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Posted: 12/23/2020 9:47:53 PM EDT
[#1]
The only acceptable things for defense are slugs or Buckshot.
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Posted: 12/23/2020 11:05:46 PM EDT
[#2]
#4 is about the smallest shot I'd use for defense. Search YouTube for cut shot shells
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Posted: 12/24/2020 12:05:44 AM EDT
[#3]
#4 buckshot is considered the smallest shot size to use for self defense.
#1, 00 and 000 are considered optimal. If you have no choice use turkey loads. Heavier than lead type loads would be helpful. |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 12:16:07 AM EDT
[#4]
Good buckshot was about $1 a round before the panic.
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Posted: 12/24/2020 12:19:45 AM EDT
[#5]
AIM has some 10 round boxes for just under 10 bucks right now.
I've also found some 15 round boxes of Federal 00 Buck and Slugs at Wally Marts in my AO for just under 13 bucks each. YMMV. |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 12:30:34 AM EDT
[#6]
No birdshot is acceptable. Slugs or buck. If you are new to shotguns don't get bird and buckshot confused as there is some overlap in the numbers.
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Posted: 12/24/2020 1:19:52 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good buckshot was about $1 a round before the panic. Same thing I was thinking. A box of 5 for hunting has been $3 or more for many years. |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 2:39:45 AM EDT
[#8]
Since you are new to shotguns don't mess with cut shot shells. I always thought it was dangerous playing with ammo. Anyways slugs only give you one projectile to shoot.
Stay with buck shot and larger shot sizes to use for self defense. Even 2 3/4" shells and slugs especially will give you a quite a recoil if haven't shot shotguns very much. From 1 to 10 yards any birdshot will do the trick guaranteed. Nobody wants to stand in front of a shotgun. Of course shooting farther birdshot spreads and the power dissipates quickly. If you are farther than 25 yards use a rifle. I'm talking self defense not a mob of 300 coming at you. Just my thoughts. If it sounds crazy it probably is. |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 12:04:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Practice with the birdshot. Keep the buck for HD. It'll shoot close enough to not worry about it. When u find more buckshot then fire some to see how it patterns. Until then, don't waste it.
Keep a few empty hulls. Fill them with rice or cornmeal. Fold the crimp closed and hot glue it. If you can't fold the crimp, cut a circle out of cardboard. Glue it in place. Cut the crimp off flush with the shell. Use those dummy shells for loading drills |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 3:25:42 PM EDT
[#10]
I was gonna buy some dummy shells, but that’s a good idea.
So according to my research it seems that #2 shot has bigger pellets than #4 shot. That would make it better for a defense round, correct? I know it’s not a substitute for buck shot, but it’ll be easier to find in stores. |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 4:08:17 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: I was gonna buy some dummy shells, but that’s a good idea. So according to my research it seems that #2 shot has bigger pellets than #4 shot. That would make it better for a defense round, correct? I know it’s not a substitute for buck shot, but it’ll be easier to find in stores. Neither is effective as a defensive load. |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 4:18:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was gonna buy some dummy shells, but that’s a good idea. So according to my research it seems that #2 shot has bigger pellets than #4 shot. That would make it better for a defense round, correct? I know it’s not a substitute for buck shot, but it’ll be easier to find in stores. The larger the number, the smaller the pellet. #2 is bigger than #4. #1 is bigger than #2. #2 is better than #4 but I consider #1 buckshot to be the minimum. Pic is of buckshot -  For reference - 9x19mm parabellum (9mm luger) bullet diameter is 0.355", 115gr around 1200fps. (basically anywhere from double to sextuple the weight of 1 pellet) .22lr - bullet diameter at 0.223", 30-40gr, at around 1000fps. (#2 buckshot or #4 buckshot is essentially a half a mag to 3/4 of a mag full of .22lr in either weight or diameter in 1 shell fired) 00 buckshot is anywhere from 1100fps (low recoil) to 1400fps (high velocity). |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 4:26:09 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The larger the number, the smaller the pellet. #2 is bigger than #4. #1 is bigger than #2. #2 is better than #4 but I consider #1 to be the minimum. https://loungecdn.luckygunner.com/lounge/media/buckshot-sizes.jpg For reference - 9x19mm parabellum (9mm luger) bullet diameter is 0.355", 115gr around 1200fps. (basically anywhere from double to sextuple the weight of 1 pellet) 00 buckshot is anywhere from 1100fps (low recoil) to 1400fps (high velocity). This was very helpful. Thanks! |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 4:40:42 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The larger the number, the smaller the pellet. #2 is bigger than #4. #1 is bigger than #2. #2 is better than #4 but I consider #1 to be the minimum. https://loungecdn.luckygunner.com/lounge/media/buckshot-sizes.jpg For reference - 9x19mm parabellum (9mm luger) bullet diameter is 0.355", 115gr around 1200fps. (basically anywhere from double to sextuple the weight of 1 pellet) .22lr - bullet diameter at 0.223", 30-40gr, at around 1000fps. 00 buckshot is anywhere from 1100fps (low recoil) to 1400fps (high velocity). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I was gonna buy some dummy shells, but that’s a good idea. So according to my research it seems that #2 shot has bigger pellets than #4 shot. That would make it better for a defense round, correct? I know it’s not a substitute for buck shot, but it’ll be easier to find in stores. The larger the number, the smaller the pellet. #2 is bigger than #4. #1 is bigger than #2. #2 is better than #4 but I consider #1 to be the minimum. https://loungecdn.luckygunner.com/lounge/media/buckshot-sizes.jpg For reference - 9x19mm parabellum (9mm luger) bullet diameter is 0.355", 115gr around 1200fps. (basically anywhere from double to sextuple the weight of 1 pellet) .22lr - bullet diameter at 0.223", 30-40gr, at around 1000fps. 00 buckshot is anywhere from 1100fps (low recoil) to 1400fps (high velocity). Just so we are on the same page OP is talking about #2 and #4 birdshot not buckshot. #2 Birdshot is half the size of #1 Buckshot which is considered the minimum size by many.  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 4:46:21 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just so we are on the same page OP is talking about #2 and #4 birdshot not buckshot. #2 Birdshot is half the size of #1 Buckshot which is considered the minimum size by many. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/129950/Shotgun_shot_size_chart_jpg-1746351.JPG Didn't realize he meant #2 or #4 birdshot. In any case edited my post to mention it's based off buckshot sizing. Bird shot is for birds. |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 6:38:02 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just so we are on the same page OP is talking about #2 and #4 birdshot not buckshot. #2 Birdshot is half the size of #1 Buckshot which is considered the minimum size by many. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/129950/Shotgun_shot_size_chart_jpg-1746351.JPG Aha! Ever more informative! Many thanks! |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 6:47:01 PM EDT
[#17]
Went to "shot" class today.
Thanks for the info guys! |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 7:03:37 PM EDT
[#18]
Good thing to remember is BB which most of us grew up shooting and is .17 caliber. 00 is basically twice that diameter which is substantial.
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Posted: 12/24/2020 10:36:33 PM EDT
[#19]
Minimum buckshot size depends heavily on situation.
If wall penetration is a concern, many recommend #4 buck as a shot size that will still be very effective at close range (inside the home) without blasting through sheetrock walls and killing the next door neighbor in an apartment complex. Sometimes tradeoffs have to be made in these situations. A rifle in that situation would certainly be worse than a shotgun for overpenetrating walls. 00 buck is a good longer range shotgun load as the larger pellets will have a better maximum effective range. My old house wasn't laid out well. If I had to confront a front door intruder from my room, my daughter's room was the backdrop with her bed positioned on the other side of 2 layers sheetrock and a closet door. #4 buck was my ONLY option for defense. And with an approximate range of 12 yds I had zero concerns of it being effective. At 24 pellets per shot weighing 21 gr each, they were going to inflict some serious damage even if they didn't penetrate 100% of the perp. That's like launching 24 lightweight 22 lr bullets for every trigger pull. |
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Posted: 12/25/2020 9:57:09 AM EDT
[#20]
No smaller than #4 BUCK for defense, hogs, deer.
BB to BUCK sizes for coyote, usually T to #3 BUCK. 7½ or 8 BIRD for doves, clays, practice. 4, 5, and/or 6 BIRD for turkey. 4 or 5 BIRD for squirrel/rabbit, nod to 4 on squirrel and 5 on rabbit, 6 can work. The above is all lead shot. Waterfowl requires steel, or other non-lead shot like W (tungsten) or Bi (bismuth). The latter are very expensive. I don't waterfowl so no comment, but they're between #4 W/Bi, and T steel. BIRD sizes. Sabot slugs go in RIFLED barrels, rifled slugs go in SMOOTH barrels. |
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Posted: 12/25/2020 3:04:16 PM EDT
[#21]
Use slug for home defense.
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Posted: 12/27/2020 4:08:53 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AIM has some 10 round boxes for just under 10 bucks right now. I've also found some 15 round boxes of Federal 00 Buck and Slugs at Wally Marts in my AO for just under 13 bucks each. YMMV. Sterling? I bought some of that about a month ago. Works as intended. |
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Posted: 12/27/2020 12:46:40 PM EDT
[#23]
If this is you only option I would buy the biggest shot size available. I would even go for a heavier than lead type shot.
IF you can get slugs or buckshot I would get that over anything. Even if a buck or more a round. Funny I can get 7.62 and 223/556 here but no buckshot or slugs at asny price once it ran out. On a side note I once saw a guy shot in the ass at about 20 feet with an old lead #4 duck load. It was her late husbands long barrel duck gun. Guy broke in to make the promise to kill them on his release from jail. She knew where to step on the hardwood floors so they didnt creak. He didint. She said she knew he would kill her if he got the chance. She couldnt bring herself to shoot him in the back or head. So she lowered it 18 inches and let fly. I didnt kill him. I bet he wished it did. Meat from bone was a pretty good descrition. He went back to prison. It was no longer pound me in the ass prison. He didnt have one. |
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Posted: 12/27/2020 8:49:25 PM EDT
[#24]
I picked up the boxes of buckshot suggested from AIM surplus, and some #4 bird shot just to have something on hand. I’m sure I should be able to get some target loads cheap enough just to put the gun through its paces. Thanks again for the help.
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Posted: 12/27/2020 9:39:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Good call. I've got some #1 buck for 20ga, since the shell is smaller it's not as effective as 00 buck in 12 ga, but it's better than bird shot.
Just found my stash of 00 buck I bought like ten years ago S&B 25 round boxes. 
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Posted: 12/29/2020 8:43:56 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: I picked up the boxes of buckshot suggested from AIM surplus, and some #4 bird shot just to have something on hand. I’m sure I should be able to get some target loads cheap enough just to put the gun through its paces. Thanks again for the help. Walmart (hate me) is still the best place for cheap birdshot. Rural king is the other, but I don't think you have them in MD. Quoted: Good call. I've got some #1 buck for 20ga, since the shell is smaller it's not as effective as 00 buck in 12 ga, but it's better than bird shot. Just found my stash of 00 buck I bought like ten years ago S&B 25 round boxes. Check out the box of truth on #1 buck. A very good argument is presented. I do not feel under-gunned with a load of #1s, in 20 or 12. Honestly, I'm happy to load #4B in 12ga. The 25 or 27p loads are flinging a LOT of lead. Amazing pattern density compared to the larger sizes. At closer ranges, I can see it making a much more vicious wound, and still penetrate enough. They'd also be great to have for longer range varmints for that nice dense pattern and more than adequate penetration on coyote. Where you might miss Wiley with a 9p 00 load, having 3x the pellets flying triples your hit chance with a still adequate projectile. Watch those S&B loads. I like them for being cheap and hot loaded (recoil therapy and flinch proofing), but they tend to pattern like ass. Plenty adequate for house distance, or thick-brush deer driving, but not really anything past 20 yards, sometimes 15. |
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Posted: 1/18/2021 10:52:56 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: #4 is about the smallest shot I'd use for defense. Search YouTube for cut shot shells If I couldn’t find slugs or buck I would use the largest lead shot I could find. |
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