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Posted: 9/6/2021 12:39:58 AM EDT
[#1]
Hornady makes brass, bullets and dies. Midway has two out of three in stock. Not providing links so your thread doesn't get locked as a where to find.
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Posted: 9/6/2021 7:52:12 AM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 9/6/2021 9:11:14 AM EDT
[#3]
It’s absolutely feasible to convert .222 brass and .223 bullets to load 5.45. That’s what we used to have to do. It’s just a lot of work. I’ve even used .223/5.56mm brass.
I can’t really comment on brass longevity, as my load development hasn’t gotten that far yet. I do know guys were saying that case annealing is necessary for any real case life because you work the brass considerably in this conversion. But again, I never got that far to know. I think I only ever loaded cases twice at most, and my load was fairly light. I basically came up with a load that would cycle reliably and stopped there. I got a .221 bullet sizer as part of the group buy we did for dies years ago. The Hornady bullets came out as blems a couple years later. But I did some resizing, just to try it. 5.45 wants a fairly long bullet, so going forward I’m thinking I might try some 69gr match or something. Previously I did a few 55gr FMJBTs and even a few SS109s, and they did function. |
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Posted: 9/6/2021 12:18:16 PM EDT
[#4]
The doom and gloom is real.
Buy the proper brass and bullets. I think Midway has bullets in stock, .2215"? I don't own anything in this caliber, but understand ammo was tight prior to the ban. That caliber will not be high on the US ammo companies list of priorities until they can catch up with demand for current orders. |
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Posted: 9/6/2021 8:24:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Hornady makes the most affordable dies.
Hornady load data is for Hornady cases, with Hornady's 60 grain bullet. Note the cases take small rifle primers, which even in magnum versions, are thinner than large rifle primers. The firing pin protrusion for 5.45 is greater than that for 5.56 and equivalent to large rifle primer firing pin protrusion. It is recommended to use CCI magnum primers, as they are toughest. CCI-450, CCI BR4 and CCI #41 primers are the thickest. I get the same pressure and velocity with CCI-450 and CCI BR4 primers, but CCI #41 primers have been hotter for me, with more pressure and higher velocities. Hornady factory ammo is loaded with 24.0 grain of a ball powder (on my scale). One of the highest velocity powders listed by Hornady is A2460 with 23.9 grains for 2800 fps. The only other powder listed reaching that velocity was CFE-223, but with 25.5 grains and with only 24.0 grains, the velocity was much lower, 2600 fps. A2460 also beat out Varmint, TAC, W748 and H335 for velocity. |
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Posted: 9/7/2021 9:07:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Thanks very much!
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Posted: 9/8/2021 4:29:48 PM EDT
[#7]
There are a few things to consider if you convert brass to 5.45x39. The biggest one is that the cases that are appropriate for conversion have the same heads as .222 and .223 cases, which are smaller in diameter than the real x39 cases. In an AK 74, that might be a problem.
I haven’t been able to get back to my 5.45 project for a while, but I will eventually. |
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Posted: 9/8/2021 8:23:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are a few things to consider if you convert brass to 5.45x39. The biggest one is that the cases that are appropriate for conversion have the same heads as .222 and .223 cases, which are smaller in diameter than the real x39 cases. In an AK 74, that might be a problem. I haven’t been able to get back to my 5.45 project for a while, but I will eventually. I'm not sure how much of a problem that can be. I built two 556 chambered ak clones with bulgarian 74kits. That's 223/556 in a 5.45x39 bolt head. All I did was not trim the ejector back as far. Seems to be fine. 
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Posted: 9/8/2021 10:46:02 PM EDT
[#9]
I'm going to preface what I'm about to say by stating I have never fired 5.45x39mm, let alone reload it.
5.45x39mm case heads measure.394", the base of the case measures .392". .222 and .223 have .378" case heads and the base of those cases measure.376". .016" difference in case heads (.008" more clearance in the extractor) will not be a safety issue. It may effect reliability. The extra clearance at the case head inside the chamber of .014" (.007" more clearance all around) using .222/.223 brass in a 5.45x39 chamber gives me the creeps. This can't be a safe practice, even if someone has gotten away with it unharmed in the past. As far as I can tell there aren't any standard calibers that a good fit for reforming into 5.45x39mm. |
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Posted: 9/8/2021 10:49:58 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not sure how much of a problem that can be. I built two 556 chambered ak clones with bulgarian 74kits. That's 223/556 in a 5.45x39 bolt head. All I did was not trim the ejector back as far. Seems to be fine. Swapping out the AK-74 barrel to .223/5.56mm would not be a safety issue. Using .222/.223 brass to make 5.45x39mm ammo would be unsafe. |
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Posted: 9/9/2021 8:56:14 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Swapping out the AK-74 barrel to .223/5.56mm would not be a safety issue. Using .222/.223 brass to make 5.45x39mm ammo would be unsafe. Ehh, well within combloc tolerances.  |
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Posted: 9/9/2021 9:42:50 AM EDT
[#12]
222 Remington cases require some work, are rather expensive and don't last long in conversion.
223 / 5.56 cases are a whole lot of work and don't last long. That's a lot of time and effort for cases that aren't going to last and have a difficult time making full power 5.45 ammo. Hornady ammo is rated at 2810 fps from a 16 inch barrel, with a 60 grain bullet and 24.0 grains of ball powder. The Hornady load data shows 2800 fps with 23.9 grains of A2460. When first contacting Hornady the only load data given at that time was with CFE-223, but 24.0 grains is only rated at 2600 fps and it takes 25.5 grains to make 2800 fps. Supposedly 350 Legend cases can be formed for 5.45 cases, but they start out with straight walls. I stock up on 5.45 Hornady cases when available and A2460 looks like the powder to use. |
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Posted: 9/9/2021 6:50:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Swapping out the AK-74 barrel to .223/5.56mm would not be a safety issue. Using .222/.223 brass to make 5.45x39mm ammo would be unsafe. With an AR in 5.45, you could simply use a .223 bolt. I don’t think the AK .223 bolt is interchangeable with an AK74, though. |
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Posted: 9/9/2021 7:13:49 PM EDT
[#14]
red army is not russian and makes steel case 5.45. its not gone yet. figures though I finally buy an AK74 and the impostor does this to us.
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Posted: 9/9/2021 8:02:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With an AR in 5.45, you could simply use a .223 bolt. I don’t think the AK .223 bolt is interchangeable with an AK74, though. I guess I don't know why that would be the case either. A 7.62x39 bolt will not work but a 5.56 ak bolt should work in a 74. The stem should be the right size. Last time I looked a 5.56 bolt that would fit my kit built clones was over $100 Probably are not going to just be lucky with the headspace either. But then again, there were or are different manufacturers of 5.56 aks. Maybe some of those use a 7.62 sized stem. idk  |
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Posted: 9/9/2021 8:42:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: red army is not russian and makes steel case 5.45. its not gone yet. figures though I finally buy an AK74 and the impostor does this to us. Red Army 5.45 ammo used to be Romanian and had some problems. What's sold as Red Army now is Russian Tula white box ammo. |
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Posted: 9/10/2021 10:17:09 PM EDT
[#17]
Ok, so here's a question, a little out of the box from reloading. I have a Bulgarian 74 imported by Century Arms for Stan Widener about 6-7 years ago. I love the rifle, and it shoots real well for an AK, very smooth. Can I have a .223 barrel put in along with a new bolt, or adjust the bolt?
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Posted: 9/11/2021 1:15:36 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, so here's a question, a little out of the box from reloading. I have a Bulgarian 74 imported by Century Arms for Stan Widener about 6-7 years ago. I love the rifle, and it shoots real well for an AK, very smooth. Can I have a .223 barrel put in along with a new bolt, or adjust the bolt? Usually no adjustment is needed. AK-Builder was selling conversion barrels, but they sold slowly and there wasn't much demands. So people avoided them becaise they had 9 inch rifling, but that's fine for most bullets weight ammo in the range of the AK gas system and they were accurate. He may get more, but has been winding down his parts with parts kits drying up, or getting too expensive to build. A Polish 5.56 Beryl bolt is available from Arms of America and it will fit the AK74. The left side bullet guide is virgin new and has to be hand filed fitted to the bullet guide ramp. The barrel gas port has to be drilled with a 0.067" drill. AK74 5.45 firing pin protrusion is 1.40mm to 1.52mm. Galil 5.56 firing pin protrusion is 0.600mm to 0.875mm. https://armsofamerica.com/ak-5-56-complete-bolt-assembly-original-beryl-archer-fb-radom-poland/ https://ak-builder.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=31146 https://ak-builder.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=31174 https://ak-builder.com/index.php?dispatch=categories.view&category_id=167 |
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Posted: 9/11/2021 3:42:37 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, so here's a question, a little out of the box from reloading. I have a Bulgarian 74 imported by Century Arms for Stan Widener about 6-7 years ago. I love the rifle, and it shoots real well for an AK, very smooth. Can I have a .223 barrel put in along with a new bolt, or adjust the bolt? Please stay on topic when posting in this forum. Like reloading for an AK. This is the Reloading forum, if you want to post about AK's, then go here. https://www.ar15.com/forums/ak-47/AK-Discussions/64/ |
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Posted: 9/11/2021 2:07:39 PM EDT
[#20]
You're quick on the draw, thanks
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Posted: 9/11/2021 2:09:23 PM EDT
[#21]
Air_Soft, you have been very helpful, thanks again!
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Posted: 9/11/2021 5:41:46 PM EDT
[#22]
I was delving into finding more load data for the 5.45 when I found this picture:
Here is what about 25% of the 5.45X39 cases made from 222Rem look like after their first firing due to sidewall expansion to fit the chamber. If you look closely at the base you may be able to see the bulge. Here’s the post in the thread it came from I’m strongly reconsidering even thinking about using .222 (or .223) brass to convert to 5.45x39. |
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Posted: 9/11/2021 10:11:37 PM EDT
[#23]
For what it’s worth, I didn’t have any splits or bulges when I converted those cases. I don’t think I loaded any of them more than twice, and my load was pretty moderate. I probably converted 30-40 of them. I used some LC 5.56 brass for some of them, which theoretically would be thicker.
ETA: I used Lee dies. |
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Posted: 9/13/2021 4:46:09 PM EDT
[#24]
This thread is relevant to my interests.
I got a Saiga 5.45 and Hornady dies. |
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Posted: 9/22/2021 5:48:51 PM EDT
[#25]
So….yeah. Now I kinda have to eat my words. I decided that I was going to anneal my converted cases. No, I didn’t have any cases split like those above. But a lot of them do have some bulging. As I mentioned previously, my loads were pretty moderate. Had I loaded warmer, I may have had some splits.
So going forward, I’m going to think of these converted cases as for light to moderate loads only, and only expect a couple uses out of them. But, still better than nothing I guess. |
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