So everyone says you need to fill out another form4 and pay $200 per item.
I talked to two trust lawyers today. They both said if my name is on the individual form4 or form1 and my trust is also in my name it adds like any other item. It’s under the umbrella of my name. Just like a car or jewelry. Still mine and no other form4s need to be filled out and no more tax stamps to pay. Why doesn’t anyone talk about this more? Makes sense when you think about it. Owners are not changing.

You and your trust are not the same legal entity. If you decide to go ahead with this plan, make sure those two trust lawyers you talked to today are on retainer.

That is because everyone is correct.

The ATF considers this a transfer, which requires a $200 tax stamp per NFA item. The NFRTR currently has you, the individual, as the registrant. Even though you are on the trust, the NFRTR would need to be updated to reflect that the trust now owns the NFA item. To accomplish this transfer of "ownership", you need to submit a form 4 and pay the $200 stamp.

Consider this, if you follow the two "lawyers" advice, what would happen if a trustee/RP that wasn't you was caught with the NFA item? Up to 10 years in prison, up to a possible $500k fine, and forfeiture of the NFA item.

Furthermore, a lot of states only allow NFA item ownership when it is done in compliance with federal law. So you would probably be adding some state charges on there as well.

I am not a lawyer, but the two people you talked to might not be either....

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Well the way they explained it to me is it’s still my item and others on the trust can’t touch them unless I move the item to the trust with another tax stamp. If that makes sense. They also said they have helped “hundreds of people set up these trusts like this”. Like the trust is the big umbrella over me and everyone I have in it. Then there is a little subsection for my individual nfa stuff.

Then it wouldn't belong to the trust...

what's the point of doing this?

a big reason people do trusts is for multiple RPs.

Hey I never heard about this before ether. I’m just asking around before I drop $3000 in new tax stamps.

If I'm understanding you correctly, the two "lawyers" told you that since you are the individual listed on the form 4/1 as well as the grantor/settlor of the trust, that you can just assign your individual items to the trust without needing a form 4.



But you then go on to say that it really doesn't belong to the trust unless you transfer it to the trust, which directly contradicts your previous statement of just adding the items to the trust.



In the end, the part that matters is what is in the NFRTR. Until a new form is submitted and approved, you as the individual will be listed as the registrant, not the trust or a pseudo trust or a hot dog in your backyard. If you want to change who the legal registrant is, then you would have to submit a form 4 for each individual item.

Well I don’t know anything about this. Kinda why I went with individual form1/4s. Maybe I’ll just leave it that way and when I die my kids can fight over it all and do free form5s

What do you want to happen after you die, and while you're alive? If you tell us, you'll get some good advice right here.

You could setup a trust for your children right now, and name it as the beneficiary for all your NFA items, or you can decide who will each receive what on Form 5.

Fuck that. I'd make these clowns put it in writing and then hire a good lawyer.

This is pretty timely. I had a meeting with my Trust lawyer yesterday. I have a family Trust along with an NFA Trust. These are two different entities. Everything that I own  is in the Family Trust except the NFA items. The NFA Trust was done to form-1 items when you could do an electronic 30 day turnaround with no prints or LEO signoff. Some of the SBRs SBSs and suppressors are in it. My family Trust was for estate planning.

On my demise my personal NFA items are willed to the NFA Trust. Those items will transfer tax free but the kids will all have to do prints and pass background checks to have the transfer go through. I would have to do a $200 taxed paid transfer to move my NFA items to the gun Trust. A trust is an entity just like a person or corporation or LLC.

Your Trust lawyers are correct in reference to you and your Trust except for the NFA. They are not NFA lawyers or the criminal lawyers you would need if you followed their advice. And that is the reason nobody talks more about this. It is because it is incorrect and violates NFA law.

So that’s a good idea. Upon My death my individual nfa items transfer to my nfa trust. So I need to set up a nfa trust. Would that be less of a headache then them doing individual form5 from me?

A NFA trust will require that all members of the trust have to submit prints their picture alone with filling out the form. This would also apply to individual transfers too. How many people will be in your NFA trust? Depending on the kids desires it may be better to leave the guns to individual kids Either way they are all required to do the paper work.

The lawyers are correct to the State level. Any assets can be identified in a trust per your state laws; however, in the eyes of the Feds (ATF), the firearm is still registered as an individual.

This is like medical marijuana.  Some states say it is legal, but it is still illegal at the Federal level since it is a schedule 1 drug.

Moral of the story, go to an NFA attorney.  If the trustees want the privileges of the NFA trust, the firearm will need to be transferred at the federal level; meaning another stamp to transfer.  This has been discussed to exhaustion about 20 years ago.