I had to send two of my Dead Air cans back to the mothership - my Wolf 9sd and my Wolfman.  A while back, I had posted in the main Wolfman thread that I was experiencing a loss of accuracy as well as a can full of jacket fragments when shooting my Wolman on multiple different PCCs (3 lug or direct thread).  Since the problem didn't seem to occur with use of 124 gr NATO rounds, I suspected that it could be an issue with my subsonic ammo (Speer Lawman 147 gr).  There appeared to be some slight rubbing on the endcap, but no baffle damage.  My suspicion seemed to be confirmed by the fact that the same exact thing happened with my Wolf 9sd on multiple weapons.  I mean, what are the odds that both of my 9 mm suppressors would be similarly out of alignment? Since then, I had basically just been avoiding the use of the 147 gr rounds since 9 mm prices have gone through the roof.

Here's a pic of some of the jacket fragments:

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Fast forward to last week: I decided to purchase a Griffin Armament suppressor alignment rod (very nice tool btw) and check alignment.  Well, I take back anything negative I said about Speer's TMJ ammunition; both suppressors' endcaps were pressing firmly against the alignment when using both the direct thread and 3-lug adapters.  

Wolfman:

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Wolf 9sd:

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I will be the first to say that I am a huge fan of Dead Air.  I really appreciate Mageever's responsiveness in the forum, and his posts were a significant driving factor for me selecting Dead Air for nearly all of my cans.  That said, Dead Air QC has left a lot to be desired for me.  50% of my Dead Air products have had to be sent back under warranty (2 cans and a 3-lug adapter).  Fortunately, DA's customer service is top notch and had me squared away quickly.  They responded to my email within 24 hours with shipping labels.  After receiving the cans, they had them re-cored, blasted, Cerakoted, and shipped out in less than a day.  They gave my Wolf 9sd all of the Wolfman upgrades when rebuilt, which is great, but I do kind of miss the unique silver finish of the original Wolf.

For any of you wondering about the differences between the older BPI cans and the rebuilt cans from KGMade: Obviously, the rebuilt cans are now straight .  The welds look similar for the Wolfman; there is, of course, a noticeable change going from the welds of the older Wolf to the updated Wolfman rebuild.  As I think Mageever has mentioned previously, the new cans are coming with a flat black high-temp Cerakote finish (personally, I was fine with the older finish even if it did burn off when well used).  The new baffles have a bright silver finish in contrast to the goldish color I'm used to seeing with the 17-4 stainless.  As far as comparing the Wolfman to the rebuilt Wolf - they're nearly identical.  The rebuilt Wolf is just a bit shorter.

Overall, I'm just excited to have my cans back home safely and to know that I still have a usable case of subsonic 9 mm

Which hosts???

HK sp5 and B&T APC9.

Always nice to see a company taking care of its customers.
DeadAir

Glad they took care of you. I understand they are one of the top few in sales but the repetitive examples of poor quality control is concerning. I have two of their suppressor I’m waiting..guess the only thing to do is get them out at test them first thing to see if I got a lemon as well. Hopefully these issues have been improved with their new manufacturing facility. Does dead air test fire their cans before leaving the factory?  Surefire for example test fires every can before leaving the factory to ensure concentricity as well as POI change.

Obviously manufactures would never release comparative qc data ie return rates on their suppressors but it sure would make it easier to draw objective inferences.

Dead Air has one of the easiest warranty systems in place if you ever have to use it for your cans.  FWIW, I think 147 grain Speer Lawman fragments in cans though as I've had this recent experience, not to say that your suppressors weren't out of aligment.  

As I understand it Speer Lawman and CCI Blazer (also a Speer product) are plated projectiles, not properly jacketed.  If this is a good idea or not well.... several opinions on the subject.  Some say don't shoot plated projectiles through a can.  Others swear its not an issue.  I couldn't honestly say one way or the other.  Do your own research and see if its worth the gamble or not.  Best of luck.

I spoke with Speer's customer service by phone when I first had my issues. Per the rep I spoke with, Blazer is plated, and the bullets can shed the plating when shot out of longer barrels especially. He said that he wouldn't be surprised to see bullet fragments from Blazer in a suppressor. In contrast, the Lawman bullets have much thicker plating and should not cause an issue in PCCs with suppressors. Speer offered to test the ammo to rule out defects.

Have you had an opportunity to check the alignment rod on the new suppressors ?

Yep, here are the after photos.

Wolfman Rebuilt:

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Wolf Rebuilt:

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Good info, thanks for sharing.  Glad to see DA got your cans squared away.  Best of luck.  Go enjoy em.

That looks way better

@TulaneBME

I'm glad we got you taken care of!  That looks awesome.

I've similar issues with CCI Blazer and also Browning 147 gr.  It drove me insane because it was on prototype suppressors where I went through a YUGE round of testing and I was finding jacket material everywhere.  My assumption was that because the sound test results were great, the baffle stack must've been pushing bullets around and shaving jackets and my accuracy and grouping was horrible.  I wasted days chasing my tail and even started redesigning things before I finally shot unsuppressed and found the accuracy and precision was unchanged--it was the ammo all along.  Is there a word for being happy and pissed off at the same time?  Because I was that.



It hurts to see, I'll admit.  Especially when quality numbers lag actual sales by up to a year sometimes.  What that means is issues we corrected a year before are now being seen by customers.  It's good to note that our sales volume is massive right now, so some instances like this definitely float to the top.  We've probably been selling 2:1 what other major manufacturers were doing through most of 2020 and especially now as we're coming into our stride.  Production is up and quality is also up.  To give one little peak behind the curtain, our average output in 2020 was 3-4X what it was in 2019 with the old processes.  It's also good to note that we now live in a more virtual world than ever.  People turn to forums and facebook groups before even calling us.  I think it's because of the "community mindset" they get here, but it's also because it's a complex system they're dealing with and they want to figure it out and look for insights.  People are figuring out stuff like you're seeing here--bullets shed jackets and 9mm subs are wobblier than we think.  People are also figuring out that their barrel threads play an integral role in alignment.  We see a large percentage of suppressors that are returned due to alignment concerns, yet they check out very much in spec and it turns out to be the users host weapon or ammo.  We realize that's part of the ownership experience and we're happy to help people with that.  

It's also good to note that an improvement in quality and throughput is exactly why we changed manufacturing partners.  The Wolf-9SD and Wolfman from pre-2020 is a perfect example.  There are 14 welds and two threaded junctions that can have a massive impact on alignment.  The repaired can shown here by TulaneBME is a perfect example of current construction standards.  It's massively more controlled with improved quality measures as well.  I'm really big on "built-in" quality.  Like, controlling raw material parts to spec, controlling a process that yields super low heat input with high weld penetration, and then inspecting after to ensure it's within spec.  Let's just say our new processes are VERY controlled and dialed in at this point and there's now a good bit of inspecting after the fact as well.  Startup was a little rough because of the learning curve, but I'm super proud of the processes, people, and quality systems we have in place now for our suppressor production.  

Todd Magee
Dead Air Engineering

So what 9mm ammo does everyone recommend shooting through your suppressor? Supersonic and subsonic? Federal 115 and federal 147 are leaving jacket fragments in my obsidian 9 as well.

Frfr that's the question I want answered by @Mageever now that we have learnt this.

I reload 147gr FMJ over TruBlue on my Dillon XL650.

I was more takin factory ammo. Someday I’ll reload. I shoot around 30-40,000 rounds a year and I only buy factory. I do have buckets of my once fired brass.

I’m recommending you buy a Dillon and roll your own.

Anything.

I handload plated and FMJ rounds and shoot factory ammo (mainly Fiocchi 158 I stocked up on years ago but am almost out of and now some other random subs like AE suppressor eg. if I find some that are cheap).  

The only issue I have had was a couple endcap aperature grazes when the can had come loose while firinga and learning my can prefers being oriented on the booster at a certain position accuracy wise.  I’ve never had pieces of jacket or plating rattling inside it


What’s your host? My buddy just got an FN 509 with his Obsidian and its running Fiocchi and handloads like a champ.  Best sounding host+can combo I’ve ever heard




The time for that has long past lol

Beretta handguns and sp5 mostly. If I shoot 3-5 yards at paper I can see the little copper jacket pieces stuck in the paper. So I know it’s fragmenting

I’ve never had any problems with 147 grain Speer Lawman. It’s perceptibly louder than my plated 147 grain reloads using Tite Group. Try shooting them through an over-bored suppressor like an Obsidian 45.  If you don’t get fragments then I’d have to suspect the issue is stability. Some 9mm barrels are 1:16 twist and some are as tight as 1:10.

UPDATE:

We finally had a nice day of weather here in Texas.  So, I took both cans out for a test fire.  Both cans were mounted using DA 3-lug adapters.  The rebuilt Wolfman was installed on a B&T APC9, and the rebuilt Wolf was installed on an H&K sp5.  Both setups performed flawlessly.  Groups were tight and consistent and showed no significant POI shift compared to firing unsuppressed.  There were zero jacket fragments present in either can after 50 rounds fired each.  I'm a happy camper.

Thanks again to Dead Air for the stellar customer service and to Mageever for his input.  Thanks to Griffin Armament for making a precision tool at a more reasonable price than the competition.

What ammo? Also did you notice any difference in sound between the two in long? Since the wolf was rebuilt

Thanks - I knew I left something out.  I used Speer Lawman 9mm 147 gr TMJ, which is the exact same ammunition (from same case) that gave me issues prior to the rebuilds.

The comparison between the sp5 and the APC9 is something that I was really interested in as well now that the two suppressors can be assumed to be identical.  For additional info, both firearms are set up as SBRs using essentially identical B&T folding stocks.  So, the comparison is as fair as I can make it (disregarding barrel length differences, weight differences, etc.).  I was shooting without hearing protection for both setups.  The berm was approximately 25 yards away and slightly downhill.  I have a barn that sits approximately 70 yards beyond the berm and reflects the report back to the shooter.

Both setups were comfortable to shoot for me without hearing protection.  The sp5 was perceptibly quieter than the APC9 (both the initial blast at the ear as well as the echo heard from the barn).  However, in my opinion, it's not a significant difference from a practical standpoint.  As I mentioned before, neither setup was uncomfortable to shoot without protection, and I doubt my neighbors were disturbed more by one than the other.  I didn't mention to my wife that I would be shooting, and she was sitting in a room that overlooks the range.  She never noticed any gunshots.  There was a very light breeze and "gas in face" was not an issue with either setup. (I may not be the best observer of gas since my 300 blackout AR setup doesn't bother me at all either.)

The most notable difference between the two setups was actually not the sound suppression; it was the recoil impulse.  I guess you could say that the sp5 is "softer" shooting than the APC9, but that's not the way that I would describe it.  The recoil of the sp5 has a lower peak than the APC9, but it feels significantly more drawn out.  The APC9's recoil is sharp and quick.  For semiauto fire, I actually prefer the APC9.  The recoil is snappy, but I am able to get back on target quickly and predictably for follow-up shots.  I specify semiauto fire because I can see where firing both PCCs in burst or full auto as God intended might make the smoother recoil impulse of the H&K advantageous.

Overall, I love both setups.  Standing on the range, I would be hard pressed to truly pick a favorite.  Sitting on the floor now cleaning both, I would probably choose the APC9.  The sp5 is a fascinating weapon, and I would never part with it; but the APC9 is so simple and precise.  All of that said, I still have more fun shooting steel with my Nomad can on a 300 blackout AR.  I giggle every time.

Great to hear!  Thanks for the follow up and the great description of the two setups.  Very cool!

Todd Magee
Dead Air