Probably a stupid question - but I didn't see this discussed much since UPS got shitty about shipping firearm stuff.  How are y'all shipping stuff over to ECCO or back to a manufacturer for repair?  Are FedEx/USPS the only options now if you don't have a friendly local FFL who will ship?

Put it in a non-descript box and ship it from any of them 2 day overnight at least. Telling a courier what it is just makes it worse in my experience. Otherwise ask the recipient.

UPS: “What’s in the box.”

Me: “A tool”

UPS: “Can you provide details of the tool?”

Me: “Sure, it’s a noise attenuator”

UPS: “Gotcha, how much insurance you want on it?”

If you tell ups it's a gun they make you overnight it.

When did that change?  I shipped an integral MKIV back for RMA a couple months ago but I just said it was a firearm Incase I had to make a claim.

June, but they only just started enforcing it this month.  It's a pain in the ass, we're working with our UPS account manager to figure our the best way to deal with it.

Machine parts.

I boxed my suppressor up and printed a label my damn self. Then dropped it off at my local Michaels craft store for pick up.

Does this local-FFL-takes-possession thing have any implications for NFA stuff?

This
I know the insurance will be void

Unless something in general FFL rules has changed…?

I not sure what he is on about there..?
Firearms in for repair do not get logged into the shop inventory acquisition log book. They go in the repair log book. Under the name of the person that dropped it off.
The FFL can return the firearm back to the person that dropped it off without a 4473.
The FFL can can facilitate shipping to a repair facility.

The more broad problem is FFL’s not knowing or understanding they can facilitate NFA repairs without being NFA dealers. Most will simply bow out of being anywhere near it and tell the customer they have to find an NFA dealer.

A return Label from the manufacturer or repair service is going to be easier for the average person.
Or..ship through an NFA dealer.

I shipped a suppressor back to Smith and Wesson with a label they sent me. Boxed it up put it in the drop box at a hub.

This would seem like a good option if the receiving gunsmith is comfortable with it.  

I used UPS when I sent mine to ECCO ~6 weeks ago. I did it all online, declared I was shipping firearms and scheduled a pick up. Didn’t have any issues. Used an old Optics Planet box and wrapped them in bubble wrap.

This isn't exactly accurate.
If you have a firearm that needs repair, its perfectly legal under federal law to ship it using any carrier. Only the policies/tariffs of UPS and FedEx have changed, not federal law.
If you violate a USPS regulation you do violate federal law and there are criminal penalties.
If you violate a UPS or FedEx policy or tariff you don't commit a crime but risk the wrath of the carrier. They do not have to pay off on a claim for loss, damage, theft and can let your firearm sit in a damp closet in Florida for years because you didn't follow their rules.

While federal law allows you to ship a firearm to a licensee for the purposes of repair, and for the direct return of that same firearm OR a replacement firearm of the same type........"ownership" doesn't change. You can jut as easily take that firearm to any licensee, he ships it off for repair, its returned to your FFL and you pick it up from him. No 4473 or NICS required because its the return of a repaired or replacement firearm.

Your local FFL logging it into his books doesn't remove any ownership interest by the owner, its a record of the change of possession.

UPS has changed their firearm shipping policy since then.

Only an FFL enrolled in their FFL Firearm Shipping Program, not just any FFL.
They make you create a new account, you can only ship firearms using that account and a few other rules that make me choose not to use UPS again.



Yep

Maybe PSA will start a (pro2A) shipping company after the credit card and MP5…

What if I'm 100% truthful and tell them I'm shipping a muffler and it doesn't get flagged?

I think you left out 50% of the term.

I had a gunsmith offer to send out a pre-paid label. Wouldn't that fit under the rules, since technically the shipper (or the one handling the shipper) would have the firearm approved business account?

The party tendering the shipment is the shipper. The party receiving that shipment is the recipient.
Who pays for the label doesn't change anything.

If buried in the carriers terms of service is an allowance for a dealer with an approved firearm shipping account to send out his own labels I haven't found it. I have found terms that are very restrictive in how I am now expected to ship a firearm.

You can tell ups/fedex it's a computer or whatever, AFTER they pay the claim then file lost/stolen with ATF.  Fuck ups/fedex

^ Exactly.

Curious if the new policies differentiate “FFLs”. Would a C&R suffice to register with the carriers?

And if you also ship parts & accessories for firearms, you need yet another account.   We now have 3.   One for ordinary shipping, one for firearm parts & accessories, which they want us to use even for unregulated stuff like mounts/adapters or magazines, and one for firearms.

They've definitely gone full retard, but the blame is not 100% with the carriers.   This has been part of the admin push to hurt the entire firearm industry and community.   It's also why we have a helluva time finding insurance carriers, payment processors, web site hosts, etc.   I don't know how many different insurance companies either refused to carry us or wanted absurd premiums with all kinds of crazy clauses before our broker finally found a solid, fair one.   And thank goodness for people like Laura Morgan at Payroc and good, pro-2A people with private servers who will host websites for firearm retailers and manufacturers.

Much as the usual suspects still want their AWBs and taxes, they've found more creative and furtive ways to harass the entire industry and community.   I'm sure many of you are aware of the new card processing merchant category for firearms and ammunition, too.   Wasn't the major card companies who wanted this, they even pushed back, citing both card holder rights/privacy (It was Visa that said, and I'm paraphrasing, "we don't want to be a moral authority on legal goods"), and logistical complications from another category having to be tracked, but after a couple of times getting shot down, it was forced upon us.

Though I have no evidence of it, there's no doubt in my mind that the admin and/or agencies acting at it's behest, were wholly behind the new carrier policies.  And unfortunately, for as much revenue as firearms shipments generate, Amazon, WalMart, et al have created a situation where our industry doesn't contribute the percentage of revenue it once did, so their motivation to push back is limited or non-existent.    They may come to regret largely writing us off with those major retailers going more and more to their own delivery vehicles & drivers, but for now.....

Damn, guess I just beat the deadline. I should’ve bought a lottery ticket.

"UPS accepts packages containing Firearm Products for shipment only as a contractual service and only from Shippers who are licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code) to authorized recipients, as outlined in the approved UPS agreement for the transportation of Firearm Products."

https://www.ups.com/us/en/support/shipping-support/shipping-special-care-regulated-items/prohibited-items/firearms.page