I have a Fleming sear that is probably going to clear NFA jail in the next month or so and I am thinking I should add a few hosts. Right now I have an SP89 which came with the sear and I also have an SP5K which I’ve had for several years. I also have a TPM MP5 SD clone 2 stamper that’s also sitting in NFA jail as well. I’m trying to decide between a full size MP5 clone or a some version of an HK53/93.

On the one hand the 53/93 is appealing to me because it give me the option for a FA in 5,56 or maybe even 300 BO but I’m also concerned that my two k guns won’t be as practical in FA as a full size MP5 would be.

If I go the full size MP5  route what should I grab?  I’m thinking Dakota Tactical. I’m reluctant to go back to TPM since it took them like 8 months to ship my SD clone out. I don’t mind the length of time it took them to ship it but I do mind that for at least 5 months I was told that it would be shipping in a couple of weeks not several months.

Since we are living in crazy times, you probably won't have a list of guns to choose from.  Whatever you can find, at whatever price they are asking is what you will be able to choose.

...but you should get a standard MP5 first.

Sell one of the Ks you have, either the SP5K or SP89 and get a German full sized MP5 host.  Either an SP5 that goes off to MM for a full shelf add and carrier block removal (if you dont care about resale value) or a carrier with a bolt on trip from TSC (if they still sell them).  

If you can get enough out of the SP89 you might be able to come close to a stock HK94 but it will cost you another $1500 to bring it to MP5 spec.  (barrel swap, paddle install, remark/refinish)

Since you have 30K in a sear and with all the German full size options out there I wouldn't bother with a clone full size build.  Buy once cry once... and just get a full sized German MP5 host.   That will give you a German K, full size, and the TPM SD as you will want all three main variants eventually anyway.

My personal take on the best bang for the buck in the 5.56 realm is to get a German HK93 and have the 93 barrel cut back to 33K length, add the 33K LP, and also have the neutered HK93 sight tree swapped out for the correct 33 version with the grenade ring.  The 33K is a really nice shooting gun and is a bit more practical with a 12" barrel vs. the 8" barreled HK53.  (Although I love both)   Down the road you can have a paddle mag installed, the gun remarked/refinished, and if the mood and wallet suits you swap the barrel for a correct German 33K barrel.

German HK53s are a lot more expensive and difficult to build given the amount of new parts and work required.  

If you have to have a 53 on a budget, you could also have PCS build you a 53 clone using RCM parts or try and find a gently used Vector v53 pistol.  Both options will go bang reliably but won't be as nice as a converted 93 as they both start off with a US made flat and a mix of US and/or Malay parts.

For a full auto rifle caliber host the last gun I would personally consider is a boutique 300BLK roller locked gun given the cost to shoot 300blk at 700 to 800 rpm, plus the constant swap of LPs to switch between supers and subs.  

If you want a 300BLK ballistics type host to rock and roll with get the PTR 7.62x39 PDW or K gun.  I have both of them and they are a ton of fun to turn money into noise with.

Good luck and congrats on the sear.

No way I would spend the premium on Dakota. It’s a RCM parts gun for which they charge HK prices. If not going German HK, I would personally buy one of the RDTS clones where Ralph Jr takes an mp5 parts kit using a front end with intact magwell, then grafts it into the rear half of a LSC flat, properly Mills the optic mounting tabs.

The absolute best option is a Hk94 converted to mp5 sbr. But if you don’t want to spend that much, I think the RDTS is a great option.

You definitely need a full-size mp5.

My favorites are a full size Mp5 and HK-53 for sure!! But ya know collect them all, haha. Got a Mp5K and HK-91 and HK-93. The Mp5K is fun as a machine pistol with no stock. Sometimes use a shoulder holster rig with it. I hear the 7.62x39mm guns are fun too. Shorties seem to be more fun to me. Wouldn't mind a HK-21E or HK-23E belt fed either if I had the cash.

For my Fleming registered sear, I have an HK94 converted to MP5-N spec, an HK94 converted to “French” spec, and HKSP5k with an added paddle mag release and clipped and pinned trigger house. In addition I have an HK91 that was converted to the most current G3 specs. ALL the work was done by TSC. Mike and his crew are incredible. The shelf on the SP5k is slightly different from the HK94 so Mike made a minor modification to my trigger pack (not the sear itself) so that I could use it in all my hosts. I had the SP5k bolt welded and milled to full-auto profile by S&H at Mike’s recommendation. I also have an RCM bolt that runs flawlessly as well.

My personal opinion is that if I spent all the money for a registered sear, I wasn’t going the budget route for hosts. Buy once, cry once, that sort of thing.

There is a reason TSC only works on HK German factory guns and it is not because he is a snob.

I have to agree with this. My first and favorite.

My question to the OP is have to tried either of the host guns you are considering? Go to some machinegun shoots with good quality brass cased ammo. Most owners usually don't mind letting others shoot their guns, especially if they don't have to pay for it. A full size MP5 and a 53 are of similar size but are very different experiences.

A HK receivers are the best. Of course the best costs a lot of money. My brother had a SBR 53 host gun made from a HK93 receiver, a pristine 53 parts set, and was made by TSC Machine. My brother had $6,000.00 in it ten years ago. I would think that the market value of a shooter grade 93 has gone up by $1,000.00. And 53 parts sets are much more difficult to find. About three years later, I had a SW53 AR receiver put together with an excellent condition PD 53 parts set by Jeff at PCS. I have less than half of what my brother spent in it and it uses AR mags. So all my 5.56X45 machineguns use one mag system. Even cheaper than that is the Coharie Arms CA53 AR. I bought one around ten years ago for $1,250.00 plus shipping from Todd Bailey. Someday I will get around to making it into a 300 BLK OUT caliber host.

Certainly the HK received hosts are the best. But how much more do you want to pay? Yes there are good clones and not so good clones. I bought a CA5 SD for $1,450.00 including SS SD can. I replaced the MIMs bolt with a Rim Country stripped bolt and it has run great. You might have to put some work into a clone, but at more than 1/2 the market value of a HK receiver/parts set, you could buy a lot of ammo for the price difference. There is also the configurations. More than half of my 25 host guns are configurations that HK never made. 53K that uses AR mags, a .40W&W SD, or a 10mm K-PDW gun are some of my favorite hosts. YMMV.

Scott

ETA shortening a HK93 is HK33K specs is problematic. The HK 33K has a 1/7 twist barrel. The 93 barrel is the older 1/12 twist. The slower twist barrel needs more length to stabilize the bullet. I have heard of some not being happy with accuracy from a shortened 93 barrel.

HK made factory 33Ks with both 1:12 barrels as well as 1:7 (178 marked barrels as in 1 twist in 178mm).

HK also made HK93s in both 1:12 as well as 1:7 twist barrels.  If you want to cut down a HK93 to 33K length and want a 1:7 barrel, a prospective purchaser would need to find a later "42- prefix" HK93 in order to get one with a 1:7 barrel.  Also not all 42- prefix HK93s have 1:7 barrels so any future purchaser would need to verify twist rate either via a 178 mark on the barrel or scope the bore and look/measure the twist rate.

I don't doubt there are many sloppily cut down HK93 barrels out there where the barrel wasn't removed from the receiver prior to being cut and threaded and was instead just chopped and the muzzle/crown cleaned up and threaded with TAT style device potentially leading to poor accuracy   There are also folks out there who may have a 1:12 based gun and shoot heavier grain ammo out of it which is wasn't designed for and wonder why the accuracy is poor as well.

Just because a barrel is 12" long with 1:12 twist doesn't mean it will have inherent poor accuracy.   In the AR15/M16 world the XM177 guns have barrels even shorter than 12" and were also originally 1:12 twist.

Full size MP5 and then one of these...

https://ptr-us.com/product/pdwr-ptr-105/



I have an earlier version of the PTR and had to get a FA bolt carrier and special recoil rod for the stock as I recall. I also got one of the beltfed precision HK53 fore ends.

Well my sear was approved on January 10, 2021 so it looks like I’m going to need a full size MP5.  Anyone know where I can get one?

Is your sear loose, or in a pack?  Ambi, or SEF?

I'm a fan of SEF packs because they are simple, cheap, and don't really ever break.  Ambi packs are more Gucci, but cost 10 times more than SEF, and tend to be fragile.  What you may find is that it's easiest to fit a particular trigger housing to each host gun, and leave that housing with the same gun whether it has a semi pack, or your sear pack in it (I like to SBR my hosts to avoid accidental legal issues, and I figure it might as well be shootable when the sear pack isn't in it).

I don't think anybody has a secret reserve of guns at this point.... you're just going to have to figure out what you want, and how much you want to pay...then start looking.

This should be the beginning of the fun part, but you're getting it at the worst time in modern history to buy ammo.

The sear came with a pack with my SP89. Not sure if it’ll fit my SP5K or because I haven’t tried it out.  I know it’ll fit the SP89 because that’s what it came with. My intention is to get a trigger housing for all the guns and then just switch the trigger pack around. To be perfectly honest I’m not sure how to switch the sear around because I’ve never had one.

If you spent $30k-ish on a sear, I would suggest the following items below.

Its not the cheapest option but nothing sucks more than spending $30K on a registered HK sear and have a sub-par host gun that doesn't run worth a damn where you buddies can heckle you about the MP5 you bought that cost as much of a car but couldn't get through a mag without jamming.

Find an HK94 here:
https://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-Rifles/search?Keywords=hk94&PageSize=24&Sort=13&View=2&Ch-manufacturerName=Heckler%20%26%20Koch

add a navy front end:
https://www.gatewoodsupplyco.com/HK-MP5-N-Navy-Barrel-Front-End--9mm_p_429.html

plus a full auto bolt carrier:
https://www.gatewoodsupplyco.com/HK-MP5-Bolt-Carrier--9mm--F-Type_p_2168.html

and matching F recoil rod
https://www.gatewoodsupplyco.com/HK-MP5-Recoil-Rod-Assembly--9mm--F-Type_p_480.html

Followed by a trip to one of the following builders:  (depending upon preference and/or availability)

TSC, TPM, MM, or RDTS

Or here is one already done, this one by TPM is available (although they reused the HK94 barrel which wouldn't be my preference)

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/forums/index.php?/topic/19312-wts-hk-mp5-n-a3-sbr-by-tpm-outfitters-sear-ready-as-new-pics/

Not all Ambi packs are fragile or cost 10X an SEF.   You are probably thinking about the ambi burst packs, but even a burst pack isn't over $1000.

However, the regular "navy" 0-1-A ambi packs are IMHO no less robust than an SEF as they are basically an SEF with just a few extra parts to hold in the ambi selector lever.

They are a bit more than an SEF, but not 10X in cost.  The 0-1-A ambi's do give you the more modern pictogram/ambi look without all of the cost/complexity of the burst group if that is important to you.

That said there is nothing wrong with an SEF.  I keep one of my sears in an SEF, with the other two installed in an 0-1-A ambi/navy and the 3rd in a burst pack respectively.

I would (and did) go with this option minus the front end.  Had TSC do the work, and I couldn't be happier.  My friend has an HK94 done by them with a factory MP5N barrel, and there is really no difference between the reworked HK94 barrel and the Navy.

I would agree functionally yes... there is no difference 3 lugging an HK94 barrel vs. rebarreling with a factory HK barrel.

However, at least for me it will nag at you knowing the barrel was cut and an adapter soldered in place vs. the correct barrel.

I have my MP5 on the waitlist for TSC to rebarrel it with correct MP5-N barrel.   Ironically I had an agreement with Mike to send it in last summer but the first MP5-N barrel I got for the project wasn't to my liking as the lugs were a bit chewed up.   So I bought another front end from Gatewood, but it took him about a month to ship it to me due to hurricane cleanup.

I had it all boxed up and ready for Fedex when Tammy told me to hold it and not send it in as they were holding work to get through the beltfed backlog.

Trust me, the rational side of me completely understands how crazy all of this sounds.  Its a disease of some sort.

Not sure what the OP wants, but if you are going to the trouble for a HK94 to MP5 build, at least for me I would go with the factory correct barrel. (fully admitting it gets you nothing from a functional standpoint over a cut and adapter barrel other than a lighter wallet)

SP89s came with SEF packs, but people like to pimp them out, so it could have either.  If it has plastic selectors on both sides it's 'ambi'.  Metal selector on one side, SEF.

SP5s come with ambi packs/housings, so an SEF pack (if that's what you have) won't drop in.  You'll need an SEF K housing that is cut for an SP5K shelf, and a bolt carrier with the sear trip if you don't already have one of those...they are nerfed from the factory.

It all probably sounds like Chinese at this point, but you'll get it figured out.

Also, I disagree about spending giant money on factory HK sear hosts ($5 to $7k for a '94 last time I checked).  I think I'm up to 10 hosts, and none of them are factory HK.  Some of them needed some tweaking to run right, but the money savings is eye-watering.  I've tripled (or more) the number of hosts that I have for the same money, and I don't have to feel bad by melting the barrels out of them.  Just because I spent a shit-ton of money doesn't mean I'm not looking to stretch my shooting dollar.

...but it comes down to your budget, and what kind of experience you're after.  Are you a shooter, or a collector?

So I bought a stock HK 94.  Who should I send it off to to have it converted to an MP5.  Also should I form 1 it before I send it off?

I would call TSC Machine for your HK94.  They are the most sought after HK smiths currently building and command the highest resale value.  They only work on HK receivers and are regarded as the builders who get closest to HK factory specs.  I have 5 guns done by them and couldn't be more pleased.  I know they are currently limiting the amount of work they take in so YMMV but it's worth a call.
http://www.tscmachine.com/MP5F.html

As far as Form 1, you can do that and it's generally the fastest route.  Some gunsmiths (including TSC) will SBR the gun and Form 4 it back to you.  The upside to this is (allegedly) higher resale since your name/trust is not engraved on the gun but it typically takes longer.

Hk53 clones are smooth as glass.
But for practical fun get a ptr32. Cheap ammo, cheap mags, cheap gun. You wont regret if u blow it up or wear it out. Just blow away full auto and giggle till the cows come home.
Takes 75 round drums too.

Word on the street is that he's not taking any more work.

If you're flexing for the gram, make sure you go all German, and spare no expense.  Don't do mag dumps, because resale value.  Otherwise, buy a bunch of clones, and smoke 'em 'cause you've got em.

I've got an HK94 there right now.  As I stated, they are limiting the amount of work.

I wouldn't worry about a German 9mm.  Mag dumps aren't going to affect the resale value, in fact every single German host I have would sell for more today than I have in them.  Can't say the same for the two clones I own.

I wouldn't either, I was being facetious.

OP

I have (2) HK 53 hosts, one HK, and one Vector
The vector cost me all of 1200.00 with pinned suppressor on it
Form oned the V53, and it has been a champ.
It is amazing how controllable the HK53 (clone) is.
Think about getting an HK 91 (G3), and as others have said a full size MP5
The only host I have not used is the MM23, I was told I needed work on that to get it to run.  Will try at a later date.

Good luck OP

TSC, RDTS/RS jr, MM, or TPM (<-who also has a backlog/waitlist right now) are all good options for a HK94 conversion.    (I have guns from TSC, MM and TPM and have a MP5/10 being built by Ralph Smith Jr right now)

As mentioned above, TSC will probably command the highest resale price premium all other things considered equal.