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Posted: 10/11/2020 4:38:25 PM EDT
If you guys don’t mind, I would appreciate if you would share your thoughts and experiences concerning optic height and a helmet mounted pvs14.  I am leaning really hard toward buying a pvs14 (like 90% getting one).  Before deciding that I wanted a pvs14, I had been planning on switching my optics over to a 1.93 height, mainly b/c it is uncomfortable for me to squench my old neck down on the rifle using traditional height mounts.  

I have a 16” rifle with an Elcan spectre dr and a 10.5” with an aimpoint T1.  I was thinking that after a certain amount of time, after I recovered from the purchase of the pvs14, I would put an ir laser/light on the sbr.  I would love to hear you guy’s thoughts on mounts and heights that you prefer and what has worked well for you.

I will say that years ago, I had an acog ta31 ecos and hated the chin weld that was required to use the red dot.  I’ll admit that I didn’t give it a chance though, so if required, I’m hoping I could get used to that height.  Thanks
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 4:49:38 PM EDT
This is a tricky conversation because there are just so many preferences for gear, shooting style, passive aiming vs active IR, budget, etc.

As for my NV sticks:

•MK18-FSP with an elcan Specter 1-4x. In the process of piggybacking an RMR. LA5 for the laser. Currently pretty much useless for passive aiming until I get the RMR mounted.

•MK18 URGI with an EXPS-3 on a unity riser. Excellent for passive shooting and has a PEQ15 that is easily cleared by the unity mount if that concerns you.

•11.5” BCM with a T2 on a unity mount. Also has a Peq15.

•14.5” Block III URGI with an Elcan 1.4-6x. Probably should get a piggy back optic for this one, but I rarely ever shoot it so not worth the money or trouble. Also has a Peq15.

For red dots, I think the extra height mounts are way better and they’re fine for day shooting too. I don’t even notice the chin weld anymore, it’s more of a heads up shooting style. It’s actually better as far as body mechanics are concerned since you no longer have to hunch into your rifle. But it’s a bit of a pain to shoot in the prone
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 5:03:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2020 5:04:06 PM EDT by bradpierson26]
Haven’t shot it yet but it’s a PRO in a 2.26”
It’s intuitive and easy to pick up though

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 5:28:28 PM EDT
IMHO 1.93 works well for me to shoot passively through a AimPoint T1, M2, M4 and a KAC micro rear sight with a JArm or Norotos DDA with the 24 over my dominant right eye. Some prefer higher mounts, but like you I don't like not having contact with my stock. With a 1.93 I can still maintain a decent weld day or night for a true 24/7 rig.
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 5:45:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2020 5:47:06 PM EDT by RogueYoda]
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Originally Posted By MunnyShot:
IMHO 1.93 works well for me to shoot passively through a AimPoint T1, M2, M4 and a KAC micro rear sight with a JArm or Norotos DDA with the 24 over my dominant right eye. Some prefer higher mounts, but like you I don't like not having contact with my stock. With a 1.93 I can still maintain a decent weld day or night for a true 24/7 rig.
View Quote


Without any experience, it seems like the higher fast mounts would certainly be better for passive use and the 1.93” mounts would be sort of a happy medium if a person was just shooting regular, without night vision, as well as using night vision when it is time for that.  Is it hard to get your pvs14 lined up behind the 1.93 mounts?

Once again, with zero experience, I feel like the 1.93 would be better all around if it is pretty easy to shoot with night vision.  

Is there a good way to look thru the elcan with the pvs14?  A riser?  Maybe it is better to just have a dedicated “night gun” and not worry about using multiple guns with night vision.
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 8:22:24 PM EDT
I just have an EOTech exps model with the Kinetic sidelok riser on my 300 blackout pistol and was just shooting the other night with it.
It lined up nice with the pvs14.
It's comfortable for day shooting too.

Link Posted: 10/11/2020 11:15:26 PM EDT
For those running monoculars are you just running the tube over your dominant shooting eye? Seems like most recommend over your non dominant eye but then you can't use the optic.  Are they just relying on lasers?
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 11:24:54 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By metalsaber:
For those running monoculars are you just running the tube over your dominant shooting eye? Seems like most recommend over your non dominant eye but then you can't use the optic.  Are they just relying on lasers?
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People who say that are giving bad advice. Yes, even John Lovell
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 11:45:46 PM EDT
I have a 1.93” and a 2.26”, they’re both good but I prefer the 2.26” both in the day and at night with a helmet/monocular
Link Posted: 10/12/2020 12:37:53 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By metalsaber:
For those running monoculars are you just running the tube over your dominant shooting eye? Seems like most recommend over your non dominant eye but then you can't use the optic.  Are they just relying on lasers?
View Quote

Over your non dominant eye is what I was taught long long ago, but most soon found out that running it over your dominant eye and further away from your face it was more natural to move, navigate and now you have the ability to sight through your RDS.
Link Posted: 10/12/2020 7:59:06 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By tlandoe07:


People who say that are giving bad advice. Yes, even John Lovell
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Originally Posted By tlandoe07:
Originally Posted By metalsaber:
For those running monoculars are you just running the tube over your dominant shooting eye? Seems like most recommend over your non dominant eye but then you can't use the optic.  Are they just relying on lasers?


People who say that are giving bad advice. Yes, even John Lovell
Good to know.  Thx
Link Posted: 10/12/2020 7:59:32 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By MunnyShot:

Over your non dominant eye is what I was taught long long ago, but most soon found out that running it over your dominant eye and further away from your face it was more natural to move, navigate and now you have the ability to sight through your RDS.
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Originally Posted By MunnyShot:
Originally Posted By metalsaber:
For those running monoculars are you just running the tube over your dominant shooting eye? Seems like most recommend over your non dominant eye but then you can't use the optic.  Are they just relying on lasers?

Over your non dominant eye is what I was taught long long ago, but most soon found out that running it over your dominant eye and further away from your face it was more natural to move, navigate and now you have the ability to sight through your RDS.
Awesome. Thx
Link Posted: 10/13/2020 1:05:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/13/2020 4:03:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2020 4:06:47 PM EDT by Stinkfoot09]
I run a 2.26" unity riser and an exps3-0 bnvd's , found passive aiming super easy.  Just finished a daytime class, damn good class however the instructors were dismissing these high mounts citing they make a fundamental position extremely difficult (prone) which is true and they said that all the night vision stuff they do is with lasers not passive and that passive aiming is mostly for ambush/assault units and if you do that shit you'll be f'd legally anyway so high mounts are not good and they're just marketing.  These guys were quite accomplished militarty professionals and I trust their opinion just dont know if I'm willing to forgo passive aiming.  Also holds are way easier without the high mounts.  Prone is a real bitch at 2.26"  currently looking for positional things I can do to remedy it.
Link Posted: 10/13/2020 4:14:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2020 4:16:43 PM EDT by jwramp]
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Originally Posted By Stinkfoot09:
I run a 2.26" unity riser and an exps3-0 bnvd's , found passive aiming super easy.  Just finished a daytime class, damn good class however the instructors were dismissing these high mounts citing they make a fundamental position extremely difficult (prone) which is true and they said that all the night vision stuff they do is with lasers not passive and that passive aiming is mostly for ambush/assault units and if you do that shit you'll be f'd legally anyway so high mounts are not good and they're just marketing.  These guys were quite accomplished militarty professionals and I trust their opinion just dont know if I'm willing to forgo passive aiming.  Also holds are way easier without the high mounts.  Prone is a real bitch at 2.26"  currently looking for positional things I can do to remedy it.
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So the argument is if you shoot someone with an invisible laser you're good, but if you do with an RDS you're f'ed? Hmmm.

Also if you can't figure out 'holds' with a high mount, you probly can't figure them out with a 'low' mount... there's only slightly different dimensions.
Link Posted: 10/13/2020 4:36:20 PM EDT
As others have said, opinions vary.  I think the main concern is to decide whether classic positional shooting, or dynamic movement shooting is the order of the day.  If you say both then yeah you might be able to squeek by with 1.93.  Just be aware it may not optimal for either style.  

I'd get the -14 set up, and your LAM of choice, and get that dialed in with your RDS and BUIS's.  Once you're set up there, then maybe explore some with passive set up.  But as you have seen, the community is divided about it.  You just about need a dedicated rifle with something over 1.93 to make it work with a -14, IMHO.  BNVD's will work a lot easier with this technique, becasue they're shorter and line up easier behind the RDS.  With a -14 you may need something a little taller to actually be able to use the technique.  I guess it depends on you and your facial features.  I have a hard time; YMMV.

You know after training with NV, the lower cheek weld, or chin weld, has become much more natural to me.  It now feels funny to scrunch my face all the way down into classic iron sight height.  So yeah unless I'm proned out, that's what I use for RDS and -14/laser aiming.  So I suppose I'm gonna come out as on the higher mount/passive aiming side.  I like the higher mount just for daylight RDS work; it's just that you're pretty much fucked for proning out.  

So yeah maybe a shorter bbl and higher mount for CQB, and a longer bbl and lower mount for general field work.        

Link Posted: 10/13/2020 6:49:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/13/2020 7:53:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2020 7:55:32 PM EDT by metalsaber]
So here is my conundrum.  I'm waiting on my NVG that won't probably be here till Jan.  My current optic is a Aimpoint ML3 in a lower 1/3 mount.  
Its good for all around day shooting from standing, awkward shooting and prone.  However I know its NOT going to be usable with passing shooting with a PVS14.

In a scenario that you can ONLY have 1 gun on you at a time and would be used in a SHTF scenario:
1.) Would you leave the gun alone (lower 1/3 mount) and just rely on night shooting with lasers?
2.) Swap to 1.93" height mount, get decent/ok passive shooting capabilities and suffer a little on prone shooting
3.) Swap to a 2.2x/2.3x" height mount, get great passive shooting capabilities but might as well forget about prone shooting (looking at the ADM NVG height mount which is 2.33")

Which do you value more?  Ability to shoot while prone/awkward shooting positions or ability to shoot while under NVG?

Link Posted: 10/13/2020 8:24:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2020 8:27:01 PM EDT by jwramp]
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Originally Posted By metalsaber:
In a scenario that you can ONLY have 1 gun on you at a time and would be used in a SHTF scenario:
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4.) Put a Razor 1-10 with a 12 o'clock RDS on it.

To expand just a bit - having a taller RDS mount is actually easier for me in 'odd' shooting positions, it only gets a bit sore if you're prone and shooting across a very flat or upward surface. From a higher position looking down it's really not bad and not an issue at all if you're doing tripod shooting. In both of those situations I'd want more magnification though and would be happy with lower scope rings and a tall RDS on top of it.
Link Posted: 10/13/2020 9:35:00 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By metalsaber:
So here is my conundrum.  I'm waiting on my NVG that won't probably be here till Jan.  My current optic is a Aimpoint ML3 in a lower 1/3 mount.  
Its good for all around day shooting from standing, awkward shooting and prone.  However I know its NOT going to be usable with passing shooting with a PVS14.

In a scenario that you can ONLY have 1 gun on you at a time and would be used in a SHTF scenario:
1.) Would you leave the gun alone (lower 1/3 mount) and just rely on night shooting with lasers?
2.) Swap to 1.93" height mount, get decent/ok passive shooting capabilities and suffer a little on prone shooting
3.) Swap to a 2.2x/2.3x" height mount, get great passive shooting capabilities but might as well forget about prone shooting (looking at the ADM NVG height mount which is 2.33")

Which do you value more?  Ability to shoot while prone/awkward shooting positions or ability to shoot while under NVG?

View Quote

IMHO your go to should be a 24/7 rig. If you right eye dominant,  place your NOD over that eye and use a Jarm the tightening knob may get in the way of shooting passively. With a 1.93 you will not have that problem and you can still sight through your RDS in the daytime. There's a lot if different ways /reasons to set up your rig, for me I mainly use my LAM for aiming and RDS set to visible incase the lights suddenly turn on. For a secondary I mainly use my RMR to shoit with, but have a LAM with white light for back up
Link Posted: 10/13/2020 10:51:21 PM EDT
I really like my ~2.2" setup using a Holosun HS503GU (I also have one set up w/ a 503G ACSS) in a see-through lower 1/3 cowitness mount on a LT-101 QD riser.  The circle dot reticle of the RDS allows for easy and consistent compensation for height over bore at close distance.  The see-through lower 1/3 mount also allows you to use standard height BUIS easily with a more natural cheek weld.  The LT-101 also allows easy mounting of a magnifier as long as you don't mount the RDS too far to the rear.  I've got this setup on a 12" 5.56 as well as a matching 22 LR and practice with it at least once every two weeks, it works extremely well.  All that being said, I still prefer a good IR laser
Link Posted: 10/14/2020 7:46:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2020 8:02:23 AM EDT by metalsaber]
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Originally Posted By jwramp:

4.) Put a Razor 1-10 with a 12 o'clock RDS on it.

To expand just a bit - having a taller RDS mount is actually easier for me in 'odd' shooting positions, it only gets a bit sore if you're prone and shooting across a very flat or upward surface. From a higher position looking down it's really not bad and not an issue at all if you're doing tripod shooting. In both of those situations I'd want more magnification though and would be happy with lower scope rings and a tall RDS on top of it.
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Originally Posted By jwramp:
Originally Posted By metalsaber:
In a scenario that you can ONLY have 1 gun on you at a time and would be used in a SHTF scenario:

4.) Put a Razor 1-10 with a 12 o'clock RDS on it.

To expand just a bit - having a taller RDS mount is actually easier for me in 'odd' shooting positions, it only gets a bit sore if you're prone and shooting across a very flat or upward surface. From a higher position looking down it's really not bad and not an issue at all if you're doing tripod shooting. In both of those situations I'd want more magnification though and would be happy with lower scope rings and a tall RDS on top of it.
Interesting idea.  I have a 1-6 razor that was on another gun.  I had it in a LT mount, so I ordered their LT742 half ring adaptor for RMR.  I'll give that a shot.

Anyone know how the Holosun 407/507 handle on the AR15?  I know they are pistol dots, just wondering how they handle a rifle cartridge.
Link Posted: 10/14/2020 9:56:59 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By metalsaber:
Interesting idea.  I have a 1-6 razor that was on another gun.  I had it in a LT mount, so I ordered their LT742 half ring adaptor for RMR.  I'll give that a shot.

Anyone know how the Holosun 407/507 handle on the AR15?  I know they are pistol dots, just wondering how they handle a rifle cartridge.
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Tons of guys running them offset, if they'll handle being on a slide they can handle an 556 AR.

I've got a 508 T running offset with my 1-10 Razor.
Link Posted: 10/14/2020 10:10:43 AM EDT
I dont know why everyone thinks prone is impossible with taller mounts.

I can shoot from prone with any of my tall mounts

From 1.93 to 2.33.

Sure its not as comfortable but rarely am i proning out for hours stacking dimes with my short barreled, red dot sighted, night guns.

Even my 1.5 height long range guns make my neck hurt after about 15 minutes anyways.
Link Posted: 10/14/2020 10:39:07 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By metalsaber:

Anyone know how the Holosun 407/507 handle on the AR15?  I know they are pistol dots, just wondering how they handle a rifle cartridge.
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I would think a recoiling, 9mm Slide, imparts way more force, than an AR, where just the BCG is moving. My 407s are fine on .223/5.56 and .300BO.
Link Posted: 10/14/2020 11:49:11 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Blackhalo:


Tons of guys running them offset, if they'll handle being on a slide they can handle an 556 AR.

I've got a 508 T running offset with my 1-10 Razor.
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Originally Posted By Blackhalo:
Originally Posted By metalsaber:
Interesting idea.  I have a 1-6 razor that was on another gun.  I had it in a LT mount, so I ordered their LT742 half ring adaptor for RMR.  I'll give that a shot.

Anyone know how the Holosun 407/507 handle on the AR15?  I know they are pistol dots, just wondering how they handle a rifle cartridge.


Tons of guys running them offset, if they'll handle being on a slide they can handle an 556 AR.

I've got a 508 T running offset with my 1-10 Razor.
Good to know.
Link Posted: 10/15/2020 4:09:18 PM EDT
Another very good thread.

When you factor in enemy capabilities, such as the possibility/likelihood of coming up against someone with NV, or at least the limited ability to detect active IR, this should also be factored into the sight height decision.  This is probably one thing that is rapidly changing for a lot of folks.  Whether they want to accept that, or not.  I think you will hear this argument for a long time.  Look at some very famous instructors who insisted on staying with iron sights, way after red dots were proven to be vastly superior.  

A 12 o' clock or even off-set mini RDS on a LPVO is a great solution.  That would be your single rifle solution as well.  But with a dedicated 1x RDS, like the EOTech, the decision has to be made.
Link Posted: 10/15/2020 5:02:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2020 5:03:44 PM EDT by mickdonaldson]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By metalsaber:
For those running monoculars are you just running the tube over your dominant shooting eye? Seems like most recommend over your non dominant eye but then you can't use the optic.  Are they just relying on lasers?
View Quote


If you have any desire to hit the target further away than your bedroom door, passively - put it over your dominant eye. One of the TNVC guys mentioned this a while back, but I wanted to test it because I was born in Missouri. I can test during the day because I use Aurora's and have a PERST-3 Green at about 12mW. I did this yesterday. Holy hell is Bindon worthless outside CQB. I actually started at 50 yards (yeah, LOL, now!) and didn't even need to fire a round - with the Obj Lens Cover closed, and the illuminated reticle appearing in the non-dom eye's view on center mass, I hit the Laser - it was ~3 feet off the right edge of a life-size silhouette. I figured, it's gotta work at 25.....nope, still about 6 to 12 inches completely off the target. Stopped right there, not worth the time. BA...C-U-Later
Link Posted: 10/18/2020 8:36:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2020 8:37:41 PM EDT by dj1975232]
I messed around with 1.93" and ended up with a a FAST mount for my main "Night" rifle but ended up really liking it for do all tasks.  The only place it doesn't shine is prolonged prone shooting.  I'm slowly switching over my red dot ARs to similar heights.

ETA:  I use a PVS14 over my dominant eye which is my right.
Link Posted: 10/18/2020 9:25:49 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By mickdonaldson:


If you have any desire to hit the target further away than your bedroom door, passively - put it over your dominant eye. One of the TNVC guys mentioned this a while back, but I wanted to test it because I was born in Missouri. I can test during the day because I use Aurora's and have a PERST-3 Green at about 12mW. I did this yesterday. Holy hell is Bindon worthless outside CQB. I actually started at 50 yards (yeah, LOL, now!) and didn't even need to fire a round - with the Obj Lens Cover closed, and the illuminated reticle appearing in the non-dom eye's view on center mass, I hit the Laser - it was ~3 feet off the right edge of a life-size silhouette. I figured, it's gotta work at 25.....nope, still about 6 to 12 inches completely off the target. Stopped right there, not worth the time. BA...C-U-Later
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good to hear
Link Posted: 10/18/2020 9:33:31 PM EDT
This topic has sparked my interest....
Link Posted: 10/20/2020 9:08:42 AM EDT
I think I’m going to put my reptilia 1.93 in the EE and commit to 2.26
Link Posted: 10/20/2020 9:56:56 AM EDT
I need to get a higher mount for my MRO and move it to my dedicated NV gun which currently has a UH1.
Link Posted: 10/20/2020 10:52:44 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By laxman09:
I need to get a higher mount for my MRO and move it to my dedicated NV gun which currently has a UH1.
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Heh. I just backorderd a UH-1 G2 and unity riser to replace an MRO for a NV gun. Not sure what I'll like better, but I'll find a home for either optic regardless.
Link Posted: 10/20/2020 11:19:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2020 11:20:48 AM EDT by SIASL]
What’s a high mount for an RMR/SRO? I’m waiting on a lower third cowitness Scalarworks but maybe it works or maybe it doesn’t...any suggestions?
Link Posted: 10/20/2020 11:40:39 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Blackhalo:


Heh. I just backorderd a UH-1 G2 and unity riser to replace an MRO for a NV gun. Not sure what I'll like better, but I'll find a home for either optic regardless.
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When I bought my UHQ I thought "Ill never get a NVD."

Here I am
Link Posted: 10/20/2020 12:27:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By laxman09:


When I bought my UHQ I thought "Ill never get a NVD."

Here I am
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Haha, I know the feeling. Now I'm having to switch up setups I thought I was good with
Link Posted: 10/20/2020 12:35:20 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By SIASL:
What’s a high mount for an RMR/SRO? I’m waiting on a lower third cowitness Scalarworks but maybe it works or maybe it doesn’t...any suggestions?
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You can always grab a $9 UTG .5" riser to play around with and see how you like it, that will put you around 2.2". I've got my MRO with a 1/3 Scalarworks sitting on one and I have no issues with running it until I switch out to a dedicated higher mount. I'll honestly probably just leave my QD 1/3 mounts and run the cheapo riser, only going to replace the non-qd mounts with dedicated NV mounts.

It's slim and TQ'd down to 35-40 in lbs just fine. It's not going anywhere.

UTG Riser



Link Posted: 10/20/2020 12:57:49 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Blackhalo:


You can always grab a $9 UTG .5" riser to play around with and see how you like it, that will put you around 2.2". I've got my MRO with a 1/3 Scalarworks sitting on one and I have no issues with running it until I switch out to a dedicated higher mount. I'll honestly probably just leave my QD 1/3 mounts and run the cheapo riser, only going to replace the non-qd mounts with dedicated NV mounts.

It's slim and TQ'd down to 35-40 in lbs just fine. It's not going anywhere.

UTG Riser



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Thanks. I may have to give that a shot
Link Posted: 10/20/2020 8:08:12 PM EDT
I use the unity tactical risers on my carbine setup for night vision.  It definitely helps me with passive aiming. Solid product, and their customer service is top notch.
Link Posted: 10/20/2020 8:44:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2020 8:44:55 PM EDT by JohnDough]
I am on the fence with passive aiming, myself. If I do set my weapon up for it, my choice is the KAC RB1 mount with a Comp M5 or T2, and a G33 behind it.
Currently, I am planning to simply rely on a MAWL and keeping my 1.70" mounted NX8.
This is a photo of the setup described, found online.
Link Posted: 10/21/2020 12:56:37 PM EDT
Got my Larue offset mount half installed:




Link Posted: 10/24/2020 4:27:56 PM EDT
Is there a riser that would work with my 553/SU-231?
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