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Posted: 9/6/2020 9:50:02 PM EDT
[#1]
My subsonic reloads are running anywhere from 980 fps to about 1050 fps depending on the load.
But I always check to make sure they aren't keyholing before putting on the suppressor when developing new loads. |
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Posted: 9/6/2020 10:29:03 PM EDT
[#2]
Quite a few stability calculators out there. I run mine around 1050 but I wouldn’t sweat going down to even 900 with a 1:7 twist.
Net, with proper twist I wouldn’t sweat it. |
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Posted: 9/6/2020 10:46:42 PM EDT
[#3]
Yes, I used the calculator and am stable. My barrel is an 8 twist. I used 11.5 grains of 1680 with 450 primers. I was averaging 1148fps. *w/suppressor installed. I was wondering if anyone dropped down to 1000fps or so? Thank y’all for your responses.
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Posted: 9/6/2020 10:56:32 PM EDT
[#4]
I use 10.9 of 1680 with 220’s, get 980 FPS in an 8 inch 1/7 twist, and great accuracy, solid function, and they will nearly cut a squirrel in half.
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Posted: 9/6/2020 11:06:59 PM EDT
[#5]
I always run my subsonics as low as I can get them to reliably cycle.
Even "subsonic" bullets can create supersonic flow. You don't really get to true quiet shots until you're in the 900fps and below range. Go to 5:20, yay science!  Shockwave Shadows in Ultra Slow Motion (Bullet Schlieren) - Smarter Every Day 203  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/6/2020 11:50:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Doc, I’ve never seen that before. I’m going back to the calculator and see how much I can slow them down. At which point I’ll see how much energy is left.
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Posted: 9/7/2020 12:32:12 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doc, I’ve never seen that before. I’m going back to the calculator and see how much I can slow them down. At which point I’ll see how much energy is left. I stick around 900fps if I can get away with it. I've built and rebuilt my 300blkout ARs so many times now I can't keep up with what parts are in which ARs. I have a 900fps load I use in my favorite AR that is my usual one I shoot. Has a big ass Specwar 762 on it and it sure is quiet! |
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Posted: 9/7/2020 1:10:43 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doc, I’ve never seen that before. I’m going back to the calculator and see how much I can slow them down. At which point I’ll see how much energy is left. Your not going to get to quiet with 1680 no matter how slow you go. Load up a 220 smk with 7 - 8 grains VV n110 and listen to the magic. You can also use H110 but then you need a mag primer and have documented issues with reduced loads. Long story short. Go with the vv n110. The why is in how fast the powders burn and gas generated. That gas is also sound. And 1680 is loud as fuck. The gas is why 1680 can cycle a 16" carbine length gas rifle. Also why it sounds like 9mm +p. N110 will start to burn itself out in 8" barrels before it reaches the pistol length gas block. If you seat them deep or crimp they won't cycle. Seat them long, no crimp. They cycle fine and sound like 22lr |
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Posted: 9/7/2020 8:55:55 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your not going to get to quiet with 1680 no matter how slow you go. Load up a 220 smk with 7 - 8 grains VV n110 and listen to the magic. You can also use H110 but then you need a mag primer and have documented issues with reduced loads. Long story short. Go with the vv n110. The why is in how fast the powders burn and gas generated. That gas is also sound. And 1680 is loud as fuck. The gas is why 1680 can cycle a 16" carbine length gas rifle. Also why it sounds like 9mm +p. N110 will start to burn itself out in 8" barrels before it reaches the pistol length gas block. If you seat them deep or crimp they won't cycle. Seat them long, no crimp. They cycle fine and sound like 22lr If you use N120 you won’t have cycling issues and is just as quiet. Burn rate is just one notch slower but N120 produces about 20% more gas than N110 at similar velocities which aide in cycling subs. And totally agree with the 1680 comments. Nothing is quiet with 1680. Loudest, dirtiest powder there is for 300 subs. |
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Posted: 9/11/2020 9:34:55 PM EDT
[#10]
I figured I'd ask here instead of creating a new thread. I purchased some Lehigh Defense Maximum Expansion® 194gr subsonic bullets for my .300 Blackout rifles and pistol. I will be shooting suppressed. Lehigh has suggested loads on their site with a few different powders, two of which I have -- H110 and H4198 (well, actually after checking, mine is IMR4198.).
My friend has decades of handloading experience and always helps me load various calibers, with him supplying the equipment and me supplying the components. My biggest question is: Will I need any sort of filler in conjunction with the powder? I'd prefer to use the H110 if possible, as I have more of it on hand, plus it's what I use with my supersonic loads. Neither my two rifles nor my pistol are semi-auto, so there will be no cycling concerns. I'd like to run them on the slower side to be as quiet as possible, but I don't want squibs either. 
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Posted: 9/11/2020 9:37:01 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I figured I'd ask here instead of creating a new thread. I purchased some Lehigh Defense Maximum Expansion 194gr subsonic bullets for my .300 Blackout rifles and pistol. I will be shooting suppressed. Lehigh has suggested loads on their site with a few different powders, two of which I have -- H110 and H4198 (well, actually after checking, mine is IMR4198.). My friend has decades of handloading experience and always helps me load various calibers, with him supplying the equipment and me supplying the components. My biggest question is: Will I need any sort of filler in conjunction with the powder? No I'd prefer to use the H110 if possible, as I have more of it on hand, plus it's what I use with my supersonic loads. Neither my two rifles nor my pistol are semi-auto, so there will be no cycling concerns. I'd like to run them on the slower side to be as quiet as possible, but I don't want squibs either. No, unless you want problems. |
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Posted: 9/11/2020 9:51:32 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, unless you want problems. That's good to know. Neither of us has experience with subsonic ammunition. |
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Posted: 9/11/2020 9:56:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Everything you wanted to know about 300 blk, https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/300-Blackout-Master-Thread/42-385765/
First page has a lot of good info, then it goes like all long Arfcom threads. |
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Posted: 9/11/2020 10:06:53 PM EDT
[#14]
I'm new to the game and only have 1 but my dealer turned me on to a load that's been perfect.
Rifle's a 16 inch, pistol gas AEM5 can. (yes, I had it made .30 cal.) Load's a Gallant 220gr coated over 10.8 grs. of CFE-BLK seated at 2.065". Stupid quiet, (again, I'm new and have no comparison) I've filmed shooting and you can easily hear people talking and the bullet hitting downrange. I realize 16 inch pistol length gas should be the most forgiving setup, and it's been flawless, a good starter combo. I haven't chrono'd mine, but my dealer said it was 950fps, but as he didn't tell me what the configuration was that's useless info. |
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Posted: 9/11/2020 10:59:03 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm new to the game and only have 1 but my dealer turned me on to a load that's been perfect. Rifle's a 16 inch, pistol gas AEM5 can. (yes, I had it made .30 cal.) Load's a Gallant 220gr coated over 10.8 grs. of CFE-BLK seated at 2.065". Stupid quiet, (again, I'm new and have no comparison) I've filmed shooting and you can easily hear people talking and the bullet hitting downrange. I realize 16 inch pistol length gas should be the most forgiving setup, and it's been flawless, a good starter combo. I haven't chrono'd mine, but my dealer said it was 950fps, but as he didn't tell me what the configuration was that's useless info. 
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Posted: 9/12/2020 12:53:55 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm new to the game and only have 1 but my dealer turned me on to a load that's been perfect. Rifle's a 16 inch, pistol gas AEM5 can. (yes, I had it made .30 cal.) Load's a Gallant 220gr coated over 10.8 grs. of CFE-BLK seated at 2.065". Stupid quiet, (again, I'm new and have no comparison) I've filmed shooting and you can easily hear people talking and the bullet hitting downrange. I realize 16 inch pistol length gas should be the most forgiving setup, and it's been flawless, a good starter combo. I haven't chrono'd mine, but my dealer said it was 950fps, but as he didn't tell me what the configuration was that's useless info. Welcome! Few thoughts: CFE-BLK is a good "middle of the road" powder. There are quite a few that are louder...but there are quite a few that are quieter too. All of them have a trade off of one kind or another. Also, CFE stands for Copper Fouler Eraser...not necessary for coated lead projectiles, but it won't hurt anything either. How did you determine your OAL? That sounds VERY short for the Gallant bullet. Mine are loaded to 2.220" - again, this won't hurt anything at subsonic pressures but if you run into any feeding/reliability issues this ~could~ be a cause for future reference. 300 BLK has a benefit of being ~relatively~ insensitive to barrel length in terms of velocity, so you're probably right where you need to be regardless. I would still recommend a chronograph. The fact that you are using "10.8 grains" to get to "950 FPS" is concerning as I use the same projectile and only need 9.2 grains of CFE-BLK (FX-120i confirmed) to get 1,050 FPS (LabRadar confirmed). |
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Posted: 9/12/2020 10:28:23 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you use N120 you won’t have cycling issues and is just as quiet. No...its not. Like at all. Night and day. I did months of experimenting with powders and seating depth. N120 quieter than cfe blk or 1680. H110 quieter than that. Vvn110 wouldn't cycle reliably at 2.050 with 190 noslers. Until I seated at 2.100. Conclusion was that all powder burnt before hitting g gas block. I eventually opened up coal to 2.150 for reliability. Functions great. Sound is...well can bet you've never heard blackout from a simi that quiet. Also I never trust burn rate charts. Have found lots of issues with them. |
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Posted: 9/12/2020 10:29:25 AM EDT
[#18]
Actually I see your in ohio. Welcome to come out to our range and I'd be happy to show you.
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Posted: 9/12/2020 11:10:10 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I always run my subsonics as low as I can get them to reliably cycle. Even "subsonic" bullets can create supersonic flow. You don't really get to true quiet shots until you're in the 900fps and below range. Go to 5:20, yay science!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPwdlEgLn5Qhttps://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/322543/images_png-1580758.JPG Love that channel. Transonic velocities also reduce your accuracy. |
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Posted: 9/12/2020 12:06:26 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No...its not. Like at all. Night and day. I did months of experimenting with powders and seating depth. N120 quieter than cfe blk or 1680. H110 quieter than that. Vvn110 wouldn't cycle reliably at 2.050 with 190 noslers. Until I seated at 2.100. Conclusion was that all powder burnt before hitting g gas block. I eventually opened up coal to 2.150 for reliability. Functions great. Sound is...well can bet you've never heard blackout from a simi that quiet. Also I never trust burn rate charts. Have found lots of issues with them. We can agree to disagree. You are the first person I’ve heard hold that opinion and it’s not an opinion that I find accurate seeing as how I’ve seen and heard them side by side. The problem with N110 is it produces very little gas so you need to keep them as close to the SoS without actually going over. N120 you can load as low as 850 FPS (maybe slower) and it will still cycle and doesn’t compromise on sound as N120 at 950 FPS and N110 at 1050 FPS are indistinguishable from each other sound wise in my personal, first hand experience. I will say LilGun is also a very quiet powder but burns dirty and is among the hottest burning powders out there. Hot enough that it melts copper bases even on 300 BLK Subs. I have a thread with pictures on this site actually. If you use N110 and are happy, that’s great, but I think most would agree N120 is the preferable powder for Subs. |
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Posted: 11/7/2020 1:43:54 PM EDT
[#21]
Well, I finally tested some .300 BLK "subsonic" loads this morning and to say that I was disappointed would be an understatement.
 AR-15 pistol Ballistic Advantage 8.5" barrel Blocked gas port so that I manually cycle the action SRT Arms Shadow 7.62 suppressor Temperature: 55 degrees Elevation: 750 feet Starline brass CCI #400 primers 9.7 grains of H110 Lehigh Defense Maximum Expansion 194-grain bullets I started off at 100 yards to get a zero with Barnes 110-grain "blacktip" supers, then moved up to 50 yards for the subs. Using my 100-yard super zero, the subs grouped very tightly a few inches below the 50-yard bullseye. I was very pleased with the group. What I wasn't happy with was the BOOM!!! These subs were just as loud as my supers, if not louder! What the heck happened? I didn't have a chronograph handy to check speeds. 
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Posted: 11/10/2020 3:51:18 PM EDT
[#22]
Really need to chrono them to see what they are leaving the barrel at.
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Posted: 11/10/2020 3:57:39 PM EDT
[#23]
9.5gr H110 220gr bullet here.
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Posted: 11/10/2020 5:45:29 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 9.5gr H110 220gr bullet here. I have three more test loads at 9.5 that I'm going to try when I get the time. |
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Posted: 11/11/2020 2:48:50 PM EDT
[#25]
6.4gr of N320 behind a 220gr Sierra RN does ~920fps out of a 16" single shot. I stopped shooting semi after hearing this setup. No action to cycle so the pistol powder does just fine.
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