I've always been curious about the amount of performance increase one would see shooting, say, .45LC out of a rifle as opposed to a revolver. My brain tells me you wouldn't see much but then my brain is getting less reliable as I get older.

If you handload you can maximize the performance gain but generally with most pistol calibers you gain around 10-15% velocity boost from pistol length barrel to a 16" carbine.

depending on barrel length, some, none, or a decrease.

ballistics by the inch has shown slow rounds from long barrels can actually peak in the barrel then slow backdown as the expanding gas runs out of ass.

My Rossi 45LC 20” is a beast.  I handload and the Rossi is tough.  No way these rounds would work in a pistol but sure is fun in the rifle.

So if I'm understanding correctly shooting pistol ammo that's loaded for pistol thru a rifle kind of under cuts the advantage of having a rifle/pistol combo that can shoot the same round?

357 Magnum and 44 Magnum both work extremely well out of carbines.  No need for special loadings, I am not sure where that BS comes from.  Almost all center fire ammo gains velocity from a longer barrel, especially going from a pistol length to a carbine/rifle length barrel.  357 Magnum really benefits from the longer barrel usually getting 300-500 fps boost in velocity going from a 5-inch revolver to a 16 inch barrel carbine.  44 magnum usually get 200-300 fps boost.  Assuming you're pushing 45 Colt beyond SAAMI's 14,000psi peak pressure you will get similar performance boost to 44 Magnum.   Combine the velocity boost with the simple fact that it is easier to shoot a rifle accurately than a pistol the over all performance both in ballistics and accuracy is significant going from a pistol to rifle even when firing the same pistol cartridge.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/44mag.html

In 357, the speed increase is dramatic when you go from a 4" revolver to a 16" rifle barrel.  Dramatic means 600 to 1,000 fps more (1200 fps from revolver and 1800 to 2200 fps from rifle).  Numbers are approximate.

The difference is so great, I wonder about the integrity/use of a hollow point handgun bullet fired at these higher velocities.

How much of that translate to the 45LC cartridge I do not know.

On average rounds go about 100 FPS faster in the 7.5 inch Scorpion barrel as opposed to the 4.6 inch barrel of the Phantom. That seems to be true of handload and factory.

The range increase for most would be due more to the shooters ability to make better hits than velocity differences. Sure once you get out of the envelope the bullet was designed to perform in that is something but if one could shoot their 8" 44Mag as well as their 1894 at 100 yds. I doubt there is going to be that much difference. You are talking about 150fps or so with a 240 gr bullet. Chose that example as the 44 is probably the most common deer combo round and a 7.5" Ruger or 8-3/8 Smith is a true hunting set up.

Yep .22 LR is one of those.  Go watch someone shoot a CZ ultra lux with a 28” barrel.  The sound reduction is the impressive part.

Well yes and no.

Like any two firearms they have reloading preferences but a like caliber pistol and Carbine have vastly different optimized loadings.    Quick burning powder in the pistol length barrel versus one set up for a Carbine which would be better with a slower burn powder to take advantage of the extra barrel.

No harm in running one in the other assuming you keep pressures down for the pistol but there you’ve reduced your optimum rifle load.  Compromise is a compromise.

And then some pistol caliber carbines don’t always shoot factory made for pistol ammo all that well.  That said as a reloader I would certainly try to make a load for both.   If I saw a nice us d .357 lever gun without ugly safety I might buy it.   My lever gun is a .30-30.  Personally I would be cautious to have some loaded up for the rifle that could hurt a pistol.   It’d be my luck to get a loose round from the rifle in one of my pistols.    Just my thoughts.

Most of the loading manuals will have separate areas ie .357 in pistol section and another .357 magnum listing in the rifle section.

Where to do you get the BS?  You don't have to keep the pressure down for a pistol.  If the ammo is loaded to SAAMI spec it is safe for both the rifle and the pistol, no questions.  This optimized for a rifle is also somewhat full of BS.  Yes as reloader you can load cartridges with slower powders to takes better advantage of the rifle's longer barrel but that results in relatively minor gains compared to just using regular pistol loads in the rifle length barrel.  With center fire cartridges, even center fire pistol cartridges the barrel has to get really long before you start to see a decrease in velocity.  A 16 inch 357 magnum is always going to be faster than a 4-6 inch revolver with any ammo, even ammo marked for short barrel pistols.

Show me a commercial ammunition manufacture that sells 357 Mag or 44 Mag ammo that is made for a rifle and is not recommended for a pistol.  It does not exist.  I can't even find one that is loading those cartridge with loads specialized for rifles.

If you look at Hodgdon's website they have load data for 357 Mag and 44 Mag for both rifles and pistols but if you compare the data many of the loads are identical in powder charge and pressure they are simply reporting the velocity from a pistol or rifle length barrel.

A pistol caliber carbine is a significantly better performer both in ballistics and accuracy than a pistol of the same caliber almost without question.

With my Rossi 45LC (20" barrel) and cowboy loads I get about a 100-120 fps increase. Went from Winchester's stated 750 fps on the box to 860 fps.

My Grizzly 265 grain hunting ammo went from 950 fps stated on the box to 975-977 fps, smaller increase.

My chrony is pretty accurate.

Data from my own testing on American Eagle factory 158g JSP .357 mag loads

4" S&W model 66 - 1282 fps
6" S&W model 66 - 1278 fps
Marlin 1894 20" bbl - 1820 fps

The revolver data is kind of odd but the ES and SD were both higher on the 6" bbl revolver. I've also shot many many rounds out of that gun since I bought it new in 1986. The 4" 66 looks like it has had almost no rounds through it.

This is about what I see in 45LC.  Don’t know about pistol loads but 1700 250g isn’t too bad

This is similar to what I've seen and posted above.  Useful range is entirely up to the shooter.

It's not 45LC but it is probably still relevant.

I don't believe the discussion of 22LR is particularly relevant because it is such an 'underpowdered' cartridge, very unlike 357.

My sons Ruger pistol fires a 45LC at ~800fps and his 20" leveraction fires the exact same load at 1210fps.

It is a 5" Vaquero.

While their results are accurate, they can be misleading.  Why?  Because they use commercial 357mag ammo brands specifically developed for use in a pistol, i.e. developed specifically for a short barrel.  Rifles have longer barrels and so a powder formulated specifically for a short barrel isn't necessarily going to do well in a longer one.  Seems logical but is there any data supporting this, you ask?

Yes, plenty.  For example I handload for my Rossi 357mag 20" carbine and 24" rifle leverguns.  I use 158grn bullets and handload full power loads with H110 powder, a magnum pistol powder actually developed for use in shotguns but found to work well in large cased, magnum pistol calibers like the 357mag, 41mag, and 44mag.  I've chrono'd my results and my full power handloads achieve the following results from both my leverguns as well as a 7.5" barreled pistol.

Std SAAMI Full Charge of H110
7.5" Pistol Average Velocity:  1,382fps
20" Carbine Average Velocity:  1,789fps
24" Rifle Average Velocity:  1,822fps

Hot, Near Elmer Keith Level Charge of H110
7.5" Pistol Average Velocity:  1,398fps
20" Carbine Average Velocity:  1,941fps
24" Rifle Average Velocity:  1,976fps

Clearly, the longer, 20" barreled carbine produced much higher velocities than even a long barreled pistol and just as clearly, the 24" barreled rifle produced even higher velocities.  That's because the powder used in the cartridge was a magnum pistol powder developed originally for use in shotguns, very long barreled arms.

Don't believe my chrono results?  Consider Buffalo Bore's 357mag Heavy custom ammo.  It's blended to provide premium performance, even in carbine length barrels using combinations of powders the handloader doesn't have access to.  Their results as published on their webpage for their 158grn Heavy 357mag load.

5" S&W 27 Pistol:  1,457fps
18.5" Marlin Levergun:  2,153fps

Now, consider what 'Ballistics by the Inch' is showing in it's data and how that might change if they used ammo for their test with a magnum pistol powder or custom performance blend rather than the fast pistol powders the commercial ammo producers use in their normal ammo loaded for pistols.

Based upon the above, I'll now address the 'range increase' question the OP asked.  With my 357mag rifle, I've added a target tang rear and globe front sight giving me a 30" sight radius (distance between front and rear sight).  With that rifle, and using my standard full power 158grn loads, I use that rifle almost exclusively to shoot at targets at 300yds.

While I also have a 19" and 24" set of 45 Colt leverguns, they are Uberti clones of 1866 and 1873 Winchesters which means that their actions are not suited for Ruger only level loads.  Therefore, I shoot only std pressure (less than 14,000psi) 255grn handloads through them and the 300yd performance of the 24" 1873 rifle is about on par as the 300yd performance with the 19" 1866 carbine.  While I haven't gotten around to chrono'g my handloads yet (planned for the summer) I believe that the lower power loads are producing the same or a bit slower velocities in the 24" barrel and so my 19" carbine actually seems to do better at 300yds.

That said, 300yds is a long way to shoot an iron sighted weapon firing pistol bullets.  At 200yds, both my 45 Colt leverguns and my 357mag leverguns are surprisingly accurate with the nod going to my Rossi 357mags over my Uberti 45 Colts.  6"-8" steel plates are possible from the bench on a good day.

Wow I wouldn't even think about shooting a pistol caliber out of a lever gun at 200 yard targets much less 300 except out of curiosity.

You should try it, it's great fun. Both of my Rossi 357mag leverguns are surprisingly accurate with my 158grn handloads, even out to 300 yds. I've tried farther but the ballistics of the rd start really working against me and any wind starts to really make a difference.  My favorite target is bowling pins at 200 yds with most of my iron sighted rifles.  Both my Rossi 257mag rifle and Uberti 45 Colt rifle, with their tang sights producing a 30" sight radius, make it fairly easy to hit them as long as I keep to my fundamentals even though only a small area on the 15" high pin (about 2" high) is at 2 MOA wide.  Because the pin tapers in above and below it's 'waistline' much of it is actually quite thin. Clay pigeons at 100 to 150 yds with them are also great fun.   The fact is that well over 90% of all my rifle shooting is at 200 yds or greater as it hard and helps keep me sharp.  'Aim Small, Miss Small' is my motto and practice at longer ranges forces me to keep the fundamentals in mind.

I shoot at the pins regularly with my M1 Garand, M1A, Mini-14, Rossi 357mag rifle, Uberti 45 Colt rifle, Mossberg 464 30-30, AR carbine, and even my M1 Carbine, however, it's just barely consistent enough accuracy wise to be able to do the job. Heck, if the wind is light, I'll even try my hand at it with my little Henry 22lr for grins. Every so often I give them a go with my Rossi 357mag and my Uberti 45 Colt carbines but the sights are not precise enough with my older eyes to reliably hit them. Besides, the rifles are set up for the longer ranges so why not use them for that?

I also shoot the pins at 300 yds with my Rossi rifle, however, in truth, I have to be really on that day to hit them, and I also use my scoped rifles; my AR rifle, Win 88, and Savage 99 to keep sharp with them too. I've sometimes used a my scoped AR to try to hit the 1" bulb on the top of the pin at 200 yds, however, a 1/2 MOA target at 200 yds is a real challenge, even with a scope.   The only rifle that stays home is our Win 70 as it's my son's favorite and his to use and in truth, I like my 88 better.  Fact is, my scoped A4 AR is set up specifically to do long range shooting; shooting medium sized apples at 400 yds.  It's a blast with my son and his Savage 10 and we don't have to recover our used targets because they are food for any animals.  I've developed a 68grn Hornady HPBT load both guns like and we love to take a few bags of apples, set them out at random ranges between 400 - 450 yds and then spot for each other.  No, it's not easy at all.  Doping the wind isn't my strong suite and my son is much better at it than I am.  But when you're 'on' that day and you see that apple just disappear in the scope, it's a rush.

I find that long range shooting regularly is great practice for all my shooting as it shows up immediately if you are getting sloppy with your technique or fundamentals.  It forces me to concentrate on doing everything precisely and consistently and it's what I like.  I've never been good at shooting paper as the repetition is boring to me.  I know it takes skill and practice and many like it but I've always been more of a plinker.  I'm the guy that learned to shoot at targets of opportunity at random ranges and never the same one twice.  I still love the challenge of it.  That's why I still shoot after learning 62 yrs ago from my dad as an 8 yr old kid.

I like XTP's for bullets that will work well at 4" and 18/20" barrel velocities. In .44 mag for me, but man, some of those .357 carbine loads are very impressive.
I interchange ammo between revolver and baby rifle so no tailored loads for each, that would defeat the purpose for my use.

I (also) don't get this idea of ammo that's safe in your carbine will blow up your handgun???? Maybe you could find an odd combination of very strong carbine action paired with very weak handgun action, but I doubt it under any normal circumstances.

You’re getting hot and bothered when we are in agreement.  And your calling BS is BS.  And in your own argument you agree that a reloader can change a powder for a tuned special performance in a rifle.  That’s what I said. Many a rifle will hold a lot more than the saami limit.  A Winchester high Wall clone or Ruger number three will easily do so.   Saami limit on our example .357 is 35000psi or 45000cup.  The Ruger number three will easily handle 50k psi cartridges.   The saami limit on .357 MAXIMUM is 40k psi.  They lengthened the case is the only case difference that I know of.   That said some handguns were made for the .357 max and were later dropped.  I suspect some of those handguns didn’t hold up to a steady diet of 40k psi.   That was around the time when CUP was the measuring standard in most places.  A lot of old data was based on sticky case extraction and harder to open bolts as a sign you went too far.   Old pressure measuring I think is spooky compared to the piezo stuff.  Little matter to me as I’m not a recoil junkie.

Of course no manufacturer is going to make a commercial round above saami spec.  They cannot control who buys what and what they put it in.

Your pressure limits are the casing design and the rifle design.  A solid single shot rifle can handle more pressure than a model 19.   Are you going to find data published? F no.

Would I load up extra power single shot ammo and try to keep them segregated ? F no.  Could one?  Yes.
Are you completely on your own when doing so?  Absolutely yes.

There is a lot of stuff done in the experimentation zone by reloaders, some is adventurous/sporty or stupid depending on your point of view.  I generally stay in the book myself.  I have no need to super charge anything.   Hell most of my loading is tame as hell.

I am not recommending the practice either, just discussing it.

XTPs do work well as do Zero's 158grn JSP.  I just like Zero's a bit better as the sp forms a nice blunt nose giving it a good flat metplat to smack the game and then expand. I use them in my 300 yd 'accuracy' loads in my Rossi rile and recently I've changed my powder from H110 to Lil'Gun as I get almost the same velocities with a max load but with a much lower peak pressure which means it's much less harsh on my brass, and as the Lil'Gun load is a full case, the accuracy seems a bit better with the near 100% case density.

As to the idea of rifle ammo not being safe in a pistol; it's a real concern.  For instance, the Rossi's action is really strong, strong enough to fire Ruger Only 45 Colt 25,000psi loads vs a standard 45 Colt max of 14,000psi and even 454 Casull loads at up to 65,000psi.  My hot 357mag loads are at Elmer Keith levels of 40,000psi (357 Maximum level) vs SAAMI max of 35,000psi for a normal 357mag.  A Uberti or Colt SA pistol is simply not strong enough to withstand Elmer Keith level 357mag or Ruger Only 45 Colt loads (hence the name Ruger Only).  Using them could blow up your gun which would spoil your day (as well as your hand and possibly your face and/or eyes).

My simple solution is to load all of my full power 357mag rifle loads in brass cases and my low power 357mag pistol loads for my SA Uberti Cav model in nickel plated cases.  I can tell at a glance whether I'm loading a pistol or rifle rd.  Simple.  And, even though my 45 Colt platforms are Uberti '66 and '73 clones with the weaker toggle link action and I restrict even my rifle loads to 14,000psi, I also load up low power plinking rds for my Uberti SA Army model pistol.  I don't have any nickel plated 45 Colt brass so the way I tell them apart is to load my 255grn lead Elmer Keith style bullets in my pistol loads and to load 255grn X-Treme plated bullets in my rifle loads (the rifles don't like the the shoulder on the Elmer Keith so they can hang up) so that again, I can tell it I have a rifle or pistol rd by sight (and even by feel).

That's why I mentioned "odd combinations" and "normal circumstances". Your comment (in bold) I would consider unusual. Most people are not loading 357 that far above saami specs and if they are we hope they have enough sense to not stuff them in a 1950's SAA.
My Ruger #1 45-70 handloads will launch trapdoor parts into the next county, but again that's an extreme.  And 45 Colt and 45-70 are cases where some guns run fine on feed that disassembles older designs but of course that's well known.
The difference in 357 mag is so much smaller to be ignorable with normal 357 magnum ammo imo.

I've never used Zero bullets but my question would be do they perform at both 4" and 18-20" velocities in your 357?
My uses would be 44 mag but would be happy to know of another bullet that works at those different speeds. Other than hard cast of course. Not that I'll need to buy bullets for several years, but ya never know

Most of my loads are at the SAAMI spec level, even a lot of the loads I shoot out to 300 yds, but I'm showing the performance you can get with the caliber.  My point really was to respond to the question about loads that work fine in a levergun but are too hot for a pistol.  I've shot the Zero JSP in my 7.5" Uberti at SAAMI spec levels and it seems to perform well.  It was designed for use in a pistol after all.

Saw a slow motion video of a guy shooting an M1 carbine at a 300 yard 12" steel plate. Camera was behind the shoulder. Watching the arc on the bullet was LOL awesome.

I have and shoot 2 M1 Carbines; a '43 GI NPM that's pristine shape and now too valuable to shoot and a Auto Ordnance M1 Carbine I got new in 2012 that's surprisingly much more accurate than my NPM and neither of them is much good at 300 yds accuracy wise compared to my 24" Rossi shooting 158grn 357mag loads.  Not just because the Rossi has almost twice the sight radius with the tang and globe, it's just a more accurate round/rifle combination, even with my 20" carbine with a sight radius more like that on my M1 Carbines.  I get a kick out of shooting the carbine but it's really better under 200 yds, even with my handloads.

LOL!

The arc is the drop.  As long as velocity is consistent, the drop will be consistent.  The problem with these loads is the wind.  The same looong time of flight that results in a large drop also allows the wind to move these low BC bullets sideways, BIGTIME!  And as we all know, the wind is not consistent.

I am pleased to hear the XTP's hold together under the higher velocities seen coming out of a rifle.  I thought pistol bullets were not likely to survive 2,000 fps hits.

Not really.....

Increased sight length, does wonders for pistol ammo though a rifle vs when fired through a pistol.  Of course, there are also limitations with having too much barrel.

Aloha, Mark

The 'arc' you are talking about is the trajectory of the bullet.  All projectiles free flying through the air follow a trajectory.

I have a low profile M1 carbine and love shooting it. Can't remember right now what make it is. Plan on taking it deer hunting one of these years. Gonna try and keep the shots 100 yards and closer which is pretty much the right distance for our area.

Funny how a lot of people say its not good enough for deer when it has the energy out to 100 yards of a hot loaded .357 magnum pistol round and then some.

I can't think of anyone who would recommend hunting deer out at 100 yds with a 357mag pistol, any 357mag pistol.  As to comparing the ballistics of a 35cal, 158grn 357mag rd shot through a 20" carbine (something many people use) vs 30 cal, 110grn 30 Carbine rd shot through an M1 Carbine, I'm sorry but the ballistics say that the 357mag rd wins hands down in every category.

I have both, shoot both, and handload for both and the ballistics aren't even close.  Even shooting Buffalo Bore's hottest 30 Carbine ammo, the 30 Carbine rd doesn't come close to the performance of even my full power 357mag loads from my 20" Rossi levergun.  And if you step up to using Buffalo Bore's Heavy 357mag commercial ammo, the 357mag performance blows away even the hottest 30 Carbine.  In addition, both my loads and Buffalo Bore's loads do even better in my 24" Rossi rifle.  I'm afraid that the 30 Carbine just can't compare with the 357mag's bigger, heavier, and faster bullet:

Standard M1 Carbine Ammo
110grn, 30 Carbine at 1,950fps MV produces 929ft/lbs of ME, at 50 yds velocity is 1,724fps with a ME of 726ft/lbs, while at 100 yds it's velocity is 1,525fps with a ME of 568ft/lbs

Hot M1 Carbine - Buffalo Bore 30 Carbine Heavy Ammo
110grn, 30 Carbine at 2,122fps MV produces 1,100ft/lbs of ME, at 50 yds velocity is 1,882fps with a ME of 726ft/lbs, while at 100 yds it's velocity is 1,669fps with a ME of 680ft/lbs

My Rossi 20" Carbine - My Full Power Handloads
158grn, 357mag Carbine at 1,941fps MV produces 1,322ft/lbs of ME, at 50 yds velocity is 1,729fps with a ME of 1,0490ft/lbs, while at 100 yds it's velocity is 1,542fps with a ME of 834ft/lbs

My Rossi 20" Carbine - Buffalo Bore 357mag Heavy Ammo  (2,153fps out of an 18.5" Marlin)
158grn, 357mag Carbine at 2,170fps MV produces 1,652ft/lbs of ME, at 50 yds velocity is 1,941fps with a ME of 1,322ft/lbs, while at 100 yds it's velocity is 1,736fps with a ME of 1,057ft/lbs

Don't get me wrong, I love shooting my M1 Carbines (I have 2) and I think it makes a great HD weapon but as a deer hunting cartridge, it's really too small, even for the smallest white tail.  In fact, out here where the Mules deer are much larger, a 357mag isn't enough to hunt with either.  As our hunting regulations require at least 1,000ft/lbs of ME at 100 yds, even Buffalo Bore's heavy ammo is on the ragged edge of barely legal.

I beg to differ, all you have to do is search Google on how many people have downed deer with an M1 carbine. You can throw all the numbers at us you want, it still kills deer. You can reload and even buy higher power M1 30 carbine hunting rounds. I honestly would have thought better coming from you Steve?

Not arguing that it can kill them, heck a 22lr has brought down an elephant.  It's that it's not a good choice for a deer hunting rifle, even for small deer, at 100 yds as ewell44 had suggested.  Add to the fact that an M1 Carbine isn't known for being even a 'minute of coffer cup' shooter and you have a recipe for having to track a wounded animal a long way; not the ideal hunting scenario one would hope for.

Well to be fair at most it would be a 50 to 75 yard gun. But I'm not even sure if and when I'll get to it. I've got so many rifles to take deer hunting. Heck I used 3 different ones this past season just cuz.