User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 5/9/2021 9:03:37 AM EDT
[#1]
What length barrel?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/9/2021 10:39:19 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What length barrel? 22" I guess it's probably better to have the sight bottomed out than maxed out. I'm not worried about it just wondering if that's normal. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/9/2021 11:22:52 AM EDT
[#3]
I am not as familiar with the M1A as the M1. However the rear sights are the same. Check to ensure someone did not put a hooded sight on a standard base. If it bothers you you can file a taper on the bottom of the sight track if it has not been done already, see section 2A of fultons instructions, Fulton
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/9/2021 12:05:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am not as familiar with the M1A as the M1. However the rear sights are the same. Check to ensure someone did not put a hooded sight on a standard base. If it bothers you you can file a taper on the bottom of the sight track if it has not been done already, see section 2A of fultons instructions, Fulton It's a brand new Springfield Armory so nothing has been changed except I replaced the neutered flash hider with one with a bayo lug. Got that from Fulton so it should be good quality. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/9/2021 12:48:29 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 22" I guess it's probably better to have the sight bottomed out than maxed out. I'm not worried about it just wondering if that's normal. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What length barrel? 22" I guess it's probably better to have the sight bottomed out than maxed out. I'm not worried about it just wondering if that's normal. Figure you'll need to raise your elevation knob to hit longer distances. So bottomed out for 100 is not necessarily a bad thing. Makes returning the rifle to your starting zero - really easy. I usually sight in at 25yds then check my zero at 100. With my full length M1A that zero was good to 400yds before I needed to start cranking on the elevation knob. Edited to add, I had my full length one out to 700yds with iron sights and steel gongs. Took a few rounds into the dirt to get there. Sold that gun and now have a Scout that is similarly sighted in. Need to get it out to a long distance range. I write down the number of clicks it takes me to zero the rifle and put that in the butstock compartment. That way I can get back to my starting zero quickly. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2021 8:55:09 AM EDT
[#6]
Not really an issue, but if want to be 6-8 clicks up (200 zero)you could purchase a taller front sight and file.
Me I would leave it alone the lower the rear sight the better. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2021 9:38:55 AM EDT
[#7]
I think on my Garand sighting in involved bottomed out and then up 2 clicks to zero at 100, then loosening the knob to match the markings.
Don't the M14/M1A and Garand share a sight pattern? Shouldn't that be the way it is? Big line zeros at 100? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2021 10:42:57 AM EDT
[#8]
M1 is in yards, M14 is in meters, rest 100% the same and 100% interchangeable. My M1A loaded was boxed with lockbar sights. front sights are different
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2021 11:09:40 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think on my Garand sighting in involved bottomed out and then up 2 clicks to zero at 100, then loosening the knob to match the markings. Don't the M14/M1A and Garand share a sight pattern? Shouldn't that be the way it is? Big line zeros at 100? All true in a perfect world. 4-10 clicks up on garands and M1a has been the norm. What you can run into is a front sight that was filed short, raising impact, or simply the pressure and bending applied from the stock fit. My 18” barrel LRB could use a SAInc tall sight. Iirc I am bottomed out on the rear, but am holding a 6 o’clock hold on a SR1 with the impact still about 3” high at a 100 over my front sight tip. Ball ammo, FN or South African. Memory escapes me which. I did consider that mod to grinding the tip off the aperture rack front end. Never did it. Cheap enough part to experiment with. $60 for the SAInc tall sight was a bit too much for me to justify, A few clucks up from bottom is my preferred happy zero spot. The taller that rear sight is the more chance it has to wobble and if you go real long distance you might be changing cheek pressure and location of your head position. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/12/2021 12:18:31 AM EDT
[#10]
An old high power trick is to use a file to remove the bottom few teeth on the sight so it will sit down better.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/12/2021 7:08:39 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 22" I guess it's probably better to have the sight bottomed out than maxed out. I'm not worried about it just wondering if that's normal. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What length barrel? 22" I guess it's probably better to have the sight bottomed out than maxed out. I'm not worried about it just wondering if that's normal. M1As shouldn't really differ from M1 Garands on making adjustments to the sight system to suit your needs/requirements. If groups are hitting well ABOVE POA with the rear sight bottomed out, before monkeying with shaving off material from the aperture's stem, I'd look for a different front sight with a taller blade. Conversely, if groups are hitting well BELOW POA, Garand Pros-in-the-Know will typically file or grind down the front-sight blade first (working careful only a bit at a time), to achieve the amount of gross elevation they want. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/12/2021 8:02:18 AM EDT
[#12]
if your front sight needs material removal use similar triangles to figure the amount of material for removal.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/12/2021 10:36:29 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An old high power trick is to use a file to remove the bottom few teeth on the sight so it will sit down better. https://www.fulton-armory.com/faqs/M14-FAQs/NM2.GIF You do not remove the teeth! You file material from the front of the front sight and the area forward of the teeth ro allow the aperture to to go lower and deeper in the sight housing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/12/2021 10:47:49 PM EDT
[#14]
I zero M1 Garand's and M1-A's at 200 yards using NRA tournament targets (just under 12" diameter) using a six o'clock hold.
That makes my impact approximately 6" higher than my line of sight. If you use a "Navy hold", holding center mass your sight setting will need to come down 3 moa. Their are advantages to using a six o'clock hold IMO. I can distinguish the sight picture using a bullseye target a lot easier placing the "pumpkin on top of a fence post" more consistently. I can also "see" what I am shooting at in the field. Covering the target with my front post obscures it from my vision. If you aren't using a six o'clock hold, give it a try. Use a 6" circle at 100 yards or a 12" circle at 200. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2021 2:28:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Is your rear sight aperature a standard or national match with the hood. Also the NM2/A base is relieved to clear the hood.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2021 6:34:01 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is your rear sight aperature a standard or national match with the hood. Also the NM2/A base is relieved to clear the hood. Standard |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/15/2021 7:33:46 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I zero M1 Garand's and M1-A's at 200 yards using NRA tournament targets (just under 12" diameter) using a six o'clock hold. That makes my impact approximately 6" higher than my line of sight. If you use a "Navy hold", holding center mass your sight setting will need to come down 3 moa. Their are advantages to using a six o'clock hold IMO. I can distinguish the sight picture using a bullseye target a lot easier placing the "pumpkin on top of a fence post" more consistently. I can also "see" what I am shooting at in the field. Covering the target with my front post obscures it from my vision. If you aren't using a six o'clock hold, give it a try. Use a 6" circle at 100 yards or a 12" circle at 200. I agree with this. For all my 'shooter' Garands, whether in .30-06 or .308, my minimum zero is 200-yds using a 6 o'clock hold from supported prone on the same target as Borderpatrol describes. I have one super-accurate 7.62 M1 that I decided to zero @ 300-yds (using the same hold/same position) just because .... But here's a question: when shooting 30-06 ball ammo (e.g., HXP), and being zeroed @ 200-yds using the above described 6 o'clock hold, what zero distance does that equal (approximately) if you shot a group using a center-mass/'dead-on' hold, where the front sight is held directly on the target? ... 300yds, 350yds? Anybody done that to see? Anybody? ... Bueller? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/15/2021 7:40:08 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree with this. For all my 'shooter' Garands, whether in .30-06 or .308, my minimum zero is 200-yds using a 6 o'clock hold from supported prone on the same target as Borderpatrol describes. I have one super-accurate 7.62 M1 that I decided to zero @ 300-yds (using the same hold/same position) just because .... But here's a question: when shooting 30-06 ball ammo (e.g., HXP), and being zeroed @ 200-yds using the above described 6 o'clock hold, what zero distance does that equal (approximately) if you shot a group using a center-mass/'dead-on' hold, where the front sight is held directly on the target? ... 300yds, 350yds? Anybody done that to see? Anybody? ... Bueller? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I zero M1 Garand's and M1-A's at 200 yards using NRA tournament targets (just under 12" diameter) using a six o'clock hold. That makes my impact approximately 6" higher than my line of sight. If you use a "Navy hold", holding center mass your sight setting will need to come down 3 moa. Their are advantages to using a six o'clock hold IMO. I can distinguish the sight picture using a bullseye target a lot easier placing the "pumpkin on top of a fence post" more consistently. I can also "see" what I am shooting at in the field. Covering the target with my front post obscures it from my vision. If you aren't using a six o'clock hold, give it a try. Use a 6" circle at 100 yards or a 12" circle at 200. I agree with this. For all my 'shooter' Garands, whether in .30-06 or .308, my minimum zero is 200-yds using a 6 o'clock hold from supported prone on the same target as Borderpatrol describes. I have one super-accurate 7.62 M1 that I decided to zero @ 300-yds (using the same hold/same position) just because .... But here's a question: when shooting 30-06 ball ammo (e.g., HXP), and being zeroed @ 200-yds using the above described 6 o'clock hold, what zero distance does that equal (approximately) if you shot a group using a center-mass/'dead-on' hold, where the front sight is held directly on the target? ... 300yds, 350yds? Anybody done that to see? Anybody? ... Bueller? about 450- 500 yards..... 13” bull using a 6 o’clock hold is a six inch off set. a six moa click elevation change should be very close to a center mass 500 yard setting. A few inches low in my rifle off the top of my head. HXP was flatter than the LC delinked ammo CMP sold. It has been a good seven years since I shot longer than 200 yards with these guns so forgive me if my morning coffee doesn’t bring back great recall. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/15/2021 7:52:35 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: about 450- 500 yards..... 12” bull using a 6 o’clock hold is a six inch off set. a six moa click elevation change should be very close to a center mass 500 yard setting. A few inches low in my rifle off the top of my head. HXP was flatter than the LC delinked ammo CMP sold. It has been a good seven years since I shot longer than 200 yards with these guns so forgive me if my morning coffee doesn’t bring back great recall. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I zero M1 Garand's and M1-A's at 200 yards using NRA tournament targets (just under 12" diameter) using a six o'clock hold. That makes my impact approximately 6" higher than my line of sight. If you use a "Navy hold", holding center mass your sight setting will need to come down 3 moa. Their are advantages to using a six o'clock hold IMO. I can distinguish the sight picture using a bullseye target a lot easier placing the "pumpkin on top of a fence post" more consistently. I can also "see" what I am shooting at in the field. Covering the target with my front post obscures it from my vision. If you aren't using a six o'clock hold, give it a try. Use a 6" circle at 100 yards or a 12" circle at 200. I agree with this. For all my 'shooter' Garands, whether in .30-06 or .308, my minimum zero is 200-yds using a 6 o'clock hold from supported prone on the same target as Borderpatrol describes. I have one super-accurate 7.62 M1 that I decided to zero @ 300-yds (using the same hold/same position) just because .... But here's a question: when shooting 30-06 ball ammo (e.g., HXP), and being zeroed @ 200-yds using the above described 6 o'clock hold, what zero distance does that equal (approximately) if you shot a group using a center-mass/'dead-on' hold, where the front sight is held directly on the target? ... 300yds, 350yds? Anybody done that to see? Anybody? ... Bueller? about 450- 500 yards..... 12” bull using a 6 o’clock hold is a six inch off set. a six moa click elevation change should be very close to a center mass 500 yard setting. A few inches low in my rifle off the top of my head. HXP was flatter than the LC delinked ammo CMP sold. It has been a good seven years since I shot longer than 200 yards with these guns so forgive me if my morning coffee doesn’t bring back great recall. Thanks! I figured someone had tried this, just to see what the actual zero would be if using a center-mass hold. But I wouldn't have thought, even with a particularly flat-shooting ball load, it would be equivalent to a zero in the 450-500yd range. Maybe 400yd tops. Good to know, thanks! |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2021 3:26:05 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You do not remove the teeth! You file material from the front of the front sight and the area forward of the teeth ro allow the aperture to to go lower and deeper in the sight housing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: An old high power trick is to use a file to remove the bottom few teeth on the sight so it will sit down better. https://www.fulton-armory.com/faqs/M14-FAQs/NM2.GIF You do not remove the teeth! You file material from the front of the front sight and the area forward of the teeth ro allow the aperture to to go lower and deeper in the sight housing. I said teeth by mistake, it's the bottom of the aperture that is relieved/trimmed on the base just like the drawing shows. If the aperture base is so low it's touching the receiver you can have non repeatable elevation variances. This modification is direct from Kuhnhausen's .30 Cal Service Rifle shop manual P.316 f. 388 |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2021 7:40:44 PM EDT
[#21]
On one of my Garands the rear elevation is bottomed out but is perfectly zeroed at 100 yards. Guess I got lucky.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2021 11:03:31 PM EDT
[#22]
6" high at 200 yards is 3 moa high. My come ups at 300 yards (18" bullseye) is another 3.5 moa. If I didn't change my zero at all and shot at the 300 yard target using a 6 o'clock hold I would group approximately 1.5 inches lower than the six o'clock position of the 300 yard bull.
A 200 yard zero using a six o'clock hold on the NRA/CMP SR target gives you a combat effective zero from point blank to approximately 325 yards. You will never be over 7" above or below the line of sight out to that range. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/19/2021 7:16:11 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: * * * A 200 yard zero using a six o'clock hold on the NRA/CMP SR target gives you a combat effective zero from point blank to approximately 325 yards. You will never be over 7" above or below the line of sight out to that range. Okay, and so if you've got your M1 zeroed @ 300 yards using a six o'clock hold on a regulation target for that distance, what's the 'combat effective zero' then? i.e., from point-blank to ... what? 425yds? 450yds? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/19/2021 11:52:08 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Okay, and so if you've got your M1 zeroed @ 300 yards using a six o'clock hold on a regulation target for that distance, what's the 'combat effective zero' then? i.e., from point-blank to ... what? 425yds? 450yds? To be 9" high at 300 yards (18" bullseye X-ring) IMO is too much elevation for a combat zero. The idea of having a zero that works without doing math out to 300 is even a stretch, but doable. A 200 yard zero on the 12" bullseye using a 6 o'clock hold (impacts 6" higher than the front sight post) allows placing the front sight on the belt buckle of an enemy combatant from up close and personal to 300 yards and get torso hits. It also allows you to enter any NRA/CMP program tournament already zeroed. All NRA/CMP targets are designed to "look" the same through your sights at every distance fired in a tournament. 200 yards is 12" diameter, 300 yards is 18" and 600 yards is 36". When viewed over the front sight they are almost identical in width to a NM front sight post. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/19/2021 9:11:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To be 9" high at 300 yards (18" bullseye X-ring) IMO is too much elevation for a combat zero. The idea of having a zero that works without doing math out to 300 is even a stretch, but doable. A 200 yard zero on the 12" bullseye using a 6 o'clock hold (impacts 6" higher than the front sight post) allows placing the front sight on the belt buckle of an enemy combatant from up close and personal to 300 yards and get torso hits. It also allows you to enter any NRA/CMP program tournament already zeroed. All NRA/CMP targets are designed to "look" the same through your sights at every distance fired in a tournament. 200 yards is 12" diameter, 300 yards is 18" and 600 yards is 36". When viewed over the front sight they are almost identical in width to a NM front sight post. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Okay, and so if you've got your M1 zeroed @ 300 yards using a six o'clock hold on a regulation target for that distance, what's the 'combat effective zero' then? i.e., from point-blank to ... what? 425yds? 450yds? To be 9" high at 300 yards (18" bullseye X-ring) IMO is too much elevation for a combat zero. The idea of having a zero that works without doing math out to 300 is even a stretch, but doable. A 200 yard zero on the 12" bullseye using a 6 o'clock hold (impacts 6" higher than the front sight post) allows placing the front sight on the belt buckle of an enemy combatant from up close and personal to 300 yards and get torso hits. It also allows you to enter any NRA/CMP program tournament already zeroed. All NRA/CMP targets are designed to "look" the same through your sights at every distance fired in a tournament. 200 yards is 12" diameter, 300 yards is 18" and 600 yards is 36". When viewed over the front sight they are almost identical in width to a NM front sight post. A 200yd zero sounds more practical to me. The reason I asked about the 300yd zero is because I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the Marines adopted that zero as their 'combat zero' for the M1 (firing M2 ball), and that doing so gave them a point-blank zero out to 500yds on enemy soldiers. Could be wrong, but that's why I asked. Thanks. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
