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Posted: 9/7/2018 12:38:27 PM EDT
Finally stepped up and have one on the way, now I'm working on the rest of the bits and pieces and would like to pick up a decent IR laser without breaking the bank. While I understand "buy once, cry once", a MAWL simply isn't in the budget at the moment and even if it were, I'm not sure I need that level of performance.

The OTAL-C IR seems to be have solid reviews and with it being in the $300-$400 range, is entirely doable. I doubt I'm going to do much out past 200-300 yards, and from what I've seen, the OTAL-C should handle those distances without any issues.

It looks like they are out of stock pretty much everywhere right now. Anyone know if these are released in "batches" and this is just a lull between productions? Is there a revised version about to drop that I should wait for?

Any input or recommendations?

Thanks!
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 1:06:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 1:19:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 1:44:11 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC:
Like to point out...In a few months many will see something that will be HUGELY cost effective and serve the needs of the IR community. More to come.....
View Quote
interested in hearing more.... big improvement over the OTAL-C?

I've liked my OTAL-C so far. I eventually want to get a better unit down the road - but it has served its use so far.
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 3:12:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TNVC:
Like to point out...In a few months many will see something that will be HUGELY cost effective and serve the needs of the IR community. More to come.....
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You definitely have my interest.
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 3:18:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 3:49:32 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC:
Like to point out...In a few months many will see something that will be HUGELY cost effective and serve the needs of the IR community. More to come.....
View Quote
YOU HAVE MY ATTENTION
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 4:07:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2018 4:14:10 PM EDT by DogWizard]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lowdown3:
Steiner gets behind on stuff like this, very common occurrence. This dry spot in OTALs has lasted a little longer than normal however.

Great unit, very basic but works well. Put battery in, remove lens cover, push pad to activate.

No way to accidentally hit the visible laser- there is none. Something to think about in regards to ND's of light/laser at the wrong time. As always the answer is training, but you may be under stress, have not trained with your gear as much as you should have, or it might be in use by a family member that isn't the super trooper you may be. Also, AA battery which is more common than CR123s

In short, lots of reasons to like the OTAL-C
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lowdown3:
Steiner gets behind on stuff like this, very common occurrence. This dry spot in OTALs has lasted a little longer than normal however.

Great unit, very basic but works well. Put battery in, remove lens cover, push pad to activate.

No way to accidentally hit the visible laser- there is none. Something to think about in regards to ND's of light/laser at the wrong time. As always the answer is training, but you may be under stress, have not trained with your gear as much as you should have, or it might be in use by a family member that isn't the super trooper you may be. Also, AA battery which is more common than CR123s

In short, lots of reasons to like the OTAL-C
I appreciate it - that's exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. Everything I've seen leads me to believe it would work well for my needs, and the lack of a visible laser is not an issue. The lower cost, smaller size, and simple functionality make it an attractive option.

Thanks!

Originally Posted By TNVC:
Like to point out...In a few months many will see something that will be HUGELY cost effective and serve the needs of the IR community. More to come.....
Looking forward to it - more options are always a good thing!
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 5:32:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2018 5:32:23 PM EDT by HK94dude]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC:
Like to point out...In a few months many will see something that will be HUGELY cost effective and serve the needs of the IR community. More to come.....
View Quote
.....and here I am about to buy another CQBL-1
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 6:59:10 PM EDT
Will this item be for sale and in inventory in Nov?
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 7:37:09 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC:
Like to point out...In a few months many will see something that will be HUGELY cost effective and serve the needs of the IR community. More to come.....
View Quote
Please say mini MAWL.
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 7:42:42 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By NVjunkie:

Please say mini MAWL.
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Link Posted: 9/7/2018 8:16:09 PM EDT
I just bought a Streamlight 69166. IR illuminator and IR laser. Just played with it a little bit so far but it ought to be fine for what I want it for. I am going to put it on my suppressed 15-22 SBR.

Anyone tried one of these?
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 9:34:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2018 7:54:51 AM EDT by 1ipschoser]
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 11:15:20 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By criley:
I just bought a Streamlight 69166. IR illuminator and IR laser. Just played with it a little bit so far but it ought to be fine for what I want it for. I am going to put it on my suppressed 15-22 SBR.

Anyone tried one of these?
View Quote
I have one and really like it. The illuminator/laser is very powerful for the small size and footprint and the cost is very good as well. It’s an underrated piece in my opinion.
Link Posted: 9/8/2018 1:39:39 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Zac87:

I have one and really like it. The illuminator/laser is very powerful for the small size and footprint and the cost is very good as well. It’s an underrated piece in my opinion.
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Good to hear!

I am anxious to mount it up and try it out!
Link Posted: 9/10/2018 12:32:41 AM EDT
I ran an OTAL for a couple of years, and then ponied up the money for the single spectrum DBAL i2. It was REALLY nice having the illuminator and laser activated by the same button. I still have it on my primary 5.56 gun, but my hunting rig now wears a DBAL D2 which is just absolutely fantastic. The slaved visible laser makes sighting in a breeze, and the illuminator on the D2 runs circles around the illuminator on the i2.

All that being said, the OTAL is a fine piece of gear.
Link Posted: 9/10/2018 1:22:36 AM EDT
IMHO a D2 is the best bang for your buck at the moment. Used I've seen them for as low as 850. It has the same reach as the MAWL C1+. The main difference is the MAWL has faster switching between near and far illuminator and the illuminator is laser based. If that's worth 1,650.00 more go for it. The OTAL-C is a great unit but the lack of an illuminator is not an option IMHO. I paired my OTAL with a SureFire M622V and run tape switches at 12:00 and 3:00 on a thin profile rail. It allows me to activate either simultaneously or independently. The M622V has both IR and white light with a twist of the head. For hunting it works ok, but if you need white light in a hurry then you may want a different alternative or run a separate white light or illuminatior.
Link Posted: 9/10/2018 1:23:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2018 1:24:04 AM EDT by MunnyShot]
Double tap
Link Posted: 9/10/2018 1:40:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2018 11:34:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2018 11:37:27 PM EDT by boltcatch]
I have a few of these lasers (OTALs). My 2 cents;

- Lack of a visible laser isn't a big deal as long as you have a NV compatible red dot to use along with it. Zero the dot during the day, adjust laser to match the dot at night while pointing at something ~500-800 yards away. The laser adjustments are somewhat coarse, so dot/laser convergence as far as you can see them and a perfect parallel zero are typically the exact same adjustment.

- I prefer laser units with a visible laser for really short SBRs; you can ditch irons altogether and use the visible laser as a backup, or use something like the Railscales LEAF. This saves valuable space.

- Switches for illumination are the big problem for the OTAL-C. The effective ways to fix this tend to be expensive (Steiner lights with IR capability + OEM Y-cables, dual lead switches with Surefire IR lights, etc) which sort of negates the point of having a less expensive IR laser in the first place.

This is important because the IR pointer is visible for hundreds of yards (minimum), but you can have trouble spotting a target even as close as 50 yards. Hard to aim at stuff you can't see, especially when the OTAL-C doesn't have a "low" setting for the pointer. Illumination helps keep the laser dot from blooming.

...

- If you can hold out to see what TNVC is hinting at (I have no idea what it is), it's possible to take an NV compatible red dot and an IR LED light and be good to go for recreational shooting immediately - just sight through the red dot and use the IR light for illumination with whatever switch/tailcap works for you. It's not ideal for some uses but it most certainly works.
Link Posted: 9/11/2018 12:35:32 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC:

IMHO, yes in many ways Sir. We will show and tell in November.
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Have been waiting to buy an IR laser since getting two PVS-14s this spring. Was thinking it was about time to pull the trigger, but I guess I can wait two more months.
Link Posted: 9/11/2018 5:30:11 PM EDT
Thanks for all the recommendations and info - I really appreciate it. Still not exactly sure if I want to jump on an OTAL-C, spring for a DBAL, or wait and see what shows up in the next couple of months, but it sounds like none of those options would be a mistake.

I will need some type of illumination as well, so that's something else to consider.

Thanks again!
Link Posted: 9/12/2018 11:00:51 AM EDT
I am not much of a fan of lasers for long distance hunting shots.
Around here, the biggest critter I would ordinarily shoot is a coyote, and I don't get a kick out of wounding them.

My Steiner and Laser Devices DBAL lasers diverge to a few inches in 100 yards or so. Fairly round dots about 3" across.
At 200 or 300 yards the beam would be much larger than the quick kill zone, and at those distances with a 1X PVS-14 I know that I would, at best, be able to see only that the dot and the coyote were pretty close to each other. Not good enough for me.

So, for precision shots, I aim through the EOTech and use that nice, precise, 1 mil dot. Sometimes, looking through the EOTech dims the view enough that I want a little illumination boost. Else, if I am in a stand, I might put the magnifier on my helmet mounted PVS-14 so I can see the laser dot and target with far better definition.

I have decided to use laser aiming pretty much only for close engagements and fast action engagements (Pretty much just at ranges where I could use the red laser on my snub-nosed revolver). I do all my other shooting through the EOTech.

Using extra powerful illumination to help reduce laser blooming never appealed to me.
I see the comments suggesting it all the time. To my way of thinking, if you need illumination to see the target, you need illumination. But if you need to reduce laser glare/blooming/"splash", then you need a $15 neutral density filter (or two) for the laser. If you need both, you are out-driving your headlights and need to reassess your NV sighting equipment needs.

Night vision is cool. Lasers are cool.
But when being covert is not critical clear through until after the shooting is over with, many of my most challenging night shots on animals have been much better and more wisely solved with an accurate scoped rifle and a spotlight.
There's no nice way to say it in the NV Forum, but it's a fact, that where amplified IR NV is concerned, even the best gear won't match what your eyeballs can do if you toss in adequate visible light, and the best IR converting magnified scopes are no match for standard optical rifle scopes in terms of available features and flexibility.
Thermal, of course, tosses in a whole new layer of magic, but presents problems of its own.
Using visible light for the shot can certainly be far more efficient if you have NV or thermal to first locate the critter and know just where to light it up.

I have thermal, standard NV, and visible light shooting gear and a few kinds of experience with them all.

Just one man's considered opinions. I know and have read many opinions in opposition. Choose from any you like, that's what we do.
Link Posted: 9/12/2018 12:27:51 PM EDT
I ordered an OTAL-C around March. When I got it the adjustment caps were switched...ie...The "up/down" label was actually on the "left/right" knob. Confused the hell out of me for a while! Sent to Steiner and they fixed it up no hassle.

The unit is small, lightweight and perfect for just that....A small, lightweight IR laser. That said, its not nearly as bright as I would like. I've seen mention of 500 yards here....Not with my unit you damn sure wouldnt. Much past 100 and its very, very faint. I'm wanting to try a different IR unit simply because this one is so anemic.
Link Posted: 9/12/2018 1:29:49 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 2JokersWild:
I ordered an OTAL-C around March. When I got it the adjustment caps were switched...ie...The "up/down" label was actually on the "left/right" knob. Confused the hell out of me for a while! Sent to Steiner and they fixed it up no hassle.

The unit is small, lightweight and perfect for just that....A small, lightweight IR laser. That said, its not nearly as bright as I would like. I've seen mention of 500 yards here....Not with my unit you damn sure wouldnt. Much past 100 and its very, very faint. I'm wanting to try a different IR unit simply because this one is so anemic.
View Quote
Sounds like your OTAL is defective. I can see mine past 200 yards without a problem.
Link Posted: 9/12/2018 6:46:55 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC:
Like to point out...In a few months many will see something that will be HUGELY cost effective and serve the needs of the IR community. More to come.....
View Quote
Impatiently in.
Link Posted: 9/14/2018 10:15:39 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 2JokersWild:
I ordered an OTAL-C around March. When I got it the adjustment caps were switched...ie...The "up/down" label was actually on the "left/right" knob. Confused the hell out of me for a while! Sent to Steiner and they fixed it up no hassle.

The unit is small, lightweight and perfect for just that....A small, lightweight IR laser. That said, its not nearly as bright as I would like. I've seen mention of 500 yards here....Not with my unit you damn sure wouldnt. Much past 100 and its very, very faint. I'm wanting to try a different IR unit simply because this one is so anemic.
View Quote
I can see the laser on my C for a good 400 yards. But that is out in the boonies with only star light and a good Gen 3 PVS14.
My poor-mans solution is using an OTAL-C along with a Vampire light. Both switches are on a vertical grip. I can chose laser, IR illumination, or both. I practice while out walking trails at night and it works (for me).
Link Posted: 9/14/2018 10:46:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2018 11:14:51 AM EDT by lilMAC25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC:
Like to point out...In a few months many will see something that will be HUGELY cost effective and serve the needs of the IR community. More to come.....
View Quote


By the way, I like the idea of the new Night Optics device

https://www.nightoptics.com/product/NC50.htm

I’ll have to break down and grab one soon.
Link Posted: 9/18/2018 6:11:12 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC:
Like to point out...In a few months many will see something that will be HUGELY cost effective and serve the needs of the IR community. More to come.....
View Quote
Wish this was about to come out a few years ago whatever it is. I am interested, however I am about to pick up the US Nightvision unit to try out. Will have to see how it compares to the MAWL when it finally shows up.
Link Posted: 9/18/2018 11:19:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2018 12:45:39 PM EDT by lilMAC25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Feeble-Prize:
I am not much of a fan of lasers for long distance hunting shots.
Around here, the biggest critter I would ordinarily shoot is a coyote, and I don't get a kick out of wounding them.

My Steiner and Laser Devices DBAL lasers diverge to a few inches in 100 yards or so. Fairly round dots about 3" across.
At 200 or 300 yards the beam would be much larger than the quick kill zone, and at those distances with a 1X PVS-14 I know that I would, at best, be able to see only that the dot and the coyote were pretty close to each other. Not good enough for me.

So, for precision shots, I aim through the EOTech and use that nice, precise, 1 mil dot. Sometimes, looking through the EOTech dims the view enough that I want a little illumination boost. Else, if I am in a stand, I might put the magnifier on my helmet mounted PVS-14 so I can see the laser dot and target with far better definition.

I have decided to use laser aiming pretty much only for close engagements and fast action engagements (Pretty much just at ranges where I could use the red laser on my snub-nosed revolver). I do all my other shooting through the EOTech.

Using extra powerful illumination to help reduce laser blooming never appealed to me.
I see the comments suggesting it all the time. To my way of thinking, if you need illumination to see the target, you need illumination. But if you need to reduce laser glare/blooming/"splash", then you need a $15 neutral density filter (or two) for the laser. If you need both, you are out-driving your headlights and need to reassess your NV sighting equipment needs.

Night vision is cool. Lasers are cool.
But when being covert is not critical clear through until after the shooting is over with, many of my most challenging night shots on animals have been much better and more wisely solved with an accurate scoped rifle and a spotlight.
There's no nice way to say it in the NV Forum, but it's a fact, that where amplified IR NV is concerned, even the best gear won't match what your eyeballs can do if you toss in adequate visible light, and the best IR converting magnified scopes are no match for standard optical rifle scopes in terms of available features and flexibility.
Thermal, of course, tosses in a whole new layer of magic, but presents problems of its own.
Using visible light for the shot can certainly be far more efficient if you have NV or thermal to first locate the critter and know just where to light it up.

I have thermal, standard NV, and visible light shooting gear and a few kinds of experience with them all.

Just one man's considered opinions. I know and have read many opinions in opposition. Choose from any you like, that's what we do.
View Quote
A clip on or dedicated NVG scope would solve a LOT of those issues.

My D740 is far and away the clearest NOD I own, probably due to the 100mm objective lens. It’s awesome enough that I’ve seriously considered selling my Flir 640 50mm Thermal to partially fund some Binos.

ETA: there is a Gen 3 SIMRAD NOD clipon in the EE for $1650. Yeah, it’s a pig, but it’s a pig because the lens is massive.
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