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Posted: 6/5/2017 12:13:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: dryflash3]
Link Posted: 6/5/2017 12:32:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: dryflash3] [#1]
Link Posted: 6/5/2017 12:58:28 AM EDT
[#2]
Hmmm. Seems the gas check makes a huge difference. Those groups show promise and make me think casting for the 223 might not be the lost cause the interwebs has led me to believe.
Link Posted: 6/5/2017 2:37:22 AM EDT
[#3]
Thanks dryflash3. I haven't had any real success. I shoot at 50 yards with a 16x scope.

I got frustrated and quit messing with them but with your report I may go try some more.

What gas checks are you using? I'm using aluminum at the correct thickness.

For some reason I haven't been able to pinpoint yet aluminum gas checks do not work on my 30 caliber bullets (7.5x54 MAS) but Hornady copper ones work great. This is speaking accuracy wise only. Either do the actual gas checking well it's just the aluminum ones result in very poor accuracy.

Also. I have some old stock H-4227. Does anyone know how close it is to the current IMR-4227?

Motor
Link Posted: 6/5/2017 7:26:58 AM EDT
[#4]
If your having issues with al gas checks that's telling you that they are too hard/need annealed. When a gc falls off you will get fliers from that bullet, doesn't matter the caliber. Take a small piece of pipe that is threaded on both ends. Tighten a cap on 1 end and put some gc's in the pipe and a small 1" square piece of paper in the pipe with the gc's. Put a cap on the other end of the pipe and tighten it. You want an air tight seal. Put the pipe/gc's in a fire and anneal the gc's, let them cool and open the pipe and dump your annealed gc's out. The now soft al gc's will stay on the bullets just like the soft copper gc's.

I looked at casting bullets for the ar's years ago. Came to the conclusion it can be done but it's a real fine line with what works and what doesn't. Between the fast twists and having to cycle the action more goes wrong than goes right. If I were to take the cast bullet/ar combo seriously I'd:

Use a 1 in 12 twist bbl
A dedicated lower/rifle with a modified buffer and buffer spring
65gr to 70gr bullet
At least lyman #2 alloy
size the bullet to .226"

Good luck, it's a up hill battle but I'm sure you have the talent to find a load/combo that works for you.
Link Posted: 6/5/2017 7:57:56 AM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 6/5/2017 9:41:52 AM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Hornady gas check used.

I sent off for some samples of Aluminum gas checks and was not impressed.

Maybe they weren't annealed, don't know. The Hornady's work for me.
View Quote
Same here. I found aluminum gas checks often left the base in flight.
Link Posted: 6/5/2017 7:02:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Thanks dryflash3. I've been testing Bator loads for some time. Unchecked bullet accuracy was bad. Using the Hornady gas checks resulted in good groups but unreliable cycling.
I'd have to look up my powder amounts, don't remember off hand.
Link Posted: 6/5/2017 7:23:46 PM EDT
[#8]
Awesome, thanks.
Link Posted: 6/5/2017 10:40:16 PM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 6/5/2017 11:03:41 PM EDT
[#10]
Cool, nice work. One of the many to do things on my list.
Link Posted: 6/6/2017 1:29:22 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dryflash3:
So my best loads were;

15.0 grs IMR-4227
16.0 grs 2400
16.0 grs H-4198
21.0 grs IMR-4895
22.0 grs IMR-4320
View Quote
I have never loaded lead bullets for an AR-15 but have always been impressed by H-4198 shooting 52/53 grain match bullets.

My go to load for any brand is 20.6 grains. I don't weigh them individually either. I just throw the charges on my Harrell's Precision and go shoot.

This is a maximum load (3177 fps from my Winchester M70) in spite of being close to 1.0 whole grain below most of my data sources.

This powder teamed with these light bullets is amazing on target. 1/2" ten shot groups on occasion, almost always under an inch.

It's very course, it looks like long sticks of mechanical pencil lead. It crunches all the time when thrown, but it doesn't effect accuracy.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 10:23:04 PM EDT
[#12]
VERY NICE
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 10:56:04 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 6/30/2017 1:43:10 PM EDT
[#14]
That's okay -- are you home today. I am -- I am getting my braces off today (thank God) LOL
Link Posted: 6/30/2017 1:52:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 6/30/2017 2:16:01 PM EDT
[#16]
Wow -- this is what I have been looking for --- thank you! Now I have some reading to go do....
Link Posted: 7/1/2017 10:51:16 AM EDT
[#17]
Great information, thanks!

My plan is to use powdercoated 223s for shooting steel, a sort of cheapskate frangible. It should work well as long as I keep the velocities as minimal as possible with positive, reliable function. And adequate accuracy of course.
Link Posted: 7/1/2017 6:41:35 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By anachronism:
Great information, thanks!

My plan is to use powdercoated 223s for shooting steel, a sort of cheapskate frangible. It should work well as long as I keep the velocities as minimal as possible with positive, reliable function. And adequate accuracy of course.
View Quote
This was my (our) plan as well. I have achieved everything you mentioned EXCEPT adequate accuracy.

It's kinda on the back burner for the time being but I'm hoping Hornady copper checks solves the accuracy issues.

I was getting an occasional 4-6 shot string to come in under 2" at 50 yards but typically the groups are 3 to 4 inches.  I have had issues with aluminum checks in 30 caliber so hopefully the copper checks will work for the 22 caliber too.

Motor
Link Posted: 7/2/2017 3:33:30 AM EDT
[#19]
Maybe try sizing the bullets to .226
Link Posted: 7/2/2017 1:38:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 500SWshooter:
Maybe try sizing the bullets to .226
View Quote
I size mine .2255"

I don't think .0005" is going to make any difference.

(Off topic but I see your "UN" and have to comment) We have 4, 500's and love shooting powder coated cast bullets from them. Mostly mild loads the hottest is a 440gr at 1450f/s.

Motor
Link Posted: 7/2/2017 9:58:58 PM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 7/2/2017 11:15:48 PM EDT
[#22]
I don't think I'd quench them either. The only caliber that makes me want to quench PC cast is 357 SIG. I have concerns about unquenched bullets riveting below the neck, so my SIG will get hardened bullets to hopefully avoid something that may not happen anyway
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