.

Over the course of 26 emails I repeatedly asked to see a fully assembled REAL unit and got nothing but excuses. I asked to see finished triggers (as they were offering flat or curved options), finished selectors; and got pictures of generic off-the-shelf parts. I ASKED TO COME TO THEIR RETAIL LOCATION (nope, LE and .gov only)........right......

@KitBuilder is absolutely correct here; why the hell would LE or an Agency buy these when they can get drilled lowers and standard parts? This guy (his wife actually) told me when I ordered that they had to get civilian sales completed so "they could start on a big defense contract and would need all production dedicated to that, so better order now if you want our product.".....which I never got.

This guy is a con, his business produces vaporware. Again, I hate dogging on people but WE ALL HATE SCAMMERS.

@Quarterbore I would love to see someone actually make this to prolong the life of RR's. But I see little value in the concept otherwise.....($50 Anderson, jig and parts for all who can make posties).

And there are plenty of threads talking about putting in 4-position burst kits because "so cool much wow 3 round burst".....and then taking them right back out.



Link Posted: 5/18/2021 2:14:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
There is a simple answer here gentlemen; he is a liar and a fraud.

I normally don't dog people over the internet but for some reason this guy and his business bother me. I have tremendous respect for our title 2 community and all of the one-man innovators. I gladly pay money for cool stuff and absolutely trust I will get what I pay for (CF-W Bolts, ACR M10 stock adapters, 50 round GG mags, small production bells and whistles). But this guy doesn't have anything.

Over the course of 26 emails I repeatedly asked to see a fully assembled REAL unit and got nothing but excuses. I asked to see finished triggers (as they were offering flat or curved options), finished selectors; and got pictures of generic off-the-shelf parts. I ASKED TO COME TO THEIR RETAIL LOCATION (nope, LE and .gov only)........right......

@KitBuilder is absolutely correct here; why the hell would LE or an Agency buy these when they can get drilled lowers and standard parts? This guy (his wife actually) told me when I ordered that they had to get civilian sales completed so "they could start on a big defense contract and would need all production dedicated to that, so better order now if you want our product.".....which I never got.

This guy is a con, his business produces vaporware. Again, I hate dogging on people but WE ALL HATE SCAMMERS.

@Quarterbore I would love to see someone actually make this to prolong the life of RR's. But I see little value in the concept otherwise.....($50 Anderson, jig and parts for all who can make posties).

And there are plenty of threads talking about putting in 4-position burst kits because "so cool much wow 3 round burst".....and then taking them right back out.
View Quote


I am waiting for the 2020 MFG report (https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/data-statistics) to see how many he really made, if any.
Link Posted: 5/18/2021 3:39:58 PM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 5/18/2021 5:39:34 PM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 5/18/2021 5:46:12 PM EDT
[#17]
This would have been a cool device in 1985 (by the way it was 35 years ago today was the last day for Joe Citizen to make a F1 Machine Gun), as you easily move it gun to gun. But today I do not see much of a market for it.

On another note, Can anyone even find this outfit in the FFL database?
Link Posted: 5/18/2021 8:02:32 PM EDT
[#18]
@RenegadeX, this is probably too much info but I was fed up with this company and did in-depth DD out of sheer curiosity.

Refer to the below link, it's a hosted PDF, and scroll down to page 38. This will give you a view of what this man does (did) for a business. He's not longer at the listed address however.

Shootist Arms Company LLC

Also, refer to his extremely shoddy Linked In summary of the current status of his business and "what he's trying to accomplish." Clearly he's not a business guy and has difficulty with execution, follow-through, and is not equipped to make actual stuff. He does have CAD experience however, so this explains his renderings.

Rusty Cox - LinkedIn Profile

Bottom line is this is probably a pipe dream he continues to ride. If he had a provisional patent application in, that window of protection is LONG GONE; and I seriously doubt he forked over the money for a utility patent. So this idea is actually free game for anyone who wants to execute.

Regarding his FFL. He's started and abandoned so many LLC's who knows which one it would be under. My guess is his last actual FFL died with the "Shootist Arms Company." There are reviews for that listed in the below link (recent reviews of people who know about Pacific Tactical.)

Shootist Arms Reviews

I am fully aware I went overkill on this dude. Again, I respect and trust this community and do not respect people who try and take advantage of that trust.

In the days of rapid prototyping, 3D-printing, and an organic groundswell of small shops that make stuff, the bullshit coming from this company is completely unacceptable.

If this guy actually got a Defense/LE/Agency contract, holy shit..............I think picking all this apart, there is no way.
Link Posted: 5/19/2021 7:18:59 PM EDT
[#19]
I’ve read over and over that burst kits aren’t worth it.  

I also believe this is a lesson that needs to be learned first hand.
Link Posted: 5/19/2021 7:26:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 5/24/2021 12:08:39 PM EDT
[#21]
So do these exist or not? They don’t answer the phone and there’s red flags all over the GB auctions. I can’t find a real picture of one either. Real or not?
Link Posted: 5/24/2021 6:36:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
So do these exist or not? They don’t answer the phone and there’s red flags all over the GB auctions. I can’t find a real picture of one either. Real or not?
View Quote



So I got a call back from an angry Russian woman? Broken English and was rude and pushy. They do not have ANY in stock, nor have they ever. The ones “I’m stock on Gun Broker” are pre production prototypes that are going to their huge DOD contract. I shit you not, that’s what she said. I asked if anyone could buy it and she said “only if you have a tax stamp or a registered M4”. Half truths. Approximate ship date is 3 plus months for the “in stock” triggers on GB. I asked her if they have any pictures or ANYTHING to show a real one and she deflected back to her “we’re very busy with DOD contract.” Total BS, TOTAL SCAM.
Link Posted: 5/24/2021 11:13:18 PM EDT
[#23]
Tax stamp and M4 receiver..

You BS. They don't know what they are talking about.  That device by itself is a MG.
Page Armory » M-16
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