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SBR FAQ (Page 16 of 27)
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I've searched and searched but can't seem to find a confident answer to this question:
Can a registered SBR be taken back to it's original unregistered non SBR form? Well after going back two pages I found my answer in this very thread 
Originally Posted By cerberus1:
Originally Posted By CavBoy1:
Know I'm going to catch some grief on this one, but... Once a lower is registered as an SBR, can it be unregistered? If so, how? Want to get a newer lower(better) and register that one. Want to sell my old one but probably won't be able to as long as it's registered SBR. Thanks. Yes, it can. Send a letter to the NFA Branch Office with your info relating to the SBR receiver, requesting that it be removed from the registry. Once you receive the letter acknowledging your request, the receiver may be sold as a non-NFA firearm. Someone should be along with the proper address and such. Hope this helps. BTW, you know the right thing to do is to just keep the SBR you already have, and register another. Cost will the come out same, and you can tell everyone here that you 'got both.' Win-win, friend!  Anybody have this address? |
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The problem with the letter above –– and with all individual ATF letters –– is that they only apply to the person to whom they are addressed, and cannot be introduced as evidence in a legal defense by anyone else.
So if you do exactly as the "acting chief" says in the letter above, ATF can still throw your butt in federal prison for the next decade. I use such letters as general guidance. But when there is an issue on which, over time, ATF has sent out letters with two completely different, opposing opinions, I play it safe and choose whichever seems least likely to put me in handcuffs. Your Mileage May Vary. Until ATF issues an official ruling to the public, or you see it published in the ATF NFA Handbook, it is not the law. 
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Originally Posted By tony_k:
The problem with the letter above –– and with all individual ATF letters –– is that they only apply to the person to whom they are addressed, and cannot be introduced as evidence in a legal defense by anyone else. So if you do exactly as the "acting chief" says in the letter above, ATF can still throw your butt in federal prison for the next decade. I use such letters as general guidance. But when there is an issue on which, over time, ATF has sent out letters with two completely different, opposing opinions, I play it safe and choose whichever seems least likely to put me in handcuffs. Your Mileage May Vary. Until ATF issues an official ruling to the public, or you see it published in the ATF NFA Handbook, it is not the law. Considering that this is indeed the sad truth - has there ever been a post or a thread with all the good questions like: the one above, the so called M16 Carrier etc etc? If not, perhaps there should be. I would not be above a copy/paste letter to the BATF with all the questions worth asking (questions with favorable answers that may be needed if an issue was to be pressed) so that I would have in my possession such a letter addressed to me. Taking the opposing opinions statement into account - perhaps several individual letters would be more appropriate? |
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I am under 21, and have been thinking about trying to register a lower I have as an SBR. Is this possible for people under 21? |
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Perfect. I remember reading over the Form 1, and age was on the checklist. Do I need to write a letter stating that I'm under 21? I recall it requiring you to write a letter explaining why you chose the "wrong" answer. |
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"Silly boy, tits are for kids!" -My GF.
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If I wanted to convert a pistol (e.g., Ruger Charger) to a SBR, is this the same procedure as just building a SBR from an existing rifle? Or does the fact that it used to be a pistol create a problem?
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"No man needs a reason to own a gun. He only needs the cash. " FrankSymptoms
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Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
Perfect. I remember reading over the Form 1, and age was on the checklist. Do I need to write a letter stating that I'm under 21? I recall it requiring you to write a letter explaining why you chose the "wrong" answer. I'm wondering this as well, as I'm considering buying a lower and sending in for the SBR stamp and buying the upper parts over time as I can afford them... |
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Originally Posted By tony_k:
The problem with the letter above –– and with all individual ATF letters –– is that they only apply to the person to whom they are addressed, and cannot be introduced as evidence in a legal defense by anyone else. So if you do exactly as the "acting chief" says in the letter above, ATF can still throw your butt in federal prison for the next decade. I use such letters as general guidance. But when there is an issue on which, over time, ATF has sent out letters with two completely different, opposing opinions, I play it safe and choose whichever seems least likely to put me in handcuffs. Your Mileage May Vary. Until ATF issues an official ruling to the public, or you see it published in the ATF NFA Handbook, it is not the law. Not saying that's not the case - but where does it say that 
Insane that other areas of law it would apply, yet in the world of teh ATF it doesn't. Even if it is the Exact Same Circumstances? |
Beware Panopticon.
®¿®
http://marylandshooter.com/ar15/junkOne.asp (funny pics)
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®¿®
http://marylandshooter.com/ar15/junkOne.asp (funny pics)
Thinking of an MI Rail? DON'T
http://marylandshooter.com/ar15/mi/mirailissue.asp
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Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
Not saying that's not the case - but where does it say that
Insane that other areas of law it would apply, yet in the world of teh ATF it doesn't. Even if it is the Exact Same Circumstances? Here's what the lawyers tell me: It has nothing to do with ATF; instead, it has to do with the general rules of evidence in criminal cases. Such a letter is a communication between two parties, neither of which is a party to the legal proceeding. Thus it is not admissible evidence. I believe it is the equivalent of hearsay evidence. If the ATF letter is addressed to you, OTOH, it is admissible in court in attempting to defend your actions. I do know that others have attempted to introduce such third-party letters and the prosecutors succeeded in getting them excluded. Since they thus never were introduced, they are not part of the case-law research. Because I prefer to err on the side of caution, I would never risk my ability to own firearms on the evidentiary question of third-party letters. Your Mileage May Vary. 
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| Q: I have read that you can notify the ATF of any changes of specs to the SBR, does this include length, and or caliber. eg: AR15 10.5" 5.56, the barrel is worn out, would you be able to notify them that you destroyed the barrel and will be replacing with a 9mm 6' barrel? I was only thinking this because the lower is the piece that is marked. would this require an additional stamp? Maybe this is a stupid question but it would help me out. |
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Originally Posted By sigbrown1297:
What do you have to do with the BATF when you move states when you own a SBR? I would like to know this as well. I want to build an SBR but I don't know how long I'll be staying in CT for and I was wondering if SBRs can be trasnfered from state to state due to a move and what the process is for such an occurrence. If it is a pain, I might just wait until I move out of CT to get an SBR. |
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Originally Posted By redfisher:
a factory SBR does not require engraving. You get the serial number from the source you are buying it from, and they transfer it to your local Class III FFL- and they to you The best advice I can give anyone think of a SBR is to contact a local (to you) Class III FFL, and let him get you through it. So could I take a stripped lower that I already own to my Class III FFL and somehow have him transfer it to me as a SBR? Or can the FFL only do this with a lower received directly from the receiver's manufacturer? |
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Originally Posted By Phil1712:
Originally Posted By sigbrown1297:
What do you have to do with the BATF when you move states when you own a SBR? I would like to know this as well. I want to build an SBR but I don't know how long I'll be staying in CT for and I was wondering if SBRs can be trasnfered from state to state due to a move and what the process is for such an occurrence. If it is a pain, I might just wait until I move out of CT to get an SBR. You must file a Form 5320.20 with BATFE, and wait for them to sign it and return it to you. They will only do so if SBRs are legal in your destination state. There is no charge for this. |
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Originally Posted By David14:
Originally Posted By redfisher:
a factory SBR does not require engraving. You get the serial number from the source you are buying it from, and they transfer it to your local Class III FFL- and they to you The best advice I can give anyone think of a SBR is to contact a local (to you) Class III FFL, and let him get you through it. So could I take a stripped lower that I already own to my Class III FFL and somehow have him transfer it to me as a SBR? Or can the FFL only do this with a lower received directly from the receiver's manufacturer? No. A dealer can only transfer to you an already registered SBR receiver. If you want to use your own stripped receiver, you must fill out all the paperwork yourself, using the info in this thread. |
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Originally Posted By tony_k:
Originally Posted By David14:
Originally Posted By redfisher:
a factory SBR does not require engraving. You get the serial number from the source you are buying it from, and they transfer it to your local Class III FFL- and they to you The best advice I can give anyone think of a SBR is to contact a local (to you) Class III FFL, and let him get you through it. So could I take a stripped lower that I already own to my Class III FFL and somehow have him transfer it to me as a SBR? Or can the FFL only do this with a lower received directly from the receiver's manufacturer? No. A dealer can only transfer to you an already registered SBR receiver. If you want to use your own stripped receiver, you must fill out all the paperwork yourself, using the info in this thread. Thanks. That's what I assumed, but wanted some verification. |
"No man needs a reason to own a gun. He only needs the cash. " FrankSymptoms
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Originally Posted By tony_k:
Originally Posted By Phil1712:
Originally Posted By sigbrown1297:
What do you have to do with the BATF when you move states when you own a SBR? I would like to know this as well. I want to build an SBR but I don't know how long I'll be staying in CT for and I was wondering if SBRs can be trasnfered from state to state due to a move and what the process is for such an occurrence. If it is a pain, I might just wait until I move out of CT to get an SBR. You must file a Form 5320.20 with BATFE, and wait for them to sign it and return it to you. They will only do so if SBRs are legal in your destination state. There is no charge for this. Thanks! |
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Originally Posted By f2:First thing you do it figure out who you want the NFA item shipped to, your local class III dealer. This is a crucial decision because your NFA toy will have to sit there for awhile and you need to trust this class III dealer.
Purchase the NFA item and have your class III dealer fax their class III and SOT to the vendor. The vendor will initiate the form 3 and send it to the BATFE, this will allow the transfer of the NFA item to your dealer. When you dealer gets it in, then you start the form 4 paperwork. Could I do this with just a stripped receiver (making it an SBR-receiver before it arrives at my dealer's), or does it need to be a complete SBR? eta - FFL says it's a no-go. |
"No man needs a reason to own a gun. He only needs the cash. " FrankSymptoms
| If I own a SBR, and want to take it to a neighboring state (that also allows SBR's), does that mean I need to file a Form 5320.20 every time I want to travel with my SBR? Or can I set up a Form 5320.20 to allow transport to a certain location (e.g., my dad's place) in that other state indefinitely? |
"No man needs a reason to own a gun. He only needs the cash. " FrankSymptoms
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Originally Posted By David14:
If I own a SBR, and want to take it to a neighboring state (that also allows SBR's), does that mean I need to file a Form 5320.20 every time I want to travel with my SBR? Or can I set up a Form 5320.20 to allow transport to a certain location (e.g., my dad's place) in that other state indefinitely? Not indefinitely, but you can file one for a period of up to 365 days. And you can do it in advance, so you could file one today for 3/6/10 through 3/5/11, and you also could mail one in tomorrow for 3/6/11 through 3/5/12, etc. |
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Originally Posted By tony_k:
Originally Posted By David14:
If I own a SBR, and want to take it to a neighboring state (that also allows SBR's), does that mean I need to file a Form 5320.20 every time I want to travel with my SBR? Or can I set up a Form 5320.20 to allow transport to a certain location (e.g., my dad's place) in that other state indefinitely? Not indefinitely, but you can file one for a period of up to 365 days. And you can do it in advance, so you could file one today for 3/6/10 through 3/5/11, and you also could mail one in tomorrow for 3/6/11 through 3/5/12, etc. Thank you. |
"No man needs a reason to own a gun. He only needs the cash. " FrankSymptoms
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Originally Posted By TannerB: Originally Posted By TannerB: My only question is that I live at a rent house, so I never know how permament my address will be. How would this affect me? Thanks Anyone? Registrants do not have to obtain permission from ATF to move a silencer or “any other weapon” interstate. However, if a registrant’s address for these types of firearms changes after registration with ATF, please notify the NFA Branch in writing of the new address, so the NFRTR can reflect the registrant’s correct address. Source |
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Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
The CLEO can be a problem when it comes to getting the signature. If that happes there are other people that can sign such as the local DA, Judge, Sherif, etc. Random question –– Could a state legislator (a pro-RKBA senator, for instance) sign this? |
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Originally Posted By David14:
Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
The CLEO can be a problem when it comes to getting the signature. If that happes there are other people that can sign such as the local DA, Judge, Sherif, etc. Random question –– Could a state legislator (a pro-RKBA senator, for instance) sign this? Not AFAIK. The CLEO requirement was set back in 1934, prior to the days of NICS checks, to ensure that no one under criminal investigation would be approved. So acceptable signers were top-level officials in the applicants jurisdiction who would know about the applicant's character and history, or could find it out. So police chiefs, sheriffs, criminal-court judges, district attorneys, etc., top the list. State attorney generals are acceptable, as are state-level top cops (head of the state police). I know of instances where ATF has accepted the signature of the FBI SAC in the jurisdiction, too. I believe that regional agents-in-charge for ICE also are acceptable. but I don't know of one who has done so. But in all of the above cases, it must be either law enforcement or criminal judicial system (DAs, judges) officials, and it must also be the chief of that agency/level, or a designated staff member. Edited to add: And yes, ATF has been sued to accept a NICS check in lieu of a CLEO signoff. The federal courts ruled you must still get a CLEO signature.
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Originally Posted By 5R_milspec:
is the check made out to "Department of Justice" or "Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" for a form 1 sbr? Either way, doesn't matter. They will cash it regardless. But FWIW, I always write the item's serial number in the memo line of the check. |
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| If I were to purchase a lower from larue tactical could I use it for a SBR? Also, can I go ahead and purchase the 12" upper before I get my stamp? If I have read correctly I can as long as I don't assemble the lower and attach it to the upper(note: I currently don't own any other rifles). Finally, will I be able to use a collapsible stock on this rifle? The whole pre-ban/post-ban thing has me a little confused. Thanks!! |
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Originally Posted By webcarr:
If I were to purchase a lower from larue tactical could I use it for a SBR? Also, can I go ahead and purchase the 12" upper before I get my stamp? If I have read correctly I can as long as I don't assemble the lower and attach it to the upper(note: I currently don't own any other rifles). Finally, will I be able to use a collapsible stock on this rifle? The whole pre-ban/post-ban thing has me a little confused. Thanks!! Yes, buy your larue lower (or any lower) and do a form 1 and engrave the lower. There is no problem buying the upper too. Just keep it seperate. You have no criminal intent, and its legal to buy and own. There are other uses for a 12" upper than an NFA weapon. If you really dont want to be in possetion of the upper than give it to your FFL, but he will tell you the same thing. Yes, collapsable stocks are fine. You measure the total length with it out and extended. Once your stamp gets back, assemble and have fun. |
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Going to order a lower and get it engraved prior to anodizing. I wanted to get a consensus on the engraving before submitting and ask a question. Does the name have to be mine or can it be the name on my DBA that's on file with the county (ie. Hippie Slappers, LLC)?
ex. Hippie Slappers, LLC Nohippiesville, TX or does it have to be... J. Smith Nohippiesville, TX Also, I can't get a straight answer on the serial number. Since I'm putting it together from parts, some have said I use a new serial number while others say to use the existing serial number. Any clarification? I have seen some that look like this... J. Smith Townsname, TX 0000001 It's legal and has a stamp...but I've seen others that are like this.... J. Blow Town, TX |
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Originally Posted By Nefarious7907:
Do I have to file a Form 5320.20 if the range I intend to fire my SBR at is just across state lines? Thanks Im sure, legaly, you have to. I doubt there is a provision in the NFA about living close to a state line. Call NFA 304-616-4500 and ask. |
| Has anyone mailed in their form 1 certified mail? Will they take it that way? Or at least return receipt requested? |
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Originally Posted By tymbo:
Q: I have read that you can notify the ATF of any changes of specs to the SBR, does this include length, and or caliber. eg: AR15 10.5" 5.56, the barrel is worn out, would you be able to notify them that you destroyed the barrel and will be replacing with a 9mm 6' barrel? I was only thinking this because the lower is the piece that is marked. would this require an additional stamp? Maybe this is a stupid question but it would help me out. I have same question. I already have an SBR registered as 5.56 and 10.3' barrel. Can I use a shorter barrel and / or change caliber to 9mm?? |
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Originally Posted By Mike_G:
Originally Posted By tymbo:
Q: I have read that you can notify the ATF of any changes of specs to the SBR, does this include length, and or caliber. eg: AR15 10.5" 5.56, the barrel is worn out, would you be able to notify them that you destroyed the barrel and will be replacing with a 9mm 6' barrel? I was only thinking this because the lower is the piece that is marked. would this require an additional stamp? Maybe this is a stupid question but it would help me out. I have same question. I already have an SBR registered as 5.56 and 10.3' barrel. Can I use a shorter barrel and / or change caliber to 9mm?? I asked about how to have multiple calibers and barrel lengths, and this is the response I got from the ATF via email: When submitting an ATF form 1 you must dedicate a caliber and barrel length. After approval you can request multiple calibers .
Doesn't really tell me HOW to do that, although I recall hearing something about amending a Form 1. Looking into the paperwork required. |
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Originally Posted By tony_k:
Originally Posted By 5R_milspec:
is the check made out to "Department of Justice" or "Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" for a form 1 sbr? Either way, doesn't matter. They will cash it regardless. But FWIW, I always write the item's serial number in the memo line of the check. I made out the money order I sent in to "Department of the Justice", following the directions that are actually printed on the Form 1 to the letter. We'll see how that odd wording works out.
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Question
In this thread there have been a few that stated a conversion of a pistol to rifle with barrel >16" prevents it being converted back to pistol configuration without going through SBR paperwork. I heard AR15s are a special case according to the ATF, but I thought conversion from title 1 pistol>rifle>pistol was good as long as no stock on without the >16" barrel? I thought I would ask here as this is the proper forum for these type of questions. |
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I have an 11.5" upper with proper Form 1 and tax stamp. On this particular Form 1 I filled in the barrel length as 11.5". Now I want to build a 12.5" ar and was wondering if I needed to fill out another Form 1 for it, or could I use the Form 1 I have all ready? Cheers, John. |
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My timeline...
Sent paperwork - Aug 26th Check cashed - Sept 9th Pending - Sept. 22nd Approved - Oct. 21st Papers in hand - DAMN YOU USPS BRING IT!!!!!! Oct. 29th still waiting. I expect the papers by the end of next week and I also submitted mine as a trust with multiple calibers listed on my form. |
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BEAR means I've got it right here on me.
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED means Fuck You. Drive safely.
_|o[____]o
[1---L-OllllllO-
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SBR FAQ (Page 16 of 27)
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