Trip info on Page 2
Update on Page 2 - These things shoot really well. Sub MOA from a 55g FMJ is possible.

As many of you know, Palmetto State Armory has started selling projectiles. I ordered 1,000 of the 55g FMJ as I wanted to work up a plinking load with H-335. H-335 seems to be more readily available and I'd like to save my 8208-xbr. Currently, my "go-to" 223 load is a 55g SP Midsouth Shooters Supply Varmint Nightmare - which wouldn't surprise me if it was a Hornady 2266 repackaged, over 25g of 8208-xbr. This generally nets me about 1.25-1.5 MOA at 100 yards depending on if I weigh the charges vs. run them through the LnL AP, mixed cases, etc.

I consider myself an "intermediate" reloader. I fully understand how to prep brass, weigh charges, etc. I've never gotten really great SDs out of 223, but I've also never used virgin brass or sorted LC brass by year. I will get single digit SD from my Grendel or my 300 BO when making hunting loads. I'm not a great shot, but decent.

Summary:
Bases of the PSA AAC 55g FMJ are not square. Accuracy is not good at all. 3-4" groups at 100 yards that look more like patterns. I wish I had only ordered 250 of them. The remaining 965 or so I have left will be taking up space until I'm either desperate or have an extra 1,000 primers and some powder to get rid of.

Disclaimer: I have no dog in the fight brand wise. I'm a PSA fan, but also a MSS fan. PSA does a LOT for our community so I WANTED these to work as I believe they deserve our support. MSS seems like a nice, family run business. Generally, these retailers are my "go-to" behind my LGS (I always shop local first on everything.)

Initial observation:
They come packaged in neat ziplock bags of 250 rounds. I pulled 25 at random out of one bag and weighed them and found the weights to be very consistent. Of the 20, the low was 55.1g, the high was 55.2g. This looked promising, but I looked at one standing upright on the scale platform and thought "That doesn't look like it is pointing straight up." So I lined them up on the ceramic stove top and used an Apple trackpad as a straight edge:
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They looked much worse in real life. For comparison, here is 25 Midsouth Varmint Nightmare:
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So, I worked up a load using:
Cases - 1x LC, mixed years
Primer - CCI #41
Powder - H-335. Starting load of 23.0g, going up in .5g increments to 25.0g. All charges were hand thrown and trickled up using an RCBS 505 scale.
Firearm - Home built AR. Seekins 1:8 223 Wylde barrel, Aero Precision upper, PSA Meme lower, 2A lightweight and adjustable BCG, CMMG two stage trigger. I built this gun for new shooters and with 69g SMK is capable of .75 MOA.

I shot them in "kind of a" Round Robin in that I shot five rounds of 23.0g with Varmint Nightmare, then five rounds of 23.0g with AAC, then five rounds of 23.5g Varmint Nightmare, then 5 rounds of 23.5g AAC, etc.

For a rest I used one of these on a 6' folding table and chair. So, that was pretty steady.

I'll post the chrono data, but I'm not sure why my ES and SD are all so high. However, the target tells the tale. I may have to post images on a followup post.
23.0g
Varmint Nightmare:
Average2651.6
Extreme Spread134
Standard Dev.54.9
Group size: 1.34

AAC:
Average2683.6
Extreme Spread51
Standard Dev.21.9
Group size: 3.66

23.5g
Varmint Nightmare:
Average2767.2
Extreme Spread120
Standard Dev.50.2
Group size: .98. This was my best group.
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AAC:
Average2786.5
Extreme Spread36
Standard Dev.15.8
Group size: 3.04
For comparison:
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One of the holes is obscured by the caliper, but it doesn't matter. Here they are for comparison:
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24.0g
Varmint Nightmare:
Average2832.8Extreme Spread99
Standard Dev.40.9
Group size: 1.28

AAC:
Average2807.8
Extreme Spread85
Standard Dev.33.7
Group size: 4.81

24.5g
Varmint Nightmare:
Average2891.6
Extreme Spread91
Standard Dev.39.8
Group size: 1.33

AAC:
Average2868.6
Extreme Spread74
Standard Dev.27.1
Group size: 4.13

25.0
Varmint Nightmare:
Average2948.6
Extreme Spread91
Standard Dev.35.7
Group size: 2.03
This was the worst group and the closest in size to the AAC, however you can see that while mathematically it's "close", visually it's completely different.
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AAC:
Average2962.8
Extreme Spread96
Standard Dev.39.6
Group size: 3.34
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I'm happy to upload the remaining photos if you all think that would be helpful, but I think the above kind of tells the tale. All are similar when compared side by side.

Again, I WANTED these to work because I like PSA and believe they are good people. But for my use, I'll stick with the Varmint Nightmare.

ETA: more images.

They are new to this whole ammo and components thing.I have no doubt they’ll get it figured out.

Agreed. And when they do, I'll be back in line. I'm not going to post a negative review on the bullets because for some, a 3" group at 100 yards is fine. When I used to do 2Gun matches, none of the targets were past 50 yards. Plus, I am sure PSA will find this thread and they likely have done similar testing. If you look at the listing they show the bases of the bullets and they look a bit "funky".

Look how long it took RMR to get their 69g to market. I think there's still some kinks with that one too.

Nice writeup/range report OP. Thanks for sharing this. Like the other person stated, hopefully PSA will correct/improve on them.

I have a favorable opinion of PSA, I own PSA branded stuff snd I want them to succeed in their ammo business.  

But those bullets look terrible.

Those PSA bullets remind me of a bunch of Winchester 55 grain FMJBT bullets I bought years ago.

Lead sticking out of the bottom of some, flush on some, a depression (lack of lead) in the bottoms of others.  Shot like total crap.  Never bought anymore Winchester 55 grain FMJ bullets.

With bullets like that it really doesn't matter what powder you try, the accuracy issue it the bullet.

Jackets on the varmint soft points are drawn from one direction, jackets on the fmj are drawn from the other. The first leads itself to very consistent bases, the second not at all.

You may be a little spoiled by the performance of the soft points, and not as aware that fmj is as bad as it is generally.

2-4 moa with xm193 isn't outside the norm. And your loads might be a little low on the velocity to even make a xm193 comparison. I wouldn't knock PSA too hard for QC on those projectiles.

When I started loading 223 I used exclusively Hornady 55g FMJ. They shot pretty well. I tried the SP as everyone said they were "better" and I think it made about a .25 - .50" difference in average group size. Just barely enough to say "Yep, that's consistently better.".  So, these didn't compare favorably to those either.

I am sure they will get it sorted out. In the meantime, for those folks shooting inside 25 or 50 yards, such as a buddy of mine who has an AR pistol with a red dot, these would be fine. Or if you are trying to hit an 8" or 10" plate at 100 yards.

Mean radius mo betta.

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If it was factory, I’d chalk it up to just being ball ammo. Since they’re hand loads I’d expect more like 2-1/2moa on the bad end.

What happens if you cull the cockeyed ones?

Nice post and thanks for sharing your work.

High volume bullet manufacturing machines are both expensive and a challenge to run, I wish them well.

I have tried to do this a couple of times but just could not get the dots lined up. I agree your method is superior, especially as, if I remember correctly, you recommended 10 shot groups and your way removes concerns about flyers. I just can't seem to get the programs to work.

Thank you.

I was wondering that myself, but didn't want to hassle. Now you've done it. I'll find 10 that look good and load them up at 23.5g. That seemed to be the best charge with both. It will be a couple of weeks though. Will update this thread then.

Really though, 4moa is just the bad end of factory fmj. So it’s not like you’re completely out in left field throwing dogturds at the target.

Then what happens if you somehow shot 5 of 10 being cockeyed, when only 5/100 are bad? Then you get down to more like 2-1/2moa without the cockeyed ones. Easy enough to set the bullet on the table before seating if you’re loading single. Kinda in a bad spot if you want to load them progressive, but then I guess that depends on how much you really enjoy just loading versus your financial situation.

OP, have you contacted to Josiah?  I would be interested to hear what they say and they might need the feedback for product improvement.

Excellent report, thanks.

UPDATE:

At the suggestion of @fritztkatt I went looking for 10 bullets that "by my eyes" would line up evenly. The theory being if they stand straight and uniform, maybe they will shoot better. After going through more than 100, I was able to sort out these. I used a white background to make it easier for me to see.

PSA 55g FMJ
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For reference here are the Midsouth Varmint Nightmare under same photo conditions
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You'll notice, that with the high res photos, they are still pretty inconsistent. Zoom out to where they look "actual size" and they looked pretty good.

So, next up was to hand weigh 20 charges of H-335 at 23.5g as that was the best charge for both. Then shoot five of one, five of the other, five of the first and five of the second. I didn't bother with the chrony this time.

NOTE: On the Varmint Nightmare I completely messed up the first two shots. Just wasn't settled in. I'm counting them as "called" as I swore after the shot broke. Still, there is actually 10 shots on that target. Discounting the two it's a 1.4" group. So, about average for me. I can do a bit better if I take all day, but I was a bit rushed yesterday.

On the PSA, there's nine holes as one of them was off the top. I used new cardboard backers just in case. It wasn't that far off, so we're looking at like 4.5".

These are both a bit high as I didn't have the can on.
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Be all that as it may, there is still a wild difference between the two. And while 3-4 MOA is "average for bulk ammo", given the PSA FMJs are the same price as the Varmint Nightmare, the only advantage for the PSA would be if they are available and nothing else is. I just don't see getting better than 3-4 MOA out of these and for me, I need a bit better. I'm not going to bag on PSA or give them a bad review. As others have said "that's average". And 3-4 MOA may be considered a "win" for them at this stage. I'm super happy to see other players entering the market and I don't want to do anything to dissuade that. The minute they start selling primers as components, I'll give those a go as well.

As mentioned, I WANT them to succeed. Competition is good and we need someone to motivate Vista and other established brands. These just aren't quite there yet for me.

Good research and write-ups OP.

Thanks for doing the work

You are both welcome. I appreciate the kind words.

After about nine years, it's about time I give something back, eh @dryflash3 ? lol

Well, at least you know they’re just not that high quality, even cherry picked. It’s disappointing. I was hoping you’d get down to more like 2moa.

I had missed that they cost the same as a JSP. Definitely not worth the money when other options are available. Maybe PSA will get their setup tuned in better and produce a higher quality product in the coming months.

Great review!

55 FMJ bullets have always been iffy but they were 5-7 cents a piece, and the Varmint Nightmare were 10 cents.  The only 55 FMJ bullets that I have ever seen get close to 1 MOA were from Lapua, and that is from a bolt gun that will shoot .25 MOA with match bullets.

In this crazy market, the VN  bullet is a great value, and I wouldn't even consider anything FMJ for accuracy purposes.

What advantages do those varmint nightmare bullets offer over traditional FMJ’s? I’ve seen them mentioned alot as of late.Also do they feed reliably in AR’s?

The below are my personal opinions. I've been shooting them for more than five years.

1. Accuracy. 1.25-1.5 MOA is expected. I've gotten individual groups down under 1 MOA, but I'm not a good enough shot to repeat it, so I don't count it. Because the copper jacket is swaged up from the bottom, you get a very uniform base. Same as an open tip match. Yes, the noses are deformed, but that matters a lot less. Especially for a 223.
2. Reliability. I have a Colt LE 6920 and a home built AR. I've never had a single issue feeding. That includes matches. I have a friend who runs a "youth team" and that's all he runs as well and his kids do very well. That story is a true labor of love.
3. It's a SP, so there's some varmint properties.
4. This is me personally so you make your own decisions but it was done with the approval of one of the head RSOs at our range. My accuracy node with these is around 2700 and change to low 2800. We tried it on AR500 steel at 50 yards and there was no damage. They gave me the go-ahead to shoot steel at 50 yards and up. So, that's kind of handy.
5. Price. When they are available, they are generally $.10 to .11. Back in the salad days, I passed on them at $.08 thinking "meh, maybe it'll go down more". Stupid.

They used to be flat based but a couple of years ago they went to a boat tail. I dug up some flat based I had and ran them through the LnL AP while I was bulk loading some of the others. I do think the boat tail performed better. But not enough to say.

I'm pretty sure they are repackaged Hornady. Likely seconds. I don't mean to sound like a salesman, but they are almost all I shoot in 223 (couple hundred 69g) so they are my defacto "control group".

Okay.I’m gonna try some out.Thanks for the info.

Well done Landshark.

Good work and good write-up, thanks for sharing your findings.

Customers should not have to be guinea pigs while a manufacturer is "figuring it out."  If a company wants its customers to be beta-testers, then the company should be upfront about it and offer the the product at a reduced price while they are "figuring it out."

OP, thanks for posting your data.  I was thinking of evaluating these bullets, but thanks to your data, I won't be wasting my time being a guinea pig.

....

Definitely saved me some money

I had 2k in the cart to try out


ETA; didn’t really save it, just changed where I spent it

@PalmettoStateArmory

Thanks for the writeup, well done.  At the current price of powder and primers, I hate to waste them on bullets that aren’t that accurate.  But I was in the local Sportsman’s Warehouse yesterday, and they wanted $100 for a box of 250 Nosler Custom Competition 69 gr BTHPs!  I did recently order some Hornady 55 gr FMJ’s from MidSouth on sale for $46.99 for 5 boxes of 100, not bulk plastic bagged.  And a year ago, grabbed 4,000 Wolf 55 gr FMJ’s for $204 + shipping, so I can see shooting 2-3 MOA groups if bullets are under .10.  But by far prefer the MidSouth Hornady 62 gr BTHP for .13 per and capable of sub MOA, or RMR’s 69 gr BTHP at .15 each for similar accuracy.  Nosler s at .40 each are a no go.  My 1 in 12” twist bolt gun loves the Hornady 50 gr SPSX, MidSouth has them for .15 and it shoots 5 of them under half an inch at 100 yards with 26.0 gr of TAC, when I do my part.

Pics of the bottom pls. Will you try the 115gr. 9mm?

Sig would like a word

Hey @snakeyes711, here are images of the bases. Don't pay any attention to the different heights. The jaws of that vise are not square. These were just some I fished out.




I have no intention of testing the 9mm. All my 9mm is cast boolits so it is not an apples to apples comparison. I currently have enough lead and alloy to last a long time. However, given that pistol bullets would not have the same issue on the base due to different construction (I think? Never bought a FMJ pistol bullet and only bought at most 2k of plated years ago), I would probably buy them with confidence- if I was the pistol bullet buying type. Remember, the weights of these were very good. The rest of it appeared so as well. It's just the bases, I think. I'll leave the pistol bullets to someone else.

Josiah did reach out to me today asking the lot number. Likely a result of @strikefirst hitting the Bat Signal. If there is anything to report, I will.

Again, if 3.5-4 MOA works for you, these could be a viable option. When I shot 2gun matches the targets were all 50 yards and in and speed was the rule, so these would have been fine. For me, I need to be able to make sure a novice can hit a 6" plate at 100 yards and if they miss, know it's them. Different goal.

Expect a new thread if they start selling and shipping small rifle primers..lol

@palmettostatearmory

I just read your post to my wife who said "Wow. That's like Publisher's Clearing House coming...for you. Whatever will you do?"
Me: "I will GO THERE!"


That's an incredible offer and zooming in on those, the do look different. Will need to figure out logistics and I will be putting in for some time off.

Now that ladies and gentlemen is what’s called “Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is.”

PSA amazes me pretty often but this one goes above and beyond.



Josiah, Jamin, Deb, and all......keep up the great work

Amazing.

Very generous off from PSA. Top shelf outfit.

Wow, PSA really stepped up!

I had sworn off PSA a few yews ago due to a bad barrel I purchased at the Greenville store, they now have my business back! I will order from them this evening!

Well done PSA

AMEN to that!

Holy shit PSA

That's why I've spent so much money with you guys

W O W

Please keep us updated!

I tagged Josiah because he helped me a few months back with a lost shipment.

I figured they'd help but this is a whole other level of service!

@landshark9025 I expect inside pictures man!

I’m gonna have to drop a tag on this thread now.

Yeah, @strikefirst, I officially owe you a beer or several.

All, I will update the thread when I have the trip scheduled and thereafter with results.

Outstanding, this is really something for PSA.  I'm looking forward to the outcome of the visit and testing!

Dang. Thread of the year material right here!

I had a problem with an order once, can I come too!?

Well done PSA.

2 coworkers of mine have fallen in love with PSA.
Their FFL loves them too.