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Posted: 11/29/2023 8:04:18 AM EDT
I just realized that my 03 FFL expired October 1. The ATF sent no renewal notice or communication of any kind.
Is this how they purge us? |
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Posted: 11/29/2023 9:56:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: R2point0]
[#1]
Nevermind - bad advice deleted.
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Posted: 11/29/2023 10:30:32 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R2point0:
FFL03 expired? Chuck your bound book, apply for the license as new, not a renewal. Start new bound book. |
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Posted: 11/29/2023 11:16:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: R2point0]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wildearp: ATF will call and ask for the bound book to be turned in. Don't fuck around with this. |
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Posted: 11/29/2023 11:40:18 AM EDT
[#4]
Originally Posted By MRW: I just realized that my 03 FFL expired October 1. The ATF sent no renewal notice or communication of any kind. Is this how they purge us? |
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Posted: 11/29/2023 1:11:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R2point0: I thought that was only for FFL01's? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R2point0: Originally Posted By wildearp: ATF will call and ask for the bound book to be turned in. Don't fuck around with this. But just like the check, it's in the mail. |
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Posted: 11/29/2023 1:17:29 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAG2955: Nope. But just like the check, it's in the mail. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 11/29/2023 1:39:15 PM EDT
[#7]
Originally Posted By MRW: Is this how they purge us? By hoping you don't see the printed expiration date on your FFL? Seems like a bold plan... |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 11/29/2023 2:39:40 PM EDT
[#8]
You are absolutely NOT required to turn in your bound book when you surrender your C&R FFL.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are-licensed-collectors-required-turn-their-ad-records-atf-if-they-discontinue-their Are licensed collectors required to turn in their A&D records to ATF if they discontinue their collecting activity? No. Licensed collectors are not required to submit their acquisition and disposition (A&D) records to ATF upon discontinuance of their collecting activity. |
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Posted: 11/29/2023 5:00:43 PM EDT
[#9]
Don't assign malice to what can be explained by typical government incompetence. They probably just forgot to notify you or the mailman ate it or something. As a 03 Curio and Relic FFL you aren't required to send your bound book to the BATFE, you can retain it for your own records or destroy it. If you reapply for a 03 FFL you will be issued a new FFL number and will need to start a new bound book.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 11/29/2023 5:11:15 PM EDT
[#10]
Originally Posted By MRW: I just realized that my 03 FFL expired October 1. The ATF sent no renewal notice or communication of any kind. Cool. Maybe you can apply for a new license and burn your old log book. |
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Posted: 11/29/2023 6:25:24 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NAM: You are absolutely NOT required to turn in your bound book when you surrender your C&R FFL. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are-licensed-collectors-required-turn-their-ad-records-atf-if-they-discontinue-their Are licensed collectors required to turn in their A&D records to ATF if they discontinue their collecting activity? No. Licensed collectors are not required to submit their acquisition and disposition (A&D) records to ATF upon discontinuance of their collecting activity. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 11/29/2023 11:32:21 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AT-ST83: By hoping you don't see the printed expiration date on your FFL? Seems like a bold plan... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AT-ST83: Originally Posted By MRW: Is this how they purge us? By hoping you don't see the printed expiration date on your FFL? Seems like a bold plan... You sir............... I salute you. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2023 8:37:51 PM EDT
[#13]
I got my renewal notice around May for late July expiration (this year). Renewal took just a couple of weeks, same as before.
Rob |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 12/1/2023 8:47:44 AM EDT
[#14]
In the OP’s case, if he were to reapply and get a new FFL, could he just rip out the pages from his book and log them into the same book but have the receipt name be his old FFL number or simply their name and address?
I’m really asking here, if you acquire firearms with one 03, it expires, you get a new 03, and the same firearms are still in your collection, do those firearms sit in a limbo state gone from record keeping or do they need to be logged into your new 03? |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 12/1/2023 9:37:39 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mitchman705: In the OP’s case, if he were to reapply and get a new FFL, could he just rip out the pages from his book and log them into the same book but have the receipt name be his old FFL number or simply their name and address? I’m really asking here, if you acquire firearms with one 03, it expires, you get a new 03, and the same firearms are still in your collection, do those firearms sit in a limbo state gone from record keeping or do they need to be logged into your new 03? You only log stuff in you acquired under a particular license. You would not have to log in firearms you acquired under a previous license (other than a license renewel). The exception is if you sell an item that was previously acquired. In that case you log it into your bound book from yourself and then out to the purchaser. Yes it is a work around if you worry about the ATF knowing what you have but I would not recommend abusing this. I have had different C&R FFLs over time but there was a break of 4-5 years between them. If you are picked for a C&R audit, all they want to see is the activity that occurred under your current license. |
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ND, USA
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Posted: 12/1/2023 10:12:06 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NAM: You are absolutely NOT required to turn in your bound book when you surrender your C&R FFL. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are-licensed-collectors-required-turn-their-ad-records-atf-if-they-discontinue-their Are licensed collectors required to turn in their A&D records to ATF if they discontinue their collecting activity? No. Licensed collectors are not required to submit their acquisition and disposition (A&D) records to ATF upon discontinuance of their collecting activity. I think the key words are “collection activity”. If you don’t renew, they want your bound book. I just got a letter this summer stating if I didn’t renew my 03 FFL, they wanted all my records. At least that’s how I read the letter. So, I just sent them a check for $30. 
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WI, USA
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:22:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: NAM]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shadyman: I think the key words are “collection activity”. If you don’t renew, they want your bound book. I just got a letter this summer stating if I didn’t renew my 03 FFL, they wanted all my records. At least that’s how I read the letter. So, I just sent them a check for $30. Mind posting a redacted copy of that letter? I believe it to be incorrect, erroneous, or improperly interpreted. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 12/1/2023 3:59:03 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NAM: You are absolutely NOT required to turn in your bound book when you surrender your C&R FFL. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are-licensed-collectors-required-turn-their-ad-records-atf-if-they-discontinue-their Are licensed collectors required to turn in their A&D records to ATF if they discontinue their collecting activity? No. Licensed collectors are not required to submit their acquisition and disposition (A&D) records to ATF upon discontinuance of their collecting activity. This. You do not send in you book. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 12/1/2023 4:01:24 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NAM: Mind posting a redacted copy of that letter? I believe it to be incorrect, erroneous, or improperly interpreted. Would like to see this letter as well. It even says on the renewal form that if you are not renewing you are NOT required to submit your book. |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 6:52:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: K1rodeoboater]
[#20]
I think I'm on my 3rd or 4th license. There's been a few years gap on all of them. Never have gotten a "we want your bound book" letter
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Posted: 12/1/2023 9:21:07 PM EDT
[#21]
I called and spoke to a human at ATF
The only thing I can do is reapply for a new one. no mention of turning in my records |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 12/3/2023 11:40:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kalashnikov762]
[#22]
It just comes down to jurisdictions and proper training. There are some noobs or poorly trained agents that simply don't know the difference between an 01 and 03 license requirements. Not a problem in every state.
As for the mail issue, I had a license never make it to my mailbox. I called ATF and they e-mailed me one. |
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Posted: 12/9/2023 2:09:23 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAG2955: Nope. But just like the check, it's in the mail. @JAG2955 03 FFL holders DO NOT turn in their A&D books when they cease using their C&R license. |
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Posted: 12/9/2023 2:14:59 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tazaroo: @JAG2955 03 FFL holders DO NOT turn in their A&D books when they cease using their C&R license. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tazaroo: Originally Posted By JAG2955: Nope. But just like the check, it's in the mail. @JAG2955 03 FFL holders DO NOT turn in their A&D books when they cease using their C&R license. |
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Posted: 12/9/2023 3:06:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAG2955: Yep, I was already corrected. sorry…..I should have kept scrolling |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/19/2023 12:58:29 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shadyman: I think the key words are “collection activity”. If you don’t renew, they want your bound book. I just got a letter this summer stating if I didn’t renew my 03 FFL, they wanted all my records. At least that’s how I read the letter. So, I just sent them a check for $30. I am sure they do "want" you records. Too bad they don't have any right to get them after you don't renew. |
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Posted: 1/22/2024 8:06:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: spmx7777]
[#27]
Keep your expired license or at least a copy of it; when you apply for a new FFL ATF will ask if you had an FFL previously and what the number was.
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Posted: 1/31/2024 12:29:19 AM EDT
[#28]
I think there is some confusion on C&R bound book records needing to be turned in due to that being part of the proposed "Frame-Receiver" rule changes. I don't know if that part made it into the final ruling, or if it even matters now that the ruling had been struck down (last I knew). That ruling changed the 20 destruction period for FFLs to a permanent retention and turn-in when giving up the license. Including C&R type 03 licenses.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 1/31/2024 6:15:16 AM EDT
[#29]
I just got my renewal packet last week.
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AR, USA
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Posted: 1/31/2024 11:33:15 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kbailey3: I think there is some confusion on C&R bound book records needing to be turned in due to that being part of the proposed "Frame-Receiver" rule changes. I don't know if that part made it into the final ruling, or if it even matters now that the ruling had been struck down (last I knew). That ruling changed the 20 destruction period for FFLs to a permanent retention and turn-in when giving up the license. Including C&R type 03 licenses. I just got my 03 renewal packet. It still specifically states on the renewal form that if you elect not to renew and let it expire, 03 C&R FFLs aren't required to send in their bound books. See the middle "Not Renewing" section on the below example of the form. Underneath the bound book turn-in mailing address, it states: Collectors of Curios and Relics are NOT required to send their firearms records to the ATF 
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