I deprimed and wet tumbled my first lot of once fired brass, and now I'm ready to start doing some real reloads.

Currently have the following once fired:
Hornady LRP, Peterson SRP & Norma LRP
Most of it is the Norma and Peterson.

I have the following powders that will work:
Staball 6.5
H4350
Varget
Staball Match

Bullets:
140 ELDM
147 ELDM
130 Berger OTM
136 Scenar-L

I need to decide where to begin...

-ZA

I'd start easy first.

LRP Hornady brass.  140gr ELDM. H4350.

H4350 is a workhorse for the 6.5.  It just works well under most projectiles in this caliber.  

If you can get your hands on some 140gr Berger Hybrids, you should try those.  Definitely worked well in my rifle for longer range shooting (1k-1300).  Seemed to hold course and buck the wind better as the velocity drops off at distance.

Varget is a little bit too fast for 6.5 mm.  I'd say drop it from consideration unless all else fails (H4350 won't fail you).

Which primers do you have?

Start with the best 140 gr bullet you have.  That is likely either a Lapua or a Berger.  

I'd start with the Norma LRP brass.




Peterson brass
H4350
136 Scenar-L seated 0.020" off the lands.


Go from there.

Fixed your powder selection for you :)

If a charge somewhere between 40.7-41.6gr of H4350 and the 140 eld’s (2.800 coal, don’t have my BTO notes handy) doesn’t group great, I would be shocked. Seriously, if that combo doesn’t work it’s either your shooting or reloading technique. It’s the easy button for 6.5creed. Somewhere in the 41.8-42.5gr range would probably be the sweet spot for the 130AR hybrids. I’ve never used Peterson brass in my gassers because of the damage the cycling produces, but those ranges work great with Hornady brass (the Min charges I’ve listed are slightly reduced to acct for Peterson having potentially less case volume).

Good luck

Yep.  The 140 eldm, 41.6gr, 2.81 is what my rifle likes.

I liked the 130gr for my semi-auto out to 900 or so, not as much in my bolt gun where I can load longer with heavier projectiles.

Got out and shot a round of ladders with the 140 gr ELDM with Hornady brass (once fired, resized on a Redding die and hit with a turning mandrel), CCI #34 and StaBall 6.5 powder. Nice results. Very pleased with this rifle, it seems very easy to load for and very easy to shoot well. Hell of a combo for a large frame gasser….

No real signs of pressure on that 44.0 gr load so I think I may do a seating depth trial on it to see if the groups will tighten up further.

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Lookin' good!

There is a bit of vertical stringing in the groups.  Is that you or the load/rifle?

I think it’s 100% me today. Almost everything I shot today had vertical stringing!

Made up some ladders using the Lapua Scenar-L 136 gr bullet with H4350 and Staball 6.5
Pretty pleased with the results… this rifle is like an easy button… I wish all of mine were like it.

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Got more test ladder loads made up…. 5 each.

136 Scenar-L with the Peterson brass and REM 7.5
H4350 charges at 42.0, 42.2 and 42.4

130 Berger OTM Hybrid with Peterson brass and REM 7.5
H4350 charges at 41.5, 42.0, 42.5, 43.0 and 43.5

147 ELDM in Norma brass with CCI BR-2 LR primers
Staball 6.5 charges at 41.5, 42.0, 42.5, 43.0 and 43.5


I need to shoot up more of my Hornady and Norma factory loads… I need that brass!
I may do a trial of the factory ammo unsupressed vs suppressed Saker vs suppressed SDN6 group size vs POI shift just to log in my notes, that would be worthwhile and should eat ammo!

ZA

Results from today… it was windy and blustery and I was shooting directly into the sun. It’s been so bad my last few trips, I bought a NightForce sunshade to cut down on the glare. Talk about eye strain!

Little bit of vertical stringing on the 147 ELDM group (first ladder set) as I was still kinda getting settled in. 42.5 gr looks like a keeper!

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Next was the 136 Scenar L, followed by the 130 Berger OTM ladders…

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The 42.0 gr on the 136 Scenar-L was my best load in the first 136 ladder set, this pretty much confirms it.

I was a little disappointed in the 130 OTM sets, but my eyes were struggling by this point and the wind had kicked up, so maybe the groups are better than I think they are. I’m going to focus on the 43.5 gr charge and do some experimentation… maybe 43.3, 43.5 and 43.7 and see what it looks like.

Loaded up some more tests with the H4350 and the once fired Peterson brass using the 136 Scenar-L and the 130 Berger OTM.

On the 136 Scenar set it’s really just 10 confirmation rounds using once fired vs. 5 rounds in virgin brass to see if there are any differences.

On the 130 OTM, I made up 5 each at 43.3, 43.5 and 43.7.
Factory 130 Factory Berger ammo was 2831 fps with SD @ 7.2….. that’s real close to the 43.0 charge weight results.

Made it out to test the 130 Berger OTM with H4350 and got better results. I also tried using my existing 42.0 gr load of H4350 with the 136 Scenar-L in virgin Peterson brass instead of once fired (I was basically out of once fired).

Here are the results… I forgot to measure up the groups of the OTM loads, but they are in the .6”-.7” range…

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I also was going to do a suppressor test where I was going to see how many mils of drop my 7.62 Saker and my SDN-6 had on this rifle. I only made it through the Saker, as I was trying to remove it my muzzle brake came loose and that was that. I brought it home and cleaned the brake and the muzzle threads real good and slathered it in rocksett, then torched them together (my heat gun died on me). It was looking like a 1.1 mil drop on this one test I got in, which is about what I remember.

Anyway, I’ll finish the suppressor testing in my next range trip and have plans to test the 142 SMK and do more testing of the 130 OTM and the 147 ELDM.

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Finally got back out with the 6.5 yesterday!

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The 142 SMK looks good with the 43.1 gr of 6.5 Staball. I’m going to fine tune that one maybe sets at 43.0, 43.1 and 43.2, then play around with the seating depth. Loving that speed, that SD, and just need to get the group size down a hair!

The 130 OTM results were pretty good, I think the 43.4 was more accurate than the 43.6, the the SD on 43.6 makes we want to lean in that direction. One iffy variable in this was I used resized VIRGIN Peterson…. This yielded higher velocities and more pressure signs than the previous trials that used once fired Peterson. I think this is the equivalent of roughly 0.2 or 0.3 grains of powder. At some point, I’ll run out of new Peterson, but maybe I should develop this anyway and then tweak later for fired brass… decision decisions…


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Here are the results from the 147 ELDM, but this switched from the once fired Norma to resized Virgin Hornady. This showed the same effect, as velocities and pressures went up significantly, I estimate the powder difference/velocity was around 0.5 grains! This ladder was SPICY, one of the primers popped on the 43.5 set, and I didn’t shoot the 43.8 set I had made up. I’m going to back the charges down and try another set around 42.0 grains as this will probably get me close to the accuracy charge I found in the once fired Norma.

Got a seating depth trial on the 142 SMK's loaded up last night.
43.1gr of Staball 6.5 + Virgin Hornady (resized + turning mandrel) + CCI BR2
Did 5 each of the following COL's:
2.825"
2.820"
2.815"
2.810" (original seating depth)


Got a seating depth trial on the 130 OTM Berger's loaded up as well...
43.2gr of H4350 + Virgin Peterson SRP (resized + turning mandrel) + Rem 7.5
Speeds should be around 2860 fps, hopefully single digit SD's...
Did 5 each of the following COL's:
2.820"
2.815"
2.810" (original seating depth)
2.805"
2.800"



I'm going to try the 147 ELD's with H4831SC and see if I can get the speeds up a little. Might be a waste of time, but I've read where people have had some success with this combo. Still using the resized virgin Peterson brass (turning mandrel) with REM 7.5's
Gonna try 44.4, 44.8, 45.2, 45.6, 46.0 gr. and see what happens.

Tried to make up those 147's with the H4831SC and my numbers must have been way off on my research, so I bagged it. I wasn't able to get near the powder I thought I could in those cases.

Instead, I loaded up a trial ladder of the following:

140 gr ELDM
Peterson Virgin Resized + Rem 7.5
H4350 - 41.2, 41.6, 42.0, 42.4, 42.8
COL = 2.820"

The 42.0 was great with the 136 Scenars, so I expect good results around there with the ELDM as well. I'm hoping one of the ELDM's can shoot really well as they have great BC's and are much cheaper than the other brands.

-ZA

May want to toss a 41.4 into the mix. Those at 42.4 and above may be a bit spicy!

Agreed.  I settled on 41.6 despite losing velocity against higher charges.  I chased the next accuracy node into the 42s, but got cold feet.

42.8 is going to be very, very hot.

Especially with this resized virgin brass!

I’m betting the 41.6 is gonna be close to the magic number and I’ll later wind up doing a set at 41.4, 41.6 & 41.8…

Going shooting tomorrow morning, so I should have some results posted up by tomorrow night or Sunday.

I may have mentioned it earlier, but 41.6 very closely approximates the factory Hornady load.

Yeah, 41.5-41.6 is good spot w/ Hornady brass. I was thinking the Peterson may be thicker which would necessitate dropping it down slightly.


I run 41.6 in my BA barrel, 41.4 in my LT barrel.

Here is the 6.5CM target from today…. Cold and windy with some distractions at the range.

I messed up with the powder charge on the 130 OTM, as I was wanting the velocity to be around 2860 not 2890…. That screwed up the groups and chewed up some brass. I had resized this virgin Peterson brass this time, whereas last time I did not (only neck expanded) Dammit! That probably was the cause of the +30 fps velocity gain….

Then of course something was also amiss with the 142 SMK loads, as I was expecting those velocities to be around 2750 fps, not 2700. Not sure what happened here either, maybe some temp sensitivity with Staball 6.5 powder… last time out was 66F, this time was 35F.

Feels like a wasted trip with the 6.5CM today… bummer.

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Had some good success today!

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Gonna back down the charges on the Berger 130 OTM… gonna try 43.1 and 43.3.
Prior loadings showed good accuracy around 2860-2880…
That 41.3 loading on the 140 ELDM needs some confirmation, maybe a seating depth trial…

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147 ELDM at 2.810” looks good, may load up 10 to confirm.
Might try it in Hornady or some AAC brass I have coming in.

Gonna have to back down the 6.5 Staball charge to around 43.0 to 43.5 and see how it looks.
Thinking around 2750 fps is the node.

Got some work in this morning with the 130 OTM, the 140 ELD and the 142 SMK.


2.815” COL looks good on the 140 ELDM. I just got 500 pieces of primed FC brass from AM and I may retry to develop this load in that brass with the factory primers.

Need to figure out a plan for next steps on the 142 SMK…
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I think the OTM load is now settled at 43.2 gr.
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I had best results with Reloder16 and the 142smk.

I refuse to buy anymore over priced Alliant powder! I think I’m going to try to make 6.5 Staball work… I’ve only got 2 lbs of it and maybe 110 of the 142 SMK bullets. I REALLY want to get the 147 ELDM to work…

I wouldn't buy it at today's prices either.  Just in case you had some squirreled away, I thought I'd mention it.  The load itself was hot.  My brother called it the laser because it shot flat out to 450 yards and a beast at long range. Single digit SD.  

Good luck on your 147 work.  Its a great projectile and my favorite until I got the 140gr Berger hybrid load figured out.

I have made an observation (a hypothesis) and am watching it as it gets tested by myself and others -

There are three approaches to reloading:

1.  You can go cheap and get less than stellar results (bullet seconds, non-optimal powder, free brass,...)

2.  You can go middle of the road.

3.  Buy the best and get the best results possible (match primers, top quality brass, optimal powder,...).


Approach #1 is probably okay, or even ideal, if you like to plink or "blast".

Approach #2 is  probably best for short range shooting (well under 600 yards) where you do care somewhat about accuracy but you shoot a lot and cost is a factor.

Approach #3 makes sense when it comes to high-precision shooting, especially at extended ranges like 600 to 1,000 yards.  At long range, it is the only one that makes any sense - you don't shoot a lot of rounds and maintaining performance is essential or long range accuracy is impossible (a waste of time and money).  Powder may cost $65/pound (or whatever) but you aren't shooting so much that it is a cost burden (an extra ~$0.15 per round).  Ditto for primers, bullets and brass.


I have personally tried to make #1 work for #2 and it just did not work, even after measuring, sorting, whatever.

I have tried to make #2 work for #3 and that, too, just does not work.  I believe this is why so many think 1,000 yard shooting is so very "specialized" and "difficult".

For what it's worth, #3 works for everything (all shooting scenarios).

I'm not sure where ZA206 plans to go with all this testing, but I think he is pursuing Approach #2.  I could be wrong.

Testing is fun, in and of itself, because when you do go "shooting", you know you have good ammo.

Really more like #3….

Planning on settling on 2-3 loads in the near future and be done with load development for this 6.5CM. I prefer the ELDM bullets because of their availability and cost and I’m really hoping I can get some stellar loads with them. I’ve got great loads with the 136 Scenar-L and the 130 Berger OTM… those are both really expensive bullets! I think I’m real close on the 140 ELDM, but have some work to do on the 147.

Yes, if you are using Lapua and Berger, you are in Application #3.

Have you done development testing or used the loads at longer range (600 yards or more)?  I've seen only 100 yard results.

What is the application, is this in support of match shooting (paper punching) or recreational shooting or...?


If I may, let me describe load development I've done in the past to support match shooting (Application #3).  

When testing for accuracy, I used to shoot at 200 yards.  At 200 yards, wind is already a big factor but is manageable.  This was as far as a spotting scope could be easily used.  At 200 yards, wind is already a big factor but is manageable.  300 yards and beyond had too much mirage or required a second person in the pits and wind flags were important, so that was a no-go.  

I would shoot at 100 yards when chronographing because of the ease of doing so.  Aligning the chrono to a 200 yard target was too difficult due to the terrain.

That has been updated by using a ShotMarker target system.  This gives me real-time feed back on point of impact down range at extended ranges.  It gives me chrono data at the target, too.  It is really great to be able to shoot out to the full distances to validate the short range screening test accuracy, velocity and bullet drop (BC) results.  

If I were to add a radar-based chrono to get muzzle velocity (like yours), that would be a nice enhancement over my optical chronograph.

Planning on taking a 2 day long range shooting class this spring/summer. Trying to get this 6.5CM and my 223 Bartlein dialed in to take to the class. The 223 is GTG with 77 TMK loads, but I'm still tweaking on this 6.5CM. The price & BC's of the 140 & 147 ELDM's makes them a very attractive bullet to develop loads for. I think the 140 is about done (using H4350), but the 147 is up in the air.

-ZA

I use the 142 SMK in my 260 Rem.  When I am done with my 6XC barrels, I will likely go back to 260 Rem.  I also have a 308 barrel for this rifle.

By the time those are all shot out and my reloading supplies are all gone,... well, you get the idea.    :-)



P.S. - I wonder what others do when developing loads - distances, rounds fired, etc?  When do you commit and load a bunch of a single recipe?

I'll confirm anything I'm going to "load in bulk" at 300 at my range (tops out at 300 yards) before going all in, but 99% of my development is at 100 yards for simplicity.

My 223 77 TMK load is solid and proven in several of my rifles over several range trips in different weather conditions, so it's a bulk loader for sure.

-ZA

Got more workups made for this weekend:

140 ELDM with Peterson Brass, Rem 7.5 & H4350.... trying 41.4, 41.5 & 41.6
They will all probably shoot great, just looking for the tightest grouping/lowest SD. This might be the final trial on this bullet/powder/case, after this, it would just be picking one and doing a confirmation trial.

140 ELDM with Federal Brass (new) with Fed SRP primers & H4350, trying 41.0, 41.2 & 41.4. The Federal cases are 5+ grains heavier than the Peterson, so gotta figure out where they like it. I bought 500 of these, so these might be my "go to" for a match if they shoot well.

147 ELDM with Hornady brass and CCI BR-2 primers and Staball 6.5.
Trying 42.1 & 42.5 at COL=2.810", and 42.2 and 42.6 at COL=2.815"
Trying to find the right combo with accuracy and low SD.... found best accuracy around the 42.5, found the best SD around 42.1. The two COL's are the two best in my experiments.
Trying to get low SD's (mid single digits) using Staball 6.5 has been a challenge.

-ZA

Got back out today and got some work in on the 140 & 147 ELDM bullets.

On the 147’s, I think I’m going to do some small increment seating depth tweaks on the 42.2 gr load of Staball. Solid group and solid SD for that powder.

The 140’s with Peterson had impressive SD’s, but unimpressive groups. Gonna back down to 41.3 gr of H4350 and see what happens.

The Federal brass loadings were a little crazy. That 41.4 load was about as flat (zero vertical spread) as I’ve shot with this rifle. Might try small increment seating depth trial on that one as well.

We shall see…

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