The red is a stretch, I mean sure the ATF can try whatever they feel like on a given day to prosecute someone, but why worry about over analyzed hypotheticals.  

I own several AR SBRs and several non-SBRs.  Nothing but the law stops me from swapping uppers and lowers around and making illegal SBRs, does that mean since I own both I have intent to do so?  I don't worry about it and neither should you.

An AR lower with a stock but no upper is just a firearm, it's not legally a rifle.  That's what the law says, that's what the ATF has confirmed in several open letters, and it even explains it in the instructions on a form 4473.  If you made a good faith effort to remove the stock from the lower, and remove it from your possession before attaching a short upper, I would be very impressed if the ATF took enough liking to you to hem you up over it.

I agree that makes sense. Even more to the point how would they know? They’d have to seize records from my fro and wherever I bought my upper I guess. Seems unlikely. I’d wager there are hundreds of thousands of illegally made sbrs they don’t know about.

I think I’ll go the complete lower and upper route. Remove and relocate the stock and file form 1.

Now I just need to decide on length and what manufacturer. Thinking of going with PSA complete lower and upper. Maybe 11.5” or 12.5”

The only constructive intent or whatever they call it case I’ve seen mentioned was a guy getting arrested for other stuff that had the lower separated but placed near each other to the point where they felt it was clear that the intent was to put them together and roll. It’s not common.

If you are worried just buy the lower and submit the form 1. After approval get it engraved and order your upper and roll with it. Then at no point in time are you at jeopardy.

I’m not too worried. I’m doing my best to be compliant and have no intention on breaking the law.  I’m more worried about availability in the near future with the state of things. Hence my desire to have everything purchased and be compliant at the same time.


Even so how can the ATF know what you have ordered?

Because you made a thread on a monitored website about it I've never worried about the intent but I also have a pistol lower so there's always somethng I could slap a upper on. Do what you want but uppers aren't going to be banned in the time a Form 1 takes.

Exactly. My personal information is not public here so they’d have to get access to what someone has posted or actually purchased. That’s not public information. As I’ve stated here I intend to comply  with the law and have in no way stated otherwise.

I’m not worried about uppers being outlawed. I’m concerned with availability of many things.

How can this still be sold with a brace? I get it doesn’t have the lower but doesn’t that run into intent issues if you have a stripper lower ?

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-10-5-cl-5-56-nato-1-7-12-mlok-moe-ept-sba3-pistol-kit.html

Braces aren't illegal really and could be used as a stock. The brace decision could be overturned. Again intent is a super rare thing magnified mostly by internet peoples.

There are no "intent" issues.
You've either got "constructive possession" aka "possession," or you don't.

Basically, braces are now stocks. It's not illegal to sell an SBR AR kit with a stock.
It could be a complete MILSPEC 14.5" M4A1 parts kit with no receiver, but including all the select-fire FCG parts, and that would likewise still be legal to sell.

If you throw that and a stripped lower into your vehicle and drive around with it, you could be found in "constructive possession" of a SBR because there's no other way to assemble that "collection of parts".
ATF refers to this as "knockdown condition".

Also "knockdown condition" SBR.
Had he added an AR pistol (or just a stripped receiver or compete lower eligible to become a pistol) then they wouldn't be able to prove constructive possession.

The key difference is that there needs to be at least 1 way to assemble the "collection of parts" lawfully.

That works, but as long as you have at least one AR 16"(+) rifle upper and one AR pistol (or receiver which could lawfully become a pistol) then you can have as many "spare" AR parts with that stuff as you want. Just don't assemble it into an unregistered Title II (NFA) firearm.

If you want to F1 a SBR then do it. Stick with the above and buy all the parts you want. After approval, engrave and assemble like he said.

ATF does not monitor the internet looking for dudes buying complete AR lowers with stocks + short barreled uppers. Even if they did, how could they possibly know if you've already got a 16" upper at home or not?

I actually just had Laserworx in Pottstown engrave a lower on Saturday and I sent my SBR form1 in last night. In and out in 10 minutes. I would call ahead for an appointment.

I measured the OAL of a 16" gun and subtracted the difference between the barrel lengths for the 14.5" guns.

The XM177E2 clone, I just used the published number because it's an accurate clone.