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Posted: 1/11/2018 10:00:31 AM EDT
I got a POF reverse stretch from Atlantic a couple of months ago, runs great so far, just have not got to shoot it a lot yet. Anyways not to long ago I saw picture on the MP5 enthusiasts facebook page showing someone (maybe Kilo Guns) replacing a POF cocking tube that was twisted/canted. So I checked mine and sure enough it was just as bad. The charging handle is oriented towards the top much more than most MP5s and even POFs I see on the net, pointing up completely vertically when locked back and the slot in the cocking tube looks like someone pried it open with a crowbar. So I contacted Atlantic and I ended up sending it to FedArms for them to inspect. They said it is within their spec and nothing wrong with it but they would refund me if I wanted. Id rather have a twisted cocking tube than no MP5 so I kept it. So my question to y'all is should I pay PCS or Kilo Guns to replace the cocking tube or just run it as it came from the Pakis? The only function it affects is slapping the handle down during reloads. I Have a PTR91 and its much easier to slap it down being oriented properly.
Pic of cocking tube 
Pic of photogenic side of POF 
edit: fixed pics |
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Posted: 1/11/2018 10:16:44 AM EDT
[#1]
N/M, should have read the whole post instead of skimming.
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Posted: 1/11/2018 10:32:00 AM EDT
[#2]
How much is the fix? I don't know if I would do a fix just for that but maybe a fix in conjunction with adding a pic rail to the top or something like that might be worthwhile.
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Posted: 1/11/2018 10:38:41 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much is the fix? I don't know if I would do a fix just for that but maybe a fix in conjunction with adding a pic rail to the top or something like that might be worthwhile. |
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Posted: 1/11/2018 11:30:15 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Around $175 - $200 not including parts or refinish. I can refinish it myself, and a refinish for a POF wouldn't be such a bad idea anyways. |
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Posted: 1/11/2018 12:03:56 PM EDT
[#5]
Was this a blem?
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Posted: 1/11/2018 12:11:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was this a blem? |
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Posted: 1/11/2018 1:07:41 PM EDT
[#7]
That looks jacked up. It does look like it was pried open to allow the cocking handle to move freely enough to charge the weapon.
 Attached File Attached FileHad to check my Z5K |
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Posted: 1/11/2018 1:47:36 PM EDT
[#8]
If it doesn't affect function I'd leave it as is and spend the fixing money on more mags or something. How well can you HK slap with the optic so close on the K model anyways?
You have excellent taste in housings and rails just like me. 
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Posted: 1/11/2018 5:34:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it doesn't affect function I'd leave it as is and spend the fixing money on more mags or something. How well can you HK slap with the optic so close on the K model anyways?
You have excellent taste in housings and rails just like me.
http://i.imgur.com/XdGTAQ5.jpg I wondered the same thing about the optic interfering with the "slap" (which is why I bought the Botch first) but it surprisingly does not effect it that much. I imagine it would be even easier with a charging handle not pointing straight to the sky! haha |
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Posted: 1/11/2018 6:50:17 PM EDT
[#10]
The more I'm thinking about this I'd do one of two things, either keep it as is or take Fedarms up on their refund and then spend the difference and just buy a Zenith Z5P. They go for anywhere from 1600-1700. Otherwise what's the point of getting the POF over the Zenith if you're not saving any money?
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Posted: 1/11/2018 7:21:13 PM EDT
[#11]
To each his own, I'd get the refund. That kind of stuff drives me crazy when I notice it. If you're ok with it than that's all that matters, but jeez that looks bad.
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Posted: 1/11/2018 8:46:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Just looked at my ‘blem’ pof SMGPK and it’s not as bad as yours
 
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Posted: 1/11/2018 11:13:48 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The more I'm thinking about this I'd do one of two things, either keep it as is or take Fedarms up on their refund and then spend the difference and just buy a Zenith Z5P. They go for anywhere from 1600-1700. Otherwise what's the point of getting the POF over the Zenith if you're not saving any money? I kept it bc I wanted a reverse stretch, and figured if it bothers me enough I can always have it fixed. I know I'm at Zenith prices total by then but at least it would look as nice as a Zenith at that point even if it still is a POF
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Posted: 1/15/2018 8:56:51 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just looked at my ‘blem’ pof SMGPK and it’s not as bad as yours https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/198239/80482814-FEFD-4BA3-8E33-E1B1F523F121-417650.jpghttps://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/198239/B6CCA518-9401-4F8B-8B03-B6393B274251-417651.jpg |
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Posted: 1/16/2018 1:17:02 AM EDT
[#15]
The fact that POF deliberately and severely pried open the charging handle slot demonstrates an utter contempt for their customers. I’ve been around firearms for over 40 years, yet I honestly am shocked! Apparently the POF motto is: “Nothing Goes to Waste”. Sorry OP, that pistol should never have left the factory in that condition. I would either have a new cocking tube welded in and refinish ($$$), or return it for a refund, before you possibly get the pleasure of “discovering” the next shady thing about it.
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Posted: 1/16/2018 11:29:10 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The fact that POF deliberately and severely pried open the charging handle slot demonstrates an utter contempt for their customers. I’ve been around firearms for over 40 years, yet I honestly am shocked! Apparently the POF motto is: “Nothing Goes to Waste”. Sorry OP, that pistol should never have left the factory in that condition. I would either have a new cocking tube welded in and refinish ($$$), or return it for a refund, before you possibly get the pleasure of “discovering” the next shady thing about it. |
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Posted: 1/16/2018 4:21:53 PM EDT
[#17]
I absolutely would take up whoever said they would refund you if you wanted. Regardless of if it's "within their spec", the fact that it was obviously pried open and then sold as "non blem" gun, is really shady and dishonest. Now if you had gone in knowing there were blem issues, that would be different. I personally would suspect there to be other issues. In a nut shell, return it and start from scratch.
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Posted: 1/16/2018 6:05:40 PM EDT
[#18]
Atlantic has great customer service . They have refunded me before when I received a messed up ddi ak47. Just give them a call and see what they say
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Posted: 1/17/2018 2:31:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That looks jacked up. It does look like it was pried open to allow the cocking handle to move freely enough to charge the weapon. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/330153/20180111_115729-417273.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/330153/20180111_121255-417278.JPG Had to check my Z5K I wouldn't even care about it being clocked wrong, but it literally looks pried open |
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Posted: 1/17/2018 4:53:27 PM EDT
[#20]
I emailed Atlantic yesterday saying unless there are other options that I have decided to get a refund. Id prefer a swap or a $200 refund because in the end I still want a POF, just one that isn't bent up, but I'm not sure if they will be up for that. Just waiting to hear back from them now.
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Posted: 1/17/2018 8:24:47 PM EDT
[#21]
I'd take the swap personally buy if you're ok with the $200 blem refund, that's all that matters. Atlantic should take care of you, they should have NEVER sold that gun as a non blem.
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Posted: 1/17/2018 9:01:42 PM EDT
[#22]
BESTILLER , We do not grade the POF guns or inspect each gun . The guns were graded by the importer and sold to us as a normal POF & not a blem. We ship over 200 plus firearms a day and can not do detailed inspections of each gun it would be impossible. We would not preform inspections unless we had a previous reason to do so & thus far we have had no reason to do so . I am not aware of any major firearms retailer going through each gun shipped QC is normally done @ the Factory.We would be glad to work with the customer and the importer to offer a full refund if they are not happy.
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Posted: 1/17/2018 9:10:02 PM EDT
[#23]
That's such a neat model of firearm. If it were mine I would ask for an exchange, contingent upon their prior inspection of the replacement.
I think Atlantic will take care of you to your satisfaction. |
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Posted: 1/17/2018 11:48:14 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BESTILLER , We do not grade the POF guns or inspect each gun . The guns were graded by the importer and sold to us as a normal POF & not a blem. We ship over 200 plus firearms a day and can not do detailed inspections of each gun it would be impossible. We would not preform inspections unless we had a previous reason to do so & thus far we have had no reason to do so . I am not aware of any major firearms retailer going through each gun shipped QC is normally done @ the Factory.We would be glad to work with the customer and the importer to offer a full refund if they are not happy. |
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Posted: 1/19/2018 1:01:13 AM EDT
[#25]
I spoke with Atlantic today and at this time they can only offer a refund as there are no POF RS in stock and FedArm doesn't know when another shipment is due. So I can take the refund and wait for another shipment and have Atlantic quality inspect a new one for me, but Im not sure how long that might be. Before commiting to this I looked around a little more and noticed that most POFs cocking tubes are clocked high like mine, so its very likely a new one will be clocked high as well. The jacked portion of the cocking tube doesn't seem to be as common of an issue but IMO it seems to be mostly a cosmetic issue. Now while the cocking tube is indeed ugly I didn't buy the POF for its good looks so I think I can live with it as long as the gun runs 100%.
It seems if my main concern is a lower clocked cocking tube I need to step up to a Zenith, but that is a $450 step. I can have a new one welded into mine for about $250 if I decided down the road to do that, maybe even add a sight rail while they have it. Or heck I work at a welding shop, maybe Ill do it myself
I was offered a full refund, so I have nothing but good things to say about Atlantic Firearms and their customer service. If I knew what to look for when I first received the gun I could have swapped it for another very easily. If these were in stock I would def take the swap, but not knowing how long that could be I think Ill just live with the ugly. This is America, I want it now! Really more than anything I just wanna put rounds downrange and I know Atlantic will take care of me if there turns out to be any issue that affects its function. I am gonna shoot it this weekend, I will report back how it goes. |
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Posted: 1/19/2018 7:08:32 AM EDT
[#26]
Yes please go run the crap out of the gun and if there are function issues as we mentioned before we would offer your a full refund. Let us know how the range trip goes for you !
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Posted: 1/20/2018 9:29:32 PM EDT
[#27]
Range update,
(Have shot approx 200 rounds through it before today) It ran okay today, had 4 failure to ejects in 200 rounds, at that point I dissassembled and wet the carrier down with CLP and shot 100 more without any issue. All FTE were American Eagle 115gr brass and in both a POF and USA mag. I tested a few steel cased Tula with no issues, so strangely enough I've only had FTE with brass. So either it's still breaking in or it just needed some CLP. Has this been similar to yalls experiences? The gun shoots incredibly smooth, possibly my favorite gun to shoot. Hopefully the FTE issues will go away, it is at least trending that way. |
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Posted: 1/21/2018 1:46:42 PM EDT
[#28]
I've only put 260 rounds through my Zenith Z-5RS but I had zero malfunctions thus far using MKE and POF magazines. I apply CLP liberally to all the various internal moving parts of the gun.
The only ammo I have put thru the gun is Prvi Partizan 115gr NATO. These guns like the hotter loaded stuff. |
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Posted: 2/14/2018 9:37:17 PM EDT
[#29]
I’ve finally decided I think I’m gonna take the refund. The jacked up cocking tube just constantly bugs me. And I think I’ll take this opportunity to get a K model. I would love a Zenith Z-5P but they are out of stock and a lot more coin. So now I’m thinking maybe an Omega mp5k? I’ve heard good things from them recently, namely battlefield Las Vegas using them. I was thinking about getting just an omega upper receiver and buying a G3 sef trigger pack since I already bought a new HK ejector lever and spring. I also have a G3 sef polymer housing I modified for the POF that I can modify for the K (or I may just buy a K housing). Does this sound like a good plan? Still new to the MP5 game and would like opinions.
The only reason I would go Zenith (if they were in stock) instead of this would be for the push pin lower, but I don’t know if that’s worth $300 more to me. |
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Posted: 2/15/2018 9:51:58 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’ve finally decided I think I’m gonna take the refund. The jacked up cocking tube just constantly bugs me. And I think I’ll take this opportunity to get a K model. I would love a Zenith Z-5P but they are out of stock and a lot more coin. So now I’m thinking maybe an Omega mp5k? I’ve heard good things from them recently, namely battlefield Las Vegas using them. I was thinking about getting just an omega upper receiver and buying a G3 sef trigger pack since I already bought a new HK ejector lever and spring. I also have a G3 sef polymer housing I modified for the POF that I can modify for the K (or I may just buy a K housing). Does this sound like a good plan? Still new to the MP5 game and would like opinions. The only reason I would go Zenith (if they were in stock) instead of this would be for the push pin lower, but I don’t know if that’s worth $300 more to me. If you look at the lower in this link, the pin holds the lower in the back were the recess in the metal tang is. MP5 Lower If you look at this MP5K lower, there is a full whole whole in rear of the lower and no tang. MP5K Lower Due to this difference, you will need to buy a new lower if you go with a K model. I can attach better pictures tonight to illustrate my point. |
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Posted: 2/15/2018 10:04:55 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can not modify a MP5 lower to fit a MP5K, the attachment points are different. The G3/MP5 lower attaches in the back of the lower by using a pin in a recess of the tang were the MP5K uses a full hole were the tang would be. If you look at the lower in this link, the pin holds the lower in the back were the recess in the metal tang is. MP5 Lower If you look at this MP5K lower, there is a full whole whole in rear of the lower and no tang. MP5K Lower Due to this difference, you will need to buy a new lower if you go with a K model. I can attach better pictures tonight to illustrate my point. |
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Posted: 2/15/2018 11:48:23 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know Id have to trim the rear tang off completely and then drill a hole through the housing itself for the rear pin, but I was under the impression this can be done? Im actually thinking I could snag a used complete metal G3 lower with trigger pack for cheap and convert it. I have a PTR91 lower I can use as a guide. If this proves too difficult though I have no issue buying a clipped mp5k lower. My main concern is about the Omega receiver, are these well regarded? I know the Bailey name is associated with them, but Atlantic stands by them and Las Vegas Battlefield uses them so that must mean something good. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: You can not modify a MP5 lower to fit a MP5K, the attachment points are different. The G3/MP5 lower attaches in the back of the lower by using a pin in a recess of the tang were the MP5K uses a full hole were the tang would be. If you look at the lower in this link, the pin holds the lower in the back were the recess in the metal tang is. MP5 Lower If you look at this MP5K lower, there is a full whole whole in rear of the lower and no tang. MP5K Lower Due to this difference, you will need to buy a new lower if you go with a K model. I can attach better pictures tonight to illustrate my point. As for the Omega offerings. I don't have one so i can't comment on how good they are. I do have a Bailey offering from about 10 years ago(Bobcat Weapons) and the only issue I had was a bad extractor spring. Once that was replaced it has worked fine for over a decade. I'll let someone else comment on the Omega's that has experience with them. |
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Posted: 2/15/2018 12:37:36 PM EDT
[#33]
I was going to convert a housing myself, but a guy on HKPro said he does them for $25 plus shipping.
Yeah, full G3 assemblies are cheap. I would look for the Navy SEF for the thinner grip, but thats me. |
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Posted: 2/15/2018 12:55:54 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was going to convert a housing myself, but a guy on HKPro said he does them for $25 plus shipping. Yeah, full G3 assemblies are cheap. I would look for the Navy SEF for the thinner grip, but thats me. |
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Posted: 2/15/2018 1:06:28 PM EDT
[#35]
Shoot till it will not work
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Posted: 2/15/2018 1:26:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He does both clipping and converting mp5 to mp5k on the housing? Cut off that metal stuff and drill a hole. The only thing I thought might be tough was some sort of counter sink for the pin head. I was 100% going to do it myseld but he found me the part and offered his service. I got lazy really fast!
I did not need him to cut the semi-shelf, but I can ask him how much that would be. I can post pictures of how it turns out or PM them to you. Should get it middle of next week. This is what I bought: 
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Posted: 2/15/2018 1:46:25 PM EDT
[#37]
 Attached FileDoing a clip and pin is a lot easier with the plastic lowers than with the old metal ones, this is the first one I ever did using an old G3 surplus lower. Super easy. |
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Posted: 2/15/2018 1:56:03 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/65327/IMG_20170204_170908-452667.JPG Doing a clip and pin is a lot easier with the plastic lowers than with the old metal ones, this is the first one I ever did using an old G3 surplus lower. Super easy. |
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Posted: 2/15/2018 2:17:36 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is exactly the lower I have now, do you have a link that shows how to clip and pin? My main concern is making sure it is clipped at the proper height. Throw it in a vise and file the inside tabs on both sides until you evenly remove the plastic and can see metal, then fit check it onto the upper. When that's done to "pin it" you need a small diameter HK pin, and you cut it using a hacksaw, dremel or angle grinder then epoxy it in. Watch out for the little bugger of a spring in there that could get lost if you're not careful. I epoxy that in as well but the whole "pin" portion is for looks only. If you're taking it a step further and cutting off the back to convert it for K use I've never done it but on forums and FB I've seen guys just put the lower on the upper, mark where the hole should be and then drill it out. |
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Posted: 2/15/2018 4:30:00 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All you need to do is get a file, get a decent one spend a whole IDK 7.00 at home depot make sure you get one that has a "safe edge" to it so you're not chewing up the lower. Throw it in a vise and file the inside tabs on both sides until you evenly remove the plastic and can see metal, then fit check it onto the upper. When that's done to "pin it" you need a small diameter HK pin, and you cut it using a hacksaw, dremel or angle grinder then epoxy it in. Watch out for the little bugger of a spring in there that could get lost if you're not careful. I epoxy that in as well but the whole "pin" portion is for looks only. If you're taking it a step further and cutting off the back to convert it for K use I've never done it but on forums and FB I've seen guys just put the lower on the upper, mark where the hole should be and then drill it out. What about modifying a full auto trigger pack into a semi? Are there any legal issues in ordering/possessing a full auto pack before I convert it? |
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Posted: 2/15/2018 5:52:51 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for the info! Doesn’t seem to bad, I just need to make sure the part that sits on the shelf is the proper height. What about modifying a full auto trigger pack into a semi? Are there any legal issues in ordering/possessing a full auto pack before I convert it? |
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Posted: 2/15/2018 7:07:00 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the info! Doesn’t seem to bad, I just need to make sure the part that sits on the shelf is the proper height. What about modifying a full auto trigger pack into a semi? Are there any legal issues in ordering/possessing a full auto pack before I convert it? There are no legal issue owning a full auto trigger pack as it wont physically fit on a semi-auto HK roller-locked style receiver. Converting a full auto pack into a semi is a pretty straight forward operation. The basic conversion process is. 1. Drill the semi-auto trigger stop pin hole and weld the stop pin in place. 2. Remove the full auto sear factory sear pin hole by cutting away that portion of the pack. 3. Drill the semi-auto elbow spring axle pin location. 4. Install semi-auto elbow spring, bushing and axle pin. 5. Grind down the nose of the trigger sear to clear the elbow spring so it doesn't catch. Its critical to have the semi-auto trigger stop pin permanently and properly installed. If the semi-auto trigger stop is not permanently installed the gun will still shoot full auto when the selector is set to auto as the trigger will still be able to actuate far enough to the rear to not allow the trigger sear to catch the hammer. The hammer will then follow the carrier home and slam fire the gun over and over until the trigger is released. While owning an unmodified full auto pack is ok...removal of the auto sear pin hole location (so it fits on a semi receiver) and then not properly welding in the semi stop pin mean you just made an illegal machinegun conversion pack. |
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Posted: 2/15/2018 11:17:49 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are no legal issue owning a full auto trigger pack as it wont physically fit on a semi-auto HK roller-locked style receiver. Converting a full auto pack into a semi is a pretty straight forward operation. The basic conversion process is. 1. Drill the semi-auto trigger stop pin hole and weld the stop pin in place. 2. Remove the full auto sear factory sear pin hole by cutting away that portion of the pack. 3. Drill the semi-auto elbow spring axle pin location. 4. Install semi-auto elbow spring, bushing and axle pin. 5. Grind down the nose of the trigger sear to clear the elbow spring so it doesn't catch. Its critical to have the semi-auto trigger stop pin permanently and properly installed. If the semi-auto trigger stop is not permanently installed the gun will still shoot full auto when the selector is set to auto as the trigger will still be able to actuate far enough to the rear to not allow the trigger sear to catch the hammer. The hammer will then follow the carrier home and slam fire the gun over and over until the trigger is released. While owning an unmodified full auto pack is ok...removal of the auto sear pin hole location (so it fits on a semi receiver) and then not properly welding in the semi stop pin mean you just made an illegal machinegun conversion pack. |
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Posted: 2/16/2018 2:31:28 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks so much for the detailed info! So I see now I need to buy an elbow spring and spacer, but what about the trigger stop pin? I don’t see those on hkparts The stop pin should just protrude through the inside of the trigger frame cage to prevent the trigger from actuating past that point. (Stop pin location is the red star)  Attached FileThe stop pin hits here to prevent the trigger from being depressed farther into the auto position where the trigger sear no longer can engage with the hammer sear notch.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/16/2018 8:28:13 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The stop pin is nothing but a short piece of 1/8 steel rod maybe 3mm long. When I have done the full to semi conversion I just cut off a piece of old 1/8 drill bit shank and then tig weld it into the 1/8" semi-auto stop pin hole I drilled in the trigger frame cage. The stop pin should just protrude through the inside of the trigger frame cage to prevent the trigger from actuating past that point. (Stop pin location is the red star) https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/3567/HKfulltosemi-453282.JPG The stop pin hits here to prevent the trigger from being depressed farther into the auto position where the trigger sear no longer can engage with the hammer sear notch. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/3567/hktrigger-453283.JPG |
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Posted: 2/16/2018 8:30:20 AM EDT
[#46]
I've shipped the POF back, so now I'm just waiting for it to arrive and then to receive my refund. Still eying an Omega K upper, does anybody have negative opinions on the Omega or should it be good to go?
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Posted: 2/16/2018 11:43:53 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've shipped the POF back, so now I'm just waiting for it to arrive and then to receive my refund. Still eying an Omega K upper, does anybody have negative opinions on the Omega or should it be good to go? |
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Posted: 2/16/2018 9:41:12 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you want a reverse reach out to Jeff Walters at Parabellum Combat. He's doing a run of Reverse Stretch Navy guns for 1790.00 plus shipping and he has fantastic quality, ues RCM barrels and LSC Flats. I'd do it soon I think he said he's only making 5 his next run. |
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Posted: 2/16/2018 11:33:28 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you want a reverse reach out to Jeff Walters at Parabellum Combat. He's doing a run of Reverse Stretch Navy guns for 1790.00 plus shipping and he has fantastic quality, ues RCM barrels and LSC Flats. I'd do it soon I think he said he's only making 5 his next run. I do know Omega uses RCM barrels and bolts as well though. |
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Posted: 2/17/2018 8:37:48 AM EDT
[#50]
I had to look at my POF again after reading this post and to my relief the cocking tube was perfect! Correct angle and everything. I really went over the whole gun again wields and everything and it is really better than I remember it! I have put 300-400 rounds down it , and probably 5 mags suppressed with 0 failures. I really like this gun. I think you just got a bad one? I would send it back and search for a new one. (I also did the G3 conversion!)
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