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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2024 12:07:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Odinforever2000]
 This Rifle Fires Plastic Ammo; The US Army Almost Adopted it. GT got his hands on the original Prototype used in the NGSW trials...So it was rather worn out when it came to accuracy testing..But..ran like a top and unchanged from when it was used in the NGSW trials. I would note, GT did not accuracy test a 277Fury sig spear (with the standard velocity stuff) and Sig is reducing the high velocity round from 80k psi to 70kpsi due to barrel life and accuracy concerns. The Spear in 308 averages around 1moa with 168gr Federal Premium...I'm pretty sure this would be a similar result were RM277 chambered in the more common 308. Can fire in full auto with both open and closed capabilities (that is neat but would have no application in the civy market). Ambi controls. Poly cased Ammo doing around 2900 fps with a 19" barrel (135gr projectile). Very controllable recoil on full auto. Brevis Delta P suppressor looks neat..20db reduction.. I would love to see this come to the US in 308 (semi auto bleh)..Where we can see more improvements on the trigger and wider ammunition availability for small groups :p |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 12:17:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Missilegeek]
[#1]
Eh not GD
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2024 3:15:29 PM EDT
[#2]
That was the only rifle from the program I was liking, but Sig clearly had the better support weapon, and had far more of a foothold in US acquisitions.
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Posted: 3/24/2024 4:06:15 PM EDT
[#3]
Making it semi auto only would make the trigger much easier to improve. The open/closed bolt makes a decent trigger difficult. Other caliber options would be interesting. Is it only capable of shooting polymer ammo or can it use standard cases, that would be a big thing if bringing it to market.
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NC, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2024 7:12:37 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WriterClarke: That was the only rifle from the program I was liking, but Sig clearly had the better support weapon, and had far more of a foothold in US acquisitions. Well, the Sig weapon was basically the same gun from the CSASS program trials. So, their gun had the longest "soak" time having been through multiple submissions. I think the RM277 and specifically the 68TVCM were the better weapon. But Sig's machine gun was the obvious winner between the three final contenders. If nothing at all ever comes of the NGSW-R, at least the machine gun got adopted and that's more important anyway. That said, this is like the most perfected bullpup I've ever seen in terms of solving the ergonomic and accessory problems. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 1:00:02 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WriterClarke: That was the only rifle from the program I was liking, but Sig clearly had the better support weapon, and had far more of a foothold in US acquisitions. the army asked for an automatic rifle (RPK, BAR, LSW), not a GPMG. it could therefore be said that GD was the only company that actually met the requirements. however, the fact that the army fields the M249 shows they have no idea what an AR actually is. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 8:56:01 AM EDT
[#6]
This thing is fascinating!
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WA, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:16:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Armed_Scientist]
[#7]
6.8 TVCM and that rifle should have won NGSW, especially in light of the original LSAT programs goals. My guess is when they opted to bid an "automatic rifle" rather than a belt fed light machine gun they made a significant strategic error that cost them the program.
That being said, if the civilian version of the rifle ever comes to market I'll be enthusiastically buying one. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:39:07 AM EDT
[#8]
I wonder how well this rifle could transition to conventional ammo...and could it be transitioned back just as easily?
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 12:07:19 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By desertmoon: I wonder how well this rifle could transition to conventional ammo...and could it be transitioned back just as easily? I imagine not difficult..Already uses sr25 pattern mags. Probably just a barrel and bolt change,like the Sig Spear. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 12:27:05 PM EDT
[#10]
The Sig looks like it beats the crap out of those shooting it in comparison.
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Posted: 3/25/2024 3:30:09 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Odinforever2000: I imagine not difficult..Already uses sr25 pattern mags. Probably just a barrel and bolt change,like the Sig Spear.   
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NV, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 6:36:24 PM EDT
[#12]
Never forget what they took from us:
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Posted: 3/25/2024 7:34:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WriterClarke: That was the only rifle from the program I was liking, but Sig clearly had the better support weapon, and had far more of a foothold in US acquisitions. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:39:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Never forget what they took from us: https://i.ibb.co/Gt3FWP0/NGSW-GD-Bullpup-vs-ARX-160.jpg The GD/TV gun is just utterly enchanting. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 2:50:00 AM EDT
[#15]
Any word on a Civilian version of this rifle? Beretta has removed it from their US website.
It seems to be a better SR-25 magazine pattern Bullpup than other options currently in the market. |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:15:58 PM EDT
[#16]
This solves alot of economic issues in terms of controls on bullpups. I would buy this instantly if it became available.
Crossing my fingers. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 4:04:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Master_Blaster]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By desertmoon: No kidding. As absolutely HIDEOUS as the ARX 160 is.; I hear nothing but good things about it. The GD/TV gun is just utterly enchanting. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By desertmoon: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Never forget what they took from us: https://i.ibb.co/Gt3FWP0/NGSW-GD-Bullpup-vs-ARX-160.jpg The GD/TV gun is just utterly enchanting. To me, it looks good. Even more so in person. I cut the factory barrel to 14.5" & installed an improved QD latch, which tighten its groupings on paper. I'd change a few design elements, but overall a rather ground-breaking design, & definitely a unique & successful execution of full upper/lower polymer chassis. I was a fan of the XM277 BP submission. Unfortunately, Beretta's history clearly demonstrates a reluctance to enter or maintain a presence in the rifle caliber segment of the market - they never even bothered to release a semi ARX200 - so I don't see this going anywhere except YT & maybe an arms museum. |
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BC, CAN
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Posted: 3/26/2024 4:29:00 PM EDT
[#18]
Kind of want.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 5:28:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sidpost: Any word on a Civilian version of this rifle? Beretta has removed it from their US website. It seems to be a better SR-25 magazine pattern Bullpup than other options currently in the market. Maybe, Garand thumb reports a pretty bad trigger and 2-4 MOA accuracy. T7 is probably a better choice if those are important drivers for you for a 308 Rifle. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 10:23:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Odinforever2000]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FrozenIceman: Maybe, Garand thumb reports a pretty bad trigger and 2-4 MOA accuracy. T7 is probably a better choice if those are important drivers for you for a 308 Rifle. Rm277 being 2-4moa (per the manufacturer), of, with 1 or 2 bullet weights for an experimental military round in 6.8x51 (no match ammo options yet),and currently (1) rifle in that caliber. vs T7 in 308/762x51 which, is 4moa (Per the manufacturer)with m80 ball (but access to match ammo), and currently mass produced... Sounds like an apples to oranges comparison.. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 10:45:56 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Odinforever2000: Rm277 being 2-4moa (per the manufacturer), of, with 1 or 2 bullet weights for an experimental military round in 6.8x51 (no match ammo options yet),and currently (1) rifle in that caliber. vs T7 in 308/762x51 which, is 4moa (Per the manufacturer)with m80 ball (but access to match ammo), and currently mass produced... Sounds like an apples to oranges comparison.. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Odinforever2000: Originally Posted By FrozenIceman: Maybe, Garand thumb reports a pretty bad trigger and 2-4 MOA accuracy. T7 is probably a better choice if those are important drivers for you for a 308 Rifle. Rm277 being 2-4moa (per the manufacturer), of, with 1 or 2 bullet weights for an experimental military round in 6.8x51 (no match ammo options yet),and currently (1) rifle in that caliber. vs T7 in 308/762x51 which, is 4moa (Per the manufacturer)with m80 ball (but access to match ammo), and currently mass produced... Sounds like an apples to oranges comparison.. I actually looked, IWI hasn't released an accuracy number for the T7. Just the mention in 2019 it wasn't accurate enough and they were going to delay the launch. We know people here have gotten to 1.2 moa. Note this Rifle is suppressed, and is designed with the ammunition. So it should have more chances than most to get the accuracy right. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 11:17:54 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FrozenIceman: I actually looked, IWI hasn't released an accuracy number for the T7. Just the mention in 2019 it wasn't accurate enough and they were going to delay the launch. We know people here have gotten to 1.2 moa. Note this Rifle is suppressed, and is designed with the ammunition. So it should have more chances than most to get the accuracy right. Suppressors can affect accuracy in some guns..Its not a blanket thing tho..The T7 (For example) doesn't seem to have better accuracy with a suppressor on the end (Looking at MACs video) I can test that theory in a couple weeks tho..I have a guy who will let me shoot his T7 for groups if I let him shoot my 308 MDRX. The ammunition designed for the RM277 isn't match ammunition. Its general purpose 3000fps WAM (Kinda like M80 ball) and of course whatever AP round that is also designed for it. MOA accuracy wasn't a design spec for this ammunition...Tho if it was that would be cool. The most accurate groups in the T7 are with commercially available Match ammo. I think if you really want to see what this can do..Its got to be commercially available and in 308 to take advantage of the wide variety of match ammo.. Or...Specifically make match ammo in 6.8x51 for this rifle (which isnt a thing..yet). True Velocity Poly cased stuff (in 308) doesn't produce Match Accuracy in my bullpup(s) but would be fine for general purpose work..(However..Maybe I should try them out of my bolt gun..) |
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Posted: 3/30/2024 3:41:50 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SpyHawk: Well, the Sig weapon was basically the same gun from the CSASS program trials. So, their gun had the longest "soak" time having been through multiple submissions. I think the RM277 and specifically the 68TVCM were the better weapon. But Sig's machine gun was the obvious winner between the three final contenders. If nothing at all ever comes of the NGSW-R, at least the machine gun got adopted and that's more important anyway. That said, this is like the most perfected bullpup I've ever seen in terms of solving the ergonomic and accessory problems. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SpyHawk: Originally Posted By WriterClarke: That was the only rifle from the program I was liking, but Sig clearly had the better support weapon, and had far more of a foothold in US acquisitions. Well, the Sig weapon was basically the same gun from the CSASS program trials. So, their gun had the longest "soak" time having been through multiple submissions. I think the RM277 and specifically the 68TVCM were the better weapon. But Sig's machine gun was the obvious winner between the three final contenders. If nothing at all ever comes of the NGSW-R, at least the machine gun got adopted and that's more important anyway. That said, this is like the most perfected bullpup I've ever seen in terms of solving the ergonomic and accessory problems. That doesn't compute with the trigger review. |
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Posted: 3/30/2024 3:45:05 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: The Sig looks like it beats the crap out of those shooting it in comparison. I'm surprised that this rifle didn't win based off of recoil alone. The girrrllll power lobby is strong in the .mil. Must have won prior or close to 2020 before the effects of election fraud fully set in. |
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Posted: 3/30/2024 3:48:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Missilegeek]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FrozenIceman: Maybe, Garand thumb reports a pretty bad trigger and 2-4 MOA accuracy. T7 is probably a better choice if those are important drivers for you for a 308 Rifle. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FrozenIceman: Originally Posted By sidpost: Any word on a Civilian version of this rifle? Beretta has removed it from their US website. It seems to be a better SR-25 magazine pattern Bullpup than other options currently in the market. Maybe, Garand thumb reports a pretty bad trigger and 2-4 MOA accuracy. T7 is probably a better choice if those are important drivers for you for a 308 Rifle. This plus Bulpup shoulder mag change ergonomics and No widespread .mil adoption... That's gonna be a big fat NO from me dawg, everytime. To be fair, GT has proven that he has no idea what barrel wear is, just watch the PSA AR video. |
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Posted: 3/30/2024 11:38:14 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By To be fair, GT has proven that he has no idea what barrel wear is, just watch the PSA AR video. The gun they run in the video is one of the Army test articles. The TV rep said to them (off camera? I don't recall) that the barrel was pretty much shot out. Despite that, the gun seems to have run like a champ. Would love to see a revisit with just a new barrel and bolt on THAT gun. |
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