I'm researching two different options I have for my M1 (whenever I pony up and buy it). I don't want to be dependent on M1 safe loads. Surplus ammo sources always dry up and from what I can find, new manufacture M1 loads aren't all that common. Cheap, but uncommon.

Right now, it appears I have two options.

Option 1: Spend a few hundred dollars on reloading and load my own ammunition

Option 2: Spend a fraction of that on a ported or adjustable gas plug and be able to utilize any and all 30-06, such as this one: http://www.garandgear.com/ported-gas-plug.html


As an M1 and reloader newbie, it sounds like a no-brainer to go with option 2. But, like I said, I'm still pretty fresh when it comes to M1s. I'm hoping option 2 is viable, as I'd rather use the money I'd spend on reloading supplies on actual ammunition.

Both.

Get the gas plug now. Start investing in reloading.

When ammo dries up or during the next crisis, reload your ammo and shoot it.

Last ammo scare, Often I was the only guy shooting centerfire.


With the gas plug you have the best of both worlds. Even m1 garand safe ammo shoots softer.

The less op rod stress the better.

If you want to be ultra, ultra cheapo, just completely remove the gas plug and use it as a one shot for unsafe ammo.

Otherwise, I use this one: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/100471950/schuster-dcm-adjustable-gas-plug-with-wrench-m1-garand-steel-parkerized

Don't have any complaints on that one. I really like it.

I just buy garand safe ammo when I can.

Well, if you do decide not to reload for your 30-06 M1 Garand but use an adjustable gas plug instead, I'd recommend the Schuster Mfg adj plug.  They also make a tool to facilitate easier removal of the plug when you want to clean the gas cylinder.

That said, ... you actually have a third option, which is to buy a CMP "Special" M1 chambered in .308/7.62 NATO.  

Mil surplus 7.62 ammo is generally more widely available and cheaper than comparable 30-06 surplus ammo.  Plus there's a huge .308 FMJ commercial ammo market that's been fueled by all those .308 AR-10-type gas guns. That ammo basically duplicates the 7.62 surplus, or maybe a tad hotter. Regardless, you won't need ANY adj gas plug to shoot .308/7.62 ammo in a standard (full) size M1. It's only when you go short and convert a standard size M1 to 16" Mini-G length that you need the adj plug for .308 ammo to safeguard the op rod and gas cylinder.

I did consider the 308 model, but my feelings towards that mirror my opinion on the 1911. Made for .45, chambered for .45. Not gonna knock the guy who prefers 9mm 1911s, but for me, a .45 is the only way to go. I feel the same way about 308 Garands. They make sense and I definitely see why people get them, but I would prefer to stay with it's native cartridge, the 30-06.

Definitely option 1 reload. With factory 30-06 running a buck a round or more, sticking with factory you won’t afford to shoot it much. With careful components selection and buying in bulk you can get around three shots to a dollar reloading

reload

reload by far

reloading is a rewarding endeavor

.

You're comparing apples to oranges. There's waaay more of an energy difference between the .45 & 9mm than between "Garand-safe" 30-06 and .308/7.62 NATO.

Definitely get what you want ...

.... But a .308/7.62-chambered M1 saves you a few bucks on surplus & commercial ammo if you're not inclined to reload, and you won't need an adjustable gas plug to shoot .308 "hunting" ammo thru it.

plugs are a gimmick, spend the $ on good ammo.

Tons of inexpensiv comm-surp 06 FM out there that is perfectly M1 safe.

308 7.62N has the same restrictions as 06 in M1. for p
308 doesn't  equal shoot any and all ammo and it will be ok.

Of course, there's a fourth option, too.

Buy your Garand ammo from CMP.  It will be military surplus but guaranteed to be M1-safe.



Personally, I'd say reload.  You will save enough money in the first thousand rounds fired to offset the cost of any and all reloading gear, . including the press and scale.

No. Not even close.

I don't have the time to reload, I barely have any time to shoot.
If you have the time and the space, it's the way to go.
I guess I'm fortunate enough that I can afford to buy a little ammo right now.
Maybe someday when I'm on a fixed income, and not working 40 hours a week, I won't have the money for ammo but I'll have time to reload.


I went with the Garand Gear ported plug but I still shoot "Garand Spec." ammo.
Shot some S&B Garand ammo, and after shopping for the best prices, picked up some PPU for about $.63 per round if memory serves.

I do not recommend the garandgear plug. Posted about it last month.

It really does not stop the hotter 30-06 rounds.

Reloading even with my old school single stage press does not take as much time as you think. Get home from range with say 150 cases. Set up press for resize and resize ( 15 minutes) throw brass in tumbler for an hour while you do something else. Remove brass from tumbler and check case length. Those that pass length check get primed( 15 minutes) case trimming of over length cases is the only part of reloading rifle ammo I hate. Some will just put over length cases on the side until you have a fair number and do them all at once.
Using your scale to check weight adjust powder measure for proper load ( 5 minutes)
Put powder in cases and seat bullet ( 20 minutes)
So to reload 150 30-06 rounds ( excepting any case trimming) will take a grand total of an hour, which can be broken up in to brief periods of each step.
My reloading set up is screwed to a sheet of plywood about 2&1/2 feet square and c clamped to a bench in my garage.
I bought all my reloading gear used at gun shows and from old friends and have less than $200 into everything

Pretty much all 150gr commercial ammo is garand safe.

Just buy rem 150core lokts and don't worry.

Good post.

Reloading is a task you have to want to do and not see it as a time-consuming chore.  After that, it's about saving money, having fun, and deriving some amount of personal satisfaction from it.

from the NRA's book on the M1 Garand


Attached File

I'll admit, reloading makes a lot of sense, and at some point I'll probably talk myself into biting the bullet (pun intended) and get setup for it.

But, my biggest problem with reloading is, even with the two reloading manuals I've read (lyman & hornady) and all the research I've done, I honestly don't feel like I'm capable of producing a completed cartridge properly. I understand the overall process and series of events that's supposed to take place, but there's some finer details that leave me wondering. I'll toss them out there with hopes that maybe someone can enlighten me on the subject.

In both manuals, there's a given powder listed and a range from x gr. to x gr, the latter being the maximum amount that should be used. You're told to start low and work your way up as you develop the load, but this raises two questions.
1. How do you know when you've reached the peak amount of powder for that load? Go by chronograph, how strongly the action cycles, etc?
2. When you're developing a load, do you take all of your equipment to the range and mess with it there until you have what you want, or is there some kind of mathematical equation you use instead, or some combination thereof?

Ultimately that's where I'm left stumped, and why that adjustable plug sounds so nice.

Actually pretty easy. I am not mechanically inclined nor some anal statistician and my 30/06 garand loads are very reliable and easy to assemble. My method is simple: here is an example:
Book says load for garand with a 150 grain bullet and imr 4895 powder show a min of 41 and a max of 47.
I load eight rounds of 41,8of 42 and so on until I get to 8 of 45.5.
Then take it out shooting start with the clip with the lightest load and keep shooting until the gun cycles perfectly. For instance let’s say reliable function occurs at 43 grains. I then usually go up one charge level to 44 ( to ensure function when dirty cold wet etc) and that is the load I use

That sounds very easy.

My biggest issue (in general) is i tend to overthink everything. It usually works out in the end, but I usually wind up with a headache somewhere along the line.

I don't reload, so maybe I'm missing something.
You can resize and (I'm guessing you meant deprime) 10 cases per minute?
That seems fast.

My biggest fear would be the occasional double charge.

You can't really double charge garand loads

Rifle powders typically fill the case 80-100%

So that means I can just fill it to the top, level it off and it'll be good, right?


I'm kidding! I know better than that

you should buy a good reloading manual

Speer

Hornady

Lyman

SIERRA

and start reading it.

the questions you're asking have already shown, that you're not reckless


They sell reloading stuff at academy sports,....it's not an uncommon thing,  it's very popular

Most guys end up really enjoying reloading.

I do.


lots of help here too...

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Reloading/42/

You can find the PPU Garand safe ammo on SGammo regularly. Sell the brass on the EE. win win

Lucky for me, I already have the latest Hornady and Lyman reloading manuals, which I have read. Definitely a ton of useful info in there, that's for sure. Saw some cartridges I didn't even know existed

If I can reload for my M-1..... any of you can....

I use a single stage LEE... get a good manual... watch some You Tube videos, and just do it... it's actually pretty easy.

Since I like to use IMR4064 for .308... it also works great for 30/06.

There are plenty of recommend loads... I use 50 grains with a 150 gr FMJ bullet.

Take you time....its easy.

It could be that you aren't the type of person that is adept at things like reloading but I think it's more likely you  get info overload when reading about it. Might be a whole different ballgame with the components and equipment in front of you.

If either find someone who reloads that will go through the process with you or get a single stage kit and give it a try.

Your fear of commercial ammo is mostly unfounded.

A good commercial choice would be 150gr rem core lokt.  Available at just about any place that sells ammo.

Pretty much all commercial 150 grn loads are fine for garands..as are the 165s.  180s are usually too stout but 200 & 220 are back in the safe zone.

You could just get a .308 garand and not have any of the ammo restrictions.

Once you establish your baseline for reliable function, then you can move on to working up accuracy loads.  It's important to include a note pad and pencil with your range trips now so you can take notes of powder charge, bullet weight, accuracy, and chrono speeds (if you plan on buying a chrono, but not required).  Let's say your base line is 44 grains, then you shoot your 44 , 45, 46, and 47 grain loads.  Let's just say for example 45 the 45 grain load produces the smallest group of the loads.  You now know your rifle is most accurate between 44 and 46 grains.  You can hang out at 45 grains, or you can now load up in .2 grain increments from 44.2-45.8 grains to find your most accurate load.  You may find a couple of different powder charges produce similar accuracy results, if that were the case, I'd stick with the lower charge, that way you don't stress the rifle any more than you have to.

ETA:  When working near max charge, start inspecting for over pressure signs.  This page has a good write up on overpressure signs.  http://www.massreloading.com/reading_pressure_signs.html

Another thing, if you look around, even on facebook, you can find brass for sale at reasonable prices.  A while back I purchased 500 pieces of Remington and Federal brass from a facebook group for $74.  Most reputable brass sellers will include +10% on the brass to cover any unacceptable brass that they missed.

It's not chamber pressure that damages an M1 Garand.  It's pressure at the gas port that damages an M1 Garand.  I'm not saying load to above recommended chamber pressures, I'm just helping explain the powder issues/pressure issue.

Lots of good powders that work.  IMR4895, Varget, IMR4064, H4895, TAC, W748, IMR3031, etc., etc.  As someone stated above, don't go slower (in burn rate) than IMR4064 or the gas port pressures can damage the operating rod.  Some of the powder manufacturers web sites have powder burn rate charts you can look at to get a list of good powders.

You can use commercial or surplus military brass for the M1.  While some people recommend the military grade CCI lar rifle primers for these rifles others use Winchester or CCI large rifle primes with no issues.

If yo already reload you know about brass preparation (including trimming, primer pocket swaging - for most military surplus brass - a one time thing you do the first time you reload the brass - to remove the military primer pocket crimp).

I've been shooting my reloads in my M1's for several years.  No issues, good groups, excellent reliability.

Another of the gas plug is it does not throw your brass very far and you have less extractor/swipe marks.

Less brass prep later for reloading.

One every six seconds is slow tbh. I do much faster than that on a single stage. You are not going to double charge a 30-06 garland load. The case can not hold that volume of powder.

For the record M2 ball wasn't designed for the garand...nor was the garand designed to use M2 ball.

I really wish there was more data about this

I realize Garand gear has a ton of good data but they're biased

I feel like this issue is blown out of proportion.  Tons of M1s, very few stories of bent op-rods recently.
but Im not inclinded to risk my own gun

seems like You-tube foder for sure.  A few torture test videos that sacrifice a few op rods.

The whole breaking oprods is over blown.

Never shoot commercial ammo warning in your garand is also overblown..

One factor favoring a 308/7.62 Garand is that all the makes and models of .308 ARs out there have caused a significant uptick in the production of commercial .308/7.62 ball ammo.  It's loaded to the same energy level as the mil-surplus ammo, which you can still find by the way. I just received 1K rds of Malaysian 7.62 ball ('80s vintage).  My CMP .308 "Special"  M1, which runs a 'standard' GI gas plug, shoots it pretty well too.

No reason to change plugs in 7.62 garands as there is no danger of too much pressure.  .30-06s only need it if you plan to shoot a bunch of 180grn hunting ammo....Most 150-165gr commercial ammo is just fine for garands.

I went back and read your posts.

I don't really trust the data from the hippies in the desert.
If you notice when they are testing the adjustable gas plug they had a checkerboard background in the videos, which would help to calculate velocity.
When they tested the GarandGear plug, the checkerboard was misssing.

Not very scientific.
Something smells fishy there.
Agenda much?

The GarandGear plug, on the other hand has tons of scientific data on actual port pressure on their site.

The plug is a very controversial topic among M1 owners.
Use one or not.
It's great to have choices.

I reload and have for over 35 years now. The US Army used to sell bulk .30-06 and .308 Lake City match brass to my Gun Club $12.00/100 and $10.00/100 respectively. I purchased 2000 pieces a year until the program ended.

You will never get in trouble using moderate loads of IMR or H4895. You can adjust the powder charge up or down to ease ejection or make it more robust. 46.0 grains of either powder can work from 150 to 173 grain bullets in .30-06, no need to change settings if you just want to load and shoot.

My Donald (Mac) McCoy .308 Garand ejects cases almost 25 feet. I just purchased a Shuster's gas regulator because my loads are modest, probably 1.0 grain below maximum. I have not had a chance to use it yet. The same loads run fine from my AR10's and M1-A's. 40.7 grains of IMR-4064, Lake City Match 7.62x51mm brass, Winchester std. large rifle primers and 168 grain Sierra Match Kings seated at 2.810".

I have seen people damage rifles using hot loads. I witnessed a National Match M1-A receiver break off at the rear where the bolt hits on recoil. The owner was using 41.5 grains of H4895 (a full 1.5 grains over maximum according to Wm. C. Davis Jr). The 1994 AWB was due to go into effect the very next day. Disappointment was written large on his face.

Primer choice makes a big difference as far as chamber pressure goes, probably not as much when it comes to port pressure. Winchester and Federal large rifle primers are known to be HOT compared to other brands. CCI-#34 is probably just as hot. Remington 9.5, Wolf std. large rifle primers and CCI-200 and 250's are know to be mild. Like worth a whole grain worth plus of powder milder.

IMI makes excellent military surplus brass for .308. Finding consistent .30-06 brass in bulk will be harder. Mixing brands of brass will lead to poor results on target.

Yes, ... we agree.

Several years ago I bought a few thousand LC MATCH cases in 30-06.  I'm still using those for my reloads.

I picked up well over 100 pieces of HXP brass in 30-06 during my last visit to the range.  <-- yes, there are people who don't reload.

There were thousands more available but I left them for others.

I keep my LC brass from my CMP ammo as I shoot it.

I once bought some military 30-06 brass because it was stamped with the year of my birth.  <-- I know, a dumb reason.

I bought 8 pounds of IMR 4895.  I still have some but over half has been used for reloads.

I have 5,000 of the CCI #34 primers, so I'll be buying more powder.  <--  32 pounds are needed to use up those primers.

I'm going to shoot that ARFCOM "Battle Rifle" contest* on my next range trip.  My rifle barely holds the black (barrel is shot out) but I will do it anyway and it will be fun.

Reloading is fun!  Shooting is fun!  They go well together.

*  Link to thread for rules and targets

By the way, just offering this FYI, ... but regarding the Schuster Adj Gas Plug, they also make a special removal tool and a wrench (to hold the gas cylinder), so you can easily remove the plug in order to clean any gunk or carbon build-up inside the g.c.

Adj. plug:  http://www.schustermfg.com/m1-garand-adjustable-gas-plug/

Tool & wrench:  http://www.schustermfg.com/m1-wrench-set/

The tool fits the mouth off the plug perfectly, and twisting the plug out won't disturb the setting of the adjustment screw inside that regulates the gas once it's been set to where you want it for cycling.

Again, just throwing this out to the group here, FYI.

Quoted:
I went back and read your posts.

I don't really trust the data from the hippies in the desert. Ad hominem
If you notice when they are testing the adjustable gas plug they had a checkerboard background in the videos, which would help to calculate velocity.
When they tested the GarandGear plug, the checkerboard was misssing.  
You can still clearly see the time interval of the moving bolt and the garandgear plug is much faster.
Not very scientific.
Something smells fishy there.
Agenda much?

The GarandGear plug, on the other hand has tons of scientific data on actual port pressure on their site.
Port pressure. That’s it. Notice they never mention op rod speed. Total pressure on the piston is the same as the stock plug. That tiny microsecond shows the delay in peak pressure but that pressure is still pushing on the op rod in total force. Delay or not. The Schuster plug actually sends some of the gas out.
The plug is a very controversial topic among M1 owners.
Use one or not.
It's great to have choices. Agreed

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Sir:
Firstly I have no dog in this.............. I shoot "Garand safe" reloads, and so I dont use either product.
I do agree that this causes alot of discussion..................

But I'm confused by your comments:

Are you saying that "op rod speed" is more important than the port pressure?
Or that port pressure isn't relevant?

Because:
- the port pressure is what drives the op rod.  You have to have port pressure (firing) before there is any op rod movement (cycling).

- Both of the plugs work on the same principal that cartridges do. .......the build up of pressure which then causes something to move.  In the cartridge- the bullet.  In the gas system-the op rod.

-To use your words......"total pressure on the piston" is NOT THE SAME with these plugs.  Both increase the volume in which the gas can build up.  With the Schuster it seems you can open it all the way up.  The Garand gear one is fixed.  But both mean more volume and so less pressure on the piston.

-Garand Gears testing also introduce less variables.  By testing the port pressure, there are, what, two variables that I can think of:  the port size and leakage of gas in the cylinder.  But measuring op rod or bolt speed has those variables but also:  the condition of the op rod spring, lubrication (or lack of), potential binding of parts (ie the stock against the op rod), condition of the chamber and the ammunition itself.

-LASTLY, IF DAMAGE WERE TO OCCUR, IT BEGINS PRIOR TO UNLOCKING, SO MEASURING SPEEDS AFTER THAT IS, WELL, POINTLESS.

-So since the port pressure is the "first step" in this chain and can be reliably measured, I argue, it is a better measure.  
And of course you could test the Schuster plug the same way....................

But either way................ use one if you like,  don't if you don't.  
They certainly would lessen the chances of damage to your rifle if using hot ammunition..................

With all the torture test videos out there how has this topic not been covered?

It seems like easy money.  Three Garands with new barrels, three like op rods, three different plugs (GI, shuster, Garand Gear), three cases of  ~150 grain commercial and widely available, but not nasty, 30-06.  Shoot a stack of it and recheck for wear and the op rod for damage.

Just in case

@forgottenweapons
@iraqveteran8888

I do not have a Garand, but I had to make the same decision for my M1A not that long ago. In the end I decided to go with a Schuster adjustable gas plug and reload. It allows me too much flexibility to not do both.

I can tailor my loads to my specific rifle to maximize accuracy, and I can control the recoil impulse to a certain extent to further tune it. Felt recoil is reduced, op rod cycling speed is reduced, and I can find the sweet spot that my gun likes. Some people say that too many variables over complicated a relatively simple process, but an organized and logical approach when making your adjustments can really maximize your rifle’s potential. Load development and rifle tuning are not nuclear physics, and when done properly the result is a more enjoyable shooting experience.

I am loading 178 grain BTHPs over H4985 in LC brass, and I can push the hard enough to flatten primers more than I care to admit without any major concerns regarding my op rod when I tune my gas plug. Obviously that isn’t where I normally load, but sometimes you push limits to find out exactly where they are. I now have a load that gives me the best accuracy for my system, with a relatively reduced felt recoil, and I am not breaking the bank to do it.

Having said that, that is what works for me. You individual circumstances may dictate that you make different choices. Decide what you want to get out of your system, and then figure out the best way for you to achieve that.