Need some advice from the hive on gear & setups.  Currently I'm running a crye SPC with the crye avs triple mag shingle on front, esstac single front left on the cummerbund as a 'speed reload', TQ under the plate plates & a med pouch on my right side.  I took some advice from you guys and went and took my gear out for a night ruck under nods with buddy that has nods.  We covered about 3.5 miles of wandering through fields & brush.   I realized a few things I need to upgrade:

-get a single BFB pouch for the speed reload, the esstac was too hard to manipulate in that position
-Need to get my IR laser situation squared away since running my 1-4 trij accupoint under nods was very difficult
-Need a better way to carry water/snacks than cargo pockets
-Get my helmet mounted ear pro ordered

Ultimately I'm looking for something similar (if its even out there) to the USMC Sustainment Pouch, that would have the following items ideally:
-molle on the outside,
- have a center divider so I can have the water bladder in part & some storage (this would keep any sharp edges away from the hydration pouch

Positive items:
-TW bump with the tnvc white/ir light echo arms was clutch since I forgot a small handheld light
-Mantle Mod 1 pants were a solid choice, comfortable & good movement
- Loved my triple aught boots, lightweight & comfortable through the woods, they're not ideal on concrete all day, but in the woods they were good

I strongly recommend keeping sustainment gear in a pack and NOT affixed to your armor, especially with a minimalist carrier like an SPC (which is also what I use). If you really want it attached for the sake of less movement and no shoulder straps in front, there are packs that can be clipped on/off the armor very easily. Take a look at Tactical Tailor's "Removable Operator Pack", and if you want to take one on a test run IM me.

My PC's use the purpose built Source Body Armor Bladders (Horizontal Hose Exit) - you can fit about 2 Litre's in the 3 Litre system and barely feel it. Or something like a Flat Pack...have your buddy get your Cliff Bars. A PC Dangler (not for water though) can carry a lot of 'nice to have' items. My Main PC has an ADAPT Pack that is self-removable (It came with MOLLE adapters for the PC Shoulder Straps) - unless your mfg offers a Plug 'n Play option, you need to get creative with Webbing/G-Hooks/Plastic Buckles, etc... But it can be done. Just some things to look at/try - only you know, what'll work for you.

So, when it comes to items carried on my back while in a plate carrier I don't personally like traditional backpacks (the straps get in the way of good shouldering of my rifle's stock for me and can ride up into my arm pits when in a plate carrier).   I don't like zip on back panels, because again you can self-access those things.  

Right now, I use an Eagle Industries Zip-On Modular Assault Pack (MAP, sometimes called MAP III) that I modified to use the Haley Strategic Piggback Straps (originally designed for their Flat Pack) to carry the MAP on my Ferro FCPC with helps from VXV Concepts adapters.  In my humble opinion, whether you use the Haley Strategic Flatpack, Shaw Concepts Plate Carrier Pack (PCP), Tactical Tailor Fight Light Pack with its piggback set-up, or modify something like I did that's a good way to go.  

However, another interesting set-up I recently found and have been waiting to see in action is the "Summer of Bummer" detachable plate panel (I found them on Instagram) and they have a very unique solution for setting up rear panel pouches that would still be "self-accessible" so that you could access the stuff yourself.  Although, I'm not sure how easy it would be to put back on yourself and will need more information on it.  

A lot of guys will either place an assault pack into their ruck or they will attach it to the outside of the ruck on it's MOLLE, but that second method requires finding a ruck with enough MOLLE in the right spots to work in conjunction with the assault pack.  Crossfire has a Ruck with a detachable lid that can be used as an assault and I believe they working on an option to have a detachable lid that can be piggyback attached to a plate carrier.  

The ideal is to have stuff on your back that doesn't interfere with the shouldering of your rifle or cut off circulation of your arms when in a plate carrier and that can be integrated with your primary ruck so that when you ditch your ruck you can grab your assault pack very quickly and just go without making a mess or losing anything.  

@rudderbutter
@mickdonaldson
@KaerMorhenResident

I guess not sustainment, but some water & maybe lickies & chewies.  Maybe a few spare mags or something (I've got 4-6 up front depending on how i load up).  The specific item I'm looking at is the Sord Hydration XL.   I was looking at getting some ghooks or carabiners to allow it to quick attach/detach.   I've got a pack I can wear over something like a water bladder if needed as long as its not too full.  My thoughts on armor is raid style use, if its long term in the woods or with a pack I'd probably roll a recce rig and pack.  I'm trying to ruck with my gear once a month to test out what I've got; I already found out my carrier was too loose.


Pouch:
https://www.sordusa.com/hydration-xl

I'm going to make this very simple

If you're not rocking a pack, get some type of bladder and molle it on the rear. I like qore stuff but this really doesn't matter much. Wtfidea makes some real cool zip on hydration pouches cut for crye or spiritus specifically.

How much snacks do you need?

Put a small/medium sustainment pouch at the front right or front left cummerbund slots. If you have reloads move those pouches internally on the cummerbund. Put snacks in pouch. Profit.

Are you using a belt? Subload the medical stuff in the small of your back with some type of removable pouch. Just about anything will work for this as long as the pouch as an inner portion that is removable from EITHER SIDE.

See shitty pics

Attached File



Edit***
A lot of dudes subscribe to the 1st 2nd 3rd line thing where each piece is separate. That's a great way to do things but it's also acceptable to design the system as a whole to be used together exclusively. IE this belt, pc, and pack are incomplete on their own but together they make a very streamlined system

Eagle industries MAP, tag combat sustainment or mini combat sustainment, mayflower Helium whisper backpanel. all have a bladder plus some gear storage. Not friendly for self use however.

A small camelbak pack like the MULE?

Do you think you need 1.5 liters of water or 3 liters of water?

A lot of the MOLLE on and ZIP-On back panels will only carry 1.5 liters of water.  If you're going up to 3 liters you're then looking at having to go with a small/mini assault pack.

Temp, activity level, terrain (shaded trees vs. hot asphalt), duration, time on target, anticipate resupply, and your personal water consumption (do you sweat a lot or no?) will dictate water consumption.  If you don't really know what your water consumption needs are, go by some Gatorade GX Sweat Patches, down the Gatorade app, and give yourself a sweat test to get a general idea of what kind of water loss you have and replacement you require (keep in mind temp impacts this so just because in December your test results are one thing doesn't mean that they would be the same in July).   There are more sophisticated sweat tests you can get that involve sending your samples into a lab for analysis, but they're more expensive.  

@hoody2shoez  Thanks man!  i never thought about moving all the mag stuff to inside the cummerbund really, that would be much easier.  Belt is currently only setup with a 1+2 esstac, dump pouch, & pistol.  Med is TBD but looking at a Roll1 likely.  Got to play with one sat night & liked it.

For me the line 1 is everyday carry stuff, 2 is warbelt & carrier, 3 is with a ruck.

@KaerMorhenResident  My water consumption isn't that high honestly.  I do a decent amount of running/rucking/sandbag stuff and i sweat, but nothing near some people I know.  My normal test is ruck around the neighborhood with 50ish lbs and see how long until Im miserable.    Good idea?  probably not.

Like I said, there's no shame in creating the entire unit as a single line. Belt for ammo, pc for medical/water/food/equipment for example

@hoody2shoez I appreciate the guidance man.  I know stuff like this I need to test my gear & try to solicit for advice since I've got a limited budget.  Also those beez shoulder pads you sent me were clutch, just enough padding & minimal interference shouldering a stock.

Excellent! I really loved them from a functional standpoint. Well worth the money

OP was talking about a night stroll with a buddy, so i think something less than 8hrs and not alone.
When i was active duty our load was 2 liters per man every 24 hours plus two stripped US MREs per day (usually obtained exchanging them with our ones). This was up to three days in the field. It gets old quick as you have extra Weight at the beginning and dehydration, hunger and cold at the end.

i think 1.5 liters and a small pouch for snacks Is reasonable on the carrier for up to a day. More than that i would carry a standalone pack.

@joeviterbo you put it better than me.  It wouldn’t be super long I’d be in a carrier only.  My end goal is water, some snacks, & a windshirt in the small pack.

I have these items in my Flatpack on my slickster

@hoody2shoez I got some Blue force style elastic pouches in the inside of the cummerbund; much nicer & helps fill sone of the dead space since I’m not huge.  Thank you for that suggestion.  

@Hoosier_Home thanks for turning me o to SORD, I ordered up a small back panel for water with a pouch I’ll keep nods in.

Do the sweat test.

Serious endurance athletes like those that compete in Ironman Competitions, Triathlons, Ultra Marathons and so forth conduct sweat tests for a reason, so they can figure out how much water they need to maintain peak physical performance.  That will give you an idea of what level of "sustainment" you need.

Knowledge is power and there is nothing more powerful for a man than knowing his body exactly.

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
? Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Glad it helped. Feel free to shoot questions as the come up

@KaerMorhenResident  I'll probably go out this weekend or next in full kit again.

I’m going to be divergent, but here is my solution.

1. I hate camelbacks.
2. Carrying water bottles on your kit sux.

I carry 2-3 hydroflask insulated water bottles or Gatorade or whatever in my assault packs (not attached to my armor)

On my person, I will usually carry 1-2 small, flat, collapsible water bottles. REI sells some that will fit in side plate pouches. They are easy to access, move with your body, don’t make noise, and… you can FREEZE THEM prior to a movement to act as a cooling pad.

This will change your life.

Use these while moving, and then you can top them off from your assault pack when you stop. Bonus points, if you have a hydro flask, you’re adding ice water back onto your sides every time you refill them.

Thank me later.

That's a pretty cool solution, but how much water does that give you?  Plus, if you've got those inserted into your side plate pouches than I take it you're not running side plates?

Yeah, if you don't do the formal sweat test with Gatorade sweat strips than at least keep track of the water consumption.  Keep your goal as looking to maintain optimum hydration and see how much water you go through.  Track your performance as well.  For instance, if you're going to do a ruck see what your mile times are like and whether during the course of your ruck you're staying at a steady sustainable pace. I'm going to be 46 this year and I'll tell ya learning how your body performs and listening to it is an art form and it's what separates the normies from the hard chargers in my opinion.  There is an old saying that "if you don't measure something you can't manage it."  Once we have things measured and quantified we than we can do the little 1% performance increases per week, because we know exactly what that 1% really means and if we can improve every week by 1% steadily week after week we very soon reach new levels.  Have fun!

I use the same - have a 1 Liter, and a 500ml. They also make a Filter Cap for them, so you can fill with dirty water if needed. I also have a 4 Liter to lug around - I really like the Collapsible Hydro Flask/Pak stuff.

Correct, I don’t currently use side plates. If I did I would still use the same method just tailored slightly, probably reduce to one side mounted or belt mounted soft bottle in a small pouch. The one I linked to will fit in an admin pouch. As described, I usually have 2x 16 ounces on my person, and 2-3 quarts in my assault pack depending on what we are doing. I can top off the small “bottles” on my person from the water in my assault pack as time allows.

This is fascinating I’ve never heard of those.

I sweat a ton and generally have high water consumption. Optimal for feeling good while moving/rucking in hot weather is at least a quart per hour although I can get by with less- at the expense of needing to do solid rehydration later. Having the “science” would be very interesting, thanks for the nudge.

Okay, so that's a good amount water (over 3 liters if my math is right).  

Definitely better than hard containers where the water is going to slosh around making noise.  I just haven't had any issues with the modern Camelbak Crux bladders, which are pretty sturdy in construction IMO. I think so long as you put those bladders in a protective sleeve inside a pack and take care not to have sharp items that could poke into them inside the pack that you should be fine.  I'm not dealing with guys though slamming heavy things into my pack or worried about really just beating the Hell of my pack since I handle it myself.  I will probably include some collapsible secondary water bags in my kit though just in case as a back-up. If my main Camelbak goes I'll just have to find a water source to fill those back-up ones up.  Since I live in Michigan water sources aren't really a huge issue (just have to have filtration capability).  

Yeah, I learned about the sweat test from Nick Bare from Bare Performance Nutrition (BPN).  Nick is a former U.S. Army officer, Ranger Qualified, who started his own supplement business. He as part of his marketing is always doing fitness stuff and when he got into doing Triathlons in one of his YT videos he did a sweat test, which is how I learned about them.  Nick had his done by a lab, but when I looked up the different options I discovered the Gatorade test strips and App, which is a cheaper and faster way to go just maybe not as hyper accurate as the lab one Nick did.   I've learned a lot about the science of fitness from Nick's YT channel.  It's really amazing what these Triathletes, ultra runners and the like are doing to get more scientific with their training.  I think a lot of it can help even us non-athletes out who are just into fitness and health.

I'm going to be 46 this year and I'm on a personal journey to stay "combat effective" well into my 50's.   I know to do that is no small task and going to require I science the #$%* out of fitness.

I use qore iceplates for this.

While conductive thermal regulation is helpful, it is no replacement to being acclimated to your AO and the only way to do that is to get out of your climate controlled house and spend time outside. Part of being physically fit is being able to handle the weather of your area.

This exactly.  Some people fail to understand how sitting stationary on a perimeter ( waiting for Shiite to go down ) and in full kit can be draining as well. Have water and some thing to eat - think protein. Look at your environment. I typically work in hot / humid conditions. I love protein bars, but they become a sticky mess.

When I lived in AZ, I made sure to stay away from ice in my water, even using minimal A/C on the way to a hike. Acclimating meant I could go further and do so more safely. I hiked a lot at 105-110*. My daily water consumption even dropped about 500mL over the course of a warm season (so, 1.5 gallons instead of two )

The problem with anything you can keep on you without melting is that usually it solicits an immediate need for water. Things like clif bars, trail mix, etc.  I typically don't keep any food in my PC for that reason, and use amino, protein, and electrolyte packets instead.

I wear gear in hot climates a lot, and this applies to everything. Tape melts, lighters evaporate, Even C4 gets all soft and gooey.

I try to keep the majority of stuff in my bag and only immediate action stuff on my kit.  The reality is that I have to wear wear stuff on my kt commensurate with the requirements of what I'm doing, and sometimes that means rolling around a bit thicker than normal.

Sometimes that stuff can be broken down and offset into a belt setup. Ideally the most "sustainment" you want on your PC past combat ammo is nods and batteries. I can set a bag down or pull off my belt, I cant take my PC off.

Platatac Echo Bullock MKIV - can be used as small hydration style pack with PC or fixed directly to PC.

Seems like a lot of good answers. So I'll keep mine short. In the Marines after 20 years of conflict we had it down to the following.

Water (3L camel back)

-main pack- bladder inside Camel pack storage contaner. Then strapped to top of pack. Had room for 2-3 cliffbars in camel pack container.

-assault pack- bladder only inside assault pack.

- short patrol- camel pack bladder and camel pack carrier on back.

- slick- back of flack had lay flat sleave always attached to throw bladder in. (My cleaning kit was always in that when I had an M4)

Side note- still always had 1 canteen on my cummerbund incase we had to drop a pack, so as to never not have water. However, sometimes I would toss the canteen out and replace it with smoke,flare, magazines... to go in the canteen pouch, but only after I had placed the bladder in my plate carrier sleave.