User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
PA, USA
|
Posted: 4/7/2024 4:40:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RangeToy]
This is on a Ruger MK IV 22/45 Lite. Also have an Oculus that never shows any POI shift on this pistol, my 15-22 rifle or my AR22 pistol.
The Q wasn't loose and tried a few times. POI is always several MOA high. Is this normal? Not going to sight the pistol in every time it gets shot without the can. My wife shoots it most and not always with a can. EDIT 4/30: Took it to the range again this past weekend & same problem. Put a new o-ring on & good again. Using Viton o-rings FYI. I guess I have to replace the o-ring every 1 or 2 range sessions? What a PITA |
|
|
NE, USA
|
Posted: 4/7/2024 4:48:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Is the wave spring washer thats behind the thread protector installed with the can?
|
|
|
PA, USA
|
Posted: 4/7/2024 4:57:05 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jbooker82: Is the wave spring washer thats behind the thread protector installed with the can? Yes. It's always installed with the Oculus as well |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/7/2024 5:12:53 PM EDT
[#3]
I use an o-ring to mostly prevent the POI shift.
|
|
|
|
PA, USA
|
Posted: 4/7/2024 5:44:01 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DuneShoot: I use an o-ring to mostly prevent the POI shift. That may work, but why is there no shift w/the Oculus, but the Erector has such a drastic shift? |
|
|
OH, USA
|
Posted: 4/7/2024 5:48:33 PM EDT
[#5]
Is it heavier or lighter can. Weight affects my poi on pistols for me high or low until I get some practice in.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/7/2024 6:05:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Not really sure. Some type of harmonics thing with it being so light? I dunno.
|
|
|
|
PA, USA
|
Posted: 4/7/2024 6:14:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By belchfire: Is it heavier or lighter can. Weight affects my poi on pistols for me high or low until I get some practice in. THe Erector is a much lighter can. This is not about practice. This is several MOA too high. The Oculus has zero shift. |
|
|
NE, USA
|
Posted: 4/8/2024 10:43:17 AM EDT
[#8]
I would try it with out the wave washer. With nothing at all.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/8/2024 11:37:12 AM EDT
[#9]
Mine did the same thing and the oring fixed it.
|
|
|
|
PA, USA
|
Posted: 4/8/2024 5:10:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DuneShoot: Mine did the same thing and the oring fixed it. That's good to hear. Next trip I will try it with 2 less baffles & an o-ring without the wave washer. Did the o-ring fix yours in all configs? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/8/2024 6:08:00 PM EDT
[#11]
I tried shorter but went back to the longest coinfig since it stupid light weight.
|
|
|
|
PA, USA
|
Posted: 4/8/2024 6:37:28 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DuneShoot: I tried shorter but went back to the longest coinfig since it stupid light weight. Thank you. Good to know it ran ok in longest config w/the o-ring |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/9/2024 4:27:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Don't use that washer, no bueno on that aspect.
Is it grouping well still? POI shift is one thing, groups going haywire and projectiles tumbling is another. |
|
|
|
PA, USA
|
Posted: 4/9/2024 4:35:47 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Joshua_CapitolArmory: Don't use that washer, no bueno on that aspect. Is it grouping well still? POI shift is one thing, groups going haywire and projectiles tumbling is another. Doesn't group well either |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2024 9:04:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Have you tried it on any other guns?
I was having a major low shift, we're talking really really low at 10 yards. No baffle strikes. I have several models of that particular pistol and changed out the thread protector adapter today, completely fixed it. I can't help but wonder if there might be something going on with that particular suppressor since it's a direct thread with the Ruger. I've been shooting mine with a Kel-Tec p17. Love the combination. I'm shooting a phantom 22. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2024 11:09:37 PM EDT
[#16]
How does the POI with no can at all compare with the Erector POI?
|
|
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 4/13/2024 12:26:17 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Joshua_CapitolArmory: Don't use that washer, no bueno on that aspect. Is it grouping well still? POI shift is one thing, groups going haywire and projectiles tumbling is another. What problems do / can that washer cause? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2024 3:42:24 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By XTCBX: What problems do / can that washer cause? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By XTCBX: Originally Posted By Joshua_CapitolArmory: Don't use that washer, no bueno on that aspect. Is it grouping well still? POI shift is one thing, groups going haywire and projectiles tumbling is another. What problems do / can that washer cause? Wife's MKIV lite, first time I mounted a can (rugged mustang) I checked alignment using an alignment rod and alignment was off. Probably not enough to cause a baffle or end cap strike but enough to give me pause.. Loosened the can and snugged it up again, still not perfectly aligned. Rotated the rod with no change in miss alignment position so it's not the rod.. Removed the can, spring washer and cleaned the threads, shoulder and washer, not that either had any visible buildup. Again, alignment was off but what the hell it changed position! After a couple times of shifting the washer and seeing the miss alignment change position I found my culprit. With the spring washer removed, my alignment rod was now as close to perfectly centered as my eyeball could detect. Neither accuracy or POI changed noticeable with the can. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to say this if I just sent it with the slight miss alignment the spring washer was inducing. I'm not going to prove this theory though |
|
|
|
VA, USA
|
Posted: 4/13/2024 6:38:03 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RangeToy: THe Erector is a much lighter can. This is not about practice. This is several MOA too high. The Oculus has zero shift. You are saying "Several MOA too high" A 4 MOA shift would only be an inch at 25 yards. That's not unusual. How much shift are you getting at what distance? I don't have a Q erector. But, the only time I've had a massive POI shift it was over almost two feet high and left at 25 yards. Accuracy was terrible. When I checked my suppressor alignment with an alignment rod, the rod was kissing baffles about half way down the suppressor. Funny thing was it didn't look like there were any baffle or end cap strikes. The culprit was a QD Adapter I was trying to use that was out of spec. Removed the adapter, used direct thread and it worked fine. My guess is if you are getting massive POI shift you are getting baffle strikes, even if they are very minor. I would recommend you check your alignment with a rod. |
|
|
PA, USA
|
Posted: 4/15/2024 11:00:36 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VaFish: You are saying "Several MOA too high" A 4 MOA shift would only be an inch at 25 yards. That's not unusual. How much shift are you getting at what distance? I don't have a Q erector. But, the only time I've had a massive POI shift it was over almost two feet high and left at 25 yards. Accuracy was terrible. When I checked my suppressor alignment with an alignment rod, the rod was kissing baffles about half way down the suppressor. Funny thing was it didn't look like there were any baffle or end cap strikes. The culprit was a QD Adapter I was trying to use that was out of spec. Removed the adapter, used direct thread and it worked fine. My guess is if you are getting massive POI shift you are getting baffle strikes, even if they are very minor. I would recommend you check your alignment with a rod. On that trip, we only went out to 10 yards. Anyway, ran it again today with an o-ring and problem solved so thank you to the poster(s) that suggested that. Even tried the o-ring with the Oculus 22 since I never ran one with it and GTG there too. |
|
|
PA, USA
|
Posted: Yesterday 7:57:38 PM EDT
[#21]
Took it to the range again this past weekend & same problem. Put a new o-ring on & good again. Using Viton o-rings FYI. I guess I have to replace the o-ring every 1 or 2 range sessions? What a PITA
|
|
|
|
Posted: Yesterday 10:01:25 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RangeToy: Took it to the range again this past weekend & same problem. Put a new o-ring on & good again. Using Viton o-rings FYI. I guess I have to replace the o-ring every 1 or 2 range sessions? What a PITA |
|
|
|
MI, USA
|
Posted: Today 8:56:53 AM EDT
[#23]
Don't use the spring washer with the can. Accidentally left it on my mkiv one time and got a significant poi shift.
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: Today 1:00:03 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RangeToy: On that trip, we only went out to 10 yards. Anyway, ran it again today with an o-ring and problem solved so thank you to the poster(s) that suggested that. Even tried the o-ring with the Oculus 22 since I never ran one with it and GTG there too. Where do you put the o-ring when using the Oculus? I didn't think it was designed for one |
|
|
|
Posted: Today 2:53:16 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bully13: Where do you put the o-ring when using the Oculus? I didn't think it was designed for one Your barrel shoulder. Only if you need one. If the silencer doesn't thread all the way to your barrel shoulder and snug, then you should use a shim. I have 4 oculus's and 2 mustang's and only have to use a washer with my ruger american rimfire rifles. Some .22 rifle barrels have a thread length of 0.625”, same as an AR. Most .22 suppressors usually have a shorter thread length, a little under 0.4” and so they don’t have enough internal threading to go all the way down the barrel shoulder. A number of places make spacers of 0.25” specifically to span the gap between the barrel shoulder and the suppressor. Shims are a common fix, or you can use something like this: https://silencerco.com/shop/delta-threaded-rifle-spacer-1-2-28/ The barrel on the american rimfire isn't threaded all the way to the shoulder, there is a decent size relief cut. Suppressor alignment surface is the shoulder at the back of the threads. The barrel threads look like this.  Attached FileIf your barrel looks like the schematic above, you will need a shim or spacer. I was shooting almost a full 2 feet low at 50 yards. Added a 0.25" shim and my point of impact changed back to exactly how it was without the silencer and even tighter groups. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: Today 3:01:03 PM EDT
[#26]
No spacer
 Spacer 
|
|
|
|
PA, USA
|
Posted: Today 3:22:53 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bully13: Where do you put the o-ring when using the Oculus? I didn't think it was designed for one I only tried the o-ring w/the Oculus that previous one time just to see. I never use one for that and it always runs fine |
|
|
PA, USA
|
Posted: Today 3:27:26 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mindfull: Your barrel shoulder. Only if you need one. If the silencer doesn't thread all the way to your barrel shoulder and snug, then you should use a shim. I have 4 oculus's and 2 mustang's and only have to use a washer with my ruger american rimfire rifles. Some .22 rifle barrels have a thread length of 0.625”, same as an AR. Most .22 suppressors usually have a shorter thread length, a little under 0.4” and so they don’t have enough internal threading to go all the way down the barrel shoulder. A number of places make spacers of 0.25” specifically to span the gap between the barrel shoulder and the suppressor. Shims are a common fix, or you can use something like this: https://silencerco.com/shop/delta-threaded-rifle-spacer-1-2-28/ The barrel on the american rimfire isn't threaded all the way to the shoulder, there is a decent size relief cut. Suppressor alignment surface is the shoulder at the back of the threads. The barrel threads look like this. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/310007/F7D600FA-5A69-42CD-8CE1-074E60B9D9DB_zps-2977920.JPG If your barrel looks like the schematic above, you will need a shim or spacer. I was shooting almost a full 2 feet low at 50 yards. Added a 0.25" shim and my point of impact changed back to exactly how it was without the silencer and even tighter groups. I'm going to have to just try this spacer |
|
|
|
Posted: Today 3:35:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Mindfull]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RangeToy: I'm going to have to just try this spacer Just go to the hardware store and buy some different sizes washers and use the one that will snug up your silencer to your barrel shoulder. Thats all the shims are anyways. You probably have some right sized washers already in a drawer somewhere. I would try that to see if it actually helps before spending $30. My guess it that the washer will work. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: Today 10:05:53 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mindfull: Your barrel shoulder. Only if you need one. If the silencer doesn't thread all the way to your barrel shoulder and snug, then you should use a shim. I have 4 oculus's and 2 mustang's and only have to use a washer with my ruger american rimfire rifles. Some .22 rifle barrels have a thread length of 0.625”, same as an AR. Most .22 suppressors usually have a shorter thread length, a little under 0.4” and so they don’t have enough internal threading to go all the way down the barrel shoulder. A number of places make spacers of 0.25” specifically to span the gap between the barrel shoulder and the suppressor. Shims are a common fix, or you can use something like this: https://silencerco.com/shop/delta-threaded-rifle-spacer-1-2-28/ The barrel on the american rimfire isn't threaded all the way to the shoulder, there is a decent size relief cut. Suppressor alignment surface is the shoulder at the back of the threads. The barrel threads look like this. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/310007/F7D600FA-5A69-42CD-8CE1-074E60B9D9DB_zps-2977920.JPG If your barrel looks like the schematic above, you will need a shim or spacer. I was shooting almost a full 2 feet low at 50 yards. Added a 0.25" shim and my point of impact changed back to exactly how it was without the silencer and even tighter groups. I'm aware of using a shim or spacer, but using an o-ring in place of it seems like a bad idea |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
