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Page Armory » M-16
Posted: 5/5/2022 12:06:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AknotArguy]
Hi, does anyone have any experience with rate-reducing buffers? I found this & it seems great from the description
http://www.redstararms.com/867.html

I’m looking to slow the rate of fire a bit & plan to use it for multiple calibers mostly 9mm x39 and 556 any other ideas or options? how about the red star buffer I had linked?

Thank you in advance for the input I’m still trying to figure all of this out
Link Posted: 5/5/2022 12:49:06 PM EDT
[#1]
@amphibian has a lot of experience with different setups.  I haven't tried any RRB's beyond A5 and a hydraulic buffer.
Link Posted: 5/5/2022 2:46:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: amphibian] [#2]
That buffer you linked to looks like a rip off of the old MGI buffer.  I have one pictured below.
I still use them for certain configurations but I have almost completely moved to just using the A5 buffer tube, Tubb flat springs and hydraulic buffers.



Check out some of my links below:
Buffer info

Discussing springs and buffers

Main AR15/M16 page: https://c3junkie.com/?page_id=164

Everyone is different but I like a cyclic rate in the 600s-700s except for 22LR where reliability is the priority.


Link Posted: 5/5/2022 6:12:10 PM EDT
[#3]
Surefire is using Jim Sullivan optimize bolt carrier group to help reduce cyclical rate of fire. It does require a change in parts due to its interesting design..

https://www.surefire.com/products/suppressors-division/suppressor-accessories/sf-obc-556-optimized-bolt-carrier-group/
Link Posted: 5/5/2022 6:44:37 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ryo:
Surefire is using Jim Sullivan optimize bolt carrier group to help reduce cyclical rate of fire. It does require a change in parts due to its interesting design..

https://www.surefire.com/products/suppressors-division/suppressor-accessories/sf-obc-556-optimized-bolt-carrier-group/
View Quote
My middle link above discusses using the Surefire BCG with and without their proprietary buffer.  
By using the A5 tube I can use a standard length carbine buffer.


Link Posted: 5/6/2022 8:44:48 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By amphibian:
My middle link above discusses using the Surefire BCG with and without their proprietary buffer.  
By using the A5 tube I can use a standard length carbine buffer.

https://c3junkie.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/MK18_556Tubb_A5_RB5005_Spacer_070_SOB-1024x497.jpg
View Quote



Off topic, but what is that white thing on the end of your tubbs spring?
Link Posted: 5/6/2022 3:48:23 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bending_rodriguez:



Off topic, but what is that white thing on the end of your tubbs spring?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bending_rodriguez:
Originally Posted By amphibian:
My middle link above discusses using the Surefire BCG with and without their proprietary buffer.  
By using the A5 tube I can use a standard length carbine buffer.

https://c3junkie.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/MK18_556Tubb_A5_RB5005_Spacer_070_SOB-1024x497.jpg



Off topic, but what is that white thing on the end of your tubbs spring?
I explain that in the middle link I posted above.
Here it is again: https://c3junkie.com/?page_id=977
Link Posted: 5/7/2022 12:16:12 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By amphibian:
That buffer you linked to looks like a rip off of the old MGI buffer.  I have one pictured below.
I still use them for certain configurations but I have almost completely moved to just using the A5 buffer tube, Tubb flat springs and hydraulic buffers.
https://c3junkie.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/buffers.jpg


Check out some of my links below:
Buffer info

Discussing springs and buffers

Main AR15/M16 page: https://c3junkie.com/?page_id=164

Everyone is different but I like a cyclic rate in the 600s-700s except for 22LR where reliability is the priority.


View Quote



Thank you for all the info. Is there one setup that you could recommend that would work relatively well? I don't particularly want to spend a fortune on all of those different buffers. Like you, I would love to get it down in the 600-700 range. As far as .22 goes im still working on getting it running right unfortunately
Link Posted: 5/7/2022 12:34:12 AM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 5/7/2022 5:45:36 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RIFLESPEED:
You can slow the ROF down until the gun stops running by controlling the gas. No need for swapping buffers. No tools needed, instant adjustment, whatever ammo, suppressed/unsuppressed, etc... There's a builder in Idaho (Red Right Hand LLC)  that has videos up showing the effect on ROF he gets by controlling the gas on the LMG uppers he builds.
View Quote
I'm not going to argue with you there.  I'm also the inventor of the MicroMOA Govnah adjustable gas block (no longer in business due to family issues).  I do like your gas block design though.  A different execution and too many settings for my tastes but definitely looks solid.  
That said, my #1 criteria is controlling the gas.  All the buffers/springs in the world won't help you till you do that.  Gas must be optimized is #1.
Then you tune with buffers and springs etc.  

In ALL of the testing and pictures I've posted, my guns already have the ports optimized which is another discussion.
Link Posted: 5/7/2022 6:06:09 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AknotArguy:


Thank you for all the info. Is there one setup that you could recommend that would work relatively well? I don't particularly want to spend a fortune on all of those different buffers. Like you, I would love to get it down in the 600-700 range. As far as .22 goes im still working on getting it running right unfortunately
View Quote
Have you looked at my website?
This is the main page for the AR15/M16: https://c3junkie.com/?page_id=164

The first link at the top talks about the CMMG 9mm RDB that I run in full auto.  I have done a lot of testing with that.  I would say that the stock recommended buffer and spring configuration is only marginally better than a well tuned straight blow back but changing to my recommended buffer tube, spring and buffer have made a world of difference.  It is now MP5 smooth.

There is NO CONTROLLING THE GAS HERE - since it is NOT GAS operated.   The CMMG RDB uses angles on the bolt lugs to control the delay.  Initially I cut my own angles on a 5.45x39 bolt to delay the unlocking further than their 9mm bolt.  Basically to make my own dedicated bolt for suppressed usage.  Then they came out with a .40SW variant and found their .40SW bolt closely matched what I was doing to the 5.45x39 bolts.  So it turns out that their .40SW bolt works great as a suppressed bolt in 9mm.

Picture below shows that I'm getting 622 RPM and that is using their factory unmodified 9mm bolt unsuppressed.  
This is using an A5 length buffer tube, Tubb 556 flat spring and an RB5007 hydraulic buffer ------ I use this in about 95% of all of my configurations now.
I previously had everything tuned to run with a standard power 'White' Sprinco buffer spring, carbine buffer tube and H2 buffer. - I did that because that closely matches what the military uses in the MK18 and I wanted to run what is considered a standard.

Now the H2 is 4.5 oz and the RB5007 is 5.9 ounces and I thought, I really didn't want to have to adjust my gas (increase) for all my uppers now that I found the sweet spot for my delayed blowback 9mm CMMG....but to my surprise almost all of my uppers worked with no adjustment to my gas port sizes.   I can't explain it but there is something the action of the hydraulic buffers where they may weigh more but you can get away with it vs a mechanical.  Meaning if I used a mechanical buffer weighing the same as the RB5007 it wouldn't work but function fine with the hydraulic.



If you asked me about buffer springs 10 years ago, I would have thought the flat springs were a gimmick but now I'm a believer.  I have all the data to show the results in the cyclic rates achieved.  The Kynshot hydraulics work really well with a buffering effect in both directions.  However, looking at my site, I have almost all the buffers they make but I really only like the RB5005 or RB5007 that have about 5lbs of compression.  I think they stiffer ones are for configurations where the gas isn't tuned or scenarios where you have no gas to control like a straight blowback setup but I wouldn't run straight blowback on a transferrable M16 anyways (been there done that and egged out some hammer pin holes back in the day - never again).
Link Posted: 5/7/2022 7:40:21 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By amphibian:
I explain that in the middle link I posted above.
Here it is again: https://c3junkie.com/?page_id=977
View Quote



I guess my question was on topic then!  Sorry though, I didn’t realize that that was the surefire buffer you were talking about.


Thank you for the work you do to bring your knowledge/experience to the board!
Page Armory » M-16
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