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Posted: 4/9/2020 4:48:09 PM EDT
I picked this 2012 SA M1A Scout Squad and was wondering what type of red-dot owners were using.
Anything that co-witnisses?  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/9/2020 10:04:47 PM EDT
[#1]
My Scout squad is on the way to my FFL for pickup. Can't wait. From what I've read, the only way to absolute cowitness is to put on an ultimak rail, but I've only been researching for a few days (since I bought the M1a)
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Posted: 4/9/2020 10:21:17 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: I picked this 2012 SA M1A Scout Squad and was wondering what type of red-dot owners were using. Anything that co-witnisses? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/88145/DSCN9874__2__JPG-1359253.JPG I’m an AR guy, love red dots I wouldn’t change a thing on that sexy piece you have there! |
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Posted: 4/9/2020 10:49:12 PM EDT
[#3]
Vortex Crossfire II with a Laure mount.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 4/10/2020 7:31:14 PM EDT
[#4]
I had an 2X Aimpoint on one then switched to a 2-7x HiLux scout scope. You would have to replace the factory rail with an Ultimak or M14.CA rail and use a low ring or mount to get co-witness out of most red dots.
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Posted: 4/11/2020 10:23:13 AM EDT
[#5]
Mine has an Aimpoint PRO in an Aimpoint 30mm low mount, mounted on an Ultimak rail. It cowitnesses with the iron sights.
(However, since the factory forward rail is slightly taller than an Ultimak, I'm not sure if the same optic combo will cowitness on that.) 
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Posted: 4/11/2020 12:29:44 PM EDT
[#6]
My mag-fed Mini-G carbine wears an Ultimak forward rail with a Sig Romeo5 RDS attached on a ADM Q.D. mount. It's similar to BWood's set up above.
The Romeo5 is small and light, which is what I wanted in order to keep the front end from getting too weighty. Tough little unit too. Zero has stayed true and no issues with it after 600-rds. Plus it wasn't terribly spendy as I recall. I believe I bought it from Brownells on sale a couple years ago. |
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Posted: 4/11/2020 12:38:19 PM EDT
[#7]
I’ve tried 3 different times to use red dots on my scout, an M2, a doctor optic, and a primary arms, I keep going back to irons.
YMMV. When I mounted the M2 I used a large low mount ring (one of a pair) and it worked well, but I missed the ease and joy of using the iron sights. |
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Posted: 4/12/2020 10:04:52 AM EDT
[#8]
How is the cheek weld on those M1a's with red dots? They look like they sit quite high.
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Posted: 4/12/2020 11:45:27 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How is the cheek weld on those M1a's with red dots? They look like they sit quite high. Mine uses the same cheek weld as using irons (since the irons and red dot cowitness...) |
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Posted: 4/12/2020 12:32:31 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How is the cheek weld on those M1a's with red dots? They look like they sit quite high. Without switching to the Ultimak it's a little high. That's partly why I keep getting back to iron sights. |
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Posted: 4/12/2020 5:56:25 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mine uses the same cheek weld as using irons (since the irons and red dot cowitness...) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How is the cheek weld on those M1a's with red dots? They look like they sit quite high. Mine uses the same cheek weld as using irons (since the irons and red dot cowitness...) That aimpoint co witnesses? It looks like it would sit high in the pictures. |
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Posted: 4/12/2020 5:57:36 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Without switching to the Ultimak it's a little high. That's partly why I keep getting back to iron sights. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How is the cheek weld on those M1a's with red dots? They look like they sit quite high. Without switching to the Ultimak it's a little high. That's partly why I keep getting back to iron sights. Thanks. |
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Posted: 4/12/2020 9:54:54 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That aimpoint co witnesses? It looks like it would sit high in the pictures. Yep. Lower 1/3rd cowitness. With the dot centered in the middle of the optic, the dot sits right at the top center of the front sight hood (on the SEI gas lock front sight). You're looking just over the top of the rear sight aperture, which sits below the Aimpoint's field of view. You can then drop your cheek weld by a fraction of an inch, to look through the rear aperture, which brings the dot down to sit on the tip of the front sight post in the lower 1/3rd of the Aimpoint's field of view. It's a great setup. Very handy and instinctive on target. |
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Posted: 4/13/2020 9:04:28 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. Lower 1/3rd cowitness. With the dot centered in the middle of the optic, the dot sits right at the top center of the front sight hood (on the SEI gas lock front sight). You're looking just over the top of the rear sight aperture, which sits below the Aimpoint's field of view. You can then drop your cheek weld by a fraction of an inch, to look through the rear aperture, which brings the dot down to sit on the tip of the front sight post in the lower 1/3rd of the Aimpoint's field of view. It's a great setup. Very handy and instinctive on target. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That aimpoint co witnesses? It looks like it would sit high in the pictures. Yep. Lower 1/3rd cowitness. With the dot centered in the middle of the optic, the dot sits right at the top center of the front sight hood (on the SEI gas lock front sight). You're looking just over the top of the rear sight aperture, which sits below the Aimpoint's field of view. You can then drop your cheek weld by a fraction of an inch, to look through the rear aperture, which brings the dot down to sit on the tip of the front sight post in the lower 1/3rd of the Aimpoint's field of view. It's a great setup. Very handy and instinctive on target. Ok. I wish I had one to take a look at. |
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Posted: 4/17/2020 11:37:29 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mine has an Aimpoint PRO in an Aimpoint 30mm low mount, mounted on an Ultimak rail. It cowitnesses with the iron sights. (However, since the factory forward rail is slightly taller than an Ultimak, I'm not sure if the same optic combo will cowitness on that.) https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/qdFI4r.jpg It won't. It also won't with something as low as a T-1. Probably one of the more elegant systems was/is the Midwest mount that replaces that rail and includes ears to protect the micro-dot. It does allow a comfortable cowitness. The charger guide mounts are pretty cool but I have never used one. Any of these rails are quite good at transferring heat from the barrel to your optic. |
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Posted: 4/17/2020 4:52:23 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any of these rails are quite good at transferring heat from the barrel to your optic. I think that issue is overblown. I have three rifles with Ultimaks: a Krebs AK-103K, a Ruger Mini-14, and this M1A. I also have a Vz-2008 with nearly identical style of gas tube/barrel clamp forward rail made by a different manufacturer. The AK wore a cheap Bushnell TRS for several years, and now has a Primary Arms Advanced. The Mini-14 wears a Primary Arms Micro. The Vz. 2008 has a Primary Arms Micro. And the M1A has the Aimpoint PRO, as seen above. None of them have suffered any sort of heat-related issues, even the really cheap Bushnell optic, and that one has likely been the hottest of them all. Granted, I'm not blowing 300 rounds of rapid fire multi-mag dumps in one fell swoop, or rocking back-to-back magazines on full auto, so there is likely some upper limit where the optic does eventually start to cook (along with wood stocks, plastic handguards, etc.). But even with extended "normal" semi-rapid shooting, where the rifle starts getting uncomfortably hot, optics do just fine on an Ultmak in my experience. |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 10:50:38 PM EDT
[#17]
Rougue - what rail do you have on that m1a? is that a scout? mine is awaiting shipment to my ffl - can't wait, love the looks to swap out the brown top cover - pls send a link thanks!
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Posted: 4/19/2020 7:40:12 AM EDT
[#18]
http://ultimak.com/m8.htm
Yes, it's a Scout-Squad, modified with an Ultimak rail, Smith Enterprises gas lock front sight, and AAC Blackout flash hider. |
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Posted: 4/19/2020 12:46:35 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think that issue is overblown. Agreed, but worth bringing up I think. I discovered that you can get a T-1 hot enough to burn your finger and it will still work. |
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Posted: 4/19/2020 7:47:39 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: http://ultimak.com/m8.htm Yes, it's a Scout-Squad, modified with an Ultimak rail, Smith Enterprises gas lock front sight, and AAC Blackout flash hider. Thanks! I just ordered one, Brownells had in stock. I just bought a Leupold vxr Patrol but may return for the Aimpoint Pro. Thanks again, I like your style! What Vickers Sling did you order? I will have to research if I can swap the muzzle break out, I am in Mass so I am sure there is a rule against a flash hider. |
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Posted: 4/19/2020 8:01:39 PM EDT
[#21]
That's a Blue Force Gear padded VCAS sling. The front and rear sling attachments are from somewhere else, though... I don't recall the maker. Specter Gear, perhaps?
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Posted: 4/19/2020 8:07:47 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve tried 3 different times to use red dots on my scout, an M2, a doctor optic, and a primary arms, I keep going back to irons. YMMV. When I mounted the M2 I used a large low mount ring (one of a pair) and it worked well, but I missed the ease and joy of using the iron sights. I believe that the M-1A is the best Iron Sighted rifle that the Almighty himself has Graced us with.... Just love to shoot that bitch bareback...  BIGGER_HAMMER 
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:24:44 AM EDT
[#23]
 I ditched the Scout rail and went with the Sage stripper clip mount. I'm using a Burris Fast Fire 3 |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 1:14:09 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I believe that the M-1A is the best Iron Sighted rifle that the Almighty himself has Graced us with.... Just love to shoot that bitch bareback... BIGGER_HAMMER Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’ve tried 3 different times to use red dots on my scout, an M2, a doctor optic, and a primary arms, I keep going back to irons. YMMV. When I mounted the M2 I used a large low mount ring (one of a pair) and it worked well, but I missed the ease and joy of using the iron sights. I believe that the M-1A is the best Iron Sighted rifle that the Almighty himself has Graced us with.... Just love to shoot that bitch bareback... BIGGER_HAMMER I tried my SOCOM 16 with a red dot, but I just didn't like it. By some strange miracle, I shoot it pretty well with irons. (BTW, I wish you had a wood stock for sale since I need one and I'm local.) |
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Posted: 4/22/2020 12:36:24 PM EDT
[#25]
Does anyone make a stripper clip mount that works directly with a trijicon RMR? Or would a riser be needed to co witness anyway?
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Posted: 4/22/2020 12:50:38 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does anyone make a stripper clip mount that works directly with a trijicon RMR? Or would a riser be needed to co witness anyway? No. Unfortunately. The closest you can get to one of those is the one that comes with the M1A CQB and the only way you can get that is you have to buy the damn rifle because Springfield will not sell the mount. And it only fits the vortex Venom I have plans on taking the extra Sage mount that I have and milling out a pocket in it to fit a something like a fastfire, a Venom or a RMR. By doing that I can delete the Picatinny mount and attach it directly to the stripper clip mount I just need the time to get over to my dad's hot rod shop and use the milling machine |
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Posted: 4/24/2020 10:02:56 PM EDT
[#27]
I put an ancient eotech (2004) on my Socom 16. Seems to line up pretty good with the cheap voodoo cheek riser.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 4/28/2020 11:53:29 PM EDT
[#28]
Anyone have any pics with a Scout & CQB stock setup?
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Posted: 4/30/2020 7:28:44 PM EDT
[#29]
Rogue, do you know/did you try it with the original rail to see if same scope and mount can co witness? I think it may be close. Trying not to add weight with that ultimak rail.
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Posted: 4/30/2020 7:58:26 PM EDT
[#30]
I tried a Vortex crossfire but did not care for it. I ditched the mount and put a new handguard on it. I will stay with irons.
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Posted: 4/30/2020 9:36:53 PM EDT
[#31]
I killed the Eotech with my Socom 16
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Posted: 4/30/2020 10:44:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Is it the AA battery version?
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IGotShot: Rogue, do you know/did you try it with the original rail to see if same scope and mount can co witness? I think it may be close. Trying not to add weight with that ultimak rail. Anyway, so I just ordered an Aimpoint PRO and a pair of Leupold quick release low rings, I'll use 1 to mount the Aimpoint to the stock scout model rails. From my research and estimation, I should be able to barely see the iron sights through the Aimpoint-- I guess you can call it cowitness when you can see it. I will report back. |
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Posted: 5/1/2020 8:31:16 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IGotShot: Rogue, do you know/did you try it with the original rail to see if same scope and mount can co witness? I think it may be close. Trying not to add weight with that ultimak rail. Reports from elsewhere are that it will not cowitness, but I do not know for certain. Never tried it myself. |
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Posted: 5/1/2020 3:05:46 PM EDT
[#34]
Yeah AA version batteries were not the problem.
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Posted: 5/1/2020 3:10:57 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: I picked this 2012 SA M1A Scout Squad and was wondering what type of red-dot owners were using. Anything that co-witnisses? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/88145/DSCN9874__2__JPG-1359253.JPG  MUCH BETTER |
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Posted: 5/1/2020 7:33:22 PM EDT
[#36]
I was looking at the rail on my scout model. Springfield or anyone can easily make a shorter/less thick rail so scopes can cowitness-- not sure why they had to make the rail so tall. If you need optics clearance, you can just get taller rings, but you can't get shorter rings...
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Posted: 5/2/2020 8:52:34 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Miami_JBT: I took mine off and replaced the upper handguard without the cutout. It looks like this.... https://s3.amazonaws.com/mgm-content/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2018/01/28/7889875_01_springfield_m1a_scout_squad_640.jpg MUCH BETTER Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Miami_JBT: Originally Posted By 1srelluc: I picked this 2012 SA M1A Scout Squad and was wondering what type of red-dot owners were using. Anything that co-witnisses? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/88145/DSCN9874__2__JPG-1359253.JPG https://s3.amazonaws.com/mgm-content/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2018/01/28/7889875_01_springfield_m1a_scout_squad_640.jpg MUCH BETTER That is a beautiful rifle. |
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Posted: 5/2/2020 12:14:58 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IGotShot: I was looking at the rail on my scout model. Springfield or anyone can easily make a shorter/less thick rail so scopes can cowitness-- not sure why they had to make the rail so tall. If you need optics clearance, you can just get taller rings, but you can't get shorter rings... It’s likely because it’s a heat sink, since it’s attached directly to the barrel. They went with more mass to dissipate better. They also needed it to finish above the handguard. The lower mounts replace the handguard completely and minimize contact with the barrel. |
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